With everyhing having (almost) any ability it wants, the power level is much higher, therefore legendaries being legal isn't that big of a deal
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AAA Almost Any Ability
- Thread starter Isaiah
- Start date
AnimaticLunatic
I COULD BE BANNED!
But they can not have almost any ability. They can only have one ability. The power level is not what is bothering me. It's just that we are kind of screwing with the point of the format.
Elvira
formerly bruised
Personally haven’t seen many legendaries be overpowered or broken, though there have been some run ins. So as much as I can understand your point AAA has so many suprise factors and resources to keep them from maintaining Uber level status.
im not really sure what you mean here, but they wont be "restricted" to one ability - theyll have access to almost any ability like any other mon. special cases like zamac are different since that directly goes against what cart allows. does aaa go against what cart allows? yes, but like any other OM, its decided by one simple rule and zamac having almost any ability is not decided by that one simple rule.
I'm out of OM Majors and recently have made a lot of AAA teams to snipe people from the ladder tour (mainly want to snipe ojr but got matched vs other players). Because of that, I want to share a few fun teams and some serious one I made for majors.
Specs primsea wake is broken so I decided to use Inteleon which is just as strong as Wake at spamming weather ball. The extra speed is nice to get the jump on stuff like Moon, Scream Tail, Ogerpon,... Inteleon only has one stab tho so it struggles into stuff like Iron Moth or Goodra-H, with scarf Wake those mus are a bit more manageable. I tried to get creative with the defensive core but just end up making it weak to Chien Pao so I don't like this team that much. Also a key thing to point out that will show up in every other teams of mine is Great Tusk, specifically Mold Breaker with Taunt. I think Great Tusk is just the best mon in the tier rn and it is almost impossible to make a good team without it. It is the only good remover in the tier since the other option Corviknight just does a terrible job at removing. Mold Breaker is also very nice as it allows you to do heavy damage into Fluffy Corv or Skarm wanting to switch in or EE Pecharunt that want to shut down Tusk. Taunt is great at denying healing from opponent's defensive mons like Corv or Skarm after they come in and take 40 from cc. It aslo helps denying spikes from Skarm and Deo-d, toxic from Mandibuz and Pecharunt, set up attempt from other Great Tusk,... Taunt is just like one of the best move to have on Great Tusk imo.
I saw this diancie set from ojr and thought it is pretty nice at shutting down set up attempt from Gouging Fire and Iron Boulder so I decided to give it a go. This is a experimetal team so I just tossed as much stuff I wanted to try out in this team as I can. The team's concept is a pretty fast pace physical base offense team. I have eject button Hoodra because I want momentum and also a Wake check. Thundy-T because I need a speed control ground immune mon. My idea was that this mon does a good amount to some of the relevant ground type in the tier like Great Tusk and Swampert, VA Corv is not as common as before so I don't really need to worry about that, Primsea is because I want some defensive utility but BoR could also works. After that it is just strong breakers and Tusk, not much to say.
I want to give Iron Hands a go because I think it has some cool niche in this metagame. EE helps it check Moon, Swampert, Great Tusk pretty well and then get a slow volt switch out into the broken wake. I have protect and drain punch because I want it to switch in a couple of time vs Chien Pao which is not the best idea since Chien Pao still does a billion and Iron Hands will have its lefties knocked off most of the time. I don't know what you would want over protect tho so it is probably still an ok option. The other mon I want to highlight on this team is Gholdengo. This was initially my desperate attempt at checking Iron Boulder cause that mon is so fricking hard to check but it ended up being better than I thought. With scarf, Ghold outspeeds almost all of the unboosted threats in the tier beside Deo-S so it is pretty good at revenge killing. It is also a nice late game sweeper after you have removed Swampert with Walking Wake. Adapt Shadow Ball is also darn hard to switch into after the regenvest is gone. A nerd named ojr will trick the scarf immediately because his team has double scarf but double scarf is cringe.
This is the team I used in majors play off and also the team that I think is the best. As I have said a couple of times, Walking Wake is pretty ridiculous to check right now and every teams just kind of get blown up by it so I want a solid Wake check. I remember Atha telling me a while ago about delta stream Corviknight to check Chien Pao and Iron Boulder and I thought it would work very nicely. I paired Corv with regenvest Iron Hands because I want Hands to scout CB Chien Pao. Hands is also good at checking physical threats like Moon, Dnite and special threats like Iron Moth tho it is not very good at that job. To round out the defensive core I have Scream Tail which is a very underrated mon rn. It is very good at checking threats like Deo-S, Great Tusk, Dnite, Wake, Iron Hands... while being pretty threatening offensively. Because of that, removing Scream Tail is a pain. Its speed let it scare out Walking Wake and its bulk combine with pixilate boomburst means Moon or Chien Pao can't revenge it. Your opponent most of the time will have to resort to switching back and forth between Corv and Swampert to stall Stail out which let you get your breaker in with some good plays. Not much to say about the last two slots so I'll move on. (also ironically this team is weak to CM stail but surely no one is using it)
The last team here is kind of a meme team but I had some funny games with it so I still want to share it. The eye catching part of this team is definitely Scarf Deo-S. The thought process behind this is that I wanted to try out Protean Deo-S. The problem is that I want a choice item but band or specs mean I will only hit hard on one side. So I decided to use scarf and invest all of my evs in atk and spatk, that way I can hit decently hard on both side. Even uninvested Deo-S still hits 396 speed which means with scarf it outruns all of the scarfer in the tier. Because of that, I decided to throw in Superpower and Knock off to kill unexpected Scarf Moon and Azelf. Scarf is also nice for webs mu too. Trick + eball is also nice to clear way for Archaludon and Scream Tail. The other weird mon on this team is utility dnite. I have always like Dnite on offensive team for its defensive profile since it can switch into a lot of stuff, scare them out and get a free roost. With the rising popularity of fluffy, it is pretty hard to pull off a sweep with dnite these days so I decided to go all in on the utility. First you have twave because yellow magic is broken and also helps Tusk a lot since most of the time, you will be paralyzing the physical defensive walls. Dragon Tail is nice to deal with cheese mons and to rack up rocks chip but EQ can be a nice substitute if you want a better time vs steel type.
Funny replay with this team: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9almostanyability-2049386150
That's it, have a good day.
Specs primsea wake is broken so I decided to use Inteleon which is just as strong as Wake at spamming weather ball. The extra speed is nice to get the jump on stuff like Moon, Scream Tail, Ogerpon,... Inteleon only has one stab tho so it struggles into stuff like Iron Moth or Goodra-H, with scarf Wake those mus are a bit more manageable. I tried to get creative with the defensive core but just end up making it weak to Chien Pao so I don't like this team that much. Also a key thing to point out that will show up in every other teams of mine is Great Tusk, specifically Mold Breaker with Taunt. I think Great Tusk is just the best mon in the tier rn and it is almost impossible to make a good team without it. It is the only good remover in the tier since the other option Corviknight just does a terrible job at removing. Mold Breaker is also very nice as it allows you to do heavy damage into Fluffy Corv or Skarm wanting to switch in or EE Pecharunt that want to shut down Tusk. Taunt is great at denying healing from opponent's defensive mons like Corv or Skarm after they come in and take 40 from cc. It aslo helps denying spikes from Skarm and Deo-d, toxic from Mandibuz and Pecharunt, set up attempt from other Great Tusk,... Taunt is just like one of the best move to have on Great Tusk imo.
I saw this diancie set from ojr and thought it is pretty nice at shutting down set up attempt from Gouging Fire and Iron Boulder so I decided to give it a go. This is a experimetal team so I just tossed as much stuff I wanted to try out in this team as I can. The team's concept is a pretty fast pace physical base offense team. I have eject button Hoodra because I want momentum and also a Wake check. Thundy-T because I need a speed control ground immune mon. My idea was that this mon does a good amount to some of the relevant ground type in the tier like Great Tusk and Swampert, VA Corv is not as common as before so I don't really need to worry about that, Primsea is because I want some defensive utility but BoR could also works. After that it is just strong breakers and Tusk, not much to say.
I want to give Iron Hands a go because I think it has some cool niche in this metagame. EE helps it check Moon, Swampert, Great Tusk pretty well and then get a slow volt switch out into the broken wake. I have protect and drain punch because I want it to switch in a couple of time vs Chien Pao which is not the best idea since Chien Pao still does a billion and Iron Hands will have its lefties knocked off most of the time. I don't know what you would want over protect tho so it is probably still an ok option. The other mon I want to highlight on this team is Gholdengo. This was initially my desperate attempt at checking Iron Boulder cause that mon is so fricking hard to check but it ended up being better than I thought. With scarf, Ghold outspeeds almost all of the unboosted threats in the tier beside Deo-S so it is pretty good at revenge killing. It is also a nice late game sweeper after you have removed Swampert with Walking Wake. Adapt Shadow Ball is also darn hard to switch into after the regenvest is gone. A nerd named ojr will trick the scarf immediately because his team has double scarf but double scarf is cringe.
