deo-d's already uu. i don't know enough about how uu is right now to confidently say it'll drop from there, but yeah, deo-d is hot garbage at least in this tier
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4 [Volcarona Banned]
- Thread starter TPP
- Start date
I'm Just wondering why you chose Charm of all moves in the 4th moveslot over smth else like Swords Dance, U-turn, Spikes, etc.
If anything it's better now than it was in DLC1
Alright, 
is……. interesting. If you get the Hypno you can probably take out two-three Mons depending on how your opponent plays around the sleep.
is also quite the Tera Hog if you want to run Hypnosis and Nasty Plot, which you have to in order to gain enough firepower. This means pick what beats you. Tera Fairy Tera Blast and 
can wall you. Pick Tera Fighting and 
and 
will give you a headache.
The
set is kinda doomed if the Hypnosis misses. The 
set fairs better but 
can beat it with Dragon Darts. 
can protect and stop Hypnosis after that, and completely wrecks Hypnosis.
To another point, crazily enough, 125 Speed isn’t good enough in this Meta. Scarf, non-Scarf , and Booster 
and 
can swap in and kill it too easily on the Nasty Plot turn, and won’t save you against
walls pretty hard too.
Is OP? Not necessarily. Does everything rely on how one move goes? Pretty much. Does that make uncompetitive? Maybe. But there’s plenty to deal with it.
So overview, if is going to do anything, it has to first land the Hypnosis. In order to take out more than one Mon, it has to hog the Tera.
This is the team I used on an alt, and it’s actually pretty good. Got to like 1500 without trying that hard. https://pokepast.es/694f81c4b833f3fa
One thing I learned, Water Absorb is absolutely epic.
is……. interesting. If you get the Hypno you can probably take out two-three Mons depending on how your opponent plays around the sleep. is also quite the Tera Hog if you want to run Hypnosis and Nasty Plot, which you have to in order to gain enough firepower. This means pick what beats you. Tera Fairy Tera Blast and can wall you. Pick Tera Fighting and and will give you a headache.The
set is kinda doomed if the Hypnosis misses. The set fairs better but can beat it with Dragon Darts. can protect and stop Hypnosis after that, and completely wrecks Hypnosis.To another point, crazily enough, 125 Speed isn’t good enough in this Meta. Scarf
, non-Scarf , and Booster and can swap in and kill it too easily on the Nasty Plot turn, and won’t save you against walls pretty hard too.Is
OP? Not necessarily. Does everything rely on how one move goes? Pretty much. Does that make uncompetitive? Maybe. But there’s plenty to deal with it.So overview, if
is going to do anything, it has to first land the Hypnosis. In order to take out more than one Mon, it has to hog the Tera.This is the team I used on an alt, and it’s actually pretty good. Got to like 1500 without trying that hard. https://pokepast.es/694f81c4b833f3fa
One thing I learned, Water Absorb
is absolutely epic.
Lando and Pex aren't falling off because of power creep. They're "falling off" relative to previous gens because of the massive nerfs both received going into gen 9.
"Power creep" is the most overused phrase this gen. It's like claiming Gen 2 saw massive power creep because Tauros fell off. When it reality it was because it was completely gutted between gens.
I'm not saying there hasn't been power creep this gen, but it annoys me when people use these mons as an example.
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Idk, in someways this mon can still feel shiest, but lacking universal utility options like Knock off and Toxic REALLY hurts in this metagame.Lando-T is an example of a Pokemon hurt greatly by Tera, as many Pokemon it is suppose to check like Iron Boulder and Gouging Fire can just tech Tera Flying and it can't do a single thing about it. At least Gliscor can maybe Toxic or Knock Off these Pokemon, but Lando-T is outta luck.
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Lando-T isn't bad in a vacuum by any means, but losing most of its utility options while also having to compete as a Ground-type with Tusk, Gliscor, Treads, and even Ursaluna really squeezes him out of a meaninful niche in the metagame. He's not totally outclassed, but he is mostly outclassed in the roles he used to fill in past metagames. Being an offensive Ground/Flying is nice, though, and pivoting around with Intimidate and U-Turn is still pretty strong, but if you want a strong Ground that's easy to slap onto most teams, you're probably going with Tusk or Treads, who still have hazard control and knock. If you want hazards, you're probably using Gliscor. If you just want to fuck walls up, then Ursaluna outclasses it. The actual reasons to use Lando-T over other mons have mostly been eliminated.
