Policy Review Evolution Project Rules Workshop

[sanjay120]

I know this is for OU, and this may be subjective but I was responding to the "UUs deserve it more", but at least UUs have their place. Poor Zangoose. :( (yes I know it's a pair but it was just an example, which I explained earlier)

EDIT: Are the analyses fully updated with the tiers?

EDIT2: Damn I can't find past tiering anywhere.

 

[eric the espeon]

Just because something "was once OU" is also not a reason to remove it entirely from the list of options.
You say they dropped from OU due to a "Metagame shift", well the metagame HAS sifted and we should work from how the metagame is now, not in early DP when people thought that Rampados was as threatening as Garchomp or Rhyperior.

An objective method would be to add in the 11 eligible Pokemon in BL for voting, and if they evolve Breloom or whatever its their choice.
That is very simple, all Pokemon that are not used a lot and fit the required things (not legend, ect) get to be in the poll.

Its our job to keep the mass from making something broken, NOT to tell them what is "more deserving" of an evolution.

Ditto won't be included for two reasons. One: like Unown, it only has one move. We won't be giving it a movepool, or else it just isn't Ditto. Therefore, it removes a whole poll from the process.

Not an issue, we just say in that poll: Should we keep the movepool the same.

Two: the stats are decided. It would have massive HP and Speed. Any other stats wouldn't help it in any way, shape or form, since it needs high Speed to get off the transform, and HP is the only stat that carries. Therefore, it would be broken, since you could easily transform into something like Gengar and hammer the opponent, while not taking much due to the high HP. Hell, transform into Shuckle and you've got yourself a gg there.

Surely we could find a way to balance its stats in such a way that it is nether useless or broken.... Saying we can't make it because it would be broken is... silly. With all the collected experience and knowledge we have, if we chose to, we could make an OU Ditto, or Unown (New ability anyone?).
But for Unown it is different, they have many different forms, they are depicted as a legend in the move so I can see you taking that off the poll.

Note that I do not support evolving Ditto in the least. I just think it should be on the poll for voters to deicide upon.

 

[Nasty Pass]

I just noticed this, is there any reason the Hitmons aren't on the list?

 

[tennisace]

No split evos.

 

[Nasty Pass]

Ah, forgot about Tyrogue, sorry.

 

[Gothic Togekiss]

At the moment, I don't see any problems with the eligible Pokemon or the process. The only questions I have are if we'll ever do a split/stone/whatever evolution after the first EVO project?

 

[tennisace]

0_o Well lets make it into a wall then sounds fun!

Hey guys this isn't the "Decide which suck-ass Pokemon we want to evolve for fanboy reasons" thread. That thread is at Serebii forums. This is where we're making the process. Stay on topic please.

At the moment, I don't see any problems with the eligible Pokemon or the process. The only questions I have are if we'll ever do a split/stone/whatever evolution after the first EVO project?

Eventually maybe, probably not as its a bit more complicated.

 

[Ninja Dood]

Just wondering does Ninjask/Shedinja count as a split evo?

 

[tennisace]

Just wondering does Ninjask/Shedinja count as a split evo?

For simplicity, yes. So no Sheddy evo.

 

[Tingaling]

I like the idea of trying to stay similar to the original stat spread, but what if the evo is for an absolutely terrible pokemon, like farfetch'd? would you have to raise every stat, because his stats are very evenly distributed?

 

[Ancax]

Does a Defense always have to stay the same? My Spinda evo has the same speed, and there are many evos/split evos that have different defenses but the same speed.

 

[Petope]

Soo how soon from now are we starting the real process?

 

[tennisace]

I like the idea of trying to stay similar to the original stat spread, but what if the evo is for an absolutely terrible pokemon, like farfetch'd? would you have to raise every stat, because his stats are very evenly distributed?

Yes.

Does a Defense always have to stay the same? My Spinda evo has the same speed, and there are many evos/split evos that have different defenses but the same speed.

No.

Soo how soon from now are we starting the real process?

After the complete movepool of CAP 5.

 

[eric the espeon]

I like the idea of trying to stay similar to the original stat spread, but what if the evo is for an absolutely terrible pokemon, like farfetch'd? would you have to raise every stat, because his stats are very evenly distributed?

No. I disagree with tennis.
I do not think that all stats "need" to be raised, however the tradition is to keep the same general spread. But there are exceptions, for example:

Metang's spread is:
60 HP/75 Atk/100 Def/55 SpA/80 SpD/50 Spe
while Metagross's is
80 HP/135 Atk/130 Def/95 SpA/90 SpD/70 Spe

So the order of highest stats for Metang is
1. Def
2. SpD
3. Atk
4. HP
5. SpA
6. Spe

but Metagross's is
1. Atk
2. Def
3. SpA
4. SpD
5. HP
6. Spe

So Metagross's attacks gained a lot more points than its defences with evolution.

There are much more extreme examples, such as Scyther --> Scizor, so it would be best to not restrict ourselvs by saying we must rase all stats, or we must rast all stats somewhat evenly.

And I still hold that BLs should be on the poll.

