Duo Destruction - Awards!

[Heysup]

We are not assuming a last mon scenario and it can keep Roaring if the one-mon is your only counter and Hippo is not threatened by anything else on the team. What is it being roared to that's damaging it enough to make it Slack Off? Well that Pokemon needs to be included in the core.

It has nothing to do with being stupid its just that you have no other listed Pokemon that can deal with Hippopotas so it can freely Roar.

 

[blarajan]

I don't know why you're saying there's a lot of prediction in nailing Timburr with a counter. Timburr won't KNOW that Chikorita has Counter, nor do you use Counter before Timburr is at +1. Timburr will get to +1 since it can and then it will always use Drain Punch there, I guarantee it. That's because Giga Drain 4HKOes Timburr, doing 6 damage min each time. Timburr can't afford not to Drain Punch at +1 because then it has the chance of dying to a crit. (Giga Drain ==> Bulk Up, Giga Drain ==> Bulk Up, Critical Hit!) Anyone intelligent using Timburr would not risk this, and go for the easy victory at +1. Furthermore, you have to keep in mind the way this works. Giga Drain 4HKOes. Because of that, Timburr HAS to Drain Punch at +2 or less (if it gets to +3, then Chikorita KOs it before it gets to heals).

Timburr will use Drain Punch when it gets to +1, and then you use Counter.

But if you aren't convinced by this, RayJay, pair it up with an Unaware Woobat:

Woobat (F) @ Life Orb Trait: Unaware
EVs: 76 HP / 12 Def / 240 SAtk / 180 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Air Slash
- Psychic
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Roost

who can easily capitalize on its 4x resistance to Drain Punch to switch in on Timburr and OHKO with Air Slash. It can even survive if it switches into Payback after Stealth Rock. This will also satisfy Heysup's complaint, as it can force Hippopotas to stop using Roar.

 

[Ray Jay]

Sorry for the delay!

chieliee - Porygon + Slowpoke

While most people consider Trick Room a gimmick, at least these sets make sense and are defendable. Trick Room also is generally a good answer to Drilbur, especially since the core doesn't include any form of flinch to stall out TR such as Mienfoo.
Although furai reserved Slowpoke, he never folllowed through so it's OK. No one refuted it, would've preferred calcs, but 1 point.

Heysup - Hippopotas + Totodile

Looks good to me, Hippopotas is bulky enough to stand up to basically the whole trio most of the time, and be there a crit or another mishap you have Totodile. I approve, 1 point.

iss - Cottonee

Since you changed it to a set that's more viable, I am cool with it. I could see problems if they predict your Protect and go for a Bulk Up, but I guess that's what Cotton Guard is for. 2 points.

blarajan - Chikorita

I actually think this Pokemon is OK by itself. Your defense of how Timburr is played (Bulk Up -> Drain Punch) is accurate so that makes sense in my book. Furthermore, you basically have the win guaranteed once you get a Synthesis off against Timburr as you showed in your post. Even if Hippopotas were to Roar you out, you 2HKO it cleanly so there is very little threat there. 2 points.

Bonus Points:
Spent his 5k post on Duo Destruction: Heysup (+1)

New scoreboard:
iss: 9 (+2)
blarajan: 8 (+2)
Heysup: 6 (+2)
chieliee: 6 (+1)
elevator_music: 3
Dracoyoshi8: 3
corkscrew: 3
Nanoswine: 3
spuds4ever: 2
trakyan: 1

 

[Ray Jay]

Round 6 - np: What Makes You Beautiful - One Direction

So often, when you're teambuilding, the goal is not to beat a set but all of the sets a Pokemon can potentially run. This round, you must prove that your core can handle all of the "viable" sets that these Pokemon can run. Just what those are is up to the competitors.

Misdreavus @ ?
? | ?
evs: ?
-?
-?
-?
-?

Porygon @ ?
? | ?
evs: ?
-?
-?
-?
-?

Fun stuff:
-When posting your core, back it up with calcs!
-Assume Stealth Rock is on your side of the field, not theirs unless you include a Pokemon that can set up
-Keep it civil
-Have fun

If you reserve a Pokemon and then do not post its set and explanation within 5 days, it will go back up for grabs

 

[Chieliee]

reserving cm krow + something

 

[blarajan]

probs vullaby but idk yet ok don't rush me

edit: fk furai

 

[comatthew6]

Reserving scraggy because that's the easy answer. Posting calcs and set when I get home.