This is the team I used in majors play off and also the team that I think is the best. As I have said a couple of times, Walking Wake is pretty ridiculous to check right now and every teams just kind of get blown up by it so I want a solid Wake check. I remember Atha telling me a while ago about delta stream Corviknight to check Chien Pao and Iron Boulder and I thought it would work very nicely. I paired Corv with regenvest Iron Hands because I want Hands to scout CB Chien Pao. Hands is also good at checking physical threats like Moon, Dnite and special threats like Iron Moth tho it is not very good at that job. To round out the defensive core I have Scream Tail which is a very underrated mon rn. It is very good at checking threats like Deo-S, Great Tusk, Dnite, Wake, Iron Hands... while being pretty threatening offensively. Because of that, removing Scream Tail is a pain. Its speed let it scare out Walking Wake and its bulk combine with pixilate boomburst means Moon or Chien Pao can't revenge it. Your opponent most of the time will have to resort to switching back and forth between Corv and Swampert to stall Stail out which let you get your breaker in with some good plays. Not much to say about the last two slots so I'll move on. (also ironically this team is weak to CM stail but surely no one is using it)
The last team here is kind of a meme team but I had some funny games with it so I still want to share it. The eye catching part of this team is definitely Scarf Deo-S. The thought process behind this is that I wanted to try out Protean Deo-S. The problem is that I want a choice item but band or specs mean I will only hit hard on one side. So I decided to use scarf and invest all of my evs in atk and spatk, that way I can hit decently hard on both side. Even uninvested Deo-S still hits 396 speed which means with scarf it outruns all of the scarfer in the tier. Because of that, I decided to throw in Superpower and Knock off to kill unexpected Scarf Moon and Azelf. Scarf is also nice for webs mu too. Trick + eball is also nice to clear way for Archaludon and Scream Tail. The other weird mon on this team is utility dnite. I have always like Dnite on offensive team for its defensive profile since it can switch into a lot of stuff, scare them out and get a free roost. With the rising popularity of fluffy, it is pretty hard to pull off a sweep with dnite these days so I decided to go all in on the utility. First you have twave because yellow magic is broken and also helps Tusk a lot since most of the time, you will be paralyzing the physical defensive walls. Dragon Tail is nice to deal with cheese mons and to rack up rocks chip but EQ can be a nice substitute if you want a better time vs steel type.
Funny replay with this team: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9almostanyability-2049386150
That's it, have a good day.
hey guys with aaalt cycle 1 just having ended i wanted to talk about the main team i used during this cycle as it is one of my personal favorite AAA teams ive built ever since learning this tier in AAAPL.
After not having played this tier since OMWC where my last team was a webs team I wanted to return to the tier with another offensive approach. The days of AAAPL where I use corv on every team are long behind me as im now more an aaa corv hater as its pretty overrated and doesnt actually do its job very well in my opinion. I will admit in the first few games i played until like 1400 or so i used a corv team but that was because i had no teams and i just got one from ghostlike . so thank you for that, its very nice having some team to start with so you can test the waters a bit and feel out the metagame.
My approach to building was quite simple at first. Im gonna slap on a great tusk because building without him is a pretty big challenge imo. nothing in this tier is as good in a game to game basis + its the best removal in the tier by a MILE. Then since I wanted to build pretty offensively I started looking for good offensive ground immunes which initially led me to thund but later on the process I completely reworked my team and used gzap instead. what these guys offer is a nice tusk switch in which immediately puts the pressure on them. because my team is so offensive I figured having a mon that can only switch in a limited amount of times will be good enough as I am also posing a massive threat at them back. In the end I found it hard to use thundurus, he isnt as good as he used to be mainly because the 111 speed tier isnt as special anymore as it was before with there being way less 110's running around i.e. decline of moth, ogerpons. I also liked iron crown as an offensive steel with scarf at first but ultimately i found it too weak. The real sauce of this team were other things; the original roaring moon set for example:
Roaring Moon @ Psychic Seed
Ability: Sword of Ruin
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Knock Off
- Acrobatics
- Brick Break
This mon can definitely strike a lot of good matchups but can also strike a lot of terrible matchups. In AAA we are so used to seeing Band / Scarf which are obviously super consistent and good but I liked this to change it up. One of the pro's of this set that it is so efficient at removing great tusk for offensive teams. As I mentioned before I was using thund initially as my switch in to it so having a mon that takes advantage of tusk and lures it in is pretty handy. Brick hits other darks like chien pao and opposing RMoon.
To follow up I also used this cool set:
Diancie @ Eject Button
Ability: Prankster
Tera Type: Rock
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Moonblast
- Encore
I honestly still think this mon is pretty good for offense, natural typing is pretty good in this tier with key resistances and a dragon immunity. It also doesnt let great tusk come in with that stab moonblast so its always gonna get up a lot of hazards and prankster encore is just a nasty tool to fend off a lot of stuff that tries to set up. I found Eject button to be the best item, I dont think u want to stay around much longer with like leftovers or smth, the button momentum is just rly nice.
Finally I also used this interesting set for my gouging fire.
Gouging Fire @ Air Balloon
Ability: Desolate Land
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Flare Blitz
- Outrage
- Morning Sun
He walls pert until the balloon is broken, u dont always need boots imo. getting set up sometimes is more important than the rocks weakness. thats kind of it tho, please try out balloon its better than u think in practice.
In the end though the initial build felt heavily flawed and inconsistent. I tried to fix it with running other spikes set up mons but they didnt really work. In the end I realised i fucking lose to opposing gouging fire if I dont play super cautious every time I face it and found out about prim. Upon finding out about specs prim I realised just how insanely good it is and realised this was gonna be the key to consistency with my offense that I envisioned.
After a good few days of the cycle I really started to put the pieces together and tried to blend a bit more "safe" ideas with more offensive ideas. Ive always liked AV Roaring Moon as I always felt like it was such a great offensive regenvester compared to most others. While mons like pert and mana are great at bringing in the threats, roaring moon still IS THE THREAT. even on a defensive pivot set fast knock uturn is always gonna be great at offensive pressure in all kinds of games. This mon gave me the mix between offensive and defense that I missed in my initial build and me more consistent and less play-making dependant than before. I also wanted to be more safe with my speedcontrol, going with not only 1 but 2 scarfers. one of them being the amazing scarf ghold. upon rejoining aaa a certain someone said ghold was like bad and not as good anymore which I found to be blasphemy. But there was some kind of truth to it. In a metagame where AV pert is on like roughly 30%? of the teams its pretty hard to get stuff done with ghold but that is until you trick it. With having 2 scarfers gholdengo often plays a pivotal role in how you want to offensively beat your opponent. In some more offensive games you really like being faster than you opponents threats that you cant revenge as easily with your other scarfer but in a lot of balance matchups trick easily disrupts the entire defensive backbone of the team. This also supports primarina a lot at breaking turning some 3hkoes into 2hkoes with their AV's removed. to add onto that AV on ghold is not even that bad in a lot of games vs mons like azelf / deo-s.
The next topic I want to touch upon is the place of tusk in your team. Tusk is a weird mon in AAA to me sometimes. While its great at spinning in this tier it doesnt really offer a whole lot defensively to your team other than a good dark resist which is pretty shaky when one of the premier dark types in the tier also has STAB on Ice moves. I thought to myself to just try out a different spinner but they all suck so then I realised I can just use cinderace. Cinder is the core of this team, it embodies the offensive nature mixed with just enough defensive stability to stave off your opponent. It is also a much coveted Fire type which I find to be important to have in most teams as fires are just so good offensively in this tier naturally. All in all this made it easy for me round out my key team to this cycle of aaalt.
https://pokepast.es/ff3131120406d2bc
After playing a bit more with this team on ladder, one of my fears of not being good enough into roaring moon became true. This mon is just too fast and too strong that you really need a good physically defensive backbone to it and that I lacked. I couldnt just play smart with resisted hits as they just did too much damage. I needed a good dark resist, so I needed great tusk again. This mon is too good, it really fits all teams. To me this just proves you need a really good reason to not use great tusk.
The 2nd version of this team has been tweaked so much with me still editing sets to this day even after the cycle has ended but I feel like its good enough now so I will share it with you all.
https://pokepast.es/052eb5e40be12e10
odd(?) stuff: roaring moon is just using dclaw and dtail in the last 2 slots, ive ran eq and edge on this in previous metas but I think now u want to hit gouging fire with dclaw and sometimes just hit tusk with claw on the switch to chip it quicker, dtail has a lot of appliances, obviously good for preventing set up sometimes but an underrated appliance is sometimes using it on a predicted corviknight uturn which can put them sometimes in awkward positions depending on the team and what u draw in with dtail. primarina has aqua jet and draining kiss last, aqua jet is sometimes just nice to pick stuff off its still pretty strong cuz ur using a primodial sea mon. draining kiss is really nice cuz prim struggles with longevity and sometimes the way to deal with it for the opponent is just attacking it and itll die quick enough. for example great tusk sacricifing itself to get a headlong rush off so you are in chien pao range or smth is now no longer doable for them. cind wants max hp for sure the mon is still strong enough cuz of desoland and stuff like surviving chien pao crunch from full is great.
note: knock off on gzap is untested in practice, this was drill peck before but I never clicked it in any games, it helps with removing helmet on phys walls and hitting ghold ofc. temper flare on tusk is untested, this moveslot can probs still change but I like it to hit corv and EarthEater Ghold but mainly just corv. Could also try supercell slam to hit corv but temper flare seems to hit more than just 1 pokemon compared to supercell. the added damage might be cool to have but you mainly click this move here to punish defogs/uturns.
main shoutout to ghostlike for teambuilding help and isaiah for tests and stuff this cycle.
threatlist (in VR order):
Bonus: https://pokepast.es/70798a8155d8e702
this is another team i used a bit this cycle + a htrode team which i am not very confident in if its good yet.
this team uses no great tusk as I try to use glimmora instead for hazard control which requires you to be pretty smart sometimes vs stuff like corv and ghold. its very experimental with another odd pick in fluffy empoleon who can act as a check to top tier physical metagame threats like chien pao and iron boulder.
