Pokémon Breloom

[RufflesPro]

And there wasn't a thread about it soooo:

NAME: Breloom
TYPE:
STATS:
60/130/80/60/60/70
ABILITIES:
Effect Spore: The opponent has a 10% chance of being induced by PARALYZE, POISON, or SLEEP when using an attack, that requires physical contact, against this Pokémon.
Poison Heal: HP is restored every turn while the Pokémon has POISON condition.
Hidden Ability:
Technician: Moves with a base power of 60 or less raise to 1.5 times.

Notable Moves:

Force Palm
Power-Up Punch
Bullet Seed
Spore
Swords Dance
Protect
Rock Tomb
Rock Smash
Mach Punch

OVERVIEW:

Breloom was one of the big threats in OU in Gen V, but the real question is, is it still? With the buff of Low Sweep (which is, ironically, bad for Breloom because of technician), with the nerf of Spore (grass types are immune), With the 6th new weakness, Fairy (Had Flying (x4), fire, poison, psychic, ice), With the buff of poison (Poison types are (will) be more common because of Fairy), with the slight buff of Fire (resists Fairy), and finally with something new resisting him: Also Fairy. With all those negative factors, some new good factors about him are there: Being a Spore/Powder abosrober, the access to Power-Up Punch (which is arguably better than swords dance), the buff of steel (Because of fairy you'll see more Steel types, and that's when his fighting comes), and lastly, a very a slight one but, the buff of Rock Tomb (which is now basically like the old low sweep I guess but rock). All those factors, make us ask this question: Is he better? Or Worse? How will that effect him? Will he continue to be (Arguably) the best fighting type in the metagame? Discuss.

POSSIBLE NEW SETS:

Scarf

Breloom @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 HP
Jolly Nature

- Force Palm
- Bullet Seed
- Rock Tomb / Ston Edge
- Spore / Fling / Mach Punch

Scarf is in higher demands: Mega Evos, Chandelure, Crobat, Noivern, and pokemons that are faster (without a scarf) but are not OHKO-ed by Mach Punch. Scarf is probably the most viable set because of the many complaints: Mega Evos and faster pokemon who KO. Bullet Seed for STAB, Rock Tomb goes into 90 power with Technician, Stone Edge is 100, its really your choice: Power or Accuracy and support for team. The last moveslot is for people who love Spore, Mach Punch is good on it, but Fling is recommend to remove your Scarf and hit the Aegis out there

Sash

Breloom @ Focus Sash
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 HP
Adamant Nature

- Spore
- Bullet Seed
- Rock Tomb
- Mach Punch / Force Palm

Spore is always nice to put the pokemons that counter/check you (and are not immune to spore) to sleep, such as Aegislash. Bullet Seed is raw power and breaks subs and sashes. Rock Tomb is a huge move on this set because you can Rock Tomb + Attack to almost check most of the sweepers. Force Palm is nice for the power, but Mach Punch is recommended more as it bring Priority. This is the only set that Breloom affords to run Adamant as after Rock Tomb is outspeeds up to full invested base 113. Meaning outspeeding and checking Thundurus (Unless uses T-Wave).

SubPunch

Breloom @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Def / 4 Atk
Impish Nature

- Substitute
- Focus Punch
- Leech Seed
- Spore / Rock Tomb

252 HP / 252+ Def gives you very good bulk which can easily take hits on the physical side, an example of that would be Conkeldurr as Ice Punch does 58% maximum, but since you are faster you can easily Spore, and then proceed to Substitute, Leech Seed, Spore or Focus punch depending if he woke up or not, simple scenario which lets you COUNTER conkeldurr. Rock Tomb is good because with this set Breloom lacks a LOT of speed, so Rock Tomb might be considerable especially when you can check Talon behind a sub. But Spore is generally a better option because if you predict right, behind a sub Breloom can check Talonflame with a Spore.

Synergy:

Breloom Is loving the new Sticky Web, it will help a lot on his speed, if Sticky Webs is there, you might as well remove Mach Punch and put something that you feel more Viable. Jellicent is a good pokemon that Breloom can switch to, Neutral to fairy, resistant to Fire, ice, and Poison, and with great bulk. Bisharp is good too but it's weak to fire. Chandelure can be good too.

