Announcement np: SV OU Suspect Process, Round 6 - The Killing Moon

[VigilanteV8]

I just wanted to share an insane game on the high ladder that just shows how dumb Ursaluna is:

Urasluna, just like usual, was starting to become dangerous with the threat of building up too many calm minds. I terastalizzed poison in order to be able to wall sneaseler. My opponent actually got a sleep with dire claw and he, logically, immediately tried to capitalize on that sleep with Great Tusk. Urasluna, even being ground weak and getting a full sleep turn, was able to out heal the Tusk high horsepowers. Now, even supposing this tusk had 0 EV investments, that's still a 131 base attack STAB super effective 95 base power move with a crucial one turn advantage and that still was not even close to KO that Blood Bear. Luna survived with a wopping 15% health before starting to recover HP with moonlight. Then it proceeded to disintegrate Tusk and Ogerpon (that by the way had zen head and also flinched once, still no match even for psychic weak poison Ursa) essentially winning the game on the spot.

Now this is just one game but, trust me as I got the reqs with this luna team, this kind of situation of Luna surviving extreme circumnstances and then revenge sweeping is far too common. Mon has too many options and its insane bulk just enables some unhealthy situations. Again even if this mon as some weak points the amounts of resources a player has to dedicate to stop that Orbed bear is just unreasonable, thus requiring the ban.

Funniest thing about this game is that I was about to be the one to get 6 oed by bloodmon. I somehow saved it with choice band Roaring moon and even a mon this powerful struggled alot in the process (it didn't even kill, Just left his ursa with very low HP before getting killed by it).

If you are interested I leave the full game, here is the replay: https://play.pokemonshowdown.com/battle-gen9ou-1955511622

(before anyone arguing my opponent was 1700+ and was making solid plays, As I said this situation is very common, Attributing it to bad plays of my opponent would not be honest IMO).

 

[LoseToRU?]

You had ID Corv and ID Zama that were great checks to pretty much all gambits and helped with other mons like baxc, dnite etc. Moltres handled most gambits, prevented it from attacking raw, could check with both attacking and status. It also had a great role checking various threats like physical valiant, dnite, cinderace etc. Great Tusk, the most splashable mon for nearly a year, was a significant barrier for kingambit to cross that's nearly on every team. Just in general, the meta is much better at handling physical threats than special ones. This isn't to downplay how centralizing kingambit is and its ability to circumvent convential counterplay with tweaks, but A) there's a hell of a lot more of that counterplay available in the builder B) those counterplay options have a lot more applicable roles in the meta

Fair points even if tera fairy, flying, ghost and fire, coupled with Lum, handle all of those in some way, depending on counter. But forcing a tera is substantial sometimes, unless it's late game. I argue that some of that counterplay wasn't discovered for quite some time, def longer than 2 weeks. But again, very fair point about the meta being ill-equipped for Spa mons. I saw a lot of those arguments on the Wake thread. I never said BM wasn't broken, I'm just saying that personally, I would have liked more time with it. It feels like the survey scores came back poorly again, and this suspect was thrown up in response. Which is fine. But I can't make the most informed decision given the timeframe. I can make an educated guess at best.

But yeah, I know the thing is insane, and centralizing.

brb, loading up Kommo lol

Kommo-o @ Leftovers
Ability: Soundproof
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Calm Nature
- Protect
- Substitute
- Boomburst
- Taunt

 

[Shadow2054]

The best answer to turn 1 Bloodmoon I've found is another turn 1 Bloodmoon. This isn't an argument either way for how broken it is, but fast UBM completely destroys Trick Room teams. Just lead it turn one and go crazy after the Cresselia dies. It also wrecks Indeedee/Armarouge teams teams which is part of why I like using it.

