Metagame Force of the Fallen

[TheMonkePig]

The problem with that kind of counterplay, beyond being kinda centralizing, is that it is quite easy to have counterplay to the counterplay in this format, boosting moves and coverage aren't the only thing you can pass around, any good HO should be able to fit Taunt or Encore somewhere to easily beat walls, HO leads like Grimmsnarl already have Taunt on their regular sets anyway.

Valid, I guess I was just hoping the strat would last.

 

[Codename C.A.T]

Some old reliable HO with special sauce in Healing Wish and recovery move spam. Double recovery moves effectively gives everyone 16 PP to work with, giving a massive advantage for Volcarona and Great Tusk. Additionally, with Shell Smash Ceaseless Edge Samurott-H, you can break through most things not named Kingambit. To patch that up, Healing Wish can be used to safely bring any single mon back to perfect condition instantly, alongside giving a free switch and a moveslot. You could also try swapping Samu-H for Kingambit, but that wouldn't work as well due to lacking Ceaseless Edge.

 

[prunyy]

Just reporting a little bug:

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9forceofthefallen-1896415799

In this game, my landorus-therian with Swords Dance in its fourth moveslot uses trick room from Hatterene on turn 2 followed by its own EQ on turn 3, then dies to scizor's bullet punch on turn 4. The rest of my team does not have Swords Dance after lando dies. Maybe this bug is caused by a pokemon using an inherited move as its first move out?

Weird things are happening when both Pokemon on the field die at one. This happens with moves like Explosion as well. This will hopefully be addressed soon. Thanks for reporting!

 

[ausma]

i have seen nothing but shell smash and it is an extremely noxious strategy that basically forces prio. if you have one mon that doesn't match up well against ur opponent you'll have another that can just click shell smash in a good position and potentially just win or continuously overwhelm checks. bluhgh

 

[prunyy]

Banslate 1:
Shell Smash, Quiver Dance, Belly Drum, Population Bomb are restricted!
Lilligant-Hisui, Rage Fist, and Terastallization are banned!
Annihilape is free!​

	prunyy	DosDogs	Dark Koopatrol	KaenSoul	Result
Shell Smash	Restrict	Restrict	Restrict	Restrict	Restrict
Quiver Dance	Restrict	Restrict	Restrict	Restrict	Restrict
Belly Drum	Restrict	Restrict	Restrict	Restrict	Restrict
Population Bomb	Restrict	Restrict	Restrict	Restrict	Restrict
Lilligant-Hisui	Ban	Ban	Abstain	Ban	Ban
Rage Fist (and free Annihilape)	Ban	Ban	Ban	Ban	Ban
Terastallization	Ban	Ban	Do Not Ban	Ban	Ban

Most of these bans are explained in KaenSoul's post so I won't repeat them here.

We got unanimous agreement to ban Rage Fist altogether and free Annihilape instead of restricting Rage Fist.

Tagging Kris to implement and address the issues with Self-KO moves and Rocky Helmet interactions not giving moves to Pokemon that are alive. Thanks!

 

[Clefable]

I appreciate the first ban slate coming so quickly, this will take care of a lot of the initially broken shit.

That being said…can I request some clarification on why a few things are banned or restricted?

1) Transform doesn’t seem very strong to me, and it can be made part of a legitimate strategy with Imprison + Transform. Was this restricted for balance reasons or coding reasons?

2) Victory Dance is strictly better than Dragon Dance, but it comes with the opportunity cost of using Lilligant-H over one of the OU dragons, which strikes me as an unfavorable tradeoff. I was surprised to see a near unanimous ban on Lilligant, so I would love to hear an expanded reasoning on that or see some replays, especially since I disagree that Flower Trick Lilligant is significantly more broken than anything else running around (maybe a fair comparison would be Dragon Darts Roaring Moon).