The process:
My approach to building was quite simple at first. Im gonna slap on a great tusk because building without him is a pretty big challenge imo. nothing in this tier is as good in a game to game basis + its the best removal in the tier by a MILE. Then since I wanted to build pretty offensively I started looking for good offensive ground immunes which initially led me to thund but later on the process I completely reworked my team and used gzap instead. what these guys offer is a nice tusk switch in which immediately puts the pressure on them. because my team is so offensive I figured having a mon that can only switch in a limited amount of times will be good enough as I am also posing a massive threat at them back. In the end I found it hard to use thundurus, he isnt as good as he used to be mainly because the 111 speed tier isnt as special anymore as it was before with there being way less 110's running around i.e. decline of moth, ogerpons. I also liked iron crown as an offensive steel with scarf at first but ultimately i found it too weak. The real sauce of this team were other things; the original roaring moon set for example:
Roaring Moon @ Psychic Seed
Ability: Sword of Ruin
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Knock Off
- Acrobatics
- Brick Break
This mon can definitely strike a lot of good matchups but can also strike a lot of terrible matchups. In AAA we are so used to seeing Band / Scarf which are obviously super consistent and good but I liked this to change it up. One of the pro's of this set that it is so efficient at removing great tusk for offensive teams. As I mentioned before I was using thund initially as my switch in to it so having a mon that takes advantage of tusk and lures it in is pretty handy. Brick hits other darks like chien pao and opposing RMoon.
To follow up I also used this cool set:
Diancie @ Eject Button
Ability: Prankster
Tera Type: Rock
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Moonblast
- Encore
I honestly still think this mon is pretty good for offense, natural typing is pretty good in this tier with key resistances and a dragon immunity. It also doesnt let great tusk come in with that stab moonblast so its always gonna get up a lot of hazards and prankster encore is just a nasty tool to fend off a lot of stuff that tries to set up. I found Eject button to be the best item, I dont think u want to stay around much longer with like leftovers or smth, the button momentum is just rly nice.
Finally I also used this interesting set for my gouging fire.
Gouging Fire @ Air Balloon
Ability: Desolate Land
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Flare Blitz
- Outrage
- Morning Sun
He walls pert until the balloon is broken, u dont always need boots imo. getting set up sometimes is more important than the rocks weakness. thats kind of it tho, please try out balloon its better than u think in practice.
In the end though the initial build felt heavily flawed and inconsistent. I tried to fix it with running other spikes set up mons but they didnt really work. In the end I realised i fucking lose to opposing gouging fire if I dont play super cautious every time I face it and found out about prim. Upon finding out about specs prim I realised just how insanely good it is and realised this was gonna be the key to consistency with my offense that I envisioned.
After a good few days of the cycle I really started to put the pieces together and tried to blend a bit more "safe" ideas with more offensive ideas. Ive always liked AV Roaring Moon as I always felt like it was such a great offensive regenvester compared to most others. While mons like pert and mana are great at bringing in the threats, roaring moon still IS THE THREAT. even on a defensive pivot set fast knock uturn is always gonna be great at offensive pressure in all kinds of games. This mon gave me the mix between offensive and defense that I missed in my initial build and me more consistent and less play-making dependant than before. I also wanted to be more safe with my speedcontrol, going with not only 1 but 2 scarfers. one of them being the amazing scarf ghold. upon rejoining aaa a certain someone said ghold was like bad and not as good anymore which I found to be blasphemy. But there was some kind of truth to it. In a metagame where AV pert is on like roughly 30%? of the teams its pretty hard to get stuff done with ghold but that is until you trick it. With having 2 scarfers gholdengo often plays a pivotal role in how you want to offensively beat your opponent. In some more offensive games you really like being faster than you opponents threats that you cant revenge as easily with your other scarfer but in a lot of balance matchups trick easily disrupts the entire defensive backbone of the team. This also supports primarina a lot at breaking turning some 3hkoes into 2hkoes with their AV's removed. to add onto that AV on ghold is not even that bad in a lot of games vs mons like azelf / deo-s.
The next topic I want to touch upon is the place of tusk in your team. Tusk is a weird mon in AAA to me sometimes. While its great at spinning in this tier it doesnt really offer a whole lot defensively to your team other than a good dark resist which is pretty shaky when one of the premier dark types in the tier also has STAB on Ice moves. I thought to myself to just try out a different spinner but they all suck so then I realised I can just use cinderace. Cinder is the core of this team, it embodies the offensive nature mixed with just enough defensive stability to stave off your opponent. It is also a much coveted Fire type which I find to be important to have in most teams as fires are just so good offensively in this tier naturally. All in all this made it easy for me round out my key team to this cycle of aaalt.
https://pokepast.es/ff3131120406d2bc
After playing a bit more with this team on ladder, one of my fears of not being good enough into roaring moon became true. This mon is just too fast and too strong that you really need a good physically defensive backbone to it and that I lacked. I couldnt just play smart with resisted hits as they just did too much damage. I needed a good dark resist, so I needed great tusk again. This mon is too good, it really fits all teams. To me this just proves you need a really good reason to not use great tusk.
The 2nd version of this team has been tweaked so much with me still editing sets to this day even after the cycle has ended but I feel like its good enough now so I will share it with you all.
https://pokepast.es/052eb5e40be12e10
odd(?) stuff: roaring moon is just using dclaw and dtail in the last 2 slots, ive ran eq and edge on this in previous metas but I think now u want to hit gouging fire with dclaw and sometimes just hit tusk with claw on the switch to chip it quicker, dtail has a lot of appliances, obviously good for preventing set up sometimes but an underrated appliance is sometimes using it on a predicted corviknight uturn which can put them sometimes in awkward positions depending on the team and what u draw in with dtail. primarina has aqua jet and draining kiss last, aqua jet is sometimes just nice to pick stuff off its still pretty strong cuz ur using a primodial sea mon. draining kiss is really nice cuz prim struggles with longevity and sometimes the way to deal with it for the opponent is just attacking it and itll die quick enough. for example great tusk sacricifing itself to get a headlong rush off so you are in chien pao range or smth is now no longer doable for them. cind wants max hp for sure the mon is still strong enough cuz of desoland and stuff like surviving chien pao crunch from full is great.
note: knock off on gzap is untested in practice, this was drill peck before but I never clicked it in any games, it helps with removing helmet on phys walls and hitting ghold ofc. temper flare on tusk is untested, this moveslot can probs still change but I like it to hit corv and EarthEater Ghold but mainly just corv. Could also try supercell slam to hit corv but temper flare seems to hit more than just 1 pokemon compared to supercell. the added damage might be cool to have but you mainly click this move here to punish defogs/uturns.
main shoutout to ghostlike for teambuilding help and isaiah for tests and stuff this cycle.
threatlist (in VR order):
azelf: checked by RM and ghold
ghold: checked by RM and cind
gouging: checked by prim, rm (if no dragon move kind of), great tusk (at high health), revenging with scarfers
tusk: gzap, own tusk, not letting it in much with RM, wisping it with cind, smart play with primarina
RM: u have 4 dark resists
pao: lowkey prediction reliant but in practice it doesnt get that much room to wreak havoc.
deo-s: same as azelf
boulder: ghold (dont get outplayed)
moth: RM, prim, cind
gzap: ghold (not if scrappy), same kind of deal as pao it doesnt get that much room in practice from my experience.
barra: cind, even tho cind is shaky this mon is really not that great right now imo and barely even seen from my experience.
Ceru: tusk and RM but in reality this mon always needs to be beaten by offensive play
dnite: tusk, ghold
htrode: RM
enam: is this mon even used rn? still checked by ghold and cind (not if wbb ofc)
tran: rm, prim, cind
wellspring: cind, rm
stail: ghold, cind
wake: prim (isnt actually a good water resist), so also RM and cind kinda, predict reliant
zap: RM, cind kinda if its primsea
gar: RM
cornerstone: ghold
heartflame: cind, RM (this mon is nowhere to be seen anymore other fires are just better rn)
shocks: RM, sometimes a cheeky volt block with tusk
slither: ghold(not if scrappy), gzap, tusk, prim (not if sor)
volcarona: at +1 this mon is very hard to check u need to prevent it from getting out of hand but sometimes your counterplay can be cind, prima, RM, gzap (force tie) in practice this mon is often more manageable a lot of them dont run qd fire move buzz psy anymore which is the main threat for this team cuz the need of giga drain rn for pert.
ghold: checked by RM and cind
gouging: checked by prim, rm (if no dragon move kind of), great tusk (at high health), revenging with scarfers
tusk: gzap, own tusk, not letting it in much with RM, wisping it with cind, smart play with primarina
RM: u have 4 dark resists
pao: lowkey prediction reliant but in practice it doesnt get that much room to wreak havoc.
deo-s: same as azelf
boulder: ghold (dont get outplayed)
moth: RM, prim, cind
gzap: ghold (not if scrappy), same kind of deal as pao it doesnt get that much room in practice from my experience.
barra: cind, even tho cind is shaky this mon is really not that great right now imo and barely even seen from my experience.
Ceru: tusk and RM but in reality this mon always needs to be beaten by offensive play
dnite: tusk, ghold
htrode: RM
enam: is this mon even used rn? still checked by ghold and cind (not if wbb ofc)
tran: rm, prim, cind
wellspring: cind, rm
stail: ghold, cind
wake: prim (isnt actually a good water resist), so also RM and cind kinda, predict reliant
zap: RM, cind kinda if its primsea
gar: RM
cornerstone: ghold
heartflame: cind, RM (this mon is nowhere to be seen anymore other fires are just better rn)
shocks: RM, sometimes a cheeky volt block with tusk
slither: ghold(not if scrappy), gzap, tusk, prim (not if sor)
volcarona: at +1 this mon is very hard to check u need to prevent it from getting out of hand but sometimes your counterplay can be cind, prima, RM, gzap (force tie) in practice this mon is often more manageable a lot of them dont run qd fire move buzz psy anymore which is the main threat for this team cuz the need of giga drain rn for pert.
Bonus: https://pokepast.es/70798a8155d8e702
this is another team i used a bit this cycle + a htrode team which i am not very confident in if its good yet.
this team uses no great tusk as I try to use glimmora instead for hazard control which requires you to be pretty smart sometimes vs stuff like corv and ghold. its very experimental with another odd pick in fluffy empoleon who can act as a check to top tier physical metagame threats like chien pao and iron boulder.
