Fifth Gen Wi-Fi HEAVY STALL

[blarajan]

Hello. When the fifth generation came in, I decided with the new metagame, I wanted to try out a new playstyle as well. Since I've already tried (and failed) at hyper offense and tried semi-stall (twas okay), I decided on heavy stall to dominate my play style for this generation. And quite frankly, I adore it. It can be frustrating when you calculate out the stall for the next few turns, and it's ruined by a critical hit, but, it's often quite satisfying when you see the other poke faint as you planned it out.

Now, for any stall team to work out properly, it requires passive damage and phazing. Likewise, the pokemon have to be rather bulky. With this in mind, I created my team.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
First, the lead position. I knew what I wanted right away, as it does every single thing I had to do for the team. With self recovery, a phazing move, Stealth Rocks, and sandstorm to add to the passive damage, the Hippowdon lead was a must. He has become my absolute favorite lead to use.

With Stealth Rocks down, I needed another form of entry hazards. Spikes are practically required, as well. Skarmory was instantly added to the team. With incredibly physical bulk and an underestimated special bulk, phazing, Spikes, and self recovery, Skarmory has become an irreplaceable member of the team. Hippowdon/Skarmory are the only two members that have never changed.

With this many entry hazards, I obviously required an anti-spinner. It's not nice for all that hard work to be removed by a pesky forretress, is it? This is where I've been having my problems. I've been swapping out my ghost left and right. I originally settled on an Evolution Stone Dusclops. Then I tried a Desukan. I really don't know which ghost I should use, but I'm currently settled on a Burungeru.

After the original two, I've been having a crazy hard time determining the team members. But even with the confusion, I knew a spinner was necessary. Since I was utilizing Hippowdon's sandstream ability, I thought Doryuuzu would be a great spinner. However, I realized he was too frail and then decided for a Tentacruel: Rapid Spin support/Bulky/(and most importantly): Toxic Spikes. With his inclusion, all forms of entry hazards AND sandstorm support are present on my team.

The team is really starting to shape up. However, I realized that I didn't have a particularly good WALL. While I have incredibly bulky pokemon, three with instant recovery, I still wanted a wall. More importantly: a special wall, as Skarmory/Hippowdon take physical hits without breaking a sweat (Hippowdon survived a Lickilicky's belly drummed ice punch even though it was previously wounded.) This spot was also crazily debated. Rankurusu? Calm mind Espeon? Blissey? I really didn't want to resort to Blissey, as I hate it with a passion. I decided on a Clefable. With Encore, Clefable was much more useful than all of them. It's my counter to Nattorei, Stat uppers, Entry stackers, ETC. I switch in Clefable, Encore, and Seismic Toss/TSpikes stall to death. It's rather effective, actually.

Finally, I needed a revenger. Once again, the position was highly fought for. Choice scarf espeon? Choice specs/scarf Latios? I had no idea. However, soon I realized who I needed. With the obvious increase in weather teams (Drought and Drizzle mons), maintaining my sandstream became incredibly important. However, with Rain Dance special attackers, sometimes Hippowdon would end up dying when he really didn't want to die. Or hax or something. However, all this meant was I needed another sandstormer. Here came choice scarf Tyranitar. He also has pursuit, which is nice.

Then, I changed the Clefable to Rankurusu.

Recap:
Two sand stormers
Four instant recovery moves
All forms of entry hazards
Rapid Spin
Bulky spin blocker

For my first actual stall team, I think it came out well.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
IN DEPTH FOR EACH POKEMON.

Oh Hippowdon. How I adore thee. It has become my absolute favorite lead for any team, as the possibilities are endless. A bulky and POWERFUL physical attacker? Stall lead? Stockpile toxic stall from the get go? I doubt the last one is really useful, but I like to think the Hippo's good for any team.

