How do you get to +2 and move before Lati@s outspeeds and OHKO's you? If Lati@s is your opponent's check to Breloom then he's not gonna let you get to +2 and having to predict with a 1 time use move is hardly ideal even if you somehow do get to +2 without Lati@s switching in.
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Pokémon Breloom
- Thread starter RufflesPro
- Start date
- Status
I said you have to predict on the switch for Latios and Latias. So that means they cannot counter you if you hold it. Definitely Check though. And it's better than nothing regardless.
And many single-use moves are used to check the most threatening pokemon on the other side. Almost every 2 teams have at least one of the things I mentioned.
Ah nvm I didnt look at your numbers that closely because you used +2 in your calcs and unboosted Dread Plate Fling + Mach Punch garantees a kill on 4/0 Lati@s already, either way it's a very gimmicky move that also leaves you itemless (which I suppose makes you a better Knock Off switch in but still...)
I highly doubt this is worth it overall, but I suppose it might nab a few surprise kills here and there.
um jellicent doesn't resist flying -_-
True, but it might work out, especially when your team is walled by Celebi or Aegislash, it's actually pretty nice.
That's my bad I meant Ice, changed it.
True, i haven't got around of trying it tho ...
And there wasn't a thread about it soooo:
NAME: Breloom
TYPE:
STATS:
60/130/80/60/60/70
ABILITIES:
Effect Spore: The opponent has a 10% chance of being induced by PARALYZE, POISON, or SLEEP when using an attack, that requires physical contact, against this Pokémon.
Poison Heal: HP is restored every turn while the Pokémon has POISON condition.
Hidden Ability:
Technician: Moves with a base power of 60 or less raise to 1.5 times.
Notable Moves:
Force Palm
Power-Up Punch
Bullet Seed
Spore
Swords Dance
Protect
Rock Tomb
Rock Smash
Mach Punch
OVERVIEW:
Breloom was one of the big threats in OU in Gen V, but the real question is, is it still? With the buff of Low Sweep (which is, ironically, bad for Breloom because of technician), with the nerf of Spore (grass types are immune), With the 6th new weakness, Fairy (Had Flying (x4), fire, poison, psychic, ice), With the buff of poison (Poison types are (will) be more common because of Fairy), with the slight buff of Fire (resists Fairy), and finally with something new resisting him: Also Fairy. With all those negative factors, some new good factors about him are there: Being a Spore/Powder abosrober, the access to Power-Up Punch (which is arguably better than swords dance), the buff of steel (Because of fairy you'll see more Steel types, and that's when his fighting comes), and lastly, a very a slight one but, the buff of Rock Tomb (which is now basically like the old low sweep I guess but rock). All those factors, make us ask this question: Is he better? Or Worse? How will that effect him? Will he continue to be (Arguably) the best fighting type in the metagame? Discuss.
POSSIBLE NEW SETS:
Scarf
Breloom @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 HP
Jolly Nature
- Force Palm
- Bullet Seed
- Rock Tomb / Stone Edge
- Mach Punch / Spore
Scarf is in higher demands: Mega Evos, Chandelure, Crobat, Noivern, and pokemons that are faster (without a scarf) but are not OHKO-ed by Mach Punch. Scarf is probably the most viable set because of the many complaints: Mega Evos and faster pokemon who KO. Bullet Seed for STAB, Rock Tomb goes into 90 power with Technician, Stone Edge is 100, its really your choice: Power or Accuracy and support for team. The last moveslot is for people who loves Spore, Mach Punch is Recommended. Force Palm is a must because it is the most powerful move on the set.
Sash
Breloom @ Focus Sash
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 HP
Adamant Nature
- Spore
- Bullet Seed
- Rock Tomb
- Mach Punch / Force Palm
Spore is always nice to put the pokemons that counter/check you (and are not immune to spore) to sleep, such as Aegislash. Bullet Seed is raw power and breaks subs and sashes. Rock Tomb is a huge move on this set because you can Rock Tomb + Attack to almost check most of the sweepers. Force Palm is nice for the power, but Mach Punch is recommended more as it bring Priority. This is the only set that Breloom affords to run Adamant as after Rock Tomb is outspeeds up to full invested base 113. Meaning outspeeding and checking Thundurus (Unless uses T-Wave).