Checks & Counters:

Anything that is immune to Spore and resist Bullet Seed and Fighting- type moves and can wall Rock Tomb is a counter. Few sweepers are a check for the sash set.

 

[FlyThai]

Venusaur is a counter imo especially Mega Venusaur, it can absorb spore, take all its stab moves pretty easily, and retaliate with STAB Sludge Bomb

 

[RufflesPro]

Venusaur is a counter imo especially Mega Venusaur, it can absorb spore, take all its stab moves pretty easily, and retaliate with STAB Sludge Bomb

True, true, and true, let me edit that.

But hey, with the weather nerf. Venosaur Chlorophyll won't happen as much, and if sticky webs is there, Breloom can outspeed it, but no move will ever OHKO, so that is still a check/counter.

 

[FlyThai]

True, true, and true, let me edit that.

But hey, with the weather nerf. Venosaur Chlorophyll won't happen as much, and if sticky webs is there, Breloom can outspeed it, but no move will ever OHKO, so that is still a check/counter.

100% true, but it must be a Venusaur that runs sludge bomb. Because of Venusaur's 4 move slot syndrome i seen some sets without it. Without Sludge Bomb Brelooms walls Venusaur as much as Venusaur walls Breloom.

 

[RufflesPro]

100% true, but it must be a Venusaur that runs sludge bomb. Because of Venusaur's 4 move slot syndrome i seen some sets without it. Without Sludge Bomb Brelooms walls Venusaur as much as Venusaur walls Breloom.

Venosaur is sometimes with HP Fire.
252 SpA Life Orb Venusaur Hidden Power Fire vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Breloom: 250-296 (95.78 - 113.4%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Venusaur Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Breloom: 250-296 (77.16 - 91.35%) -- guaranteed 2HKO <--- Sub Punch EV spread.

A Venosaur without Sludge Bomb OR HP Fire is a failure Venosaur IMO, but without them, yes Breloom can wall it no prob.

 

[FlyThai]

Venosaur is sometimes with HP Fire.
252 SpA Life Orb Venusaur Hidden Power Fire vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Breloom: 250-296 (95.78 - 113.4%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Venusaur Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Breloom: 250-296 (77.16 - 91.35%) -- guaranteed 2HKO <--- Sub Punch EV spread.

A Venosaur without Sludge Bomb OR HP Fire is a failure Venosaur IMO, but without them, yes Breloom can wall it no prob.

Lol agreed.

 

[nikovan]

Guys, any Pokemon that did not receive a massive change should be discussed here:

http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/old-mon-general-discussion.3490455/page-9#post-4925803

Yes, Breloom has new things coming up for it, but mods are trying to keep the threads to discuss type changed Pokemon, Mega Evolutions, updated attacks and new Pokemon.

 

[Celever]

Guys... please please PLEASE use Wake Up Slap on this thing it has 60 BP... so a Low Sweep without the speed lowering but still really powerful.

 

[Snaquaza]

Guys... please please PLEASE use Wake Up Slap on this thing it has 60 BP... so a Low Sweep without the speed lowering but still really powerful.

Maybe Force Palm...

 

[Celever]

Maybe Force Palm...

That would work... thanks to your post I found out that Wake-Up Slap is 70 BP now anyway. -_-

 

[ss234]

celever meybe you should research the move before saying they are amazing when in actual fact they are shitty.

Anyway, loomer is still p good from my experience. Powerful mach punch is still stellar what with exca, greninja and just generally fast pokes errywhere(like blaziken), and its one of the better rotom-w checks in standard ou too, which is nice considering that shit is everywhere. Mega gengy, talonflame and aegislash shit on its life but that doesn't mean loomer is bad by any means. Neither like taking a spore much, and gengar takes quite a bit from rock tomb while talonflame is outright 1HKO'd afaik. Aegi basically hard counters though :[ But loomer is still good because manly priority + screws over rotom-w + spore is still gr8.

 

[TheEvergreenChameleon]

celever meybe you should research the move before saying they are amazing when in actual fact they are shitty.

