CAP 8 CAP 8 - Part 13a - Non-Attacking Moves Discussion

[Gothic Togekiss]

Funny how a simply type change spell the different between broken and alright when it comes to Calm Mind and Recover. Personally I'm fine with CAP8 having a recovery move and Stockpile/Cosmic Power together on one moveset. Calm Mind I neither for nor against so it's all to fate to see if it makes it or not.

 

[Aerodactyl Legend]

Glare for allowed. Hardly an improvement, but I want to hit Ground types.

We're already pullin for Stun Spore.

 

[Olie]

Glare makes much more sense than Stun Spore here. Isn't it reserved for Grass types anyway?

 

[Stellar]

Glare and Stun Spore are virtually identical. There is no reason to argue for one over the other for flavor reasons because that doesn't matter. Both will go under the same category.

 

[Darkflagrance]

I feel that Safeguard should be unallowed, because it makes CAP8 completely immune to status of any kind (thanks to it and Shield Dust) for at least 5 turns. This is going to frustrate anyone who likes to abuse status, and since CAP leans more towards stall, status is quite prominent.

I would have to agree with previous posters that no one will do this, or succeed in the event that they do, because of 4 moves syndrome. No harm in allowing them then.

Safeguard/Refresh Allowed

 

[Ybbob]

Recover and all like moves should be Allowed, as with any boosting set, if you boost, you're stuck to your STABs and can get walled or phazed off easily and makes people choose one or the other for better type coverage. Also, people might want to run pure offense sets, as with Surf, Hydro Pump, Flamethrower, Fire Blast, Heat Wave, Overheat, Draco Meteor and Vacumn Wave people have a lot of options for coverage and an offensive set running off 112 base SAtk could inflict quite the damage with good coverage and powerful moves. Plus, it means people won't have to stick to Resttalking which is pretty atrocious on this or unreliable recovery like Moonlight/Morning Sun.

 

[BlueLime]

I like the idea of Baton Pass/Agility because it would help out the team at the same time it would open up sweeping capabilities. I don't think that this pokemon only has to be an all out defensive pokemon. Giving it moves like this would increase its versatility and allow us to fully use this pokemon's abilities. With sheild dust you don't have to worry about getting frozen, burned, or paralyzed by an attacking move and this would also increase your passing capabilities.

As long as I'm here I would to say that I agree with using Wish as an alternative to recover like pkmn-taicho321 said.

 

[Magmortified]

Considering that Stun Spore and Glare are the same, Glare would be better; it's a tie so we have to decide it somehow, flavour will do.

Or we could just allow them both and leave it up to the folks making the movepools. :P

 

[VKCA]

stun spore is better than glare, as glare does not hit ghosts

 

[pkmn-taicho321]

Voting that we should only give CAP8 Thunder Wave

Thunder Wave's downside keeps it from being too annoying and for the most part why would you need to paralyze most ground types anyways? The only one I can think of that isn't horribly slow is Gliscor.

 

[Penguino]

Voting that we should only give CAP8 Thunder Wave

Thunder Wave's downside keeps it from being too annoying and for the most part why would you need to paralyze most ground types anyways? The only one I can think of that isn't horribly slow is Gliscor.

You are forgetting about paralyzing volt absorbers. Especially jolteon. There aren't many, but there are enough to make glare/stun spore useful.

Glare/Stun Spore for allowed.

 

[Penguino]

stun spore is better than glare, as glare does not hit ghosts

But does stun spore hit grass types? Spore doesn't.

 

[pkmn-taicho321]

You are forgetting about paralyzing volt absorbers. Especially jolteon. There aren't many, but there are enough to make glare/stun spore useful.

Glare/Stun Spore for allowed.

Allowing Jolteon and Electivire to come in would make for decent checks. Rare as Electivire is EQ could do some damage to supportive sets. Jolteon sometimes packs HP Ice which will do decent damage. Stun Spore & Glare for unallowed.

 

[RBG]

The only stautus move that checks for type effectiveness is Thunder Wave. Glare and Spore still his ghost and Grass type pokemon respectively

 

[Darkflagrance]

But does stun spore hit grass types? Spore doesn't.

I've spored a Venusaur before, so...

 

[zarator]

The only stautus move that checks for type effectiveness is Thunder Wave. Glare and Spore still his ghost and Grass type pokemon respectively

If Glare hit Ghosts too, why this point (the ability to hit Ghosts) is pointed out only in the R/B/Y move explanation (on the Smogondex I mean) and not in the latter generations? I thought that Glare hitting Ghosts was one of the many "glitches" of R/B/Y...

 

[10fore]

The only stautus move that checks for type effectiveness is Thunder Wave. Glare and Spore still his ghost and Grass type pokemon respectively

You forgot toxic, poison gas, and poisonpowder, with them not working against steels.

 

[CyzirVisheen]

Okay, as of now, the following non-attacking moves are allowed, unallowed and controversial:

Allowed:
Toxic
Teeter Dance/Confuse Ray
Spider Web/Mean Look/Block
Double Team
Sleep Talk
Subsitute
Rest
Attract
Captivate
Protect
Dragon Dance
Thunder Wave
Magnet Rise
Charge
Knock Off
Growth
Roar/Whirlwind
Gravity
Rain Dance
Sunny Day
Pain Split
Safeguard
Mirror Coat
Haze
Psycho Shift
Mist
Counter
Curse
Fake Tears/Metal Sound
Heal Bell/Aromatherapy
Refresh
Moonlight/Morning Sun/Synthesis
Stealth Rock
Taunt
Amnesia
Iron Defense/Barrier/Acid Armor
Stun Spore/Glare
Meditate/Sharpen
Power Trick
Trick Room

Controversial:
Yawn
Wish
Stockpile/Swallow/Spit Up
Light Screen
Reflect
Cosmic Power
Roost/Recover/Slack Off/Milk Drink/Softboiled
Metal Burst

Unallowed:
Leech Seed
Calm Mind
Baton Pass
Swords Dance
Nasty Plot/Tail Glow
Agility/Rock Polish
Will-o-Wisp
Spore/Hypnosis/Sleep Powder/Grasswhistle/Sing/Dark Void/Lovely Kiss
Trick
Encore

Cyberzero will be opening the poll soon, to decide the fates of the controversial moves.

 

[Aerodactyl Legend]

I think people are mixing up Stun Spore with Leech Seed.

 

[Petope]

But moves like Power Trick and Trick Room what list are they on? They have been mentioned but I can't see them anywhere.

 

[Gothic Togekiss]

Metal Burst should be moved to Controversial. While it's true that Metal Burst does have the power to KO some potential checks, but so does Counter and Mirror Coat, hell they all do the same thing effect wise. Metal Burst requires less prediction but it's not some no-brainer move. You still need to prediction if your opponent attack or not. If you use MB and you foe didn't attack well then your surprise is reveal and they will become more wary when against them. MB isn't even have the benefit of being a negative priority move (ironic) so in order to use it to the fullest one would have to sacrifice speed thus making him/her more prone to attackers it wouldn't have to worry about.

BTW, wouldn't Metal Burst, Counter, and Mirror Coat be considered attacking move?

 

[tennisace]

BTW, wouldn't Metal Burst, Counter, and Mirror Coat be considered attacking move?

If the opponent doesn't attack, they fail, therefore they aren't a direct attack. They sure aren't a support move, but they aren't an attack either.

 

[Aerodactyl Legend]

If the opponent doesn't attack, they fail, therefore they aren't a direct attack. They sure aren't a support move, but they aren't an attack either.

It sounds a lil funny to call it a non attacking move though. But yeah, it requires damage to work, so it's not a direct attack.