Well, against another Ursaluna, my team struggles if i dont beat it quick, so I can agree with that. But it's a general weakness of trickroom teams, and it's my fault if I let Ursaluna get enough calm minds to 1v6 through my team. However, most Ursaluna run leftovers, and with some luck(6%), and as long as it isnt tera normal, I can win the Ursaluna vs Ursaluna. Ofc, if I don't feel like gambling the Ursa ditto, I'd go Crawdaunt turn 1, but thats my trickroom team, and I agree that Ursaluna can totally shred trickroom teams anyway.

 

[LoseToRU?]

My bad y'all, it was a slow morning at work lol
This thing is obviously broken :}

 

[WilhelmTheOkay]

2. Encore: ... If you encore an Ursa into Blood Moon, it goes for it repeatedly and doesn’t have a cooldown (I found this out the hard way)..

Just wanted to clarify this point real quick, so this interaction only occurs if the Encore is faster, also it doesn't completely get rid of the cooldown, it essentially resets the move for one turn. A slower Encore will result in Blood Moon acting as you would expect, causing Ursaluna to Struggle if both moves were used on the same turn.

Faster Encore:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9anythinggoes-1955561759

Slower Encore:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9anythinggoes-1955554060

 

[ausma]

View attachment 556306

View attachment 556305
My bad y'all, it was a slow morning at work lol
This thing is obviously broken :}

let's not troll and derail the thread going forward w/ bad faith arguments. thanks

 

[ima]

the timeframe was just right, if not we should have done it earlier. moonlight, scrappy, * blood moon *, hyper voice, vaccum wave, tera, cm, earth power,

pls name a counter to this mon and I will do you one back and give you a set that destroys ur counter. this 'mon has an absurd amount of techs&sets it can run to completely ruin your team, and if you need a sample size outside of ladder, check SCL and Charity bowl.

as already mentioned in this thread, the bulk is already crazy, and when you add up in-game effects (grassy terrain, potential grassy seed +1, veil, tera) what the hell are you going to do to this 'mon? this is easily, top 3 one of the most broken Pokemon under screens you will ever face. (top 1 is annihilape)

as a builder and player, i legitimately cannot build against this pokemon, but i will give a couple "outs" for you:
- Cresselia comes in and clicks moonlight on each blood moon. probably the most solid switch of all time.
- Ting lu under grass terrain, or ting lu with protect can soft check, otherwise +1 blood moon actually does more than half (lol)
- any sub mon, like sub corviknight, can cheese this 'mon fairly well.
- tErA gHosT aIr bAlLoOn WeEzIng-gAlAr
- encore i guess, but i will tell you right now this mon does not need setup to destroy your team

notice how i didn't put gliscor because while you may think protect toxic is a decent answer, you get one play wrong and ur finished. there is also no prediction needed with the seed set - you can just moonlight and cm 50 times until your opponent inevitably protects


so i will repeat again, there is no timeframe where this 'mon could ever be ok. i do not think we suspected this early. in fact, I was on a tangent to council saying we suspected this too late - but there's nothing we can do about it, because the playerbase found out this was broken too late (consistently being voted in survey lower than a quickban). this is the chance to fix the meta by preventing it from becoming an insanely offensive meta, such as how shed tail was pre-home.

lastly, to every stall player, pls observe your counter:

bloodmoond

 

[Goodstyle]

Whoa that body press set is genius.

 

[Dreadfury]

I was originally leaning more towards DNB when this suspect was announced, but after giving it come careful thought I think I'm firmly in the opposite camp now. Which is ironic, considering I thought this thing was gonna be ass when the DLC first released; I will gladly hold that L.

Stall isn't the strongest archetype right now and Blood Moon isn't the biggest reason why whatsoever and Gliscor Balance is still an absolutely fantastic archetype despite Blood Moon's existence, but I've been finding this beast of a mon progressively harder to actually deal with once it comes in. Both CM+3A and especially bulky CM+Moonlight are infuriatingly difficult to switch in against and KO, and I'm finding that Tera Poison easily pushes Bulky BM into unhealthy territory. I've been outspoken about Tera as a mechanic from day 1 and firmly believe Blood Moon would be a lot easier to handle if Tera wasn't a thing, but since this isn't a Tera suspect I suppose dealing with Blood Moon will have to suffice.