Darkrai @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Bad Dreams
Tera Type: Fairy / Steel
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Dark Pulse
- Knock Off
- Taunt
- Hypnosis
With all the Krai discussion going around, this is my attempt at making a set to handle bulkier teams and play longer games. Dark Pulse is solely for general damage output, Knock Off playing pivotal in removing the Boots or Leftovers from Pokemon who would switch into it like Ting-Lu or Blissey. Taunt prevents something like Gliscor from setting up Spikes on it and Hypnosis' poor accuracy issues become less apparent in longer games, where Krai'll be able to fire off the move numerous times.
Ability: Bad Dreams
Tera Type: Fairy / Steel
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Dark Pulse
- Knock Off
- Taunt
- Hypnosis
With all the Krai discussion going around, this is my attempt at making a set to handle bulkier teams and play longer games. Dark Pulse is solely for general damage output, Knock Off playing pivotal in removing the Boots or Leftovers from Pokemon who would switch into it like Ting-Lu or Blissey. Taunt prevents something like Gliscor from setting up Spikes on it and Hypnosis' poor accuracy issues become less apparent in longer games, where Krai'll be able to fire off the move numerous times.
lando and pex weren't really power crept rather than actively nerfed. they used to be better than the very mons who are supplanting them now, but those mons got new options, and lando and pex only lost theirs. the real poster kid of power creep to me will always be poor garchomp and its "having specifically 102 speed makes it too much to deal with" to "102 speed? midddd" journey.
Speed creep is very real and it's downright terrifying. Speed has always been the most important stat in Pokemon and while it seemed like things were slowing down in Gen 7, Dragapult singlehandedly raised the bar with its titanic 142 Speed, nevermind Cinderace with its 119. Gen 9 has all these Booster Speed mons, Zamazenta and Darkrai dropping into the tier and so on. It's crazy stuff.
Hatterene is a mon that I thought would be outta a job as we got more options with the DLCs, but the opposite seems to have happened. This mons stocks went to the stratosphere. Our removal did not get remotely better, so the ability to completely nullify Skarn, Gliscor, and Lu is insanely high value utility on offensive structures, esp w/ how difficult it can be to take out in one hit with its bulk + Draining Kiss. Nuzzle is also very troll, giving it more free turns to setup CM or whatever. As far as CM Wincons go, very few mons can truly do what Hat does, nullifying hazards, Toxic, encore, etc w/o Tera.
aaaaand, to beat a dead horse, also reflect Hypnosis back to Valiant and Darkrai, while resisting Valiant fighting STABS and take fuck all from Darkrai's unboosted Dark Pulse.
Noted, tyvm
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Sorry for the late reply, I was at work. Spikes I didn't choose because I already have spikes on Deo-S, so it wouldn't be much worth. While swords dance or u-turn could be used, I have two reasons for choosing charm. 1. It's just funny using charm of all moves. 2. It actually is quite good at forcing switches from a lot of physical attackers. Let's say a Lando switches into you to get off an intimidate and some chip. You can hit them with the charm when they switch and now they aren't doing much damage. Now they have to switch, which I can take advantage of by either hitting them with a move or switching to a mon that would otherwise struggle against a neutral Lando. -2 attack is quite a big decrease in damage, so Ogerpon itself can brawl a lot easier, while supporting it's teamates.
It went from something like 25th to 7th in a month, that's just how good nuzzle + magic bounce is.
Psychic/Fairy does not resist Fairy, for those of you who are wondering about their typechart. Isn't Tera Ghost Shadow Ball a very common IV tech as well?
On my valiant set, I do use that. I kinda came to that conclusion and thought "why is nobody using this tech". Then I immediately saw that it was tech people were using constantly and I was sad because I thought it was a special set that nobody had discovered.
Darkrai is an issue, and Valiant has been floating as an issue for a while now (And was getting popular on the next-to-ban lists of people). The main problem I see is currently the extremely high power levels of the format, leading to pretty much variance causing issues. It's not just sleep, moves hitting, getting unlucky from Contact Abilities (both defending and attacking), Tera guessing, Moveset guessing for some mons...