Hippowdon (Nickname: Rhino)
-Sandstream
-Leftovers
252 HP/152 Def/104 SDef
-Relaxed
-0 Speed IVs

-Stealth Rock
-Earthquake
-Roar
-Slack Off

This is my dedicated staller of a lead. First of all, the -Speed nature and 0 speed IVs are absolutely crucial. Well one, you really shouldn't rely on Hippowdon to outspeed anything that aren't named Nattorei or Shuckle. But outside of that, the Hippo needs to be slower than any sort of Politoed or Ninetales. That way, MY weather and not my opponent's is the one that stays. Other than that, the EVs are meant to give him crazy physical bulk and decent special bulk. Stealth Rock is the first of my entry hazard madness. Roar is to phaze the team and rack up some more Stealth Rock/Sandstorm damage. That on its own is incredibly useful. Earthquake for neutral coverage coming off Hippowdon's monster attack stat and so it isn't completely taunt bait. Finally, Slack Off is used to regain a reliable 50% of health back when necessary. The combination of this and roar are absolutely required for Hippowdon's stalling, allowing him to be useful from the start of the battle and remain an integral member of the team throughout the entire battle. He is the exact opposite of a suicide lead.

Skarmory is here for almost entirely the same reason as Hippowdon. To be honest, atleast for this team, they're practically the same Pokemon. Bulky physical tank with about the same moveset. Its flying STAB comes in handy quite frequently with the new grass types (Erufuun/Jarooda), the new fighting types (ROOBUSHIN), and neutral damage against Nattorei.

Skarmory(Nickname: Rooster)
-Sturdy
-Shed Shell
-252 HP/240 SDef/16 Spe
-Careful

-Spikes
-Whirlwind
-Brave Bird
-Roost

Shed Shell is only there because of Shandera. Skarmory cannot take Shandera, so shed shell is required. The EVs are designed to maximize Skarmory's special bulk. With its steel typing, the special defense EVs, and max HP evs, it is able to take most special attacks with ease. Likewise, with the same logic but its original defensive bulk, it's incredible with physical attacks. It's only really scared of special fire/electric sweepers, such as Jolteon and Heatran. The moveset plays exactly the same as Hippowdon's. Spikes for entry hazards/Whirlwind for phazing/Brave Bird so it isn't taunt bait/Roost for reliable self recovery. This, however, is already incredibly useful. Skarmory/Hippowdon form my phazing core and have swept teams before. I love them.

-Burungeru (Nickname: The King)
-Water Absorb
-Leftovers
-252 HP/180 Def/76 SDef
-Bold

-Ice Beam
-Surf
-Will-O-Wisp
-Recover

I'm going to be quite honest. The EV spread was random. The max HP wasn't, but I chose the other numbers randomly. Buru's special defense stat was higher, so my only logic here was focusing on it less. I'm debating the most here. While Ice Beam/Surf and Burungeru's Water Absorb provides me liquid immunity/coverage, his presence could be removed. Though, he's currently my favorite ghost, with the amazing Water typing, ability to spin block, and instant recovery. Ice Beam/Surf are attacking moves/coverage, WoW is to cripple physical sweepers, and Recover is for instant recovery. I feel like it's the most useful ghost, as it's bulky with recovery..but I could be wrong.

Tentacruel(Nickname: Spongebob)
-Liquid Ooze
-Leftovers
-252 HP/120 Def/136 SDef
-Calm

-Toxic Spikes
-Rapid Spin
-Surf
-Hidden Power Electric

Tentacruel, though only a recent addition to the team, brings a lot to the table. With rapid spin, I don't need to be concerned switching in the appropriate Pokemon. Likewise, its great water typing provides useful resistances, his poison typing provides an immunity to toxic spikes that are quite useful, and its sheer bulk allows it to put up Toxic Spikes. Toxic Spikes complete my entry hazard ensemble, Rapid Spin removes my opponent's. Surfis a STAB move that is useful at times and HP Electric is for opposing water types. If Rapid Spin/Haze were legal, I'd give up sludge bomb in a heart beat. It really upsets me that they are not. Ah well.

