Project ZU Research Week (Week 3: Alcremie & Ivysaur)

Tuthur

haha
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OP stolen from NU Research Week thread | Hosted by Tuthur | Approved by 5gen and S1nn0hC0nfirm3d

Welcome to the first edition of SS ZU Research Week!

tl;dr description:
  • We provide two Pokemon for you to research; usually, one will be a frequently used Pokemon with a new set, while the other is an uncommon Pokemon.
  • Anyone interested in testing them out creates a ladder alt and ladders with these Pokemon.
  • After laddering, players discuss their thoughts about the Pokemon. Sharing the the sets you used on the research Pokemon or the team(s) you used to ladder is very helpful!
  • Whoever has the highest ladder score at the end of the week will be declared the winner
Keep the following things in mind during every Research Week:
  • Be open-minded. Don't just say something is terrible and walk away; look at its stats, typing and movepool and think something up!
  • In return, we will try to explain why each Pokemon/set is chosen and suggest ways to make it succeed.
  • Feel free to theorymon early in the research period, but make it clear you're doing so. Later in the period, however, you will be expected to back up your posts with hard evidence like logs, actual sets, and perhaps even teams.
  • Just because an analysis has been done for a Pokemon doesn't mean there isn't more to explore; it's very likely that something has gone unnoticed.
  • Do not(Underline) post in this thread complaining about the Pokemon or movesets we choose and / or suggesting ones we should do for future weeks!
  • Please PM us any suggestions, complaints, or other feedback, and we will be happy to talk discuss it.
  • My Discord is Tuthur#4061; you're also welcome to VM / PM me on Smogon.
A few things to clarify:
  • You can sign up any time in the week, but the week will always end on the weekend.
  • Early period means the first week of the Research Week, so let's keep the theorymonning to a minimum after this period.
  • The late period refers to the last week of the research week, where raw evidence and discussion should become the basis of the thread.
  • Discussion is mandatory in order to be considered as a winner of Research Week.
  • You must make one somewhat-coherent post that describes the Pokemon that you're using, their roles, and their niche in the metagame, you will be disqualified from winning this week.
  • Please post about your experiences regardless of whether you think you will win, we appreciate it!
  • Post and save your replays. Often, these replays are the most informative sources of information about RW Pokemon - you can write paragraphs about the role of a Pokemon, but watching it in battle can be even more informative.
  • If you have anything to say about any of these Pokemon, please post about them!
  • You are encouraged to talk about these Pokemon in the ZU chat on Pokemon Showdown, in the official ZU Discord, and in the Viability Ranking and Metagame Discussion Threads.
In order to participate you must do the following:
  • Post here with a fresh RW alt (such as ZURW Tuthur ou ZURW Apagogie) and the name(s) of the Pokemon you will be using.
  • Use at least one of the Pokemon being researched!
  • Post your experiences with the Pokemon you're using; participate in the discussion!
  • Post logs of this Pokemon in action against other teams - show rather than just tell
  • The winner of the challenge will be the person who has the highest ladder ranking on the Pokemon Showdown ZU ladder with their RW alt at the time the challenge ends.
  • Winners will also receive a permanent spot in this thread's Hall of Fame.
[Sprite/Video/Banner/Image/(Not mandatory]
Introduction (Doesn't need to be long)
Set(s)
Discussion(Pros/Cons/Replays/Calculations)
Conclusion
[Week 3: :ss/alcremie::ss/ivysaur:]
 
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Tuthur

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Week 1:
:ss/silvally:
Silvally @ Life Orb
Ability: RKS System
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Work Up
- Multi-Attack
- Flamethrower
- Shadow Ball / Crunch

Silvally is mostly seen as a Choice attacker with Choice Scarf or Choice Band, however it can successfully run a mixed set that lets it beat its usual checks like weakened Tangela, Ferroseed, and Cofagrigus. Is this uncommun wallbreaker worth using in the current metagame?

You can use any sort of mixed attacking version of Silvally-Normal instead of Work Up as long as you're not using Choice Band or Choice Scarf as item and invest heavily in offensive stats.

:ss/cradily:
Cradily is an underexplored Pokemon in the tier that has a wide movepool with options like Stealth Rock, Recover, Meteor Beam, Swords Dance, and Curse. It has a unique typing letting it threaten common Grass checks like Articuno and Centiskorch, and an immunity to Water letting it handle dangerous threats like Kingler and Basculin.

You can use any moveset, spread, item, and ability on Cradily. The goal here is to let Cradily shine in some way.

In order to participate you must follow instructions at bottom of OP.
Use the prefix ZURW1 on your ladder alts this week.
 