SubPunch
Breloom @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 HP
Jolly Nature
- Substitute
- Focus Punch
- Leech Seed / Spore
- Stone Edge / Rock Tomb
Substitute because there are many new threats out there that not only outspeed breloom but resist Mach Punch and can survive it even after 2 PuP, Rock Tomb is definitely good there, to lower the speed of the poke or kill it, if it survived, you have it's speed lowered but you have your sub gone, not that hard to outspeed a poke that had it's speed lowered. Power-up Punch is there and nice to raise your attack, but Focus Punch is nice. Bullet seed is just nice coverage but you could also get rid of it for Spore or Leech Seed. Leech Seed + Poison Heal + Substitute outstall Aegislash without an Ariel Ace and a lot of other threat that can be outsped by 252+ Spe breloom. Rock Tomb is nice but without Technician Breloom is off better doing Stone Edge
Classic
Breloom Life Orb
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 HP
Jolly Nature
- Bullet Seed
- Force Palm / Mach Punch
- Spore
- Rock Tomb
Classic but instead of Low Sweep + Mach Punch it is Force Palm/Mach Punch + Rock TOmb.
Synergy:
Breloom Is loving the new Sticky Web, it will help a lot on his speed, if Sticky Webs is there, you might as well remove Mach Punch and put something that you feel more Viable. Jellicent is a good pokemon that Breloom can switch to, Neutral to fairy, resistant to Fire, ice, and Poison, and with great bulk. Bisharp is good too but it's weak to fire. Chandelure can be good too.
Checks & Counters:
Anything that is immune to Spore and resist Bullet Seed and Fighting- type moves and can wall Rock Tomb is a counter. Few sweepers are a check for the sash set.
check serebii for the egg moves
252 Atk Dread Plate Breloom Fling (90 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latios: 284-336 (94 - 111.2%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Dread Plate Breloom Fling (90 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latias: 258-304 (85.4 - 100.6%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
In any case Mach Punch will finish them off, so I guess the only thing here is to predict the switch correctly.
I do want to say that Leech Seed Poison Heal Breloom has been incredible for me. It's been a neigh unkillable staller for a whole bunch of recent games, and seems practically unfair against more defensive teams once Venusaur is taken out. I've been using the analysis set of Leech Seed / Protect / Drain Punch / Spore, and the crippling abilities are awesome. Can't do a darn things against Talonflame, Pinsir, or again Venusaur, but that's what teammates are for. With the defensive swing I've noticed on the ladder as of late (for reasons I haven't figure out; maybe people are tired of DeoSharp for a small bit), I have yet to play a game where Breloom wasn't key. Once you get yourself poisoned, which is not hard with Protect, Rotom-W is set up food. The rise of Pursuiting Tyranitar helps too, since Breloom can even take an unboosted Ice Punch from Adamant Mega TTar and recover everything back with Drain Punch, and all other moves are just hilariously tickle-like.
With Venusaur being such a huge threat to teams, though, many things are carrying Flying or Psychic moves to stop that, so Breloom is punished as well by things like HP Flying Keldeo. But the pros greatly have outweighed the cons in recent battles I've played. Poison Heal Breloom is not dead.
With Venusaur being such a huge threat to teams, though, many things are carrying Flying or Psychic moves to stop that, so Breloom is punished as well by things like HP Flying Keldeo. But the pros greatly have outweighed the cons in recent battles I've played. Poison Heal Breloom is not dead.
I disagree. Protect not only serves to ensure that my Orb is activates, but also is much more protecting (ha) overall than Sub is in most cases. With no Speed investment at all, I would have to take a hit and then set up a Sub, making me much easier to wear down. If I predict right and Seed a counter as the switch in, I take off more of their health by Protecting the next turn than I could if I had Sub. That's an extra 12% off Talonflame as it tries to Brave Bird me. That's another chunk of health off of Keldeo as it Icy Wind / HP Flying's me. Lati@s can't kill me with Psyshock this turn, and can't take hits as well now with the extra Seed damage (and both carry LO commonly, so Leftovers recover isn't there to negate it). The list goes on if I predict right and Seed everything. Sub doesn't let that happen, and overall halts my healing because I have to keep taking off 25% of my health, possibly after absorbing a move like Stone Edge or Hydro Pump. Yeah, it lets me absorb a hit, but to do what? Drain Punch or Seed that Talonflame / Charizard Y / Venusaur and immediately switch out instead of stall to infinity? I like Protect and think it serves me better.