Simply put, I just don't think this mon contributes anything positive to this metagame. It has some slightly-exploitable downsides but it's far, far too strong for how impossible the task of taking it down is once it gets a Calm Mind under its belt. I don't think the metagame would be significantly better once Blood Moon gets banned, but I'm also of the mindset that mons like this and pre-HOME Walking Wake don't contribute much in the way of positive things to this meta and that mons that fit this bill have no place in OU.

TL;DR: I'm atrocious at laddering so I doubt I'll get reqs, but if I do I'd definitely be voting BAN. A future OU metagame (like DLC2) might be alright for it, but with the current state of OU in mind I don't think Freddy Fazbear is a positive addition to the tier.

 

[TCTphantom]

Im voting DNB just because the suspect song wasn't Bad Moon Rising by CCR. /s

Blood Moon is just so dumb. CM 3A and CM Moonlight are super strong, especially with Tera. This thing is fat as heck and its even harder to deal with Tera in the tier. Throw in Veil support and how brutal the hazards game is and it makes sense this thing is a beast. Just looking at this thing's stats, you can tell it is meant to crush fat teams. Which is on its own fine. Hoopa U bullies fat teams very well and it isnt even OU. Just punching down on fat teams isn't what breaks this thing though. Its that its exceptional into Offense. Blood Moon is fat and strong enough to reliably trade on offense v offense games. Even on its weaker special defense side, its harder to OHKO than you would expect just because its HP stat is relatively high. Combine that with how restrictive it is in builder, and I think it is worth banning.

 

[malomyotismon]

Well we thought the OG ursaluna was cocaine bear then we get to see the aftermath with its special counterpart the real cocaine bear

 

[sims796]

Now that I've finally learned to use it right,it's close to getting banned. Isn't that great.

No seriously, now that I've learned to use it, I'll be sad to see it go, but I understand.

 

[MisogiKurakawa]

Well we thought the OG ursaluna was cocaine bear then we get to see the aftermath with its special counterpart the real cocaine vear

No, this is what Cocaine Bear becomes when he upgrades to heroin.

 

[Archer Kirby]

Alright so while my thoughts on this mon are still pending, OP's post did bother me in one major way, which was the line " In term of counterplay, there is admittedly a lack of reliable defensive counterplay".

As someone who plays defensively exclusively, this did not vibe with me. If this was regarding Offensive defense like offensive mons trying to deal with this after losing a mon or something then sure, but in terms of defensive playstyles like stall, we have a ton of options available and as a stall player I've not once felt this mon was oppressive or broken compared to other mons right now.

DLC1 Gave players like me two things, defensive mons and toxic, and this is huge because several mons got both. Mandibuzz and Gliscor are both capable of eating a +1 Blood Moon with investment to spare, if the Ursaluna isn't max spa, you don't even need Spd investment on the Mandi and since Gliscor runs protect, even if you weren't Spd invested and it was max Spa, you'd 1) Still outspeed and 2) give it mindgames with protect. But more importantly, both can toxic it and once that's done, that threat is neutered and the Unaware Clef/Switching around just deals with it from there. The fact that it can't spam Blood Moon makes it even more predictable after its used it.

Fezandipiti is the same. with max HP/SPD which is great for other mons like Val you'll still outspeed max Speed Ursaluna and even if Max Spa investment EP hurts at +0, this is assuming its not Vacuum Wave and even then burning roost to heal up to full even if you can't do it forever still really helps when its other move has that drawback and at +1 you live anything and simply toxic like the above threats. Then there's the elephant in the room, or the fat blob, Blissey, which has CM to deal with Ghold and anything less of a crit it just sits on Ursaluna. This is also true if it Teras. Add in other mons like Clefable with Unaware with Moonblast and Knock to reduce its Spa so other team members can tag in or to force it to heal more while Clef is tanking attacks and I feel there's enough consistent defensive counterplay. I could mention mons like min speed Corvi underspeeding to be immune to EP all the time while spamming body press while pressure takes those Blood Moons but you get the point.