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traveling and stuff so writing a day early
Introduction (Doesn't need to be long)
Set(s)
Discussion(Pros/Cons/Replays/Calculations)
Conclusion

So I'm really terrible at writing and dwell on everything so this is gonna be hell
I used life orb work up silvaly and with 2 work ups you can p much sweep everything it is good at applying pressure ig if that makes sense.
Silvally @ Life Orb
Ability: RKS System
EVs: 112 Atk / 144 SpA / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Work Up
- Flamethrower
- Shadow Ball
- Multi-Attack
this is the set I used
this is like a pros and cons part but considering I dont get out of low ladder this is prolly all wrong but this is what i noticed
pros: this can sweep, good at making oppenint panic ig.
cons: can be hard to set up ig i had problems setting up on anything that wasn't a rocks setter or something that doesn't do much damage at all or ist faster.
Conclusion: this can be really good, I don't see why this doesn't become the primary set used on silvallys.
thx for coming to this shit show
 

Corthius

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I won't be able to ladder on the weekend so im done for this one.
1618554913861.png
:Cradily:
I've used both a defensive and a Rock Polish-Meteor Beam offensive set. I really really dislike this pokemon. It tries to be so many things at once but it fails to do pretty much all of them.
It's a rock type that can't check Articuno nor Centiskorch, it's a water immunity that is weak to ice and U-turn, it's a grass type not able to check Silvally-Ground at all etc etc. The offensive set can surprise people but its far from consistent at beating teams and will stay a gimmick. The defensive set lacks in the mentioned points and also has 4MSS. Recover is mandatory, a grass move is important if you want to check water types, a rock move can help with the Centiskorch and Articuno matchup, Stealth Rock adds utility which makes it worth considering in the first place, Toxic makes it less passive and punishes switchins, Leech Seed is great to rack up damage. Ig only running STABs/Rocks/Recover is fine but that way you auto lose to Altaria.
I don't think this pokemon is anything but very very niche/gimmick, it hardly did what I needed it to do.

:Silvally:
This pokemon on the other hand was surprisingly fun to use. Multi Attack boosted by Life Orb is a really good nuke to fall back to when you face pokemon like Calm Mind Alcremie. Shadow Ball + Flamethrower basically hits everything for neutral damage and abuses the weaker SpD from common switchins like Cofagrigus and Qwilfish. The biggest issue I had while using it was giving up my Silvally slot for anything else but ground. The loss in utility forces me to either run another ground type which is not nearly as good or forgo a ground type which makes the team a lot weaker against opposing electric types like Rotom and Manectric (Ig Cradily can decently check this lol). With these issues in mind I just used it on offense teams where I don't need to switch all that much anyway and it is amazing at softening the opposing team.

The whack team I used: https://pokepast.es/83dbfac9c0e1c459
Unfortunately I always forget to safe replays and only have this one: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1320551098
Iirc I won a room tour with this team so the replay should be uploaded.
 

:cradily:

Cradily @ Leftovers
Ability: Storm Drain
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic / Rock Blast / Earth Power
- Recover
- Giga Drain

This set was the first one I used and I found it was pretty decent. It's odd typing + Storm drain + pretty good bulk allows it to check electrics like rotom and manectric (bar getting tricked and you still can do an okay job), normal types like kangaskhan and water types like basculin and a soft check to kingler and clawitzer while on the other hand the typing leaves you weak to fighting attacks from poliwrath sawk and gurdurr and easily gets u-turned on for super effective. Recover and rocks are mandatory on this set as you need to stay healthy and rocks is a really nice tool which obviously supports your team. I'd also say giga drain is necessary becuase otherwise it makes it harder to check pokemon like basculin and kingler especially. Toxic puts the pokemon on a timer, rock blast actually hits articuno and centiskorch for big damage and earth power is nice for the steel types. Pros about this set are it can be really annoying with toxic + recover, makes the water, rain and choiced types have to predict around it which can also be irritating, I have found it is also really nice for 1v1ing cm mons like alcremie with status and recovery, and is pretty good at pressuring down some defensive/passive teams with status and rocks. Some cons I found are that it hates status, passive damage like hazards, u-turn weak, and can just sit in the back and do absolutely nothing.


Cradily @ Power Herb
Ability: Storm Drain
EVs: 20 HP / 252 SpA / 236 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rock Polish
- Giga Drain
- Meteor Beam
- Earth Power
This set is a meme but sometimes it can be legit and catch your opponent of guard. Modest gives you the most power and 236 speed outspeeds base 115s like cincinno and persian alola +2 with the rest for some extra bulk . Giga drain is for stab and a semi-recovery and earth power hits steels and fires if you have fired off your meteor beam. Meteor beam is the main attraction of this set as it takes 1 turn and hits pokemon like frosmoth altaria articuno and centiskorch and ohkos them with ease. The main problem about this set is scarf sawk who just comes in and will kill you with a close combat so team support for it is pretty much required. Other pokemon like ferroseed just wall you outright so team support for that is also nice to have. Prediction is also a pain for this set as you do kill pokemon like centiskorch, articuno but they read it and sack/ make something else take the hit which means you have a harder time breaking them as they will status you or attack you as you need another turn to fire another meteor beam.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1320007869-m8ojuxkkzizr2l608oc91jc3d6xfa61pw - cradily allowed to many turns to set up and sweep.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1320004134-i4vr5kl4ng3bx2oh1w3e14v0q3q2r02pw- not the most viable team, but cradily sucessfully sweeps.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1321235790-1nw08hd262ip4di06it7so5kve97zqgpw- late game cradily is able to trade with the annoying sub liepard.

So overall cradily is a nice but average pokemon who struggles to be consistent like other low ranked pokemon and has it's pros and cons, but when needed, it will can get the job done and a good team player.
 

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