Breloom forces a lot of switches due to Spore, so Substitute eases prediction and lets you get an appropriate move off on whatever comes in. It also lets you auto-win against slower Pokemon due to SubSeed.
Check out the Mirror Mola RMT for some replays of this Breloom in action and you'll see a ton of examples where Substitute was awesome and Protect would not have been.
Check out the Mirror Mola RMT for some replays of this Breloom in action and you'll see a ton of examples where Substitute was awesome and Protect would not have been.
While true, that one does run maximum Speed (for those looking for it, here is the RMT). I run no Speed; all my EVs are put into bulk to take hits better on both sides. I'll also point out that the analysis runs Protect, as to a few choice SPL players. It really does come down to preference, since one or the other completely changes your list of counters and safe checks.
I've been using 252 HP / 252+ Def / 4 Atk Breloom with Substitute/Focus Punch/Leech Seed/Spore with Toxic Orb and Poison Heal.
It's amazing so far because it can easily take SO much pokemons and i's great.
I fucking took out a Talonflame with it (Was behind a sub and went for Leech on the switch, he BBs I sub, he BBs I sub, I predict roost I use Focus Punch and BAM dead)
It's amazing so far because it can easily take SO much pokemons and i's great.
I fucking took out a Talonflame with it (Was behind a sub and went for Leech on the switch, he BBs I sub, he BBs I sub, I predict roost I use Focus Punch and BAM dead)
Ya know, I've been messing around with just an offensive Toxic Orb Breloom back from Gen 4 and it has been doing surprisingly well. Easily one of the best counters to Rotom-W so long as you're able to activate your Orb before you switch in and take a WoW.
Breloom @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Spore
- Seed Bomb
- Stone Edge/Thunder Punch... Iron Tail? Facade? Any coverage move you need fits here.
- Drain Punch/Mach Punch
The thing switches in on a lot of common threats like the previously mentioned Rotom-W, Excadrill, Tyranitar, and more, and can stay alive for most of the battle if played right with Poison Heal and Drain Punch. And of course Sporing something will let you rack up another turn of Poison Heal for when you're in a pinch.
252+ Atk Breloom Seed Bomb vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 270-320 (88.8 - 105.2%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
-1 252+ Atk Breloom Stone Edge vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Gyarados: 194-230 (58.4 - 69.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-1 252+ Atk Breloom Drain Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Gyarados: 168-198 (50.6 - 59.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Breloom Drain Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Excadrill: 408-482 (112.7 - 133.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Ice Fang vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Breloom: 214-254 (81.6 - 96.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
252+ Atk Mold Breaker Excadrill Iron Head vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Breloom: 178-210 (67.9 - 80.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
4 SpA Rotom-W Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Breloom: 93-111 (35.4 - 42.3%) -- 1.3% chance to 3HKO after Poison Heal
Breloom @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Spore
- Seed Bomb
- Stone Edge/Thunder Punch... Iron Tail? Facade? Any coverage move you need fits here.
- Drain Punch/Mach Punch
The thing switches in on a lot of common threats like the previously mentioned Rotom-W, Excadrill, Tyranitar, and more, and can stay alive for most of the battle if played right with Poison Heal and Drain Punch. And of course Sporing something will let you rack up another turn of Poison Heal for when you're in a pinch.
252+ Atk Breloom Seed Bomb vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 270-320 (88.8 - 105.2%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
-1 252+ Atk Breloom Stone Edge vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Gyarados: 194-230 (58.4 - 69.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-1 252+ Atk Breloom Drain Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Gyarados: 168-198 (50.6 - 59.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Breloom Drain Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Excadrill: 408-482 (112.7 - 133.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Ice Fang vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Breloom: 214-254 (81.6 - 96.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
252+ Atk Mold Breaker Excadrill Iron Head vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Breloom: 178-210 (67.9 - 80.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
4 SpA Rotom-W Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Breloom: 93-111 (35.4 - 42.3%) -- 1.3% chance to 3HKO after Poison Heal
That's really cool in theory but how does it switch in on Excadrill or Gyarados or anything besides TTar? Excadrill wins even if Breloom switches in on Earthquake, Gyarados wins even if Breloom switches in on Waterfall, etc. I like this in theory but if you're running Adamant max speed/max attack I'm wondering if LO or Focus Sash doesn't get you further. I don't know, I'm asking. Would be great to see some replays.
Obviously the biggest point you mentioned is getting that Poison Heal active first and then using it as a full-on Rotom-W counter, which is cool, but I don't agree with the points on Excadrill & Gyarados, since the threats you mentioned outspeed Breloom for the 2HKO
Last edited:
What are the 20 Speed EV's meant to outspeed on that set?
Other base 70s (that aren't invested), with a couple extra to account for speed creep. They aren't super important, though; they're mostly just leftover EVs from needing 236 HP EVs to hit 320 HP for maximum Poison Heal recovery. But since it's not really worth it to put it anywhere else (those 4 extra points don't really net any extra KOs if you put them into Attack, they don't help Breloom survive anything special if you put them into its defenses, and extra speed is always nice), I just dump them into speed.
Breloom @ choice scarf
Ability: Technician
Adamant/Jolly, 252 atk 252 speed, 4hp
-Power up punch
-Fling
-bullet seed/Mach punch
-Rock tomb/Mach punch
With aegislash gone this breloom increases in viability. The idea of this set is to outspeed what you need to with scarf and revenge them, then fling it when the need to be sanic fast is gone OR sweep with scarf power up punch.
This set makes a great lead and also as a revenge killer. PuP has around the same BP of force palm, trading the small paralysis chance for attack boosts, thereby making it stronger than force palm on the second attack. Since it is strategically the same to scarf moxie salamence, It's important to take care of hard counters(i.e. ghosts) before you click x to win. Before your sweep, if you anticipate a ghost switch in, fling your scarf at em and if they aren't outright OHKO'd, finish with rock tomb/ bullet seed. Then alternate between PuP bullet seed/mach punch to sweep what's left. Bullet seed for consistent STAB, maiming water types; chiefly rotom-w and quagsire. Rock tomb is for hitting opposing fire types like the Charizards, and Breloom's biggest counter, talonflame. Tbird resists both of Breloom's STABs as well as both of its own being SE against him. Thus rock tomb is very important to catch him on the switch-in as Breloom has no chance of winning 1v1. Mach punch can be substituted for either one, being very useful once the scarf is flung. However, you do lose out on the important aforesaid coverage. If you insist on adding it to the set, I reccomend getting rid of bullet seed, as rock tomb proves more useful by lowering speed and catching talonflame. It's basically up to what your team can, and cannot deal with. No rotom-w counters? Bullet seed. Getting rekt by charizard y, and getting outsped by everybody and their mamma's rhyorn? Rock tomb's your man.
This set greatly appreciates sticky web and stealth rock support, especially if forgoing rock tomb or going adamant. Even with a scarf, base 70 speed is abyssmal. This makes either galvantula or smeargle valued partners. Sticky web is more important, so if you don't want smeargle as dead weight, slap memento on him or just go with galvantula. Heatran is an excellent partner to Breloom; being resistant to all his weaknesses and elimanating grass type counters lacking earthquake. In addition, he mutilates fairy types being x4 resistant to their bullshit and takes care of breloom's biggest counter, Talonflame. A breloom/heatran/gengar core would be an excellent addition to a HO team, taking care of each other's checks and counters. Switching Gengar with Rotom-W would change it to a bulky offensive core. In addition, Rotom-w would give you two talonflame hard counters, and since they are EVERYWHERE these days that is by no means overkill.
Ability: Technician
Adamant/Jolly, 252 atk 252 speed, 4hp
-Power up punch
-Fling
-bullet seed/Mach punch
-Rock tomb/Mach punch
With aegislash gone this breloom increases in viability. The idea of this set is to outspeed what you need to with scarf and revenge them, then fling it when the need to be sanic fast is gone OR sweep with scarf power up punch.
This set makes a great lead and also as a revenge killer. PuP has around the same BP of force palm, trading the small paralysis chance for attack boosts, thereby making it stronger than force palm on the second attack. Since it is strategically the same to scarf moxie salamence, It's important to take care of hard counters(i.e. ghosts) before you click x to win. Before your sweep, if you anticipate a ghost switch in, fling your scarf at em and if they aren't outright OHKO'd, finish with rock tomb/ bullet seed. Then alternate between PuP bullet seed/mach punch to sweep what's left. Bullet seed for consistent STAB, maiming water types; chiefly rotom-w and quagsire. Rock tomb is for hitting opposing fire types like the Charizards, and Breloom's biggest counter, talonflame. Tbird resists both of Breloom's STABs as well as both of its own being SE against him. Thus rock tomb is very important to catch him on the switch-in as Breloom has no chance of winning 1v1. Mach punch can be substituted for either one, being very useful once the scarf is flung. However, you do lose out on the important aforesaid coverage. If you insist on adding it to the set, I reccomend getting rid of bullet seed, as rock tomb proves more useful by lowering speed and catching talonflame. It's basically up to what your team can, and cannot deal with. No rotom-w counters? Bullet seed. Getting rekt by charizard y, and getting outsped by everybody and their mamma's rhyorn? Rock tomb's your man.
This set greatly appreciates sticky web and stealth rock support, especially if forgoing rock tomb or going adamant. Even with a scarf, base 70 speed is abyssmal. This makes either galvantula or smeargle valued partners. Sticky web is more important, so if you don't want smeargle as dead weight, slap memento on him or just go with galvantula. Heatran is an excellent partner to Breloom; being resistant to all his weaknesses and elimanating grass type counters lacking earthquake. In addition, he mutilates fairy types being x4 resistant to their bullshit and takes care of breloom's biggest counter, Talonflame. A breloom/heatran/gengar core would be an excellent addition to a HO team, taking care of each other's checks and counters. Switching Gengar with Rotom-W would change it to a bulky offensive core. In addition, Rotom-w would give you two talonflame hard counters, and since they are EVERYWHERE these days that is by no means overkill.
^ Force Palm gets a Technician boost too, so it would be stronger than Power-up Punch.
Breloom@Life Orb
Trait:Technician
Ev's:252Atk.252Spd.4HP
Jolly Nature.
-Spore
-Swords Dance
-Mach Punch
-bullet seed
Trait:Technician
Ev's:252Atk.252Spd.4HP
Jolly Nature.
-Spore
-Swords Dance
-Mach Punch
-bullet seed
252+ Atk Choice Scarf Technician Breloom Fling (10 BP) vs. 28 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 56-66 (20.8 - 24.6%) -- possible 6HKO after Black Sludge recovery
Also breloom's hard counters aren't "ghost-types," which hardly exist in OU - they're other grass-types like Mega Venusaur, Amoongus, less commonly Celebi/Chesnaught. Revenge killers like Talonflame & Lati@s are another story, which you were much better off trying to Spore or Rock Tomb on the switch or on the guaranteed free hit with a focus sash.
& finally repeated Power-up Punch isn't outdamaging Force Palm until the FOURTH consecutive hit, which realistically, Breloom isn't achieving ever.
252 Atk Technician Breloom Force Palm vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Jirachi: 148-175 (36.6 - 43.3%) -- 98.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
3x = 109.8% damage minimum
252 Atk Technician Breloom Power-Up Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Jirachi: 99-117 (24.5 - 28.9%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 Atk Technician Breloom Power-Up Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Jirachi: 147-174 (36.3 - 43%) -- 97.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Technician Breloom Power-Up Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Jirachi: 196-232 (48.5 - 57.4%) -- 48.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
total = 109.3% damage minimum
which means you do LESS cumulative damage if you only hit once or even twice, and only break even at three hits in a row.
3x = 109.8% damage minimum
252 Atk Technician Breloom Power-Up Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Jirachi: 99-117 (24.5 - 28.9%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 Atk Technician Breloom Power-Up Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Jirachi: 147-174 (36.3 - 43%) -- 97.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Technician Breloom Power-Up Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Jirachi: 196-232 (48.5 - 57.4%) -- 48.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
total = 109.3% damage minimum
which means you do LESS cumulative damage if you only hit once or even twice, and only break even at three hits in a row.
Last edited:
- Status