I just did the AAALT cycle 1 and wanted to teamdump the many teams i used. Im pretty happy i was able to make so many teams during it even if some are worse than others without obsessing over making them "perfect". The main goal was experimentation and fun, and because of this now i have a better or renewed understanding of some things in the metagame; Rather than spamming one same "good" team. Was more fun this way than tryharding.
This was the first one at the beginning of the process, at the time primarina and iron hands were of unknown quality, and i wanted to explore them for myself. This team has some older aspects of my building, with the Deo-S and Heatran. After this i started dropping Heatran a lot more, as it hates the WBB meta gouging fire has created, and Primarina largely fulfills alot of the same defensive roles. Deo-s however is still a beast (top5 mon atleast). I also wanted to try out Zapdos, and used Giagantic mglo set. Sorry, it was pretty very mid. Zapdos as a whole just does not matchup well into the new mons. Regenvest Iron hands performed okay, but the lack of move selection and volt blocking was kinda meh. Was also my first time trying out SFLO Deoxys, not a fan.
I wanted to make a team with SD Iron Hands and Specs Primarina inspired by Isaiah . Very good mons. The rest is pretty basic, Specs Psysurge Deoxys-Speed my beloved. Just a solid regular kind of balanced team.
I felt like building around Ceruledge. Cb is the good set, dont use sd. Cb ohkos swampert from full giving you actual opportunities to come in. Kills mostly everythingish if you predict enough times. No knock off allowed on the team sucks though. Big fan of adamant scrappy scarf tusk, the only one i put on teams nowadays. The rest are very hard to fit onto stuff for me. Barraskewda good
Lando set is neat.
Wanted to build with Dragonite again. Will build a better version later. The Sandy Shocks set is quite funny.
Gengar is pretty good rn. Lots of mono Iron Defense Body Press mons to come in for free on. The tspikes gimmick wasnt too successful but Gengar itself performed well. Garchomp was originally an Archaludon. Regenvest Prima is pretty awkward but felt better than Iron Hands. Heatran is such a nuisance for it though. Sometimes Regen Prima just walls the entire entire opposing team. Nice Specs Walking Wake + Band Chien Pao core.
Hope you get any kind of value out of this
This was the first one at the beginning of the process, at the time primarina and iron hands were of unknown quality, and i wanted to explore them for myself. This team has some older aspects of my building, with the Deo-S and Heatran. After this i started dropping Heatran a lot more, as it hates the WBB meta gouging fire has created, and Primarina largely fulfills alot of the same defensive roles. Deo-s however is still a beast (top5 mon atleast). I also wanted to try out Zapdos, and used Giagantic mglo set. Sorry, it was pretty very mid. Zapdos as a whole just does not matchup well into the new mons. Regenvest Iron hands performed okay, but the lack of move selection and volt blocking was kinda meh. Was also my first time trying out SFLO Deoxys, not a fan.
I wanted to make a team with SD Iron Hands and Specs Primarina inspired by Isaiah . Very good mons. The rest is pretty basic, Specs Psysurge Deoxys-Speed my beloved. Just a solid regular kind of balanced team.
I felt like building around Ceruledge. Cb is the good set, dont use sd. Cb ohkos swampert from full giving you actual opportunities to come in. Kills mostly everythingish if you predict enough times. No knock off allowed on the team sucks though. Big fan of adamant scrappy scarf tusk, the only one i put on teams nowadays. The rest are very hard to fit onto stuff for me. Barraskewda good
Lando set is neat.
Wanted to build with Dragonite again. Will build a better version later. The Sandy Shocks set is quite funny.
Gengar is pretty good rn. Lots of mono Iron Defense Body Press mons to come in for free on. The tspikes gimmick wasnt too successful but Gengar itself performed well. Garchomp was originally an Archaludon. Regenvest Prima is pretty awkward but felt better than Iron Hands. Heatran is such a nuisance for it though. Sometimes Regen Prima just walls the entire entire opposing team. Nice Specs Walking Wake + Band Chien Pao core.
Hope you get any kind of value out of this
After finishing the cycle and sus test I also wanted to share some of the teams I used during this time. Lots of the concepts/structures are very similar but play a bit different/have different goals in mind. I really only laddered seriously the first few days and then hopped on to fight decay or see if I can boost up a little more (this did not work and I should've just let the acc decay). The other times I would hop on some other accounts and just have fun bc the ladder was pretty active.
I really liked ghostlike idea of EE Weezing they had posted a little bit ago (as well as the triple attack heatran they used to smack me on ladder but that will show up later) and wanted to build with it. Fluffy corv and scarf moon will be a recurring trend throughout these builds, as corv is just a blanket check to so many things and moon is some of the best speed control while maintaining insane power levels, is also able to revenge a +1 gouging pretty consistently. I had a bit of a Ting Lu kick during the past two weeks, switched between regen and mg. Regen on this allows it to have longevity it otherwise struggles to have. Lu also outspeeds min speed corv by one so rocks + ruination + taunt shuts it down pretty nicely. Obviously still struggles against flyings but wasting some roost pp's as well as denying defog was very nice. Was running turboblaze gouging, as it allows it to beat its would be counters in WBB Corv/skarm, ignore fluffy, but unfortunately is walled by primarina. Primarina was there as a soft check to gouging + chien.
This team expanded on the first, and looked to patch up some of gouging's harder mu's with Ogerpon-cornerstone. I was still running turboblaze but honestly should have run something like mglo or desoland as Ogerpon was there to clear out things such as corv, skarm, prim, etc. Oger-C honestly feels better to me than boulder, as ivy cudgel does more damage, makes no contact, and you don't have to run LO. Fluffy corv being everywhere this feels like a huge plus, although 350 speed leaves much to be desired. I switched up Ting lu to mg as hazards are very annoying for it, had to swap out taunt for protect for scouting, lefties recovery, and overall longevity. This set could be exploited but again it still got the job done nicely. Manaphy spread allows it to take on chien as well as wake, two pretty big threats in the meta rn. Been running eball over ice beam recently because of pert/it lets u win the 1v1 against opposing manas.
At this point I wanted to run dnite as thing is still a monster, and I was reading through the gholdengo suspect thread and saw Tea Guzzler's post, a set of e-speed/eq/tbolt/roost. tbolt solves the issue of corv always wanting to come in on dnite, especially since many are running fluffy/wbb, not accounting for tbolt dnite. I did change up the EVs as max atk and speed didn't seem the best in the current meta. I think dnite does not need to be a setup sweeper in order to be successful, as LO + aerilate + 134/100 atk spatk allow it to hit very hard without set-up. Roost solves the longevity issue of LO + Hazard chip (although would not advise to switch when rocks are up unless you must) and takes advantage of those thinking it is 4 attacks/on switches. 80 spatk allows for a guaranteed 2HKO on corv after rocks or a roll very heavily (96.1% chance) in your favor after lefties. 112 speed allows one to outspeed random 220s, and the rest just went into HP to make up for some of the bulk lost for running naughty nature. Isn't the easiest to pilot and takes getting reads/using e-speed correctly but it has been a great late game cleaner/surprise factor for me. Heatran and pert make for a great spdef backbone, as heatran covers swamperts grass weakness and psychic neutrality, two pretty common ways to wear down/take-out pert. I haven't seen primsea zap too much in the current meta, and wanted to see if it could still work. I think it is much more niche and not the best unfortunately, but it still was a fun mon to use. Invested to outspeed adamant ceruledge and 16+ spatk allows for weather ball to OHKO. I think my favorite thing ab this zap however was that it threatened big hurricanes despite not having it, and was able to pivot out on switches because of this.
Adaptability CB Great Tusk hits like a truck. I like it more than scrappy for the simple fact that you do more damage and knock threatens ghosts immensely (and I have been seeing more WBB gholds than EE recently so headlong decimates that). I tried scarf but felt it wasn't really hitting the speed tier I want a scarfer to be at, and was losing out on significant damage that CB brings. I want to run adamant on it but timid allows one to speed tie with other max tusks as well as outspeed non-boosted gouging. I revisited the weezing-g and found that Overqwil fulfilled a similar role, and had a better defensive typing as EE + dark/poison have great synergy for each others weaknesses. Is it good? Not really, but again it's fun so I liked it. Scarf Wake is scarf wake, it does insane damage and provides great speed control. In general I prefer scarf over specs due to wake being at 348 speed, kind of an awkward speed tier. Ice beam on pert allows for special coverage, and ice hits more things than surf does while doing somewhat similar damage.
A combo of all the mons above, wanted to run a triple choice team and this is what it is. Just nuking everything, it's fun.
Over the past week I would say my opinions on gouging have changed, don't see it nearly as much anymore as so many teams are prepping for it, and I don't have to slot in a WBB mon or a mon dedicated to beating it up (many times just feels like an added benefit of the mon). It having to setup hinders it significantly and the defensive variants, while annoying, are nowhere near as threatening. Opinions on chien haven't really changed but maybe with time they will as well, idk.
Also ended up getting 4 accounts in the top 10 as well, which is always fun.
Cycle Acc
Currently sitting a bit higher rn as this is from a day or two ago but yea u get the point
I really liked ghostlike idea of EE Weezing they had posted a little bit ago (as well as the triple attack heatran they used to smack me on ladder but that will show up later) and wanted to build with it. Fluffy corv and scarf moon will be a recurring trend throughout these builds, as corv is just a blanket check to so many things and moon is some of the best speed control while maintaining insane power levels, is also able to revenge a +1 gouging pretty consistently. I had a bit of a Ting Lu kick during the past two weeks, switched between regen and mg. Regen on this allows it to have longevity it otherwise struggles to have. Lu also outspeeds min speed corv by one so rocks + ruination + taunt shuts it down pretty nicely. Obviously still struggles against flyings but wasting some roost pp's as well as denying defog was very nice. Was running turboblaze gouging, as it allows it to beat its would be counters in WBB Corv/skarm, ignore fluffy, but unfortunately is walled by primarina. Primarina was there as a soft check to gouging + chien.