Tyranitar (Nickname: Porcupine)
-Sandstream
-Choice Scarf
-252 Att/252 Spe/4 HP
-Jolly

-Earthquake
-Fire Punch
-Stone Edge
-Pursuit

Tyranitar is an incredibly useful member of the team, and does a few key things. One of such is trapping them pesky psychic/ghost pokemon. With pursuit, I put multiple things that could tear through my team (Scarf Latios?) in an Oh Shit position. With Tyranitar's boost in special defense through Sand Stream, I generally come out on top in these situations. Likewise, Tyranitar provides another useful thing: one more sandstreamer. He partners with Hippowdon in ensuring I keep sandstream up and prevents Sunny Day/Hail/Rain on my opponent's side of the field. He is in case Hippowdon gets killed off and my opponent still has their weather mon, or for the unexpected MOVE rain dance/sunny day. Earthquake/Stone Edge are for coverage. Pursuit is for trapping. Fire Punch is to 2HKO Nattorei and other weak Mons. The EV spread is to maximize speed/attack, and the nature allows it to outspeed up to base 115 Pokemon. Rather useful, but still quite a slow revenger.

Rankurusu(Nickname: PedoBear)
-Magic Guard
-Leftovers
-252 HP/252 Def/4 SDef
-Calm

-Calm Mind
-Psychic
-Focus Blast
-Recover

The Clefable switched to a Rankurusu at the recommendation of many of the raters, and I like it more. Magic Guard lets it act as a status absorber and grants it immunity from entry hazards/sandstorm. The EVs maximize its defense and HP, so it can take physical hits decently well. Calm Mind whoring works out rather well, actually. I can get three about every time. Psychic is for the massive influx of psychics, and Focus Blast is for Darks/Steels. Rankurusu has been working rather well with its stalling, and will beat Blissey 1v1 every time.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Well that's my team! It seems like it wins most of the time. The main thing that beats me is my lack of knowledge on the new generation's capabilities/movesets and Hax. I'm not sure what beats me completely yet because frankly, the majority of the 5th Gen Pokemon's potential is lost to me. It'd be great if you gave me a rate/recommendation! Thanks for reading!

 

[y4f]

First of all, I would suggest dropping Brave Bird for Taunt so that Skarmory can prevent stuff from setting up on it. Taunt Skarmory is most often used as a lead, yet it's actually incredibly effective even outside the lead spot. Not only does Taunt prevent setup, but it can also prevent opposing entry hazards, recovery, and basically everything opposing stall does. It also lets you phase out opposing Skarmorys without fear of the speed tie leading to their Whirlwind hitting. On Tentacruel, drop Sludge Bomb for Ice Beam. Poison only hits Grass super effectively, while Ice hits Grass, Ground, Flying, and Dragon. Most notably it hits incoming Salamence, Garchomp, Flygon, Sazandora, Landlos, Shaymin, Shaymin-S, and more.

 

[Plusle]

Hello! Y4F I disagree with you. All tentacruel should run HP Electric as it hits the premier Spinblocker Burungeru Super Effectively.

Gl with your team!

 

[Alan]

give hippo max hp/max def @ impish, with the way weather is this generation it wont be taking many special hits as it is so you might as well have it wall the plethora of physical attackers that exist.

run impish on skarm so it can take Ono CB Outrages better. i would still pick blissey/chansey @ evo/p2 @ evo over clefable but thats just me.....

 

[Rezileen]

Hey Rajan, you asked me for a rate.

So the first thing that irks me is that the team is rather insecure versus fighters, which can easily switch into TTar after a Pursuit or Stone Edge. Starting with Roobushin, your team basically relies on phazes to delay its damage. Skarm won't like taking banded Drain Punches or other fighting moves on the switch, and its Brave Bird will have trouble getting through bulk up variants. Tenta and Buru can't do much back and both dislike Stone Edge and Payback while Hippo can only roar it away for it to come back later. Other than Roobushin, Terakion and Nasty Plot Lucario can punch holes in your team after setting up as you switch TTar out.

I also see late-game Darkrai giving trouble since none of your special walls like its Dark Pulse and Focus Blast combo. The solution I propose is to switch Hippowdon for Gliscor, who adds more insurance against fighters (You still have to play around Roobushin a bit), and replace Clefable with Technician Breloom.