3) Magearna seems like it would be balanced in a fast-paced metagame, and it comes with a really unique movepool with Shift Gear, Fleur Cannon, etc. I would personally love to see it unbanned in a post-Quiver Dance metagame. With Urshifu free there is some precedent for Ubers in the tier, so I’d be happy to see Mag considered

I think post-bans is a great time to keep an eye out for potential unbans and find the right power level for the tier

 

[TheGreyFencer]

so I have no idea what the optimal line here is, but this feels a LOT like old baton pass teams IMO.
Version 1: Corviknight Sweeper
Version 2: Torkoal sweeper

should be pretty obvious, hit people with massive power trips and body presses.

there were a few other things i thought of building this though and would love to know if i missed something:

The Support
Your other pokemon need to give it access to certain types of utility.

1. Imprison+Haze: This is, I think, pretty important because without it you basically position yourself to just lose to haze since a haze pokemon and switch stalling probably outlasts you...but it'd take a while...
2. Damage: Body Press, Power Trip, and Stored power all can deal significant damage without much investment provided you have boosts. And together they have perfect coverage. Power trip alone can do the job but adding extra options help ensure the sweep. the other two both have types that they cannot hit and should not be used alone, or without trip as there are pokemon that have immunity to psychic and fighting, however rare they might be.
3. Boosts: bare minimum, you could probably live with def and spdef boosts, as those allow all of your damage moves to hit reasonably hard. speed is your next most important stat since it probably helps going first and also contribute to damage. Attack and Special attack aren't bad to have assuming you have the relevant moves in your arsenal, but not necessary. shift gear fills the last role very well
4. Rocks/Spikes: These allow you to skip and sash shenanigans like counter, but probably not necessary.
5. Screens: someone to set up screens and give the sweeper an easier setup could potentially be useful.

The Sweeper

So the sweeper wants a couple things

1. Steel Typing (or tera) to prevent clear smog and toxic. fire type helps to prevent burns as well.
2. Access to some of the needed support
3. A way to prevent being crit, currently only found on battle and shell armor
4. A way to cancel-out their stats without canceling yours: unaware, clear smog, whirlwind/roar.
5. Good enough stats

Issues: Salt Cure+Dire claw is nearly impossibly to deal with together once the last pokemon comes out.

 

[Cuddly]

Some ideas that seem like heat that I’m throwing out there
Suicide move+support (ie Reflect/Light Screen, Hazards, etc)+highly valuable move.
As an example;

Jumpluff @ Light Clay
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Memento
- Light Screen
- Reflect
- Cotton Guard

Zamazenta @ Chesto Berry
Ability: Dauntless Shield
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Substitute
- Crunch
- Body Press
- Rest
With this combo, you give Zamazenta Cotton Guard, and ideally with Screens and Memento causing all damage to be 1/4th its power for at least 1 turn. More than enough to let you set up Cotton Guard once and be at +4. Bulk Up Scream Tail (with Perish Song) is also a good alternative since it’ll boost Crunch too.
When I have the time, I’ll make a list of Pokemon with self-KOing effects and a move you would want to pass.

 

[Tøp Tier]

Am I missing something or are the move bans and restrictions just not implemented on ladder?

 

[DosDogs]

Am I missing something or are the move bans and restrictions just not implemented on ladder?

It takes time for things to get coded into PS!, just wait a few days and they will be implemented.

 

[LarryBetraitor]

I made a contrary team for fun. How is it?
FOTF Contrary (pokepast.es)

 

[EnesBatur]

I could be wrong, but I want to call attention to a Pokémon I think will be a good wincon as long as Stored Power exists:

Cresselia (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Psychic
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonlight
- Calm Mind
- Moonblast / Ice Beam / Substitute
- Stored Power

Stored Power has the potential to break through any non-Dark type Pokémon, including the Unaware users. I use the above EV spread on a No Retreat team to make the most of the only Speed boost that can be attained, but Defense and Special Defense are good to invest in over Speed depending on the team. There is no need to invest in Special Attack as long as you can boost incredibly potently. I would see this mon working well with No Retreat, Iron Defense, Substitute, etc (used to be a great user of Quiver Dance but that's gone now), along with coverage moves to deal with Pokémon like Kingambit. Cresselia is tanky, and its resilience to hazards make it a decent endgame wincon from what I've used of it.