This team expanded on the first, and looked to patch up some of gouging's harder mu's with Ogerpon-cornerstone. I was still running turboblaze but honestly should have run something like mglo or desoland as Ogerpon was there to clear out things such as corv, skarm, prim, etc. Oger-C honestly feels better to me than boulder, as ivy cudgel does more damage, makes no contact, and you don't have to run LO. Fluffy corv being everywhere this feels like a huge plus, although 350 speed leaves much to be desired. I switched up Ting lu to mg as hazards are very annoying for it, had to swap out taunt for protect for scouting, lefties recovery, and overall longevity. This set could be exploited but again it still got the job done nicely. Manaphy spread allows it to take on chien as well as wake, two pretty big threats in the meta rn. Been running eball over ice beam recently because of pert/it lets u win the 1v1 against opposing manas.
252 SpA Choice Specs Walking Wake Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 120+ SpD Assault Vest Manaphy: 168-198 (41.5 - 49%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Sword of Ruin Chien-Pao Crunch vs. 252 HP / 136 Def Manaphy: 237-280 (58.6 - 69.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Sword of Ruin Chien-Pao Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 136 Def Manaphy: 126-149 (31.1 - 36.8%) -- 76.4% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Sword of Ruin Chien-Pao Crunch vs. 252 HP / 136 Def Manaphy: 237-280 (58.6 - 69.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Sword of Ruin Chien-Pao Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 136 Def Manaphy: 126-149 (31.1 - 36.8%) -- 76.4% chance to 3HKO
At this point I wanted to run dnite as thing is still a monster, and I was reading through the gholdengo suspect thread and saw Tea Guzzler's post, a set of e-speed/eq/tbolt/roost. tbolt solves the issue of corv always wanting to come in on dnite, especially since many are running fluffy/wbb, not accounting for tbolt dnite. I did change up the EVs as max atk and speed didn't seem the best in the current meta. I think dnite does not need to be a setup sweeper in order to be successful, as LO + aerilate + 134/100 atk spatk allow it to hit very hard without set-up. Roost solves the longevity issue of LO + Hazard chip (although would not advise to switch when rocks are up unless you must) and takes advantage of those thinking it is 4 attacks/on switches. 80 spatk allows for a guaranteed 2HKO on corv after rocks or a roll very heavily (96.1% chance) in your favor after lefties. 112 speed allows one to outspeed random 220s, and the rest just went into HP to make up for some of the bulk lost for running naughty nature. Isn't the easiest to pilot and takes getting reads/using e-speed correctly but it has been a great late game cleaner/surprise factor for me. Heatran and pert make for a great spdef backbone, as heatran covers swamperts grass weakness and psychic neutrality, two pretty common ways to wear down/take-out pert. I haven't seen primsea zap too much in the current meta, and wanted to see if it could still work. I think it is much more niche and not the best unfortunately, but it still was a fun mon to use. Invested to outspeed adamant ceruledge and 16+ spatk allows for weather ball to OHKO. I think my favorite thing ab this zap however was that it threatened big hurricanes despite not having it, and was able to pivot out on switches because of this.
Adaptability CB Great Tusk hits like a truck. I like it more than scrappy for the simple fact that you do more damage and knock threatens ghosts immensely (and I have been seeing more WBB gholds than EE recently so headlong decimates that). I tried scarf but felt it wasn't really hitting the speed tier I want a scarfer to be at, and was losing out on significant damage that CB brings. I want to run adamant on it but timid allows one to speed tie with other max tusks as well as outspeed non-boosted gouging. I revisited the weezing-g and found that Overqwil fulfilled a similar role, and had a better defensive typing as EE + dark/poison have great synergy for each others weaknesses. Is it good? Not really, but again it's fun so I liked it. Scarf Wake is scarf wake, it does insane damage and provides great speed control. In general I prefer scarf over specs due to wake being at 348 speed, kind of an awkward speed tier. Ice beam on pert allows for special coverage, and ice hits more things than surf does while doing somewhat similar damage.
252 Atk Choice Band Adaptability Great Tusk Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Swampert: 430-506 (106.4 - 125.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Adaptability Great Tusk Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fluffy Corviknight: 137-162 (34.2 - 40.5%) -- 45.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Adaptability Great Tusk Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Mandibuzz: 274-324 (64.7 - 76.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Adaptability Great Tusk Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fluffy Corviknight: 137-162 (34.2 - 40.5%) -- 45.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Adaptability Great Tusk Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Mandibuzz: 274-324 (64.7 - 76.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
A combo of all the mons above, wanted to run a triple choice team and this is what it is. Just nuking everything, it's fun.
Over the past week I would say my opinions on gouging have changed, don't see it nearly as much anymore as so many teams are prepping for it, and I don't have to slot in a WBB mon or a mon dedicated to beating it up (many times just feels like an added benefit of the mon). It having to setup hinders it significantly and the defensive variants, while annoying, are nowhere near as threatening. Opinions on chien haven't really changed but maybe with time they will as well, idk.
Also ended up getting 4 accounts in the top 10 as well, which is always fun.
Cycle Acc
Currently sitting a bit higher rn as this is from a day or two ago but yea u get the point
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I am expecting mixed responses to this post but I believe that one of the most oppressive mons to teambuilding in gen 9 AAA is corviknight. A wide variety of viable sets with varying abilities means that you play a guessing game on whether or not your move will kill it or help it. Any physical attacking pokemon that cant handle corviknight is just not viable. Nearly every team runs a corviknight, and it is put in the highest viability ranking on nearly every viability ranking. Its versatility is incredible, and it can reliably defend from most physical attackers throughout an entire game. Access to defog, u turn, roost, screens, and multiple set up moves results in one of the most stacked movepools in the game. Corviknight is unlikely to be banned or have any tiering action because it is a defensive mon, and is subtle in its misdeeds. However, I still feel like a balance discussion should be on the table.
It's true that defensive Pokemon tend to require a higher level of influence than usual in order to be considered for tiering action, but within the context of the metagame, it's difficult to substantiate the argument that Corviknight itself is oppressive or even overwhelming. UT tried to sneak "[Corviknight] is the worst Pokemon you will use on 75% of your teams" into its AAA analysis recently, and he's honestly right. I'm not not sure that the "varying abilities" aspect is true or even that scary in practice, either. Very rarely should your team be losing to Well-Baked Body Corviknight just because your Cinderace or Ceruledge uses the Fire move into it once or twice. Neither +2 Body Press nor Brave Bird is killing either of those Pokemon, and more often than not the Corviknight is revealing its ability on switch-in, which means it's probably not even getting a chance to attack in the first place. The same applies for Volt Absorb Corviknight; we've all seen Zapdos win against this set anyway, for example. Otherwise, all that's really left is physically defensive, and you can choose between Intimidate or Fluffy. Intimidate Corviknight is straight up pressured by the very things it's trying to beat: Sword of Ruin Roaring Moon? Chien-Pao? Ogerpon? Galarian Zapdos? Great Tusk?! All of these Pokemon consistently do so much damage that Corviknight is forced to Roost every other turn after taking an attack--or it loses. That doesn't sound like an oppressive element to me. Even at the highest extreme of Fluffy, you're sacrificing effective bulk against Icicle Crash from Chien-Pao and Ivy Cudgel from any Ogerpon forme.
I am expecting mixed responses to this post but I believe that one of the most oppressive mons to teambuilding in gen 9 AAA is corviknight. A wide variety of viable sets with varying abilities means that you play a guessing game on whether or not your move will kill it or help it. Any physical attacking pokemon that cant handle corviknight is just not viable. Nearly every team runs a corviknight, and it is put in the highest viability ranking on nearly every viability ranking. Its versatility is incredible, and it can reliably defend from most physical attackers throughout an entire game. Access to defog, u turn, roost, screens, and multiple set up moves results in one of the most stacked movepools in the game. Corviknight is unlikely to be banned or have any tiering action because it is a defensive mon, and is subtle in its misdeeds. However, I still feel like a balance discussion should be on the table.
I could maybe see the position that Fluffy Corviknight specifically is too strong, but in my experience there are enough ways to pressure it--between Knocking Off its item, leveraging pivots to bring in stuff that blows up like a special attacker, and getting up rocks to force extra chip every time it comes in--that this is rarely the case in practice.
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stall is possibly the biggest issue in the meta rn (more than goug, which is currently being suspected) and it baffles me how no one is taking this seriously
-stall has enough options at base to wall 95% of the meta; currently the only decently consistent stallbreakers i've found are moth + spikes (mu reliant), moldy tran (relying on 75% accurate move to make progress sucks), and offensive hands sets (actually pretty good but hard to fit), stall already beats everything else barring unmons already. this makes it clearly the best playstyle in the tier rn
-for the things that can beat stall, the base core of your average stall team is good enough to cteam what can beat it with little opportunity cost. offensive hands? va air balloon ghold. mg gappy? toxapex. you're never truly safe vs all the possible variants of stall out there, and there are already so many that are only increasing every day. not to mention the rng-related outs stall has even if it doesn't specifically prep for something (e.g flame body procs, double tects, sleep talk rolls)
-even if it is techinally possible to consistently beat stall, doing so takes much longer on average than your standard aaa match, which leads to boring and unfun 100+ turn games no one really wants to play. this seems to me like the makings of an unhealthy meta
-finally, i don't see this issue getting any better with time. if goug goes it will free up even more options for stall to stonewall more of the meta, if goug stays stall still develops at a decent rate, and we aren't getting any new mons for the rest of the gen
i think we need to start freeing more ubers to raise the power level of the tier cause idt we can currently ban anything to make stall weaker (i remember someone bringing up flame body in discord but then stall just shifts to like barbs or poison point or static or actually prepping for stuff that flame body cripples and nothing really changes). i think we should start off with noivern, which looks to be a balanced mon rn and breaks stall pretty consistently, or at least forces stall to prep for it more, and then consider mons like zama-h or enam which got decent scores to be freed in the recent survey.