Vs offensive teams though, I can see why its a different beast. usually offensive behemoths are either frail, slow, lack reliable recovery or a combination of these traits and Ursaluna has none. 113/120/60 is insanely tanky on the physical side for something with 135 spa hitting you with 140 stab that you have no immunity to. With Vacuum Wave it can make up for its lower speed but also deal with threats like Greninja or Non Tera Gambit that would have otherwise forced you out or swept. While Moonlight is semi-reliable at best, weather is the rarest its been for a long time. Sand is basically non-existent and Snow is the Glowking show since the Bax ban which reduced Alotales usage at least from my experience. While Sun and Rain still exist, Sun helps due to Moonlight healing more so yeah, Moonlight looking pretty reliable, making its CM sets even more annoying to take down.

Another straw on the Camerupt's back was definitely Mind's Eye though, making it so mons like Ghold who completely stops it with Balloon otherwise or Pult which would have a much easier time switching in, just get nuked, further reducing the already small pool of offensive options not even including the mons that enjoy going Tera Ghost to bock spin.

Ultimately at the moment, I'm not sure what to vote. From my experience and due to how I play, I don't find the mon an issue and enjoy it keeping mons like Gambit in line, though from a wider perspective, I can definitely see the mon can be causing an issue. If I feel the same once I get reqs, I'll probably vote no ban though. Not happy with how rushed this suspect is, both in how early it feels and how this suspect is running for a shorter time, especially for a newer mon, at least with Chien-Pao we had it for a long time so we already had strong opinions.

 

[Pando067]

This is the Perfect Bloodmoon Ursaluna Counter!

Eelektross @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 112 HP / 252 Atk / 144 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Gastro Acid
- Focus Punch
- Substitute
- Wild Charge

Turn ghost, gastro acid, ggs. Focus punch does a lot of damage and wild charge for stab against tera water. Levitate + Tera Ghost + Gastro Acid = No moves that bm luna can use (aside from moonblast that's uncommon). All jokes aside though, bm luna is pretty broken, given it's incredible bulk, high spatk, good movepool, amazing ability, and outstanding longevity. I would vote BAN if I could get reqs, but alas, I just suck...

 

[Moyashi]

DLC1 Gave players like me two things, defensive mons and toxic, and this is huge because several mons got both. Mandibuzz and Gliscor are both capable of eating a +1 Blood Moon with investment to spare,

Mandibuzz does jack squat back to it past trying to land toxic which does jack squat to tera poison variants, and Gliscor requires a significant amount of spdef to not fold to +1 blood Moon.

since Gliscor runs protect, even if you weren't Spd invested and it was max Spa, you'd 1) Still outspeed and 2) give it mindgames with protect.

Relying on protect mindgames is not reliable and more likely to just end up forcing you to stare down a boosted BM with little recourse.

But more importantly, both can toxic it and once that's done, that threat is neutered and the Unaware Clef/Switching around just deals with it from there. The fact that it can't spam Blood Moon makes it even more predictable after its used it.

Toxic does not instant neuter a BM. It still will get work done in the time it has, being immensely threatening. And Unaware Clef is generally not great outside handling Moon.

Fezandipiti is the same

Fez is complete garbage so...

 

[Archer Kirby]

Mandibuzz does jack squat back to it past trying to land toxic which does jack squat to tera poison variants, and Gliscor requires a significant amount of spdef to not fold to +1 blood Moon.



Relying on protect mindgames is not reliable and more likely to just end up forcing you to stare down a boosted BM with little recourse.



Toxic does not instant neuter a BM. It still will get work done in the time it has, being immensely threatening. And Unaware Clef is generally not great outside handling Moon.