Note that while passing Stored Power can be extremely helpful for teammates, passing Moonlight could be done instead on teams that don't need Stored Power for the other mons.

 

[DosDogs]

Encore is really good rn, so I want show off a utility set I've been using that I really like (that passes encore)

Donphan @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Sturdy
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Encore

It's pretty simple, almost guaranteed hazard remover (ghosts block spin), can run either rocks or knock off, it has encore so it can pass it (or use it itself) to mess up tanks or unsuspecting set up sweepers. Sturdy is super useful in either removing hazards or putting a stop to a set-up sweeper.

I'm using this on a shift gear team, but its useful outside of that, and probably better on some other teams

 

[Turtlek]

Hi, I'd like a hand on this team based on Strength Sap, which is imo a very potent move.

Brambleghast is a suboptimal lead, but it meshes hazard support, hazard removal AND strength sap. Tera Type is placeholder, I usually run Ghost.

Roaring Moon gives Taunt, but also has a very high SpDef, it benefits a lot from Strength Sap due to this. It's able to put on a lot of work against balance especially.

Enamorus was another no-brainer; very scary set if you can't bruteforce it, Strength Sap again is clicked a lot. It gives Earth Power, useful to both Volc and Cress.

Volcarona has probably a bad spread, maybe a Bold one? Similar vibes to its OU bulky sets, and it may have Earth Power now. Morning Sun could debatedly be removed but I like it not to fold to Specs users.

Cresselia is a late game wincon, just saw it lacked 4 evs but not gonna do another pokepaste. While it's mono-attack, one of Volc or Enam should have been KOed by the time it's sent out. Doesn't give anything special, ig Lunar Blessing is nice for burns. I'm using Lunar Blessing because I've been in some situations where Roaring Moon couldn't be sent to death without ruining my sweep

Slither is honestly the weakest point of my team. I needed some sort of Revenge Killing, and everything folds to FI + Roaring Moon's FI. Open to any replacement.



I'd also like to advocate for a Contrary ban, I find Lurantis to be very oppresive without specific counterplay.
EDIT: sets I'm talking about are Sub/Leaf Storm/Synthesis/Giga Drain/Overheat/CloseCombat/Superpower/Stored Power

 

[All Lice]

I feel like once all the all the aggravating multi-boosting moves get dealt with Garganacl is a very strong build around. The mon itself is behemoth with the right tera but passing Salt Cure, especially on fast mons, is crazy for forcing progress on steels that might otherwise serve to wall you and force the opponent to reposition awkwardly as to not bite it to Cure.



Here's a pretty standard offense team I've been using that seeks to leverage the offensive core of Dire Claw, Cure, and DD to clean teams up. The idea is that Cure beats Steels that can take Dire Claw, Dire Claw beats the fairies that come in on the Dragons, and Dragon Dance enables Chomp (and sometimes Tusk) to clean up when all the pieces come together. Generally I lead Sneasler if there's no/one steel and lead pult otherwise. I've seen pretty decent success with the team (as of writing this post I'm at #38 on the ladder) and the only things that are up in the air are Chomp and Dirge's passed moves (EQ and Slack Off are in contention respectively)



Unrelated to the rest of the post but I also think Dondozo with reliable recovery is pretty crazy too. The mon is balanced around rest being it's most reliable healing option so passing recover let's it absorb hits like no tomorrow and Unaware let's it deny set up sweepers that therwise would try to overpower it. It's weak to status however and we lack any good offensive recover passers without Pao in the tier and Zam in the game.