-stall has enough options at base to wall 95% of the meta; currently the only decently consistent stallbreakers i've found are moth + spikes (mu reliant), moldy tran (relying on 75% accurate move to make progress sucks), and offensive hands sets (actually pretty good but hard to fit), stall already beats everything else barring unmons already. this makes it clearly the best playstyle in the tier rn
-for the things that can beat stall, the base core of your average stall team is good enough to cteam what can beat it with little opportunity cost. offensive hands? va air balloon ghold. mg gappy? toxapex. you're never truly safe vs all the possible variants of stall out there, and there are already so many that are only increasing every day. not to mention the rng-related outs stall has even if it doesn't specifically prep for something (e.g flame body procs, double tects, sleep talk rolls)
-even if it is techinally possible to consistently beat stall, doing so takes much longer on average than your standard aaa match, which leads to boring and unfun 100+ turn games no one really wants to play. this seems to me like the makings of an unhealthy meta
-finally, i don't see this issue getting any better with time. if goug goes it will free up even more options for stall to stonewall more of the meta, if goug stays stall still develops at a decent rate, and we aren't getting any new mons for the rest of the gen
i think we need to start freeing more ubers to raise the power level of the tier cause idt we can currently ban anything to make stall weaker (i remember someone bringing up flame body in discord but then stall just shifts to like barbs or poison point or static or actually prepping for stuff that flame body cripples and nothing really changes). i think we should start off with noivern, which looks to be a balanced mon rn and breaks stall pretty consistently, or at least forces stall to prep for it more, and then consider mons like zama-h or enam which got decent scores to be freed in the recent survey.
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I intended to write a post about this at some point to pre-empt the doom, but rip timing
I think stall being good right now is primarily because certain people (Glalie, primarily) identified the lack of decent stall prep in the metagame and found a strong team (with some room for variation) that beats a lot of things through teambuilding/playing experimentation. I've observed some people who took said teams and were successful on ladder, but I've also seen several others get dismantled, so I struggle to understand why this is considered a severe issue already. Yes, existing stall teams do well against a lot of "meta" teams because frankly, those teams don't take stall into account during teambuilding and haven't done so in a long time. Why would they? Stall has sucked for ages this gen. That doesn't eliminate our ability to adapt, or really even take away people's ability to play out the stall matchup.
"..walls 95%" of the meta and similar presumptions that stall beats everything or can somehow cteam its counters with minor changes is just doomposting, sorry. If it was that easy in this meta, it would be happening (hint: it isn't). Every change you make to a stall team fundamentally changes its matchups; you aren't solving one matchup without giving up several others. Anyway, I don't intend for this to be an essay about philosophy of building stall, so I'll drop that part.
I don't think we need to be worried about games being longer because of stall because that's literally what the point of the playstyle is. That being said, don't expect a stall game to end in 20 turns just because you have good counterplay lol; that's not how fat games work literally anywhere. People already have and will continue to adapt and find ways to make the matchup more playable over time, just like always whenever a new flavor core or team pops up in AAA. The only difference this time is that it's stall; that doesn't make the process of learning how to account for it any less natural.
I'm all for unbanning things to test them out, but let it be for better reasons than "someone finally built a good stall team after the playstyle sucked for a year and a half, let's nuke it immediately". Give it some time first.
P.S. And now, this: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/endless-battle-issues.3596079/#post-7236811
I think stall being good right now is primarily because certain people (Glalie, primarily) identified the lack of decent stall prep in the metagame and found a strong team (with some room for variation) that beats a lot of things through teambuilding/playing experimentation. I've observed some people who took said teams and were successful on ladder, but I've also seen several others get dismantled, so I struggle to understand why this is considered a severe issue already. Yes, existing stall teams do well against a lot of "meta" teams because frankly, those teams don't take stall into account during teambuilding and haven't done so in a long time. Why would they? Stall has sucked for ages this gen. That doesn't eliminate our ability to adapt, or really even take away people's ability to play out the stall matchup.
"..walls 95%" of the meta and similar presumptions that stall beats everything or can somehow cteam its counters with minor changes is just doomposting, sorry. If it was that easy in this meta, it would be happening (hint: it isn't). Every change you make to a stall team fundamentally changes its matchups; you aren't solving one matchup without giving up several others. Anyway, I don't intend for this to be an essay about philosophy of building stall, so I'll drop that part.
I don't think we need to be worried about games being longer because of stall because that's literally what the point of the playstyle is. That being said, don't expect a stall game to end in 20 turns just because you have good counterplay lol; that's not how fat games work literally anywhere. People already have and will continue to adapt and find ways to make the matchup more playable over time, just like always whenever a new flavor core or team pops up in AAA. The only difference this time is that it's stall; that doesn't make the process of learning how to account for it any less natural.
I'm all for unbanning things to test them out, but let it be for better reasons than "someone finally built a good stall team after the playstyle sucked for a year and a half, let's nuke it immediately". Give it some time first.
P.S. And now, this: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/endless-battle-issues.3596079/#post-7236811
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To add onto what Isaiah said above since we were talking about it in the discord yesterday, I personally don't think the stall team is too oppressive. Sure, if one doesn't prepare for it in the builder, then you will lose, but that is intrinsic to team building. So yes, while you do have to take it into account, it isn't so overbearing that one has to use unmons to beat it. Before I go into it gotta give props to Glalie, since on top of building a good stall team, they are also a good player, the ladder of which I think is the main reason we are having this conversation. Obviously the ways I give to beat it are not going to be 100%, but that is how playing against any team/player is. There will also be differing opinions on how to break it so I'm just giving mine.
I (briefly) mentioned in the disc how using mixed sets on mons is one way to beat the team and wanted to expand on that. Although there aren't good mixed attackers in the meta right now, you can definitely find space on a team to throw in a spatk on some physical mons without compromising the mon/team and vice versa. This is due to the mons on the stall teams being either def or spdef walls. Something simple like ice beam on pert really goes a long way in dealing with checks such as Chesnaught, as one is able to knock the item, waste recovery, and threaten other mons w eq/knock/pivot. The d-nite set I posted is also another example of ways to break the team. These two weren't built specifically for the team, but it came as an added benefit. DFM's garchomp set also does significant damage to the WBB Corv variant of the team after 1 SD, and that thing isn't even a mixed attacker. For non-setup, the CB adapt tusk set I posted did big damage to the team if you get your reads, even fluffy corv variants. Atha also used a really good moth set that handled the team well, and Glalie in response used a leppa harvest bliss, which opened up the team to set-up sweepers. Adaptations are already being found that don't break you in the builder, but if one really wants, just cteam it back, as the examples of adaptation listed are just cteaming the mon mentioned, which I don't think is a sign something is broken. These sets aren't 100%, but they create a challenge for the team (and other teams) with just one slot. With time the meta can adapt, as it has already shown that it can.
Another way of dealing with the team that is pretty consistent is knock spamming, choosing what you want burnt/statused, and just wasting recovery pp. I've also had success with clearing out one of the mons early through positioning/hazards/chip, and this opens the team up pretty well, as each mon is meant to counter certain things, and when that counter is gone you can break easier. Yea it's annoying and takes a while but that is stall. Don't like status? One can run purifying salt, magic guard, fire/poison/steel/electric type, or even protective pads if one is worried about activating the contact abilities. I don't think some of these are huge asks on a team, as if one isn't equipped to handle status in AAA then you will struggle with more than just the stall team.
Finally, if there was an increase in powerlevel that allowed a breaker to OHKO or 2HKO (something I am assuming as I don't really understand fully what would be acceptable vs unacceptable levels) with little to no set-up/drawbacks the teams that glalie has built, it would be a clear sign that the sus mon/s is the one/s OHKOing everything, and would make the meta unplayable (unless one likes constant HO). I don't think increasing the power level is what is really needed, as there are already some pretty big threats that fulfill this role (boulder, gouging, wake, moon, Ogerpon-c, ceruledge, gengar, lati, zelf, etc).
Glalie's team takes a bit more time to break compared to some previous stall teams, but it has honestly been a breath of fresh air for me when playing/building, as I have to think of ways to beat something that isn't just HO or balance while still keeping those team styles in mind.
I (briefly) mentioned in the disc how using mixed sets on mons is one way to beat the team and wanted to expand on that. Although there aren't good mixed attackers in the meta right now, you can definitely find space on a team to throw in a spatk on some physical mons without compromising the mon/team and vice versa. This is due to the mons on the stall teams being either def or spdef walls. Something simple like ice beam on pert really goes a long way in dealing with checks such as Chesnaught, as one is able to knock the item, waste recovery, and threaten other mons w eq/knock/pivot. The d-nite set I posted is also another example of ways to break the team. These two weren't built specifically for the team, but it came as an added benefit. DFM's garchomp set also does significant damage to the WBB Corv variant of the team after 1 SD, and that thing isn't even a mixed attacker. For non-setup, the CB adapt tusk set I posted did big damage to the team if you get your reads, even fluffy corv variants. Atha also used a really good moth set that handled the team well, and Glalie in response used a leppa harvest bliss, which opened up the team to set-up sweepers. Adaptations are already being found that don't break you in the builder, but if one really wants, just cteam it back, as the examples of adaptation listed are just cteaming the mon mentioned, which I don't think is a sign something is broken. These sets aren't 100%, but they create a challenge for the team (and other teams) with just one slot. With time the meta can adapt, as it has already shown that it can.