Fez is complete garbage so...

Landing Toxic is enough, as it puts Ursaluna on that much needed Timer that allows it to be played around. Gliscor only gets folded by a +1 if Blood Moon is running max spa and you don't have a lot of investment, something Ursa doesn't always run, and if it is, then you outspeed anyways and can put it on that timer if you had no other option, protect is just another added issue for the Blood Moon player as one wrong predict on their part leaves them wide open.

Toxic doesn't immediately neuter a BM but it doesn't need to, I've never not been able to play around one with ease after said Toxic since its taking at least 3 turns to kill your unware user (and lets be honest the unaware mon is gonna heal) and if it doesn't setup past +1, you don't even have to go hard into it. Clef is also great outside of Ursaluna, it's the only unaware user that doesn't fold to Manaphy one of the biggest threats atm imo without having to waste a tera and even then Clod can't even go Tera Water due to Eball and Wish has more recovery. It also deals with Iron Val much easier since again, unlike Clod, it can eat up Special variants for breakfast, not fearing a Psyshock, losing Soft-Boiled sucked, but this is still Clef as we've known.

Fez is definitely not complete garbage, its got an amazing typing (imo) and great ability with good bulk and reliable recovery. I don't know its place in the meta atm, but also not something I look at and think UR, its just not a splashable mon.

In Regards to Tera Poison Variants, even not considering the cost of them using their Tera you still have mons that can deal with it. Options like Ting-Lu can now just spam EQ and at max investment really doesn't care about what Ursa is doing since Leftovers is healing it as its clicking Moonlight trying to avoid the 3hko (or 2hko if less bulk) and it can also be whirlwinded outta there if it does reach +3 or more. Clodsire can also equally just decide to Tera and have an easier time dealing with it, and if it really had to, can bring in Haze over a non essential move to help its team and again Blissey sits on whatever set. Clef also technically walls this due to Blood Moon + Moonlight being 16pp total, so if its EP you can use all its PP and if its Vacuum it can't threaten you. There are options to safely handle this.

 

[viivian]

View attachment 556291

kingambit counterplay is much more straightforward and it already has its own merit outside of kingambit. bloodmoon ursaluna counterplay on the other hand has forced defensive teams to run bullshit sets that would otherwise be considered bad just so they can answer it. like im not super adamant about wanting to ban BM ursaluna (<-- this aged terribly btw) but this comparison is just so blatantly wrong

 

[shawk*+:)]

Before I give my opinion on the suspect, I feel like I do need to touch on the issue around lot of unnessary hate towards stall players and council members in this thread. Coming as someone who isn’t exempt from the former, I have to say that this is completely unnecessary and just childish. Reminder that it isn’t cash money to think that your opinion is 100% factual and better than everyone else’s. (Especially when the people in question have been putting in more effort, time and experience in creating the tier that you play on & brag about.)

Now onto the suspect in question.


To be honest, this is one of those suspect tests that I didn't really understand until actually laddering. Unlike Gambit, which I thought was pretty containable in the tier, Bloodmoon actually has too much set versatility that has no solid answers due to recency. While I do think that letting the tier settle is the best bet, I can't overlook the fact that this Pokémon has a lot of things going for it and not a lot of things that can stand against it.

Therefore, I’m going to be voting ban.

 

[Moyashi]

Landing Toxic is enough, as it puts Ursaluna on that much needed Timer that allows it to be played around. Gliscor only gets folded by a +1 if Blood Moon is running max spa and you don't have a lot of investment, something Ursa doesn't always run, and if it is, then you outspeed anyways and can put it on that timer if you had no other option, protect is just another added issue for the Blood Moon player as one wrong predict on their part leaves them wide open.

