Jibaku
Who let marco in here????
Now that we have our own forums....
Copied over from Project Ubers.
.............................................
HO-OH
In the spirit of the somewhat-newly released Soul Silver and Heart Gold, I'd like to open up a discussion on Ho-oh.
So, Ho-oh has been a largely forgotten Uber in DPPt, and I seek to boost his usage up a bit after discovering how deadly he really is (+ Brave Bird). But before we start, what usually comes into mind when I say "Ho-oh"?
1) Stealth Rock gimps it!
2) What a gimmick...
3) Who uses Ho-oh?
4) Cool Pokemon, but I don't see much use for it unfortunately
So yeah, stop bashing it and actually look into its positive points, which are astoundingly numerous.
Let's start off with its base stats, which are 106 HP / 130 Atk / 90 Def / 110 SAtk / 154 SDef / 90 Spd. Like the other two Pokemon that share the same set of numbers, Lugia and Mewtwo, Ho-oh appreciates this distribution, giving it impressive firepower as well as excellent special bulk. Most people forget about Ho-oh's special defense and get shocked when Ho-oh can take a +2 Dark Pulse from Darkrai and live with >50%, OHKOing it in return. Ho-oh eats Palkia's Scarf Spacial Rends for around 36%, making it a fine counter in the sun as long as Stealth Rock is off the field (which I will cover later), and laughs at Mewtwo's Ice Beams. People often forget how much of a threat this thing is, and sometimes even with rocks on the field, one Roost is all it takes for it to completely kill the opponent.
Ho-oh on the defensive
Ho-oh may not have the best typing in the game, but it is quite unique. Now, before the thought of Stealth Rock comes into mind, let's see what it is weak and resistant to
Resist: 4x Bug, 4x Grass, 2x Fighting, 2x Steel, 2x Fire
Weak: 4x Rock, 2x Water, 2x Electric
Immune: Ground
Now, when we have sunlight out (though, won't be on forever probably due to Kyogre's presence), the Water weakness is eliminated, while Thunder's accuracy is reduced to 50% which sort of eliminates the Electric weakness. That leaves us with Rock to worry about. Isn't that great?
Now let's see what we can use the typing for. With a quad resistance to bug, resistance to Fighting, neutrality to the most dangerous attacking types in Ubers, Ghost, Dragon, and Ice, Ho-oh can be used as a go-to Pokemon to defeat Deoxys-A leads should your lead be at a disadvantageous match up (like Groudon, who could be Grass Knotted). Sure, it'll put up a Stealth Rock and then send out a Pokemon that will scare Ho-oh away, but at least you've gotten rid of the lead, no? Deoxys-A leads can be extremely threatening as they can deal massive damage as well as stop Forretress from spinning by using Fire Punch. Furthermore, they can control the pace of the match by luring out Scarfers and then sending in Wobbuffet to kill it. Using Ho-oh can help break free of that control they try to put on you.
Ho-oh's resistance to Fighting also allows it to stop Mixed Dialga as long as the sunlight is out. While there is no guarantee that the sun will be out, you can make a few predictions and bring the weather in, then bring Ho-oh before it starts causing too much damage. Ho-oh can also stop Mixed Rayquazas that do not carry Outrage (though many do - at least that leaves them open for revenge killing), as it takes about 60% from Life Orb Draco Meteor and can easily Roost off the damage. Finally, as long as Mewtwo doesn't carry Thunder or if it's sunny, Ho-oh can stop it quite handily.
These amazing defensive traits has Ho-oh fit very, very well on stall teams. Ho-oh appreciates the Wish and Rapid Spin support from Blissey and Forretress, respectively, as well as the sunlight support from Groudon. In turn, Ho-oh covers up major commonly seen stall breaking threats such as Darkrai and Mewtwo. Ho-oh also provides the team with some firepower, which we will be discussing next...
Ho-oh on the offensive
Perhaps I should've discussed this first, but Ho-oh's Special Defense is too massive to ignore...
First things first. Ho-oh has a maximum of 394 Attack. That's pretty deadly. Combined with STABed Sacred Fire (probably the best attack in the game, though sadly only learned by him and Smeargle), and Earthquake, plus Life Orb to boost its power, almost nothing in the game could take its assaults lightly. However, even that has changed.
Ho-oh received a new attack in HGSS - Brave Bird. It is a fairly significant addition to its rather pathetic physical movepool, and will be pretty much a staple. The recoil is bad, yes, but the sheer power is much more than enough to compensate for it. It is so strong that with a Life orb boost, it OHKOes no HP/ no Defense Kyogre after Stealth Rock damage. Kyogre has always been Ho-oh's archnemesis in the past, and now it fears to swap in due to that. It can also 3HKO Giratina (beware of how you manage this one, though), and OHKO Lati@s and deal a massive amount to Giratina-O. Furthermore, in the rain, Brave Bird is Ho-oh's only method of really hurting Mewtwo and Darkrai
THE SET
Ho-oh @ Life Orb / Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 224 HP / 252 Atk / 32 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Sacred Fire
- Brave Bird
- Substitute / Earthquake / Whirlwind
- Roost / Recover
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 224 HP / 252 Atk / 32 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Sacred Fire
- Brave Bird
- Substitute / Earthquake / Whirlwind
- Roost / Recover
The EVs here generate 409 HP / 394 Attack / 224 Speed. This gives Ho-oh maximum amount of power, while maintaining a good amount of HP for overall bulk, 101+ HP Subs, and enough Speed to outrun max Speed TTar (and in the same vein, most defensive Kyogres, Groudons, Bulk Up/support Dialga, Giratina, etc). For those of you that are Life Orb freaks, this minimizes the LO damage too.