Another way of dealing with the team that is pretty consistent is knock spamming, choosing what you want burnt/statused, and just wasting recovery pp. I've also had success with clearing out one of the mons early through positioning/hazards/chip, and this opens the team up pretty well, as each mon is meant to counter certain things, and when that counter is gone you can break easier. Yea it's annoying and takes a while but that is stall. Don't like status? One can run purifying salt, magic guard, fire/poison/steel/electric type, or even protective pads if one is worried about activating the contact abilities. I don't think some of these are huge asks on a team, as if one isn't equipped to handle status in AAA then you will struggle with more than just the stall team.
Finally, if there was an increase in powerlevel that allowed a breaker to OHKO or 2HKO (something I am assuming as I don't really understand fully what would be acceptable vs unacceptable levels) with little to no set-up/drawbacks the teams that glalie has built, it would be a clear sign that the sus mon/s is the one/s OHKOing everything, and would make the meta unplayable (unless one likes constant HO). I don't think increasing the power level is what is really needed, as there are already some pretty big threats that fulfill this role (boulder, gouging, wake, moon, Ogerpon-c, ceruledge, gengar, lati, zelf, etc).
Glalie's team takes a bit more time to break compared to some previous stall teams, but it has honestly been a breath of fresh air for me when playing/building, as I have to think of ways to beat something that isn't just HO or balance while still keeping those team styles in mind.
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What's this unbeatable stall team we're talking about?
https://pokepast.es/a450aeea73d466b2 this one?
Because from my experience a simple SD Chien-Pao can pretty easily blow it open, or even Band if it gets a lucky flinch.
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Adaptability Chien-Pao Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 136+ Def Corviknight: 351-413 (87.7 - 103.2%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Adaptability Chien-Pao Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dondozo: 281-333 (55.7 - 66%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
https://pokepast.es/a450aeea73d466b2 this one?
Because from my experience a simple SD Chien-Pao can pretty easily blow it open, or even Band if it gets a lucky flinch.
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Adaptability Chien-Pao Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 136+ Def Corviknight: 351-413 (87.7 - 103.2%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Adaptability Chien-Pao Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dondozo: 281-333 (55.7 - 66%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
pao has rather poor odds to beat this team considering you need rocks off on your side vs a team that can get hazards up consistently + dondozo at worst trades vs pao cause wave crash + lo recoil + helmet kills pao + even if you do get past dozo then you need a flinch on a corvid with a suspiciously low amount of def evs that the original team doesn't even have. if it's band and you lock into crunch you risk having chesnaught swap in and burn you for daring to click what's otherwise a solid midground move. if you're winning vs this team with pao you're either super lucky or there's a massive skill difference.
Honestly, way to early to say anything other then congratulating GlalieGoesBoom on making a good stall team despite it being a practically non-existent archetype since the beginning of Gen 9. I'd say we'd have to have most of the ladder running a wide variety of stalls that worked just as well before we start calling it a problem.
Quick Reminder: THERE IS NO ONE SIZE FITS ALL BREAKER FOR ALL STALLS
This is universally true for all metagames, and AAA is obviously included.
You're telling me that AAA stall is hard to break?
Right.
We don't have Good as Gold or double Regenerator cores (
, 
) or even 
Pheal 
.
Personally, I'm not buying it.
This is universally true for all metagames, and AAA is obviously included.
You're telling me that AAA stall is hard to break?
Right.
We don't have Good as Gold
or double Regenerator cores ( , ) or even Pheal .Personally, I'm not buying it.
Gouging Fire is banned! https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/sv-aaa-suspect-10-gouging-fire.3736296/post-9971381
Zamazenta suspect test will go up later:tm: (no, that does not mean today) after VR update
Zamazenta suspect test will go up later:tm: (no, that does not mean today) after VR update
damn, i was just about to build a team around WBB Enamorous-T to terrorize the ladder(and my ranking) with smh my head
I did suspect run with this, was meh at best unfortunately
Felt i should post my winning valentines day special team
Luvdisc @ Flame Orb
Ability: Guts
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Aqua Jet
- Liquidation
- Facade
- Flip Turn
Aqua jet finishes off a ton of kos
Luvdisc @ Leftovers
Ability: Storm Drain
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Draining Kiss
- Agility
- Waterfall
- Tera Blast
Mixed attacking not great
Luvdisc @ Choice Specs
Ability: Adaptability
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Flip Turn
- Hydro Pump
- Draining Kiss
- Tera Blast
Unused
Luvdisc @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Drizzle
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Flip Turn
- Wish
- Hydro Pump
- Draining Kiss
Unused
Luvdisc @ Choice Specs
Ability: Galvanize
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Tera Blast
- Flip Turn
- Draining Kiss
- Protect
straight up ohkoes stuff
Luvdisc @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Motor Drive
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draining Kiss
- Tera Blast
- Hydro Pump
- Flip Turn
Unused
Summary:
use tera blast or facade exclusively
Wish passing sucks
Agility is fine
galvanize is insane
Overall i enjoyed the aaa event and will hope for bh next year
Luvdisc @ Flame Orb
Ability: Guts
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Aqua Jet
- Liquidation
- Facade
- Flip Turn
Aqua jet finishes off a ton of kos
Luvdisc @ Leftovers
Ability: Storm Drain
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Draining Kiss
- Agility
- Waterfall
- Tera Blast
Mixed attacking not great
Luvdisc @ Choice Specs
Ability: Adaptability
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Flip Turn
- Hydro Pump
- Draining Kiss
- Tera Blast
Unused
Luvdisc @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Drizzle
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Flip Turn
- Wish
- Hydro Pump
- Draining Kiss
Unused
Luvdisc @ Choice Specs
Ability: Galvanize
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Tera Blast
- Flip Turn
- Draining Kiss
- Protect
straight up ohkoes stuff
Luvdisc @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Motor Drive
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draining Kiss
- Tera Blast
- Hydro Pump
- Flip Turn
Unused
Summary:
use tera blast or facade exclusively
Wish passing sucks
Agility is fine
galvanize is insane
Overall i enjoyed the aaa event and will hope for bh next year
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Wanted to give some food for thought about fluffy and the metagame as a whole as I saw a discussion about it in the discord earlier today that got me thinking about this topic more. Firstly, I don't think that fluffy is an issue, more of a band-aid over some of the physical threats in the tier that hit pretty hard. Fluffy has clear benefits and drawbacks, with most fluffy users eventually being worn down by physical attackers or just getting smacked w a spatk at some point. If fluffy were to go, then all the mons I mention would most likely have to go as well, which I don't think is a sign to an ability being broken and more the mons it's reacting to. I will go into the three main mons I believe are causing the fluffy warp as well as an ability that helps them further. Going to be talking about fluffy in the context of corv, as this is the most common user of it, although I do recognize that other mons are able to use it with success such as skarm and tusk.
Boulder is a mon that feels mid when I use it and mid when I play against it, but it still impacts the meta in a significant way. Due to its excellent attack/speed stat, decent spdef, coverage, and boosting ability, it finds itself in the position to OHKO or 2HKO most of the meta after an SD unless one builds correctly for it. This usually comes in the form of naturally faster physical threats, scarf, and fluffy. Fluffy in conjunction with one of these allows for a consistent way to stifle boulder and not allow it to mow a team down even after an SD. Although this leads to some pretty restraining ways of dealing with it, as fluffy is one of the main ways one can consistently switch in on this mon. If I am being honest this guy feels like the one that is causing the issue the most, as moon has been in the meta for a long time and by the end of DLC 1 there was some pretty decent variation in corv.
Moon still does apply immense pressure and is another reason for the rise in fluffy, although I think it is more in conjunction with boulder, as one can beat moon with intim, but not always boulder, so fluffy is able to check both more reliably. Knock is able to get rid of the consistent chip of helmet, and then allows for the corv to become pivot fodder for the rest of the game.
I have already given my thoughts about this mon a few times and my opinion has not changed. It is able to bypass fluffy with icicle crash which also throws a wrench into how you want to check this mon and the two above. While fluffy is great for crunch, one should have another measure for IC.
Honorable Mention
With this guy back and doing aerilate set-up, intim doesn't cut it, as d-dance sets are able to muscle through pretty easily. Though this can run coverage moves to help against fluffy as well as run special moves, requiring different measures. Although it is limited by its 8 es pp and psychic surge still being pretty popular.
The ability:
Sword of Ruin **adaptability, scrappy**
SoR is a pretty strong ability. Two of the three mons mentioned above utilize SoR as their main ability, it gives a boost to all moves regardless of type is what sets it apart from adapt, and while not giving as much of a boost, this tradeoff is significant and worth it more often than not. However I do believe that mons such as chien and moon would be able to pivot quite easily to adapt, as sets with these abilities have already shown to be usable/successful, so I don't think SoR is the real culprit, just an enabler for abusers.
Adapt and scrappy are abilities that are also used on strong physical breakers, but they have more significant tradeoffs and are easier to build around/play against when compared to SoR, which is why I wanted to *briefly* mention them to allow for some differentiation.
Honestly been having a fun time w this mon. Still think its best set is CB SoR, but if there were to be another set that rises, it's still gonna be doing insane damage. While I don't think zam is cause for concern, I think it will exacerbate people wanting to run fluffy corv on their teams, as this is a reliable check to zam and the aforementioned physical threats. Yes, there are other ways to beat all the mons I mentioned, but I hope one can see that a common thread among all of these is that fluffy is able to cover them all, and does it in just one slot, and allows for the most consistency in beating these mons (as these mons sometimes have different checks).