Set:
Scraggy (F) @ Eviolite
Trait: Shed Skin
EVs: 36 HP / 156 Atk / 36 Def / 36 SDef / 212 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Drain Punch
- Hi Jump Kick
- Crunch

Versus Porygon:

Versus Misdreavus:

 

[Heysup]

Reserving munchlax Grimer Stunky..... Timburr??. If I get desperate I'll probably just go Hippopotas + Lileep.

Hippopotas (M) @ Eviolite Trait: Sand Stream
EVs: 212 HP / 116 Atk / 180 SDef (23 Defense IVs to shut up the Download Specs Porygons)
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Crunch
- Earthquake
- Toxic
- Slack Off

Lileep (M) @ Eviolite
Trait: Storm Drain
EVs: 228 HP / 32 SAtk / 220 SDef / 16 Spd
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Recover
- Toxic
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Fire]


Competitive Missy sets: TrickScarf (Trick/Thunderbolt/Shadow Ball/HP Fighting/Icy Wind), NP LO (NP/Shadow Ball/HP Fighting/Thunderbolt/Substitute), NP Eviolite(same as previous, maybe with WoW), Defensive Eviolite (WoW/Shadow Ball/Thunderbolt/HP Fighting/Pain Split/Substitute)
Competitive Porygon sets: Scarf (Lol/Tri Attack/Ice Beam/Thunderbolt/HP Fighting/Trick?), Specs (same as scarf but Modest?), Defensive (Discharge, Tri Attack, Recover, Thunder Wave, etc), TR/Agility (Life Orb/All offensive attacks)

Vs Porygon:

All porygon are straight up walled by Lileep unless they are specs with Ice Beam in which case I go to hippopotas first to tank the Ice Beam and give sand storm and then stall out with Lileep. Trick doesn't work because I have Hippopotas coming in first anyway.

After this, Lileep can 1v1 any Misdreavus that he doesn't have to switch into with Giga Drain / Recover / Toxic.

Vs NP Missy:
Switch in with Hippopotas, survive anything, Crunch, we both die next turn via life orb/ss damage.
Switch in Lileep, Porygon (hardest to deal with here is Specs). Toxic, Ice Beam does 12 average (I heal 13), I Recover stall it out.

Vs TrickScarf Missy:
Hippo comes in, survives anything / gets tricked / uses Crunch and beats Missy and dents Porygon but loses.
Then Lileep comes in and stalls same as before.

Vs NP Eviolite Missy:
Switch in Hippo, 2HKOed at both +2 and +4 so I can Toxic first turn and Crunch the second if he doesn't attack. Either way, I die and Missy is poisoned.
Lileep Giga Drain first turn which would stop missy from being able to get an attack off at +6 (missy will have taken 2 turns of Toxic, SS, and Giga Drain(6)). After turn 1 I can recover spam basically to full health unless Missy sets to +4 and gets 2 attacks off (I'd be at 20 HP still).
Specs porygon comes in (hardest one to deal with) and uses Ice Beam (12 average, 15/16 for 14) and I stall it for 5 turns until I can survive 2 and use Toxic to help stall it faster. I'll survive with max HP, though low on Recover PP.

Vs defensive Eviolite Missy:
Hippopotas can Crunch / Toxic / Slack Off to deal with it as it pleases depending on the moveset. The ease of this battle depends on prediction but Missy doesn't win.
Porygon comes in and Ice Beams (can't get a DL boost because of my nature)
Lileep can stall after.

 

[Furai]

reserving cm krow + something

I take the inspiration for that

probs mandibuzz but idk yet ok don't rush me

Mandibuzz is not LC m8ie!!!


I'll look into this later on, if I actually have the power to write something (unlike last round X_X)

 

[blarajan]

Heysup...what if instead of a Nasty Plot, you switch into a Life Orb Shadow Ball after Stealth Rock?

236 SpAtk Life Orb Misdreavus Shadow Ball vs 76 HP/236 SpDef Eviolite Timburr (+SpDef) : 40% - 52%

Possible HP Damage: 10, 10, 10, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 13, 13

13/16 options will do 12 damage, so two hits and SR = 25 HP and you're dead.

Odds of you losing if you switch into a Life Orb Shadow Ball are 66%.

Furthermore, if it's an Eviolite boosting set, you would lose if you switch into the boosting move. Eviolite Calm Mind / Eviolite Nasty Plot are never OHKOed by a +0 Payback and can 2HKO with Shadow Ball after a respective boost (though Eviolite Calm Mind requires Stealth Rock).