Whirlwind might be an odd thing to use, but with some entry hazards Ho-oh can beat one of its nemesis, Giratina, quite easily. You should use it with Leftovers
To demonstrate the strength of Ho-oh, here are some calculations (all with Life Orb)
SACRED FIRE
Max Atk Adamant Ho-oh in sunlight vs 252 HP / no Def Mew under Reflect:
394 Atk vs 236 Def & 404 HP (100 Base Power): 177 - 208 (43.81% - 51.49%)
394 Atk vs 236 Def & 404 HP (100 Base Power): 177 - 208 (43.81% - 51.49%)
Vs. Max/Max Impish Groudon
394 Atk vs 416 Def & 404 HP (100 Base Power): 198 - 234 (49.01% - 57.92%)
394 Atk vs 416 Def & 404 HP (100 Base Power): 198 - 234 (49.01% - 57.92%)
Vs. Standard Latias
394 Atk vs 216 Def & 329 HP (100 Base Power): 191 - 225 (58.05% - 68.39%)
394 Atk vs 216 Def & 329 HP (100 Base Power): 191 - 225 (58.05% - 68.39%)
Vs. Giratina-O
394 Atk vs 236 Def & 462 HP (100 Base Power): 174 - 206 (37.66% - 44.59%)
394 Atk vs 236 Def & 462 HP (100 Base Power): 174 - 206 (37.66% - 44.59%)
Vs. 0/0 Garchomp
394 Atk vs 226 Def & 357 HP (100 Base Power): 182 - 215 (50.98% - 60.22%)
394 Atk vs 226 Def & 357 HP (100 Base Power): 182 - 215 (50.98% - 60.22%)
Vs. Physically Defensive Mewtwo
394 Atk vs 272 Def & 416 HP (100 Base Power): 301 - 355 (72.36% - 85.34%)
394 Atk vs 272 Def & 416 HP (100 Base Power): 301 - 355 (72.36% - 85.34%)
Vs. 0/0 Hasty Palkia (30 Def IV for legality) (lol)
394 Atk vs 211 Def & 321 HP (100 Base Power): 97 - 114 (30.22% - 35.51%)
Not bad for being quad resisted.
394 Atk vs 211 Def & 321 HP (100 Base Power): 97 - 114 (30.22% - 35.51%)
Not bad for being quad resisted.
Vs. 0/0 Dialga
394 Atk vs 276 Def & 341 HP (100 Base Power): 297 - 351 (87.10% - 102.93%)
394 Atk vs 276 Def & 341 HP (100 Base Power): 297 - 351 (87.10% - 102.93%)
Vs. 252/0 Dialga
394 Atk vs 276 Def & 404 HP (100 Base Power): 297 - 351 (73.51% - 86.88%)
394 Atk vs 276 Def & 404 HP (100 Base Power): 297 - 351 (73.51% - 86.88%)
Vs. standard Calm Wobb
394 Atk vs 215 Def & 528 HP (100 Base Power): 382 - 450 (72.35% - 85.23%)
394 Atk vs 215 Def & 528 HP (100 Base Power): 382 - 450 (72.35% - 85.23%)
BRAVE BIRD
Vs. 4/0 Kyogre (Scarf/Specs)
394 Atk vs 216 Def & 342 HP (120 Base Power): 306 - 360 (89.47% - 105.26%)
394 Atk vs 216 Def & 342 HP (120 Base Power): 306 - 360 (89.47% - 105.26%)
Vs. 252/0 Kyogre (Lead/SubCM)
394 Atk vs 216 Def & 404 HP (120 Base Power): 306 - 360 (75.74% - 89.11%)
394 Atk vs 216 Def & 404 HP (120 Base Power): 306 - 360 (75.74% - 89.11%)
Vs. Standard Bulky Kyogre
394 Atk vs 276 Def & 404 HP (120 Base Power): 238 - 282 (58.91% - 69.80%)
394 Atk vs 276 Def & 404 HP (120 Base Power): 238 - 282 (58.91% - 69.80%)
Vs. 4/0 Timid Palkia
394 Atk vs 236 Def & 322 HP (120 Base Power): 280 - 331 (86.96% - 102.80%)
394 Atk vs 236 Def & 322 HP (120 Base Power): 280 - 331 (86.96% - 102.80%)
Vs. 0/0 Hasty Palkia (30 Def IV)
394 Atk vs 211 Def & 321 HP (120 Base Power): 313 - 370 (97.51% - 115.26%)
394 Atk vs 211 Def & 321 HP (120 Base Power): 313 - 370 (97.51% - 115.26%)
Vs. 0/0 Garchomp
394 Atk vs 226 Def & 357 HP (120 Base Power): 292 - 345 (81.79% - 96.64%)
394 Atk vs 226 Def & 357 HP (120 Base Power): 292 - 345 (81.79% - 96.64%)
Vs. Physically Defensive Mewtwo
394 Atk vs 272 Def & 416 HP (120 Base Power): 244 - 288 (58.65% - 69.23%)
394 Atk vs 272 Def & 416 HP (120 Base Power): 244 - 288 (58.65% - 69.23%)
Vs. Standard Latias
394 Atk vs 216 Def & 329 HP (120 Base Power): 306 - 360 (93.01% - 109.42%)
394 Atk vs 216 Def & 329 HP (120 Base Power): 306 - 360 (93.01% - 109.42%)
Vs. 0/0 Rayquaza
394 Atk vs 216 Def & 351 HP (120 Base Power): 306 - 360 (87.18% - 102.56%)
394 Atk vs 216 Def & 351 HP (120 Base Power): 306 - 360 (87.18% - 102.56%)
Vs. 248/248 Impish Giratina
394 Atk vs 371 Def & 503 HP (120 Base Power): 178 - 211 (35.39% - 41.95%)
(You need to roll 190 damage three times, at minimum, to 3HKO)
394 Atk vs 371 Def & 503 HP (120 Base Power): 178 - 211 (35.39% - 41.95%)
(You need to roll 190 damage three times, at minimum, to 3HKO)
and so on....