Anyway, loomer is still p good from my experience. Powerful mach punch is still stellar what with exca, greninja and just generally fast pokes errywhere(like blaziken), and its one of the better rotom-w checks in standard ou too, which is nice considering that shit is everywhere. Mega gengy, talonflame and aegislash shit on its life but that doesn't mean loomer is bad by any means. Neither like taking a spore much, and gengar takes quite a bit from rock tomb while talonflame is outright 1HKO'd afaik. Aegi basically hard counters though :[ But loomer is still good because manly priority + screws over rotom-w + spore is still gr8.

I've been using Breloom a lot, and the only real problem I've been having is random Gourgeist. Aegislash is not the hard counter everyone is making it out to be, since it cannot OHKO unless it runs Aerial Ace, cannot lower Breloom's attack with King's Shield, and cannot stand up to repeated Bullet Seeds, even at +0. It also needs another Poke to absorb Spore before it can switch in at all. 9 times out of 10, when I've faced an enemy Aegislash, my Breloom has either worn it down or run right over the top of it with a +2 from Swords Dance.

 

[RufflesPro]

I've been using Breloom a lot, and the only real problem I've been having is random Gourgeist. Aegislash is not the hard counter everyone is making it out to be, since it cannot OHKO unless it runs Aerial Ace, cannot lower Breloom's attack with King's Shield, and cannot stand up to repeated Bullet Seeds, even at +0. It also needs another Poke to absorb Spore before it can switch in at all. 9 times out of 10, when I've faced an enemy Aegislash, my Breloom has either worn it down or run right over the top of it with a +2 from Swords Dance.

As crazy as it sounds not many Gengar have Sludge bomb so you have a chance, you can switch before he mega evolves to a steel type (to make sure) and as for Aegislash, well he's hard to tell because he has what you call 4 move slot syndrome, every Agieslash has King's Shield and everyone has Flash Cannon / Iron Head and Shadow Claw / Shadow Ball, the last moves is always either Rock Slide, Sacred Sword, or Ariel Ace. The latter is the rarer, so Aegislash won't be OHKO-ing Breloom and Spore passes King's Shield, SubPunch Breloom with Leech seed can outstall Aegislash, Aegislash is not a check for Breloom, Scarf Breloom can use Rock Tomb on Talonflame to OHKO it, if it isn't scarf then you're screwed (Unless it was a switch-in and you happen to use Rock Tomb) Gegnar yes is a check for Breloom, that's why you should switch right away so it won't mega evolve, the best pokemon to switch to is (IMO) Bisharp, resisting Shadow ball and Laughing at Sludge Bomb, Focus Blast next turn? Say hello to Sucker Punch.

 

[Jaroda]

Crobat would be one of the biggest counters. 4x resists both STABs and with Infiltrator hits right through those subs.

 

[TheEvergreenChameleon]

Crobat would be one of the biggest counters. 4x resists both STABs and with Infiltrator hits right through those subs.

Just about every Breloom is going to be carrying Rock Tomb now (superior coverage, same speed dropping effect that low sweep had, SE damage against Talonflame and Togekiss), so no, Crobat can check but not counter. The switch in just isn't safe.

 

[RufflesPro]

Edited the OP, Made Rock Tomb mandatory because it really is now, he meta game is clearer, Talonflame is everywhere. Also made Scarf the most viable set (too many new fast pokes + Mega evolutions) and put a new Sub set. Mainly b/c with a sub you don't need speed, take a hit and retaliate.
And like the above poster said, Crobat isn't a check, switching into a breloom is only safe by Grass pokes or pokes who resist all his STAB + Rock Tomb.

 

[Legitimate Username]

I'm mostly disappointed with the nerf to Substitute, because I can't frustrate people with the classic Toxic Orb SubPunch set as well if they're running Infiltrators such as Crobat, Noivern, and Chandelure ready to come in and ruin its fun. While Stone Edge can dent them badly, they can still switch in if they predict a Substitute and freely outspeed and KO Breloom.

 

[RufflesPro]

I'm mostly disappointed with the nerf to Substitute, because I can't frustrate people with the classic Toxic Orb SubPunch set as well if they're running Infiltrators such as Crobat, Noivern, and Chandelure ready to come in and ruin its fun. While Stone Edge can dent them badly, they can still switch in if they predict a Substitute and freely outspeed and KO Breloom.

Crobat, Noivern, and Chandelure still can't check breloom because if they switch into Breloom using Spore they will die next turn by Rock Tomb, if they switch into Rock Tomb they die (only if SR was there). If the battle starts with those three and Breloom, Only Scarf Breloom can stand a chance, but it's probably better if you switch

 

[TheEvergreenChameleon]

Crobat, Noivern, and Chandelure still can't check breloom because if they switch into Breloom using Spore they will die next turn by Rock Tomb, if they switch into Rock Tomb they die (only if SR was there). If the battle starts with those three and Breloom, Only Scarf Breloom can stand a chance, but it's probably better if you switch

If Crobat, Noivern or Chandelure switch in on Rock Tomb, they are outsped by Jolly Breloom even if it isn't carrying a Scarf, and will be KOed before they have the opportunity to attack.

 

[lmitchell0012]

According to serebii breloom is apparently in the fairy egg group this gen. Is it possible that he gets play rough as an egg move??

 

[Ckarasu]

Chesnaught destroys Breloom. Immune to Bullet Seed, resists Rock Tomb, cannot be hit by Spore, and does not mind Mach Punch. Probably good to put it in the counters section, as it is a hard counter unless you run the relatively useless Aerial Ace.

Did some calcs:

252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Chesnaught: 97-114 (30.59 - 35.96%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

252+ Atk Life Orb Breloom Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Chesnaught: 53-64 (16.71 - 20.18%) -- possible 7HKO
Just to demonstrate that Rock Tomb is useless on it, not even Stone Edge bothers it.

 

[TheEvergreenChameleon]

Chesnaught destroys Breloom. Immune to Bullet Seed, resists Rock Tomb, cannot be hit by Spore, and does not mind Mach Punch. Probably good to put it in the counters section, as it is a hard counter unless you run the relatively useless Aerial Ace.

I wouldn't call taking 30-40% damage from +0 'not minding'. Chesnaught makes a good check, but has to be careful switching in, since it is 2HKOed by Mach Punch after a Swords Dance, whilst being unable to OHKO in return with anything other than Aerial Ace (or Poison Jab if Banded). It's also slower.

 

[Ckarasu]

I wouldn't call taking 30-40% damage from +0 'not minding'. Chesnaught makes a good check, but has to be careful switching in, since it is 2HKOed by Mach Punch after a Swords Dance, whilst being unable to OHKO in return with anything other than Aerial Ace (or Poison Jab if Banded). It's also slower.

252+ Atk Life Orb Chesnaught Poison Jab vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Breloom: 263-309 (100.38 - 117.93%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Doesn't need Leftovers against Breloom, also has Spikey Shield to soften him up. Super hard counter, ahoy!
And, yes, Breloom needs those speed EVs to take advantage of Sticky Web or Rock Tomb against many of its other counters. And without the Attack EVs, it might lose out on some vital OHKOs. Breloom just can't beat Chesnaught unless it changes its moveset.

 

[TheEvergreenChameleon]

252+ Atk Life Orb Chesnaught Poison Jab vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Breloom: 263-309 (100.38 - 117.93%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Doesn't need Leftovers against Breloom, also has Spikey Shield to soften him up. Super hard counter, ahoy!

In which case, you yourself have no defensive investment, and can only counter if you have sustained no damage prior to switching in, since Breloom hits for 76-89% after a SD. Not to mention you're essentially facing mutual extinction, since the LO recoil is taking a further 10% off you, putting you in range of being KOed by a Magikarp's tackle.

 

[Ckarasu]

In which case, you yourself have no defensive investment, and can only counter if you have sustained no damage prior to switching in, since Breloom hits for 76-89% after a SD.

Uh, 252 Atk and 252 Def is what I was assuming. He had 0 HP investment in his defensive calcs, and same with speed.

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Chesnaught: 192-227 (60.56 - 71.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Yeah, so Breloom has to go for a 2HKO if Chesnaught comes in on it Swords Dancing. Meanwhile, Chesnaught just annihilates it with a LO Poison Jab and comes out on top.