252 +1 SpAtk Misdreavus Shadow Ball vs 76 HP/236 SpDef Eviolite Timburr (+SpDef) : 48% - 60%
Possible HP Damage: 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 15

Finally, what happens if you switch into a Scarf Misdreavus's Trick? Then, Porygon most likely beats you.

Timburr just doesn't do well against Misdreavus. I'll give you Porygon though. Offensive Porygon / Scarf Porygon / Specs Porygon are shit. I'm also really only going to be considering the standard bulky one, as that's the only metagame relevant and not shitty set.

 

[iss]

What are the limits of viable? One-mon counters simply don't exist here due to Trick. Most defensive Pokemon will be straight-up destroyed by Life Orb Nasty Plot Misdreavus with the correct coverage move. Porygon can Charge Beam down most Calm Minders. Hell, even Misdreavus can beat Stunky between Will-O-Wisp and Pain Split. Simply put, I really don't know if it is possible to beat this core with even two Pokemon due to the sheer number of sets they can run. It's not like the typical LC team counters Pokemon for Pokemon anyways; countering two Pokemon is done by having a multitude of options to counter certain sets. I highly doubt any true counters will be found.

(also Choice Scarf Porygon is completely viable what are you talking about)

 

[Brambane]

TIS VERY SIMPLE JA

Cottonee (F) @ Eviolite
Trait: Prankster
EVs: 196 HP / 36 Def / 60 SAtk / 196 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Sunny Day
- Memento
- Encore
- Giga Drain

Ponyta (F) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Run Away
EVs: 236 SAtk / 76 SDef / 196 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Flamethrower
- Fire Blast
- Heat Wave
- Inferno

First you switch in Cottonee and use Encore/Sunny Day, which ever is appropriate. Be sure to get up Sunny Day. Then you use Memento. Bring in Ponyta and SWEEP WITH FIRE BLAST/FLAMETHROWER/WHATEVER. Also, Choice Scarf Misdreavus can't KO with Shadow Ball even after SR, so you win there as well.

COME AT ME BROS

 

[Heysup]

Heysup...what if instead of a Nasty Plot, you switch into a Life Orb Shadow Ball after Stealth Rock?

236 SpAtk Life Orb Misdreavus Shadow Ball vs 76 HP/236 SpDef Eviolite Timburr (+SpDef) : 40% - 52%

Possible HP Damage: 10, 10, 10, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 13, 13

13/16 options will do 12 damage, so two hits and SR = 25 HP and you're dead.

Odds of you losing if you switch into a Life Orb Shadow Ball are 66%.

Furthermore, if it's an Eviolite boosting set, you would lose if you switch into the boosting move. Eviolite Calm Mind / Eviolite Nasty Plot are never OHKOed by a +0 Payback and can 2HKO with Shadow Ball after a respective boost (though Eviolite Calm Mind requires Stealth Rock).

252 +1 SpAtk Misdreavus Shadow Ball vs 76 HP/236 SpDef Eviolite Timburr (+SpDef) : 48% - 60%
Possible HP Damage: 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 15

Finally, what happens if you switch into a Scarf Misdreavus's Trick? Then, Porygon most likely beats you.

Timburr just doesn't do well against Misdreavus. I'll give you Porygon though. Offensive Porygon / Scarf Porygon / Specs Porygon are shit. I'm also really only going to be considering the standard bulky one, as that's the only metagame relevant and not shitty set.

I knew I was forgetting something, I can just put an extra point in HP I believe.

I never really thought of offensive Eviolite sets....I really don't see them. Here's where I wish "competitive sets" were more defined.

I'll just use my two Pokemon and beat every set run by every one of them.

 

[iss]

TIS VERY SIMPLE JA

Cottonee (F) @ Eviolite
Trait: Prankster
EVs: 196 HP / 36 Def / 60 SAtk / 196 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Sunny Day
- Memento
- Encore
- Giga Drain

Ponyta (F) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Run Away
EVs: 236 SAtk / 76 SDef / 196 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Flamethrower
- Fire Blast
- Heat Wave
- Inferno

First you switch in Cottonee and use Encore/Sunny Day, which ever is appropriate. Be sure to get up Sunny Day. Then you use Memento. Bring in Ponyta and SWEEP WITH FIRE BLAST/FLAMETHROWER/WHATEVER. Also, Choice Scarf Misdreavus can't KO with Shadow Ball even after SR, so you win there as well.