Landing toxic will inevitably wear it down, but usually not fast enough to be as effective as it should be if you're facing a competent BM user. As the one facing it, you're the one who has to make the right plays as otherwise you risk losing a Pokemon, or giving it free set up. Its presence alone forces you to act and play around it. Also BM runs bulk quite often. And again, protect mindgames are worse for you than them, because the upside of you getting a turn right is you stalling one turn while if they get a turn right, will either result in damage or a CM. And for BM users, it's not hard to make that call as it's easy to get accustomed to.

Clef is also great outside of Ursaluna, it's the only unaware user that doesn't fold to Manaphy one of the biggest threats atm imo without having to waste a tera and even then Clod can't even go Tera Water due to Eball and Wish has more recovery. It also deals with Iron Val much easier since again, unlike Clod, it can eat up Special variants for breakfast, not fearing a Psyshock, losing Soft-Boiled sucked, but this is still Clef as we've known.

Clef itself is good, but Unaware isn't. Without Guard you are heavily at risk of being overwhelmed by hazards unless running boots, but if you run boots then the lack of lefties really shines a light on Clef's only modest bulk which makes it easy to abuse. Manaphy is easier to handle with Pokemon like OverponW who can encore it, and general pressure by faster threats. Dondozo also can generally help play around Manaphy while being a better Pokemon with Unaware. Clef as we known has always been about Mguard first, and that's its best version. It doesn't need Unaware for Valiant anyways.

Fez is definitely not complete garbage, its got an amazing typing (imo) and great ability with good bulk and reliable recovery. I don't know its place in the meta atm, but also not something I look at and think UR, its just not a splashable mon.

Yes it is. I even tried to defend it early on, but using it just showed it has no real niche worth using. It's specially fat but extremely passive, easy to abuse and do nothing. Doesn't matter how good its typing is.

In Regards to Tera Poison Variants, even not considering the cost of them using their Tera you still have mons that can deal with it. Options like Ting-Lu can now just spam EQ and at max investment really doesn't care about what Ursa is doing since Leftovers is healing it as its clicking Moonlight trying to avoid the 3hko (or 2hko if less bulk) and it can also be whirlwinded outta there if it does reach +3 or more. Clodsire can also equally just decide to Tera and have an easier time dealing with it, and if it really had to, can bring in Haze over a non essential move to help its team and again Blissey sits on whatever set. Clef also technically walls this due to Blood Moon + Moonlight being 16pp total, so if its EP you can use all its PP and if its Vacuum it can't threaten you. There are options to safely handle this.

Right. I've really come to hate the "but tera has a cost" arguments when discussing suspect or banworthy Pokemon. It always feels like a copout argument to say why it's not a big deal. BM uses it extremely well so the cost is very minimal, and grants it very accessable set up that turns would be answers into food.

Ting Lu gets worn down by all it has to check, especially spikes which BM loves, and so it isn't especially difficult to break through for a skilled BM user. Clodsire... just no. You're burning tera and now are vulnerable to all the stuff you put it on a team to handle (and offensive BM trucks it anyways). And if you're running haze on clod... I think that says it all. Also many Clod run Water Absorb for Wake anf Greninja, and if you are the. BM just beats you through CM.

There's very little true defensive counterplay, especially counterplay that is also good vs the rest of the meta.

 

[kd458]

Based on some more ladder play and responses to this thread, I feel like Ban is likely what I'll be voting. The only answer to it that really fits well on a more offensive build is Sub Scor, which is a big kneecap to a mon that already struggles with moveslots (EQ is a necessity and either Toxic or Spikes need to be dropped to slot sub, unless you run no Protect which imo is a pretty bad loss), and Tera Poison Grassy Seed dodges 3HKO from EQ with little defensive investment even outside of terrain. A more defensive spread such as the listed sample one can even dodge 4HKO, making it feasible to stall out EQs if terrain is up as you come in. It's possible to revenge kill or force out, but half of the 'answers' getting listed are setup fodder and only good for one pivot (non-ID Corv in particular). Offence can't deal with it purely via offensive pressure. Even without Tera or Seed, an offensive BM can tank super effective physical hits like +1 Body Press from Zamazenta and Valiant's CC, while after CM boosts, revenge killing on the special side can be equally difficult. It's definitely not a mon without answers (and maybe not the worst mon to deal with in the current meta) but it's very constricting in the builder and has too much survivability for a mon this bulky and offensively threatening.