 

[Cuddly]

Roaring Moon @ Covert Cloak
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Roost
- Taunt
- Iron Head
- Jaw Lock

Falinks @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Battle Armor
Level: 1
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 76 Spe
Hasty Nature
IVs: 0 HP / 0 Def / 0 SpD
- Take Down
- Close Combat
- Poison Jab
- No Retreat

Heat combo right here.
The idea is to abuse the lesser known mechanic in No Retreat which allows you to infinitely use No Retreat and get several omni boosts as well. You use Jaw Lock to lock yourself, preferable against a passive Pokemon trying to stall it out. Best part is that both No Retreat and Jaw Lock will be passed to every Pokemon.
Roaring Moon is one of the few Pokemon with Jaw Lock and is the strongest choice. Since it’s just gonna be omni boosting, it can afford to run more bulk. I also decided to add Covert Cloak in order to nasty status like Salt Cure, Burns, Paralysis, etc. It also has Taunt in case of opponent has Haze, Toxic, Will-o-wisp, or any other status move. Iron Head and Jaw Lock make up for decent coverage too.
Falinks is literally just there to pass No Retreat to the entire team, and is optimized to just kill itself without having any suicide moves. Lowest possible level, having Toxic Orb to avoid sleep, and moves to make sure it‘s more likely to be KOd in worst of scenarios. Take Down for recoil, Close Combat for Defensives drops, and Poison Jab to pressure the opponent into attacking me.
One might ask how it’s more optimal to do this instead of a regular decent Falinks, but Falinks is so shit it’s most of the time not worth keeping alive. However, in a mirror scenario when someone else is using Jaw Lock No Retreat, I can make sure I’m not letting them set up fully with No Retreats.

Ok so I made a team centered around it and surprisingly does well.

Changed up Falinks here knowing that I can simply just use Memento, which makes the entire process of this team style a lot easier.
Falinks, as stated before is solely here because it gets No Retreat to pass. I have Choice Scarf for it to kill itself as fast as possible. This time substituting Take Down for Sunny day if the off chance I want to set it up for Roaring Moon. It also is level 100 now.
Roaring moon is the same here and nothing has changed.
Corviknight is the team's passer of Power Trip and after receiving Jaw Lock + No Retreat can potentially sweep. However, you could also let it die so Roaring Moon would get it too. Of course, it has only utility moves it would need. Taunt for blocking Haze and letting it beat Unaware Pokemon, Roost to heal, and U-turn if it decides it wants to switch out.
Glimmora is here literally to just set up Hazards and pass Memento, which rest of the team can use.
Ting-Lu is honestly the real star here. It's the Pokemon with the best chance to sweep because of its massive bulk, which is blustered by Memento and Screens and Sap Strength, and decent enough Atk. Like before it uses Taunt to stuff Haze attempts and uses Sub to avoid status if it needs to.
Oh and Jumpluff is here to set up Screens, then Memento out.
It's gimmick to the limit, but it is surprisingly effective.

 

[Zenpoppa]

First off I want to start off by saying that the concept this OM is actually pretty cool. Also I'm glad to see the fast restrictions to set up moves like Shell Smash and Quiver Dance. However, I believe at some point a look at stat boosting moves in general or at least all that boost speed (Shift Gear, No Retreat, Dragon Dance) is needed. The ladder at the moment is just constant omni-boosting. You need to either set up first or have a combination of taunt/ haze/ unaware ready to go to combat it. Trying to simply pass a Pokemon a STAB/coverage move it doesn't normally get or passing recovery is actually pointless because you need to be setting up to combat stat boosting. Its pretty much bootleg Baton Pass right now.

 

[Catzzadilla]

Here's a team I've been using since Day 1 that has some synergy I like.



I usually lead Maushold. When people see Maushold lead, they think oh ok another PopBomb team, here we go again. But I'm actually more interested in Maushold's other signature move, Tidy Up!




Hazards? What Hazards? Tidy Up removes all hazards on your side, can't be blocked by Clear Body, Good as Gold, Ghost or Steel Types, and acts as a free dragon dance! Greedy Hazards setters may sometimes keep setting up on you, but this only boosts you more. PopBomb has sometimes won me games by itself or tore out half of the team by the time the Nice Mice™ die. It can also synergize well with other moves that are passed onto it, such as Mach Punch, Scale Shot and Icicle Spear, thanks to Technician, but unlike PopBomb, keep in mind all hits aren't guaranteed.