COME AT ME BROS

Trick Cottonee on the switch, switch to Porygon, attack if Encore was used, Charge Beam/Tri Attack/whatever if Sunny Day was used

gg

 

[Al_Alchemist]

Alright ok, I've been gone from this metagame long enough and this seems pretty interesting and fun.

I'll reserve Mime Jr. and Deino, I'll see if I can flesh out the reasoning within 5 days as well :P. Hopefully I don't forget I made this post...

 

[Ray Jay]

What are the limits of viable? One-mon counters simply don't exist here due to Trick.

Alas, it seems iss is upset he might not get 2 points this round

 

[Brambane]

Trick Cottonee on the switch, switch to Porygon, attack if Encore was used, Charge Beam/Tri Attack/whatever if Sunny Day was used

gg

Cottonee can still get up Sunny Day. Ponyta only needs two turns of sun to OHKO both mons, and now Misdreavus has no chance of speedtie. Your scenario is this:
1 - Misdreavus is in, Tricks Choice Scarf on to Cottonee on the switch
2 - You switch to Porygon, Cottonee uses Sunny Day because Encore would be dumb
3 - You attack with Porygon, I can easily bring in Ponyta who survives Tri-Attack/Charge Beam and lives through SR
4 - Ponyta outspeeds and OHKOes under sun

What you should do is use Thunder Wave on the switch, knowing the Cottonee wouldn't stay in, because on Sunny Day teams a paralyzed Pokemon is generally going to be useless for the rest of the match. Paralyzing Ponyta would still allow it to beat Porygon, but it would likely lose to Misdreavus. Then its up to Cottonee with Giga Drain to beat Misdreavus, which may or may not win idk.

With that being said, I could put Switcheroo over Memento, Safeguard over Encore, Beat Up over Giga Drain and Choice Scarf over Eviolite still beat the majority of sets I'd encounter in addition to this scenario. Whether or not Cottonee lives or not doesn't matter to me; Ponyta needs two turns of Sunny Day, that's it.

 

[iss]

Except, you know, Fire Blast does nothing to specially defensive Porygon.

Fire Blast: 10-13 (38.46 - 50%)

Porygon can just Recover stall out Sun and then kill you.

 

[prem]

notice: specially defensive porygon does not exist at all because then it cant check murkrow which is kinda one of its purposes

 

[iss]

Nah it checks Murkrow well enough with Trace.

 

[Heysup]

252 Atk Life Orb Murkrow Brave Bird vs 252 HP/0 Def Eviolite Porygon: 69.23% - 80.77%

Great counter.

Either way SpD Porygon is not going to be considered it's a stupid set. There's no Chandelure here to counter.

There is a pretty simple way for Dy8's core to lose though.....

If Missy uses Trick, then Sunny Day is used as Porygon comes in, there's a problem. If it's a LO TR porygon, it can set up and guaranteed OHKO with Tri Attack. If it's Eviolite it can TR and still dent Ponyta while Misdreavus can finish him off (will be faster due to Trick Room). If it's a Defensive Porygon, it can actually just weaken Cottonnee and spam Thunder Wave until it's at 4 turns, then kill him on the 5th ending Sunny Day. This is very shitty for Ponyta because it can't OHKO Porygon anymore AND Porygon can use Thunder Wave + Tri Attack to put Ponyta into KO range for Missy.

 

[Trakyan]

252 Atk Life Orb Murkrow Brave Bird vs 252 HP/0 Def Eviolite Porygon: 69.23% - 80.77%

Great counter.

Either way SpD Porygon is not going to be considered it's a stupid set. There's no Chandelure here to counter.

There is a pretty simple way for Dy8's core to lose though.....

If Missy uses Trick, then Sunny Day is used as Porygon comes in, there's a problem. If it's a LO TR porygon, it can set up and guaranteed OHKO with Tri Attack. If it's Eviolite it can TR and still dent Ponyta while Misdreavus can finish him off (will be faster due to Trick Room). If it's a Defensive Porygon, it can actually just weaken Cottonnee and spam Thunder Wave until it's at 4 turns, then kill him on the 5th ending Sunny Day. This is very shitty for Ponyta because it can't OHKO Porygon anymore AND Porygon can use Thunder Wave + Tri Attack to put Ponyta into KO range for Missy.

who uses missy in TR?

 

[Ray Jay]

who uses missy in TR?

Everyone, when you're using Porygon with Trick Room (read: offensive Porygon).

 

[blarajan]

posting mine in this post tomorrow

edit: screw you i said do it wednesday

 

[Ray Jay]

This is ending Tuesday night OK