 

[yanmega fan 87]

its an odd case with blood moon on one hand it has nothing that can swatch into it but on the other hand it is on the slow side and... ok this one is a stumper

 

[ianlazerbeem]

its an odd case with blood moon on one hand it has nothing that can swatch into it but on the other hand it is on the slow side and... ok this one is a stumper

Not a stumper at all. What switches into it? What can get in and outspeed it to no consequence? It also has vacuum wave

 

[ty.dmnd]

Cringe elo shaming. It's ladder dude lmao. Regardless, I've peaked ladder in the past 3 gens at least once. It doesn't really matter if I'm a barely above average casual or literally ass to make a point about poor decisions for the tier.

Just want to bring a random post to your attention:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threa...ss-round-3-sleepwalking.3717388/#post-9532605

This post is Finch saying how broken Wake is. 22 Like/Love reactions. Dead wrong opinion.
Goofy hater comments from sycophants and laugh ratios don't phase me whatsoever on this site, and often says more about you than it does me.
There are posts on that thread where I'm saying how Wake isn't broken, how the suspect is way too soon, and our tier leader laugh reacts it, prompting dudes like you to follow and also laugh react lol.

Idk man, the kid is just a guy. We all make mistakes. Testing something like this where it might pass because it hasn't been given enough time is poor tiering policy. Same with testing far too late, like Gambit. The fact that DLC was around the corner gave Gambit the edge it needed to pass. If we suspected it 2 months ago it was gone.



So you admit you can rush a suspect and handle it poorly. We knew that already. I'm asking why. I'm asking you to do some self-reflecting and engage the possibility the you are making the same exact error. I ask why to put you in the same mindset you were when you thought Wake was an Uber... because it seems to be happening again. Another knee jerk, premature suspect.

List a switch in to Specs Tera Fairy Val, or +2 fallen 5 Kotow, etc. Blissey comes in cleanly, Clod can tera, Gking can tera, Pex can tera.
You know what else has almost no switch ins besides dedicated spd walls? Wake in Sun. Are we handling that just fine? Yeah. And Wake can use Hydro Steam twice in a row.

I have a history of going too hard, then feeling bad about it. But rarely have I been proven dead wrong. It's more so how I go about it than the actual point. You've even said this.
This is less about the mon and more about how needlessly fast this suspect was laid out. We have DLC2 around the corner. There was nothing wrong with giving this mon more time.

You took on this role. If you don't have the bandwidth for it then I'm not sure how I'm supposed to respond to that. Maybe delegate some tasks. You do have a council to support you. Maybe it all being put on you is how we get Wake suspects and this one. Not sure.
I've said many times I respect your efforts and love all the time and energy you put into the tier. You don't need to take my critiques as hateful. But yeah, it's too late now. The suspect is up and it is what it is. If the mon gets banned that's fine. I'm just saying, personally, I can't form a proper opinion given this little amount of time. That's all I wanted to say. No need for a response. Happy birthday dude.

View attachment 556291

i like this guy

 

[AK]

Finch and CTC put it better than I ever will, but I’ll be voting BAN on Blood Moon. The counterplay just isn’t there and using unviable counters such as CM Cress, Corviknight, Blissey (have fun losing all momentum), AB Gholdengo (lol), or « getting the play right with Gliscor » is in no way healthy for the metagame. All Blood Moon does is promote cheese and brainless shenanigans. Also the it’s too early argument is stupid and uneducated, nothing will ever come out of nowhere and suddenly make it okay, this isn’t a « the metagame has not been explored enough » issue whatsoever.