The three offensive sweepers on the team appreciate a nice little Dragon Dance with Benefits™, but the main character of this seasonal anime is Breloom. With Technician and Loaded Dice, it takes Bax and Moon's Icicle Spear and Scale Shot respectively, and elevates them to new heights! Tidy Up gives it a much appreciated speed boost, while also increasing its attack power and removing hazards! It passes Mach Punch to its teammates, but honestly force palm could be passed here if you want to keep maushold alive.


Flintstone Salamence works well to ward away psychic types, appreciates learning how to do the Draconic Boogie from his little rodent friend, and passes scale shot to the rest of the team. Gave it Roseli Berry and Iron Head for coverage and fairy resist, in case you wanna sweep. Worst case scenario, Bax and Breloom gain a dangerous new move.


Decided to grab Bax as an Icicle Spear user not only due to his strength, speed and bulk, but also because he appreciates receiving moves such as scale shot and Tidy Up. I gave him the dice to synergize with iSpear and Scale Shot better, but if you wanna give him, like, life orb, lefties, or a lunchbox with a ham-jam sandwich, I'm not the boss of you so go ahead.


Those four are the core of the team to me, and I realized I needed some defensive and special options as well. However, I couldn't think of any defensive or special mons that would synergize well with multi-hit/technician/tidy up, so I tried multiple combinations and this is what stuck:

Clod is there not only so we can pay our respects to Him, but also for unaware, Garganacl, and passing haze to Klefki. It's specially defensive but can take some physical hits pretty well.



Steel Fairy is great defensive typing, and with max HP and Defense investment and access to Reflect, Klefki can take a lot of hits. Prankster is its main appeal here, but it can also wall out physical attackers that aren't bear-shaped and know kung-fu.



I think the team can be improved, but I don't know how or what. Any suggestions? Otherwise, the team is a lot of fun, and I highly recommend giving it a try or taking inspiration from it!
Also all mons on the team are as color-coordinated as possible ok love you bye bye
2023/07/06 @ 23:58: Edited for clarification and format

 

[Cuddly]

Here's a team I've been using since Day 1 that has some synergy I like.


I usually lead Maushold. When people see Maushold lead, they think oh ok another PopBomb team, here we go again. But I'm actually more interested in Maushold's other signature move, Tidy Up!



Hazards? What Hazards? Tidy Up removes all hazards on your side, can't be blocked by Clear Body, Good as Gold, Ghost or Steel Types, and acts as a free dragon dance! Greedy Hazards setters may sometimes keep setting up on you, but this only boosts you more. PopBomb has sometimes won me games by itself or tore out half of the team by the time the Nice Mice™ die. It can also synergize well with other moves that are passed onto it, such as Mach Punch, Scale Shot and Icicle Spear, thanks to Technician, but unlike PopBomb, keep in mind all hits aren't guaranteed.


The three offensive sweepers on the team appreciate a nice little Dragon Dance with Benefits™, but the main character of this seasonal anime is Breloom. With Technician and Loaded Dice, it takes Bax and Moon's Icicle Spear and Scale Shot respectively, and elevates them to new heights! Tidy Up gives it a much appreciated speed boost, while also increasing its attack power and removing hazards! It passes Mach Punch to its teammates, but honestly force palm could be passed here if you want to keep maushold alive.


Flintstone Salamence Works well to ward away psychic types, appreciates its little Draconic Boogie from his little rodent friend, and passes scale shot to the rest of the team. Gave it Roseli Berry and Iron Head for coverage and fairy resist, in case you wanna sweep. Worst case scenario, Bax and Breloom gain a dangerous new move.


Decided to grab Bax as an Icicle Spear user not only due to his strength, speed and bulk, but also because he appreciates receiving moves such as scale shot and bulk up. I gave him the dice to synergize with iSpear and Scale Shot better, but if you wanna give him, like, life orb, lefties, or a lunchbox with a ham-jam sandwich, I'm not the boss of you so go ahead.