 

[tennisace]

No. I disagree with tennis.
I do not think that all stats "need" to be raised, however the tradition is to keep the same general spread. But there are exceptions, for example:

Metang's spread is:
60 HP/75 Atk/100 Def/55 SpA/80 SpD/50 Spe
while Metagross's is
80 HP/135 Atk/130 Def/95 SpA/90 SpD/70 Spe

So the order of highest stats for Metang is
1. Def
2. SpD
3. Atk
4. HP
5. SpA
6. Spe

but Metagross's is
1. Atk
2. Def
3. SpA
4. SpD
5. HP
6. Spe

So Metagross's attacks gained a lot more points than its defences with evolution.

There are much more extreme examples, such as Scyther --> Scizor, so it would be best to not restrict ourselvs by saying we must rase all stats, or we must rast all stats somewhat evenly.

You're right, there are exceptions. It would be by poll so there would be some leway. However, common sense says if something is a physical tank, it won't evolve into a special sweeper.

And I still hold that BLs should be on the poll.

For the sake of getting this shit done, find me the list of the CURRENT BL Pokemon that are eligible. I'm relenting.

 

[eric the espeon]

You're right, there are exceptions. It would be by poll so there would be some leway. However, common sense says if something is a physical tank, it won't evolve into a special sweeper.

Yes. Some change to role is ok, but a totally different spread would be silly.

For the sake of getting this shit done, find me the list of the CURRENT BL Pokemon that are eligible. I'm relenting.

Doing. Will edit it in.

Edit: You said to use CaP-OU so here you go:

Abomnasnow
Floatzel
Hariyama
Houndoom
Marowak
Pinsir
Smeargle
Tauros
Ursaring
Zangoose
Donphan (OU in normal, but not here)
Milotic (OU in normal, but not here)
Skarmory (OU in normal, but not here. lol... Physical Blissey?)


Also if we use CaP stats Absol is OU so would not be allowed. A little odd.. but there we go.
Absol is the only Pokemon that would be blocked from being evolved by using CaP's stats.

 

[tennisace]

Hmmm... Really it would make more sense to use normal OU (Really, Skarm?), even though I told you to use the CAP OU =P. If you can't get it, I will, we have time anyway.

 

[eric the espeon]

Well just cut off Donphan, Milotic, Skarmory and add on Absol (to UU) and you have it.

CaP's OU list is significantly smaller than OU's and as far as I can see everything else that's different between them is not eligible to evolve.

I would prefer to use CaP's OU list, but its not something I mind about much.

 

[Accipender]

Id like to see Aerodactly evolve into a better sweeper if its not too late to suggest.

 

[eric the espeon]

Id like to see Aerodactly evolve into a better sweeper if its not too late to suggest.

Please read the first post.
It is quite clear, and has nice big bold letters:

This is not a thread to suggest Pokemon for evolutions or any other creation concepts. This is only for discussing the evolution creation process.

 

[tennisace]

Well just cut off Donphan, Milotic, Skarmory and add on Absol (to UU) and you have it.

CaP's OU list is significantly smaller than OU's and as far as I can see everything else that's different between them is not eligible to evolve.

I would prefer to use CaP's OU list, but its not something I mind about much.

Yeah, that sounds good.

Abomasnow
Absol       
Altaria     
Arbok     
Ariados     
Banette     
Bibarel     
Cacturne     
Camerupt     
Carnivine     
Chatot 
Cherrim     
Claydol     
Corsola     
Crawdaunt     
Delcatty     
Delibird     
Dewgong     
Dodrio     
Drapion     
Drifblim     
Dunsparce     
Electrode     
Farfetch'd     
Fearow 
Floatzel
Furret     
Gastrodon     
Girafarig     
Golduck     
Granbull     
Grumpig     
Hariyama
Houndoom
Hypno     
Illumise^     
Jynx     
Kangaskhan     
Kecleon     
Kingler     
Kricketune     
Lanturn     
Lapras     
Ledian     
Linoone     
Lopunny     
Lumineon     
Lunatone*     
Luvdisc     
Magcargo     
Manectric     
Mantine     
Marowak
Masquerain     
Mawile     
Mightyena     
Miltank&     
Minun#     
Muk
Noctowl     
Octillery     
Pachirisu     
Parasect     
Pelipper     
Persian     
Pinsir
Plusle#
Primeape     
Purugly     
Quagsire     
Qwilfish     
Rapidash     
Raticate     
Relicanth     
Sableye     
Sandslash     
Seaking     
Seviper$     
Sharpedo     
Shuckle     
Skuntank     
Smeargle
Solrock*     
Spinda     
Stantler     
Steelix     
Swalot     
Swellow     
Tauros&
Torkoal     
Toxicroak     
Tropius     
Ursaring
Venomoth     
Vespiquen     
Volbeat^     
Wailord     
Weezing     
Whiscash     
Xatu
Zangoose$ 
*/#/^/&/$-These would be done together

New List, hopefully final. I'm a bit leery about Smeargle for the same reason as Ditto, technically it learns one attack.

 

[eric the espeon]

But it can get every move..
And not even close to all evolutions get extra moves as they evolve.

 

[DougJustDoug]

Stop posting about specific pokemon for evolution. This has been warned many times over. Post about the process, or don't post at all.

 

[ParadOxymoron]

I'm a bit leery about Smeargle for the same reason as Ditto, technically it learns one attack.

Ditto's not on the list? Well, yeah, then if Ditto's not on the list, then Smeargle shouldn't be on the list, either.

Not that it really matters, since noone would choose him anyway, but yeah. :)

 

[X-Act]

I'll chime in just to say that we should look at the CAP OU tier list and not the Smogon Standard OU tier list.