Gliscor - Toxic Orb
Poison Heal
- Earthquake
- Taunt
- Stealth Rock
- Roost

Breloom - Leftovers / Shed Shell / Life Orb
Technician
- Mach Punch
- Bullet Seed
- Stone Edge
- Filler of your choice

Gliscor can set up Stealth Rock as well and can help you stall with Taunt. Also, Poison Heal Gliscor can take status once Toxic Orb activates. As for Clefable, I really don't see anything other than Rotom-W that TTar, Buru, and Tenta can't take. I don't think status is that big of an issue for this team, and Breloom can switch in on both of Rotom-W's stabs while also checking Darkrai and other sweepers, including Terakion.

Other than that, some minor perks:
Give Tenta HP Elec over Sludge Bomb for enemy Buru
Keep Careful on Skarm. The special defense helps when dealing with Suicunes, Burus, etc.

Good luck with the team. Knowing you, you probably don't like many changes.

 

[blarajan]

/bump. could i please get a legitimate rate?

 

[Jaroda]

Gliscor doens't get Roost OR Stealth Rock with Poison Heal. Totally invalid set.

I see a huge Roopushin, Zapdos and Borotorosu weakness. Zapdos and Borotorosu are immune to EQ and KO three of your pokemon weak to electric and can handle Hippo with HP Ice. Roopushin barrels through everything but Tentacruel, and will win a BU and Drain Punch struggle against Hippo and Skarm if you don't phaze him, but that still doesn't KILL him and you will lose if either is your last poke. Not to mention if you layered Toxic Spikes he'll thank you for the Guts boost.

As a result, I think Rankurusu would actually highly benefit your team. Use a TR variant with three attacks for perfect coverage. Since all of your pokemon are quite slow, 0 Spd IVs in one or two will suddenly become crazy good sweepers. Psychic, Focus Blast, Trick Room and Shadow Ball/Calm Mind/Recover not only counters Roopushin but gives you a Fighting move which your team lacks and unparalleled speed and power. You'll neuter Doryuzuu abusing your sand.

 

[Chou Toshio]

Wow, a Stall Team without Blissey! But I think this is an excellent decision, especially given the metagame. Tyranitar can suck up a lot of special attacks well, and so somewhat makes up for the deficit from lack of Blissey in addition to the considerable special bulk of Tenta, Buru and Clef. Scarftar + ShedSkarm must net you a lot of Shanderaa kills . . .

I also really, REALLY like the "2 weather setter" concept, so I'll hold back my initial instinct to swap Hippow for Gliscor.

That said, that doesn't change the fact that from what I can see, your team has some major issue with Fighting types (which are EVERYWHERE). Especially with Skarm going special defensive. Roobushin and HP Dark Kerudio in particular look like they would give this team some major issues.

My suggestion would be to swap Clefable (to me the weakest link here) for Rankurusu. Rankurusu checks your fighting, and also loves playing in the sand with Magic Guard. It also gives you a "win condition" outside hazards, because given a few calm minds (which it can easily get) it will easily sweep through many offensive teams.


On a different front, I'm also curious how you deal with Jaroda, as it seems like it could sweep through your team with relative ease, given Skarmory as your only Grass resist, and all your pokemon being slower and unable to pose a real threat to it. :/

 

[blarajan]

Thank you for that idea Jaroda! I did have a Rankurusu before Clefable, and loved it, but I must have been using the wrong set. I had a monoattacker set that wasn't working for me, so I swapped it out. I'll revert back to a Rankurusu. Psychic/Focus Blast/Trick Room/Recover seems like it'd work really nicely. I'll use recover as, well..this is a stall team. I need Pokemon to outlast, and the best thing to do that is with a recovery move. The Trick Room idea..is amazing. Hippowdon OUTSPEEDING things, but always putting weather out first is a lovely concept. And yes, Chou, I do absolutely wreck Shandera. Well, Jaroda's never been a problem, solely because I have had Skarmory to take it. I've never fought a Jaroda without Skarmory. Perversity Jaroda is in Wi-Fi, right? It doesn't like to leave after +2, so I just Brave Bird it to death. Though I can see how that'd be a problem. I'd probably just outspeed with Tyranitar + Fire Punch after death foddering something, but that's a problem.