So what am I trying to get at in this post? I wanted to highlight some of the main reasons that fluffy is being used so heavily rn. Do I think action needs to be taken on all of them? No. Do I want action on some of them. Yes, specifically chien and maybe boulder. I know we are in the middle of a zam test, and Isaiah did say that there wouldn't be tests/(bans?) for a bit after this one, but I think it pertains to this topic as like I said previously zam would likely add fuel to the fluffy fire. I also understand that as you go higher in a meta there will be more centralization, but I thought it was interesting to highlight how there are quite a few mons that cause this and how some pull you in different directions in the builder (ex. chien vs moon). Or maybe it's just a skill issue and I need to get a bit more creative in the builder...
Would love to hear others thoughts about this, if I missed any mon/ability, didn't explain a point well enough, and/or if you disagree.
Boulder is a mon that feels mid when I use it and mid when I play against it, but it still impacts the meta in a significant way. Due to its excellent attack/speed stat, decent spdef, coverage, and boosting ability, it finds itself in the position to OHKO or 2HKO most of the meta after an SD unless one builds correctly for it. This usually comes in the form of naturally faster physical threats, scarf, and fluffy. Fluffy in conjunction with one of these allows for a consistent way to stifle boulder and not allow it to mow a team down even after an SD. Although this leads to some pretty restraining ways of dealing with it, as fluffy is one of the main ways one can consistently switch in on this mon. If I am being honest this guy feels like the one that is causing the issue the most, as moon has been in the meta for a long time and by the end of DLC 1 there was some pretty decent variation in corv.
Moon still does apply immense pressure and is another reason for the rise in fluffy, although I think it is more in conjunction with boulder, as one can beat moon with intim, but not always boulder, so fluffy is able to check both more reliably. Knock is able to get rid of the consistent chip of helmet, and then allows for the corv to become pivot fodder for the rest of the game.
I have already given my thoughts about this mon a few times and my opinion has not changed. It is able to bypass fluffy with icicle crash which also throws a wrench into how you want to check this mon and the two above. While fluffy is great for crunch, one should have another measure for IC.
Honorable Mention
With this guy back and doing aerilate set-up, intim doesn't cut it, as d-dance sets are able to muscle through pretty easily. Though this can run coverage moves to help against fluffy as well as run special moves, requiring different measures. Although it is limited by its 8 es pp and psychic surge still being pretty popular.
The ability:
Sword of Ruin **adaptability, scrappy**
SoR is a pretty strong ability. Two of the three mons mentioned above utilize SoR as their main ability, it gives a boost to all moves regardless of type is what sets it apart from adapt, and while not giving as much of a boost, this tradeoff is significant and worth it more often than not. However I do believe that mons such as chien and moon would be able to pivot quite easily to adapt, as sets with these abilities have already shown to be usable/successful, so I don't think SoR is the real culprit, just an enabler for abusers.
Adapt and scrappy are abilities that are also used on strong physical breakers, but they have more significant tradeoffs and are easier to build around/play against when compared to SoR, which is why I wanted to *briefly* mention them to allow for some differentiation.
Honestly been having a fun time w this mon. Still think its best set is CB SoR, but if there were to be another set that rises, it's still gonna be doing insane damage. While I don't think zam is cause for concern, I think it will exacerbate people wanting to run fluffy corv on their teams, as this is a reliable check to zam and the aforementioned physical threats. Yes, there are other ways to beat all the mons I mentioned, but I hope one can see that a common thread among all of these is that fluffy is able to cover them all, and does it in just one slot, and allows for the most consistency in beating these mons (as these mons sometimes have different checks).
So what am I trying to get at in this post? I wanted to highlight some of the main reasons that fluffy is being used so heavily rn. Do I think action needs to be taken on all of them? No. Do I want action on some of them. Yes, specifically chien and maybe boulder. I know we are in the middle of a zam test, and Isaiah did say that there wouldn't be tests/(bans?) for a bit after this one, but I think it pertains to this topic as like I said previously zam would likely add fuel to the fluffy fire. I also understand that as you go higher in a meta there will be more centralization, but I thought it was interesting to highlight how there are quite a few mons that cause this and how some pull you in different directions in the builder (ex. chien vs moon). Or maybe it's just a skill issue and I need to get a bit more creative in the builder...
Would love to hear others thoughts about this, if I missed any mon/ability, didn't explain a point well enough, and/or if you disagree.
Not sure why SoR is being brought up at all? If this is a balancing discussion or even general discussion on the general popularity of Fluffy and it being a somewhat concerning sign I don't think SoR matters much. It is mostly better than Adapt and Tough Claws but honestly the difference is minor enough people still use those abilities just so they can bluff other abilities on tons of mons (Chien-Pao, Roaring Moon, Iron Boulder, Slither-Wing, etc*), with very few mons being that noticeably impacted and Scrappy is kind of different in its own way. I don't see how it'd ever be problematic unless we considered general amps to be problematic which would definitely be a concern... but it isn't, and the other general amps (Adapt, TClaws) have existed for generations and been fine even without Fluffy.Wanted to give some food for thought about fluffy and the metagame as a whole as I saw a discussion about it in the discord earlier today that got me thinking about this topic more. Firstly, I don't think that fluffy is an issue, more of a band-aid over some of the physical threats in the tier that hit pretty hard. Fluffy has clear benefits and drawbacks, with most fluffy users eventually being worn down by physical attackers or just getting smacked w a spatk at some point. If fluffy were to go, then all the mons I mention would most likely have to go as well, which I don't think is a sign to an ability being broken and more the mons it's reacting to. I will go into the three main mons I believe are causing the fluffy warp as well as an ability that helps them further. Going to be talking about fluffy in the context of corv, as this is the most common user of it, although I do recognize that other mons are able to use it with success such as skarm and tusk.
Boulder is a mon that feels mid when I use it and mid when I play against it, but it still impacts the meta in a significant way. Due to its excellent attack/speed stat, decent spdef, coverage, and boosting ability, it finds itself in the position to OHKO or 2HKO most of the meta after an SD unless one builds correctly for it. This usually comes in the form of naturally faster physical threats, scarf, and fluffy. Fluffy in conjunction with one of these allows for a consistent way to stifle boulder and not allow it to mow a team down even after an SD. Although this leads to some pretty restraining ways of dealing with it, as fluffy is one of the main ways one can consistently switch in on this mon. If I am being honest this guy feels like the one that is causing the issue the most, as moon has been in the meta for a long time and by the end of DLC 1 there was some pretty decent variation in corv.
Moon still does apply immense pressure and is another reason for the rise in fluffy, although I think it is more in conjunction with boulder, as one can beat moon with intim, but not always boulder, so fluffy is able to check both more reliably. Knock is able to get rid of the consistent chip of helmet, and then allows for the corv to become pivot fodder for the rest of the game.
I have already given my thoughts about this mon a few times and my opinion has not changed. It is able to bypass fluffy with icicle crash which also throws a wrench into how you want to check this mon and the two above. While fluffy is great for crunch, one should have another measure for IC.
Honorable Mention
With this guy back and doing aerilate set-up, intim doesn't cut it, as d-dance sets are able to muscle through pretty easily. Though this can run coverage moves to help against fluffy as well as run special moves, requiring different measures. Although it is limited by its 8 es pp and psychic surge still being pretty popular.
The ability:
Sword of Ruin **adaptability, scrappy**
SoR is a pretty strong ability. Two of the three mons mentioned above utilize SoR as their main ability, it gives a boost to all moves regardless of type is what sets it apart from adapt, and while not giving as much of a boost, this tradeoff is significant and worth it more often than not. However I do believe that mons such as chien and moon would be able to pivot quite easily to adapt, as sets with these abilities have already shown to be usable/successful, so I don't think SoR is the real culprit, just an enabler for abusers.
Adapt and scrappy are abilities that are also used on strong physical breakers, but they have more significant tradeoffs and are easier to build around/play against when compared to SoR, which is why I wanted to *briefly* mention them to allow for some differentiation.
Honestly been having a fun time w this mon. Still think its best set is CB SoR, but if there were to be another set that rises, it's still gonna be doing insane damage. While I don't think zam is cause for concern, I think it will exacerbate people wanting to run fluffy corv on their teams, as this is a reliable check to zam and the aforementioned physical threats. Yes, there are other ways to beat all the mons I mentioned, but I hope one can see that a common thread among all of these is that fluffy is able to cover them all, and does it in just one slot, and allows for the most consistency in beating these mons (as these mons sometimes have different checks).
So what am I trying to get at in this post? I wanted to highlight some of the main reasons that fluffy is being used so heavily rn. Do I think action needs to be taken on all of them? No. Do I want action on some of them. Yes, specifically chien and maybe boulder. I know we are in the middle of a zam test, and Isaiah did say that there wouldn't be tests/(bans?) for a bit after this one, but I think it pertains to this topic as like I said previously zam would likely add fuel to the fluffy fire. I also understand that as you go higher in a meta there will be more centralization, but I thought it was interesting to highlight how there are quite a few mons that cause this and how some pull you in different directions in the builder (ex. chien vs moon). Or maybe it's just a skill issue and I need to get a bit more creative in the builder...
Would love to hear others thoughts about this, if I missed any mon/ability, didn't explain a point well enough, and/or if you disagree.
I mean the mons that make people use fluffy have to use an ability right? Of the five mons I mentioned three like to use sword of ruin, which I think warrants it at least being brought up. I don't think any action needs to be taken on any ability (almost did the thing), I even say in the post that SoR isn't the issue, just that it enables some mons better than others, and that adapt and scrappy are able to built around (this time I will say fairly easily, and will make it clear here I think they are good for the meta). In that section I wanted to highlight the 3 three abilities that are most common on some of the breakers that make running fluffy more worth it, not to say they should be gone from the tier. Maybe came off a bit too heavy handed in the ability section but just wanted to highlight it as SoR is the most common set for chien/moon, and adapt & scrappy cc spam has been a thing since forever ago.
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