Those four are the core of the team to me, and I realized I needed some defensive and special options as well. However, I couldn't think of any defensive or special mons that would synergize well with multi-hit/technician/tidy up, so I tried multiple combinations and this is what stuck:

Clod is there not only so we can pay our respects to Him, but also for unaware, Garganacl, and passing haze to Klefki. It's specially defensive but can take some physical hits pretty well.



Steel Fairy is great defensive typing, and with max HP and Defense investment and access to Reflect, Klefki can take a lot of hits. Prankster is its main appeal here, but it can also wall out physical attackers that aren't bear-shaped and know kung-fu.

I think the team can be improved, but I don't know how or what. Nevertheless, it is a lot of fun, and I highly recommend giving it a try!

So why does Klefki use Psychic in this team btw?

 

[Darek]

Been playing this tier a good bit these past few days and it is very funny but also very dumb. Boosting is definitely broken but is kind of what defines the tier in my eyes so idk. Anyway I've been spamming a Shift Gear team to decent success:



The team is pretty straightforward: Tinkaton's job is to set up Rocks and die, then Revaroom uses Shift Gear + Hammer to try and sweep but more often just gets sacked. From then Ursaluna, Kingambit, and Hoopa-U are pretty straightforward abusers of Shift Gear, Ursaluna able to brute force through with Facade, Hoopa-U able to stomach special hits and attack from the special side, and Kingambit because he is broken and gets STAB on Hammer. Lastly, Corviknight serves as another wincon by utilizing Iron Defense + Shift Gear + Power Trip to snowball through bulkier teams. Substitute prevents the effects of Salt Cure, and sacking Hoopa-U gives access to Taunt, and since Corviknight has Speed EVs to outspeed Iron Valiant and Roaring Moon at +2, Taunt can shut down Encore/Taunt/Haze/Whirlwind strats. You also have access to Gigaton Hammer as a strong STAB option for Corv as well.

 

[Catzzadilla]

So why does Klefki use Psychic in this team btw?

Great question. I think it boiled down to "I want a special psychic type coverage move", but now that I think about it, Dazzling Gleam could work better here.
EDIT: Yeah, it does. Not walled by dark types.

 

[Catzzadilla]

The bans are now live! Thank you KaenSoul for the implementation

 

[Billybobman]

Here's my current prankster team:

It used to run Tornadus, but I lost to Dragonite too much, so hopefully Klefki helps...
Grafaiai helps absorb t-spikes and provides Copycat.

Encore and Taunt help beat set up mons.
Screens can help aid Pawmot, Encore also helps to keep it safe. I wouldn't expect it to be able to pull off Revival Blessing more than 2 times.
So I wouldn't suggest passing Recycle. Copycat can sometimes be used on Revival Blessing.

I think Iron Valiant is the best Dbond user to use since it has good stats and since Prankster mons hate Dark types.

 

[quagsirefan888]

Not really set related but I just wanted to say that the banner for this is the best one i've seen for any OM hands down, amazing job

 

[Billybobman]

I think shuffling is a strong option in this meta. For one thing it stops set up sweepers, but it also helps you to weaken Pokémon before they can pass their moves.

Parashuffle

Dragonite @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Multiscale
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Thunder Wave
- Roost
- Substitute
- Dragon Tail

+ Strength Sap

This is a set from a while back, it's been nerfed with the healing move nerf. The main idea of this set is to spread paralysis and uses full paralysis chances to set up a substitute, then you heal up to reactivate multiscale which can help keep your substitute intact. Now that you have access to a ridiculous move like Strength Sap, it becomes easier to reach full health. The stat drop can also help keep your substitutes intact. It can also make use of Will-o-Wisp to cripple physical attackers. I would consider pairing this with a strong Hex user, a Hazard Setter, and some way to deal with opposing Substitutes.

Some weaknesses to take note of are Taunt, Encore, Rock Blast, Population Bomb, Icicle Spear, Substitute, Lunar Blessing, Heal Bell, Trick, Hatterene, etc.