 

[Alex Practice]

I'd also suggest Rankurusu. It's a great status absorber (People frequently attempt Will-o-Wisp and Toxic on it, whose damage is negated by Magic Guard) and doesn't take any damage from hazards or Sand Stream, which fits well with the defensive nature of your team.

I'm using:

@ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
Nature: Bold
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 6 Sp. Def
~ Psychic
~ Shadow Ball
~ Focus Blast
~ Calm Mind

The defensive investment helps it with 'roo's paybacks and U-Turns from the likes of Borutorosu.

Another small suggestion: Burungeru with Special Defense investment and Shadow Ball is an extremely effective Starmie counter, taking something around %25 from Thunderbolt and 2HKOing with Shadow Ball. If you feel confident that Sandstorm and Toxic Spikes will wear down Starmie while you Recover, still make sure to invest in Special Defense enough so that it is harder for Starmie to 2HKO with Thunderbolt if it predicts your switch.

Other than that, the team looks pretty solid!

 

[Chou Toshio]

Shed Shell Jaroda v. Skarmory:

1st Leaf Storm: 10.8% - 12.9%

+2 Sp.A Hidden Power Fire: 58.1% - 68.9%

So with Stealth Rock damage, Jaroda can do a max of 94% to Skarmory as it switch ins and Brave Birds. So Skarmory will always live, but only if it has full health. On the other hand: 77% - 91.4% is Skarmory's Brave Bird against Jaroda, so if it is at good health, it has a chance to kill you even with sand damage. This is problematic for a pokemon that can potentially sweep the whole team.

If Skarm isn't in tip top condition (or if Jaroda is using Life Orb) it will lose to Jaroda.

Life Orb Jaroda:

Leaf Storm: 14.1% - 16.5%

HP Fire: 75.4% - 89.2%

Which is always a 2 HKOs you before you can attack with Stealth Rock.

 

[Jaroda]

Yeah, Jaroda usually carries HP Fire, so it really can run through your whole team. Hence Trick Room.

And if you plan on using Hippowdon to actually attack in Trick Room, replace Roar with Ice Fang or something else. Don't want to get walled by Flying types and Levitate.

 

[Chou Toshio]

His pokemon aren't really equipped to sweep though, they can't really abuse trick room. I'd say the Calm Mind + Recover Rankurusu is a better fit here.

 

[Jaroda]

He doesn't need a whole team to, just Rankurusu and one other. It only lasts effectively 4 turns after all. That's enough for Rank to sweep and have one other safe switch. Hippowdon would be my other choice.

 

[Chou Toshio]

He doesn't need a whole team to, just Rankurusu and one other. It only lasts effectively 4 turns after all. That's enough for Rank to sweep and have one other safe switch. Hippowdon would be my other choice.

I think you have the wrong mentality here. The bolded would be all well and good if this was heavy offense or semi-stall-- it's fine as long as each pokemon wins back its value (kills one and does even more damage). This and that are two different things.

Stall is a strategy where you aim to preserve all your pokemon, because only by preserving the whole team, can you continue to stall by continued intelligent countering. Once one piece falls, the whole team begins to collapse. As a wall breaker/semi-stall player I know-- the real battle is to make the first kill, and then once I've made the first kill against Stall, the chances of winning swing heavily in my favor.

It doesn't matter if Rankurusu killed 2 pokemon if the result is the enemy Roobushin sweeping the entire rest of the team (quite possible frankly).

I suggested Rankurusu specifically because it fits into the stall mode as a pokemon with huge survivability who can also repeatedly check certain threats (fighting types) mostly due to Magic Guard, Calm Mind and Recover. Using a Trick Room sweeper would defeat the purpose frankly.

If you want to rebuild the team as semi-stall, that's fine but I thought this was a dedicated stall team-- and if you are going to make this Semi-Stall you have a lot more work to do than throw in a TR Rankurusu and give Hippowdon Ice Fang.

 

[Rezileen]

Sorry about the Gliscor set. I forgot that it learns both of those attacks only by TM. Doesn't matter though since you refused to change Hippowdon anyway.