All of this variance is now adding up, and causes a lot of games to be lost because of these problems. Honestly, we need to weaken the format a bit more first - If sleep is still an issue, it should still be a problem after handling the likes of Darkrai and Valiant/Booster Energy first.
It should be the reverse. Sleep Clause is inherinetly a bad thing to even have as its not replicable on cart
Sleep should be banned first, then if Iron Valiant and Darkrai are still a problem, ban them.
Question to drag us back onto a topic:
How is destiny bond on lead Smeargle? Curious if it would work as first move.
How is destiny bond on lead Smeargle? Curious if it would work as first move.
Probably uniformly worse at grabbing an extra turn for setup than Spore, since Smeargle isn't particularly fast, and a slow DBond is just an invitation to your opponent to set up hazards/screens/boosts, whereas a Sleeping 'mon....can't do those things. If you wanted to actually *kill* something with DBond, you'd likely need something like endure + custap/salac + dbond, at which point you'd be tipping your hand that you're up to something pretty hard.
Max Attack Guts Knock Off does explode just about any version of Gholdengo except 252/252+, notably requiring maximum HP and then some Defense EVs just to not be guaranteed killed from max health. Conk really wants 8 moves for CC, Facade, Knock, Defog, Mach Punch, and three coverage moves, but it's noticeable.
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Gholdengo: 384-452 (101.5 - 119.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Gholdengo: 384-452 (101.5 - 119.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
hello SV OU Metagame Discussion v4 [See Post #2380 for Jan Usage Stats], check out this version of calm mind cobalion somebody just sent me
Cobalion @ Leftovers
Ability: Justified
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Substitute
- Flash Cannon
- Aura Sphere
its a less fast more bulky way of your usual sets, actually rather solid overall
Cobalion @ Leftovers
Ability: Justified
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Substitute
- Flash Cannon
- Aura Sphere
its a less fast more bulky way of your usual sets, actually rather solid overall
You know i used to think this pokemon was trash and a total noobtrap because of its seemingly mid bulk, but its alright, im not a fan of speed investment though
not a fan of CM cobalion tbh, like if I'm gonna get an attack boost from switching into dark moves I wanna use my attack stat
that being said
Cobalion @ Leftovers
Ability: Justified
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 252 HP / 200 Atk / 56 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Sacred Sword
- Iron Head
- Tera Blast
The rare 3 posts in 1 to avoid triple posting:
without hitting it, and with most leads you can either:
Ability: Technician
Tera Type: IDK
??? Nature
IVs: IDK
- Destiny Bond
- Baneful Bunker/Burning Bulwark/Silk Trap/Choice of Hazard
- Choice of Hazard
- Rapid Spin/Mortal Spin
Isn't Smeargle just the pinnacle of 4MSS?
(DARN IT MY ATTEMPT TO STOP SLEEP CONVERSATIONS JUST BROUGHT UP SPORE AARGH)
Scarfed Physical Cobalion
Cobalion @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Justified
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- X-Scissor
- Volt Switch
- Iron Head
It's simple really.
Oh, k, just thought it's a nice way to remove
without hitting it, and with most leads you can either:- Predict setup and Spore them.
- Predict hazards and Rapid spin/Mortal spin (Why does nobody use mortal spin
?) - Predict a switch and
haxspore the incoming mon. - Predict a switch and setup hazards/spin, then they attack and you use burning bulwark/baneful bunker/silk trap and cripple the incoming 'mon.
- They hit you, they die
.
Ability: Technician
Tera Type: IDK
??? Nature
IVs: IDK
- Destiny Bond
- Baneful Bunker/Burning Bulwark/Silk Trap/Choice of Hazard
- Choice of Hazard
- Rapid Spin/Mortal Spin
Isn't Smeargle just the pinnacle of 4MSS?
(DARN IT MY ATTEMPT TO STOP SLEEP CONVERSATIONS JUST BROUGHT UP SPORE AARGH)
Going to 1-Up this with
Scarfed Physical Cobalion
Cobalion @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Justified
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- X-Scissor
- Volt Switch
- Iron Head
It's simple really.
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