<Ho-oh's partners and dealing with Stealth Rock comes later>
Notable Partners:
(Listing them for now)
- Groudon
<sunlight, SR set up, rock resist, electric resist>
- Forretress
<spinner, sets up more entry hazards>
- Deoxys-S
<Taunt to prevent SR from getting on the field, sets up rocks/spikes on its own>
- Blissey
<Wish support, helps against Kyogre to an extent>
- Jirachi
<Wish support, U-turn, Rock resistance I guess>
- Wobbuffet (obviously!)
<duh>
- Palkia/Latias
<Takes Water Spouts>
[STUFF FROM FIREBURN]
Dialga
Dialga and Ho-oh cover each other's weaknesses pefectly, and Dialga is one of the better Giratina counters as well as being able to serve as a makeshift check to Kyogre with Thunder. Dialga is also an excellent stall-breaker, which can help Ho-oh sweep these kinds of teams. A Specs lead can also stop opposing Dialga, Forry, and Groudon from getting up SR, while Ho-oh can stop Deoxys-A leads that may try to Superpower Dialga. (Dialga can also set up SR itself.)
Kyogre?
?
Kyogre may actually seem like a bad teammate for Ho-oh, because the rain accentuates Ho-oh's Water and Electric weaknesses and weakens its Fire STAB. And in these ways it can be, but Bulky RestTalk CM Kyogre can actually sweep quite easily with Ho-oh around. Its main counters include enemy Kyogre, Lati@s, and Palkia, and thanks to Brave Bird, Ho-oh can easily annihilate them, leaving Kyogre free to decimate teams. Bulky RestTalk CM Kyogre in return provides a status absorber (Ho-oh hates status) as well as a Water resist and a counter to the most common users of Rock-type moves in Ubers, that being Tyranitar, Garchomp, and Groudon.
Garchomp
Ho-oh helps weaken stuff like Groudon and Bulky Kyogres so Garchomp can sweep much more easily. Garchomp also provides resistances to Rock and Electric as well as using a combination of Haban Berry and Swords Dance to help lure in and kill things like Palkia and Lati@s, helping Ho-oh sweep. Ho-oh also helps deal with most Steel-types that can stop Garchomp.
Mewtwo and Darkrai
They don't really help Ho-oh aside from countering Giratina, which is quite useful in itself, but Ho-oh helps them out by luring in and mauling Kyogre, Scarf Palkia, and Scarf Dialga, which can let them destroy teams. Ho-oh also annhilates pretty much every Steel-type that can plague them.
[STUFF FROM THEORYMON]
- Mew
(Taunter, sets up Rocks)
-Starmie
(More offensive rapid spinner)
Dealing with SR (if Rapid Spin doesn't suffice):
- Payback Forretress
You can try catching a Giratina-O on the switch via Payback. Giratina-A will annoy you, though, so use the time to set up more entry hazards.
- Wish support
Allows Ho-oh to swap in with current health should SR be on the field.
- Pursuit / Ticklefett
Stuff like Tyranitar can get rid of Giratina-O easily by Pursuiting it to death. Wobbuffet can also Tickle Giratina, then send in Scizor or TTar to Pursuit it.
After that, find an opening to Rapid Spin
- <probably some statistics here>
Other sets
<Scarf, CB, probably some weird subroostphazing set, etc>
Conclusion:
Now that you've read all of this, why don't you try it out yourself? I guarantee you that Ho-oh is an excellent Pokemon - I have gotten two alts with it to the top 5, and Ho-oh is a helpful member there. But enough. Let us discuss Ho-oh's future trends, your experience with it, and more.