-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Project ZU Community Create-A-Team [Round 4: Submit]
- Thread starter BloodAce
- Start date
5gen's Shiftry + Muk core has won in the voting phase for Round 1. Nominations for round 2 have began and will end on Sunday February 24th. Be sure to nominate Pokemon that synergize well with the established core.
Team so far: https://pokepast.es/c89f94140e7066c4
Team so far: https://pokepast.es/c89f94140e7066c4
Golem @ Chople Berry
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 32 Atk / 224 Def
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge / Rock Blast
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 32 Atk / 224 Def
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge / Rock Blast
I'm going to have to be boring/lame and recommend Defensive Golem for the team's rocker. Our offensive core is pressured by most of the attackers in the tier, but we can patch its Rapidash-Electivire weakness.
Adding Chople allows Golem to switch into a Close Combat from Monferno (Shiftry's best switch-in right now) and Silv-Fight and serve as an emergency check to Physical Busken. It also has the advantage of allowing us to bluff Weakness Policy by showing no lefties.
Golem also threatens Mawile and can Toxic whatever comes in after Maw is forced out. This is especially important since Mawile counters both elements of the offensive core.
Golem's weakness is its susceptibility to the Special attacks it is weak to (Grass, Water), which both Muk and Shiftry are able to absorb.
Golem Provides the following for the team:
- Rocks (duh)
- Electric immunity
- Mawile switchin/threat
- Electivire switch-in (if it locks itself into EQ, we can bring in Shiftry and defog/synth/do whatever we want)
- Rapidash switch-in
- Toxic-user (this is especially important for crippling Gourgeist, which makes Muk's job much easier later on)
- Monferno switch-in*
- Ability to prevent 6-0 from opposing Muk without relying on our own Muk to do it
- Emergency SD Busken check
I guess we could go with an offensive Golem, but I believe having the physical glue that Golem can provide will be very valuable.
Last edited:
Golem-Alola @ Choice Band
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Fire Punch
- Volt Switch
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Fire Punch
- Volt Switch
I'll add Golem-Alola. It traps the likes of Mawile and Bronzor more reliably than Probo, pairing well with Muk and is a solid breaker too, moreso than people expect. Volt Switch provides nice momentum to Shiftry, giving us more opportunities to bring it in. Note that due to the unorthodox Shiftry set, we can't rely on it for breaking as much as we could say LO Mixed or SD. Golem-Alola fixes that issue to an extent, which is more than welcome.
Notable weaknesses are Ground-types, thought Lefties Synth Shiftry helps there, and a lack or rocks and Elec immunity, but I do think this is a better partner than Golem, especially defensive Golem. We really can't afford to lose that much momentum and breaking power in this slot. For future slots we'd need a rock setter, preferably another pivot, and most importantly, a fuck ton of Speed, but all of those are doable, especially if we decide to go an offensive route, which we should with AGolem.
Bronzor @ Eviolite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 132 Def / 124 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Toxic
- Psywave
- Stealth Rock
- Rest
Bronzor is a good rocker for this team, as it covers both of Muk's weaknesses in Ground and Psychic, while Muk can absorb Knock Off and check a few Fire-types like Special Combusken for Bronzor. Paired with a proper Fire-resist and a more reliable check to Shiftry (bulky Dragonvally would be my choice), these two can handle alot of the metagame.
The EV Spread I prefer is more physically defensive since Muk is very specially bulky as is. The Special Defense means Scarf Electivire's Flamethrower is a 4HKO after rocks. (4 SpA Electivire Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 124 SpD Eviolite Bronzor: 82-98 (25.7 - 30.8%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock)
I don't understand the need for a trapper on this team at all. Yes, all CROMuks enjoy steels being off the field, but it's not a complete necessity if they are dealt with in another way (in this case, a combination of Shiftry and your choice of EQ-carrying mons).
Let's look at the relevant Steel-types who would typically stop Muk's sweep
- Bronzor
- Mawile
- Metang
- Probopass
- ???
Of these, Shiftry squarely pressures and defeats two (Zor + Metang), either Knocking them or defogging on them. In practicality, this may require absorbing a Toxic, but it's well worth it in most scenarios, especially since we are lefties + Synth.
Golem takes care of Metang as well, and destroys Mawile and Probopass, while providing a significant amount of other utility for the team. By choosing it over a trapper, you are only missing out on completely trapping (and, in the case of Probopass, dubiously eliminating) Bronzor, which you already have one countermeasure for (not to mention the fact that we still have 3 mons left after this).