And go with Chou's advice on a Calm Mind/Recover set rather than Trick Room. Not only does your team take little advantage of it, but it can screw you over in cases where you might want to take out something with TTar while Trick Room is still up. Doryuzuu isn't going to get past Hippowdon and Skarmory anytime soon anyway.

I still think that the team has some trouble against Darkrai though. But you already said you didn't like Breloom and most things that check it don't fit on a stall team. Otherwise, it's nice.

 

[Jaroda]

Fair enough. I don't normally run stall teams. Although with team preview if you know the enemy has a Roopushin, you wouldn't play your Rankurusu until you counter it. But hey, I suppose if heavy stall is the goal of the team than it is counter intuitive.

 

[blarajan]

So what Rankurusu set do you guys recommend? Calm Mind/Recover/Psychic/Focus Blast? 252 HP/252 Def/4 SDef?

 

[Jaroda]

Yes and with a Life Orb. You won't be taking recoil damage with Magic Guard.

 

[Super Mario Bro]

Hippo should have enough speed to outrun Wobbuffet. If Wobb switches in on EQ, encores, and counters, that would certainly be no fun.

Also, replace Fire Punch with Fire Blast on Tyranitar. Fire Blast's damage output will almost always exceed the damage output of Fire Punch against steels in particular, even with a hindering nature:

Ttar's Fire Punch vs. 252 HP/252 Def Impish Skarmory: 28.7% - 34.1%
Fire Blast vs. 252 HP/252 Def Impish Skarmory: 59.9% - 70.7%

Overall, the team seems quite solid. However, you seem to be quite weak to Bulk Up Zuruzukin. If it shows up as the last Poke, you can't really do much to it at all, other than hope to get a Brave Bird crit. Also, you are astoundingly weak to Nasty Plot Lucario, who can set up on Ttar's Pursuit and sweep your team. Because of this, you should consider using a Fling-Acrobat Poison Heal Gliscor, who patches up your weakness to fighting types in general. I'm not sure exactly where to place it, though, as everything on this team has an important role.

This is the set I am talking about:

Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Jolly
EVs: 252 HP/40 Def/216 Spe
-Earthquake
-Protect
-Fling
-Acrobat

A spread of 252 HP/252 Def/4 Spe Impish works as well, but if you do this, you wouldn't be able to out-speed Lucario.

Good luck.

 

[Whybe]

SMB I really like that idea for a Gliscor

Just once question though, why not Arial Ace instead of Acrobat. Unless there is something I am missing AA looks the better move.

 

[Jaroda]

Cause when you Fling your Toxic Orb Acrobat's BP doubles to 110, and that's before STAB.

I can attest to the effectiveness of this pokemon, it is a downright beast and a counter to many of the top new threats like Roopushin, Blaziken and Breloom. I go Impish myself though for added bulk.

 

[blarajan]

I have absolutely no idea where I would fit Gliscor in. But would he be incredibly necessary if i have that Rankurusu set?

Rankurusu(Nickname: PedoBear) <==must be on each of my teams
-Magic Guard
-Life Orb
-252 HP/252 Def/4 SDef
-Bold

-Calm Mind
-Recover
-Focus Blast
-Psychic

With this Rankurusu on my team, I should be okay with Fighting types. Though it has less physical bulk than Gliscor, meaning less room for error, I have nobody I'd be able to replace.

Tentacruel has TSpikes and Rapid Spin.
Hippo has Phazing/Stealth Rock/Sandstream
TTar has Pursuit/Revenging/Sandstream
Burungeru has WoW/Bulk/Spin Blocking
Skarmory has Spikes/Phazing
Rankurusu has Special Bulk/Special Walling(with a calm mind or two)/Way to Handle Fighters

I have no idea where Gliscor would fit in. And quick question. If it flings its toxic orb and switches out, would Acrobat remain a 110 bp attack?

 

[Chou Toshio]

No, Rankurusu should be an ok Lucario check too.

 

[Jaroda]

Acrobat's BP is doubled as long as the pokemon is not holding an item.No, Rankurusu should be fine. STAB Psychic is very useful these days.