252+ SpA Choice Specs Raging Bolt Draco Meteor vs. 244 HP / 12 SpD Gliscor: 454-535 (128.9 - 151.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
I would say Freeze is in the same realm of critical hits of "there's nothing we can really do about it" - its very difficult to isolate and prevent without modding the game, and with a few notable exceptions it's quite rare. In fact, I'd say just one notable exception, Kyurem, which honestly should be suspected. But overall, like critical hits, it's just part of the game that we can't do much about save for banning all ice moves, which at that point why not ban all moves that can crit?
I’m curious how much of this is just trendy vs. actually being good. For example, I’ve been using hypnosis Golduck on rain (wide lens with hydro pump, np, tera psychic psychock) not necessarily cuz it’s good, but because I wanted to test it out to better understand the sleep discussion going on
It's definitely a mix of both, I'd say it's more of an issue with Valiant/Darkrai/Lilligant obviously, since HO tends to punish a lot harder with those free turns. I think sleep is also uniquely a problem when combined with Tera, because we get two different mechanics that lead to creating free setup opportunities for yourself, which can both be abused on top of each other.
Sleep talk and snore are dead slots outside of the times you get slept. Freeze and paralysis are just not the same as sleep, they're distinctly different in the ways they occur and how a player can respond/prevent them. Freeze is completely dependent on rng, has a 10% chance at most to occur, and you have to actually attack to get the status. Their's not even that many mons who currently run an ice move that has a chance to freeze, with kyurem being the main one who threatens the status. Paralysis has multiple prevention methods, and if for some reason you couldn't prevent it, it doesn't completely remove player interaction and even provides some healthy gameplay with the interactions it creates. ( I'm thinking in the case of thunder wave)
Fyi, Quark Drive's set to boost Atk instead of Speed here.
i think it's not uniquely a problem when combined with tera, it's a problem that's existed from the very beginning of competitive pokemon. it was compounded by tera to the point where we can no longer pretend that the archaic crusty 1990s-ass mickey mouse tiering option we were using still works
I meant it in the way that I do think sleep has always been a problem, but it is certainly made worse by it's combination with Tera. Many people bring out the idea that nothing has changed about sleep to make it warrant a ban, but this is certainly a new application of sleep that deserves consideration.
Pokemon Showdown =/= the OU tier. Nobody is suggesting we delete Sleep from Showdown.
Literally nobody is proposing a quickban what are you talking about
this is where the disconnect is. the ban wouldn't be undermining our position as a pokemon simulator at all, but the mod is doing that. because it can't be replicated on cartridge, showdown is technically not a pokemon simulator for any tier that implements it. so we need to get rid of the mod to actually be a proper simulator for the games. and we all know that unrestricted sleep is, objectively, uncompetitive. so the only sensible options are to either rework sleep clause to somehow be replicable on cartridge, or ban sleep moves (almost) entirely. the first option would still run into other issues: it's too complicated for new users, and it doesn't actually solve any of the problems that spurred this discussion in the first place. the only downside of the second option is that it hurts the viability of a handful of mons, and i don't see a problem with this because every tiering action does that to some extent
It's all about perspective. The only real arguement for even keeping dynamax was that it was a generational mechanic and would alienate a portion of the community, mainly more casual players. But it was so overwhelmingly bs that we were willing to take that risk and ban it, and it was absolutely for the better. We need to question whether banning this mechanic which already has contreversy about it is worth it. I don't know for sure if it is, but we should still evaluate how much of the metagame wants it banned, which is what the survey will do for us. If the community doesn't want it banned by a large majority, then I probably wouldn't, because that would be far too much of a risk. However, if they want it banned, then I say go ahead. Some people will be mad with a decision, that will always be the case, we just have to manage the risks.
Godspeed RNG Soldier
Hello Finch, In this survey, will there be a question on whether or not the Sleep Clause should be retained?
UNLIKELY! You people are trying your best to push the "Toxapex fell off" message but it is fake news, Pex is still excellent, and we will never stop using him. He will never be UU
I think iron crown might fall as while I love it, it is kinda outclassed in most of its roles. I feel like ogerpon-cornerstone will rise (no I am not coping), because it does quite well into the metagame. If you can keep sturdy on it, which is much easier with horn leech heal, it can be quite a great revenge killer with being able to take a hit and respond with it's own. I've also found charm to be amazing on it to increase its longevity and force lots of switches, which rack up hazard damage.
Well he actually fell out otherwise he wouldn't be lingering very low in the tier. I actually don't mind it but the power creep is pushing the icons down and if it doesn't fall next month, it will soon. Hell, the king of OU (Lando) is having a hard time right now so anything could happen.mp3
I think Deoxys Defense is a pretty obvious drop candidate. Mons bad. Like, real bad.