Picking Probopass creates its own issues because, like I mentioned, it's really not all that effective at eliminating Bronzor anyways. Psywave is shockingly always a 3HKO, which means that you have to completely sack your rocker in exchange for theirs after getting up rocks, which effectively removes rocks from the game once one side defogs. In addition to performing poorly as a Bronzor-eliminator, Prob compounds the existing Ground weakness introduced by Muk and also gets completely destroyed by Monferno CC. I understand that Golem can only switch into both of these things a few times, but it's better than none at all.
Alolem, while awesome and fun to use, suffers from some of the same problems as Probopass. It eliminates Zor more quickly, but it always gets toxic'd to do it (which is fine, but not especially appreciated on a slow mon). After this job is done, I have found Alolem to be more of a liability than help in a lot of scenarios; it is too slow to threaten most of the tier effectively and its weaknesses are both exploitable and compounded by our existing composition. Also, going with Alolem limits which rockers we can choose, as we don't want to add another water weakness to the team. Relying on Shiftry as a ground-and-rock switch-in is questionable at best, even on an offensive team.
I disagree that we should go offensive with this team by merit of the core; we have a non-SD/sweeper Shiftry and a lategame setup wincon. Neither of those screams 'offense' or 'defensive synergy be damned' to me.
Let's look at the relevant Steel-types who would typically stop Muk's sweep
- Bronzor
- Mawile
- Metang
- Probopass
- ???
Of these, Shiftry squarely pressures and defeats two (Zor + Metang), either Knocking them or defogging on them. In practicality, this may require absorbing a Toxic, but it's well worth it in most scenarios, especially since we are lefties + Synth.
Golem takes care of Metang as well, and destroys Mawile and Probopass, while providing a significant amount of other utility for the team. By choosing it over a trapper, you are only missing out on completely trapping (and, in the case of Probopass, dubiously eliminating) Bronzor, which you already have one countermeasure for (not to mention the fact that we still have 3 mons left after this).
Picking Probopass creates its own issues because, like I mentioned, it's really not all that effective at eliminating Bronzor anyways. Psywave is shockingly always a 3HKO, which means that you have to completely sack your rocker in exchange for theirs after getting up rocks, which effectively removes rocks from the game once one side defogs. In addition to performing poorly as a Bronzor-eliminator, Prob compounds the existing Ground weakness introduced by Muk and also gets completely destroyed by Monferno CC. I understand that Golem can only switch into both of these things a few times, but it's better than none at all.
Alolem, while awesome and fun to use, suffers from some of the same problems as Probopass. It eliminates Zor more quickly, but it always gets toxic'd to do it (which is fine, but not especially appreciated on a slow mon). After this job is done, I have found Alolem to be more of a liability than help in a lot of scenarios; it is too slow to threaten most of the tier effectively and its weaknesses are both exploitable and compounded by our existing composition. Also, going with Alolem limits which rockers we can choose, as we don't want to add another water weakness to the team. Relying on Shiftry as a ground-and-rock switch-in is questionable at best, even on an offensive team.
I disagree that we should go offensive with this team by merit of the core; we have a non-SD/sweeper Shiftry and a lategame setup wincon. Neither of those screams 'offense' or 'defensive synergy be damned' to me.
Misdreavus @ Eviolite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Taunt
- Hex
- Foul Play
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Taunt
- Hex
- Foul Play
Misdreavus rounds off Shiftry+Muk well with its resistances and defensive utility; checking Pinsir, Golem (so Shiftry isn't as pressured by Stone Edge), Bouff, Mime, etc. It also appreciates Shiftry+Muk's ability to switch into Knock Off. Could run Pain Split on the set, but I think it's not easy to fit given how each move is specifically useful.
The voting phase for R2 has began. You have until Sunday to get your votes in for the set you want to have added to the team. Do not vote for your own submission.
The choices are:
Physically Defensive Golem
Trapper Probopass
Choice Band Alolan Golem
Mixed Defensive Bronzor
Utility Misdreavus
The choices are:
Physically Defensive Golem
Trapper Probopass
Choice Band Alolan Golem
Mixed Defensive Bronzor
Utility Misdreavus
ImKoolKidz
I COULD BE BANNED!
graceclaw’s defensive golem
Dollainthewoods
Breakfast, Lunch, and Dinner’s for Beginners
Defensive golem bc gracelcaw is the goat and golem is too
Sorry for the delay, Graceclaw's physically defensive Golem has won in the voting phase for Round 2. Nominations for round 3 have began and will end on Saturday March 9th. Be sure to nominate Pokemon that synergize well with the established core.
Team so far: https://pokepast.es/bff6179efa56e07d
Team so far: https://pokepast.es/bff6179efa56e07d
Last edited: