Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (B- and C+ Pokemon discussion)

[alexwolf]

Sunny Day Ninetales or Mega Charizard-Y, tough pick. Mega Charizard-Y doesn't give you 8 turns of Sun, I'll give you that. But it does function as an excellent wallbreaker or even a lategame sweeper with Flame Charge, while Ninetales fulfills few to zero roles on a team (aside from getting up Sun). No recovery whatsoever because of Heat Rock coupled with a SR weakness sucks. Its power is mediocre compared to Mega Charizard-Y. Also there is no opportunity cost whatsoever for using Mega Charizard-Y. Mega Charizard-X is good on a Sun team? Guess what, Mega Charizard-Y is even better because it doesn't rely on teammates to get up Sun and hits hard without having to waste Sun turns by setting up. There really isn't any competition between the two. You're just putting a mediocre support pokemon against a very powerful pokemon that lets its teammates take care of support. I can tell you from personal experience that the second scenario is much more effective.

Sunny Day Ninetales? How did you figure this? Anyway, it's clear that you don't get what a supporting role is. Ninetales is a support Pokemon, where Mega Charizard Y is a wallbreaker. Which one is better? Obviously Mega Charizard Y. Can they be compared? Fuck no. One is used as a wallbreaker on any kind of team, while the other is what makes sun offense viable in OU. This is my last response to this conversation because it's obvious that you don't get Ninetales's role.

 

[Photofluid]

Hello?
Dragon might've gained a new weakness and tarnished in offensive practicality (something is immune to it) but it still fantastic typing. You may be weak to other dragons and ice, but resistances to water,grass,fire,and electric are HUGE! Dragon as a whole still has good neutral coverage and can still be potent when playing with or against them. But resistances to water, grass, fire, and electric are simply amazing, like really, that's such superb resistances. Now I realize that some powerful dragons out there are hindered by their secondary typing, but how much does it really hurt your defensive capabilities when you're 4x weak to one type? Look at heatran, he's 4x weak to ground, and he's pretty much a defensive monster. His resistances are whats more important here, I know, but that doesn't make his weakness any easier to take advantage of.

Think of it like this: If milotic became part dragon, do you think it would be an advantage or a disadvantage?
If darmanitan became part dragon, (lets give him access to outrage too why not.) do you think it would be beneficial or harmful?
If tangrowth got grass/dragon typing, would it be better or worse?

In general, pokemon with a single typing would beg to have a secondary dragon typing, it just gives them so much more resistances and a much more potent STAB to work with most of the time! I mean, come on, a grass/dragon tangrowth? A fire/dragon darmanitan? Those imaginary typings, if they ever occurred, would make them much much better. There are few pokemon that would actually mind being part dragon.

Single keyword, PHYSICAL

Why will fire/water/grass/elec resistances matter when 90% of time they are coming from the special side? Losing to dragons covers them all.

Milotic does not really appreciate the dragon typing in fact, electric/grass weakness is a whole lot more manageable than dragon/fairy, especially fairy. And Milotic is not even a physical wall.

No comment on dramanitan because I am not using it.

Tangrowth does not want a dragon either, 2* ice is barely manageable, 4* is too bad, and as a physical wall dragon weakness is not exactly what you want.

nope, dragon is a BAD physical defensive typing I would say.

 

[RufflesPro]

I think that hazard control comes under the "requires some support" section. Dragonite and Talonflame require stealth rock removal but are otherwise amazing, hence A rank. Genesect does not require support at all, which is why he's not A but S.

I'm doubting that an infestation set would be the most effective way to use Cofagrigus - if you switch it in on something it walls, it will just switch out instead of staying in to throw around pointless attacks. If anything does stay in while you use infestation, then it probably has a way to hit Cofagrigus very hard. Hex is not a good move on anything ever, so that's not a good argument. And both Trevenant and Sableye use WoW, Sableye with priority.

Infestation is not only for trapping, it's also for residual damage. WoW + Toxic + Infestation lets you wear down physical attackers and Walls/Stalls. It doesn't matter what he switches into, after Infestation, it's taking residual damage, the only real problem is that if it was a hard-hitting Special Attacker. Especially with an SE move.

Sableye isn't winning against every physical attacker even if they are burned. Sableye can't trap or do as much residual damage. It can Foul Play and Prankster Taunt, has Prankster WoW/Toxic too, and that's why it's really good.

Trevenant isn't anywhere better than Cofagrigus, not when you have more physical bulk, trapping move/more residual damage, better typing, and Mummy ability.

What will a burned Scizor/Mega Mawile/Azumarill that has lost their ability do to you? Nothing, and whatever they do before you burn them: you can rest that off, or Painsplit. What I meant by Hex is that, with the buff, WoW + Toxic, and respectable 95 base SpA, it does quite decent damage.

I'm not saying Cofagrigus is S rank. But I'm definitely saying it's C+ rank.

 

[MagikaripIsOP]

Uncompetitiveness aside, what are swagki's probabilities to kill the pokemon in -A through S tier?

 

[TooMuchSugar]

Infestation is not only for trapping, it's also for residual damage. WoW + Toxic + Infestation lets you wear down physical attackers and Walls/Stalls. It doesn't matter what he switches into, after Infestation, it's taking residual damage, the only real problem is that if it was a hard-hitting Special Attacker. Especially with an SE move.

Sableye isn't winning against every physical attacker even if they are burned. Sableye can't trap or do as much residual damage. It can Foul Play and Prankster Taunt, has Prankster WoW/Toxic too, and that's why it's really good.

Trevenant isn't anywhere better than Cofagrigus, not when you have more physical bulk, trapping move/more residual damage, better typing, and Mummy ability.

What will a burned Scizor/Mega Mawile/Azumarill that has lost their ability do to you? Nothing, and whatever they do before you burn them: you can rest that off, or Painsplit. What I meant by Hex is that, with the buff, WoW + Toxic, and respectable 95 base SpA, it does quite decent damage.

I'm not saying Cofagrigus is S rank. But I'm definitely saying it's C+ rank.

I'm actually pretty okay with C+, but I'm still not seeing what Cofagrigus has over Trevenant. He's bulkier physically, but Trevenant still has very good physical bulk AND very good special bulk, plus an exceedingly useful secondary grass typing (water resist is great, although you due have to deal with the flying and ice weaknesses). Leech Seed is a better form of extra residual damage than Infestation in almost every way. And then there's the fact that Trevenant has reliable recovery in either Rest+Lum+Harvest or Rest+Natural Cure (I know Cofagrigus gets Pain Split, but Trev's options are way better). So I would say C, just because I don't see him on the same level as Trevenant. But C+ honestly makes just as much sense if I ignore the fact that Trev's there.

 

[Sergeant Spooky]

Uncompetitiveness aside, what are swagki's probabilities to kill the pokemon in -A through S tier?

I can't be assed to figure it out but Swagplay is unreliable and Klefki is much more useful as a dual screener.

 

[mikereyes]

Not sure if its been nominated or not, but I want to nominate Suicune for B+.

While it is true that CroCune (possibly the only viable set) has trouble with Pokemon such as Celebi, Ferrothorn, Jellicent, Blissey and Chansey, most of those pokemon (besides Chansey perhaps) are seemingly dropping in popularity from last gen. And in this very physical based meta, Scald is not the worst move to be mono-attacking with, not to mention that Heatran and Talonflame don't like taking hot water to the face.

I feel like Suicune fulfills the requirement for B rank:

B Rank: Reserved for Pokemon who cannot sweep through or wall significant portions of the metagame, but can properly fulfill a given offensive/defensive niche. Support Pokemon in this category have flaws that prevent them from doing their job or are setup bait for dangerous sweepers.

However, Suicune can indeed wall a significant portion of the game right now, while not having a big flaw outside of only having Scald as an attack. Because of this, I think he is a good fit for B+.

 

[Super Mario Bro]

I think that both Manaphy and Thundurus-I should be S-Rank. It's pretty clear that, aside from the broken offensive S-Rank Megas and perhaps Aegislash, they are the two premier powerhouses in the tier, and are unrivaled in their ability to sweep and support teams with relative ease. Thundurus-I is versatile, being able to effectively use Special, Mixed, and even Physical Defiant sets, while Manaphy's solid bulk in conjunction with the ability to increase its Special Attack by three levels in one turn is ridiculous enough to land it a spot in the rank.

Additionally, I would like to nominate Machamp for C+. While its Assault Vest set faces severe competition from Assault Vest Conkeldurr, I do not believe it is outclassed, as DynamicPunch is able to annoy many of the things that normally switch into Machamp, and is stronger than Drain Punch. No Guard is also useful in other aspects, such as increasing Stone Edge's accuracy to 100%, ridding him of the dreaded scenario in which it misses against Volcarona and Charizard-Y.

 

[Photofluid]

I think that both Manaphy and Thundurus-I should be S-Rank. It's pretty clear that, aside from the broken offensive S-Rank Megas and perhaps Aegislash, they are the two premier powerhouses in the tier, and are unrivaled in their ability to sweep and support teams with relative ease. Thundurus-I is versatile, being able to effectively use Special, Mixed, and even Physical Defiant sets, while Manaphy's solid bulk in conjunction with the ability to increase its Special Attack by three levels in one turn is ridiculous enough to land it a spot in the rank.

Additionally, I would like to nominate Machamp for B-. While its Assault Vest set faces severe competition from Assault Vest Conkeldurr, I do not believe it is outclassed, as DynamicPunch is able to annoy many of the things that normally switch into Machamp, and is stronger than Drain Punch. No Guard is also useful in other aspects, such as increasing Stone Edge's accuracy to 100%, ridding him of the dreaded scenario in which it misses against Volcarona and Charizard-Y.

Thundurus-I is a solid A+ candidate but S is perhaps too much, the major flaw is that while most of its stats are comparable to the top tier pokemon, it still has to stick with low BP moves like Tbolt and HP ice, especially the later. Priority thunder wave is extremely strong utility-wise but its offensive presence really holds it back.

The same applies for manaphy, which can be considered as a 135 SpA poke with nasty plot, and is also hold back a bit for lacking high BP move like Hydro Pump. 100 speed also leaves too much room to be exploit. In fact, I am a little surprise that it does manage to hit A+.

 

[mertyville]

I agree on Thundurus-I being S-Rank.
It might not spam Thunder like the generation before and more Pokemon are immun to Thunderwave, but it still has the offensive stats to threaten from both sides. Not a lot of Pokemon want to stay in 125 Base SpA and in case it needs to, it has access to priority Thunderwave to cripple stuff that might outspeed it, access to priority substitute to dodge potential Toxic, Spore or Leech Seed, not to mention it already has enough speed to outspeed most of the metagame with base 111. Additionally it has 115 Atk which makes it a good mixed attacker or a choice band user that can switch in into defog thanks to defiant.
How many Pokemon can take a +2 Choice Band-Boosted Move from that thing, immunities aside? Though, Prankster will be the ability to go for a non-choiced Thundurus.
Aside of that, it has access to both Voltswitch and U-Turn to gain momentum and a variarity in great coverage moves on both attacking sides.
Sp Moves: Thunder(bolt), Voltswitch, Discharge, Dark Pulse, Focus Blast, Hidden Power, Grass Knot, Sludge Wave.
Phy Moves: Superpower, U-Turn, Wild Charge, Hammer Arm, Crunch, Brick Break, Knock Off, Sky Drop.
While I am at it, here are some of its notable support moves: Nasty Plot, Thunderwave, Substitute, Taunt, Bulk Up, Agility.

 

[Punchshroom]

I think that both Manaphy and Thundurus-I should be S-Rank. It's pretty clear that, aside from the broken offensive S-Rank Megas and perhaps Aegislash, they are the two premier powerhouses in the tier, and are unrivaled in their ability to sweep and support teams with relative ease. Thundurus-I is versatile, being able to effectively use Special, Mixed, and even Physical Defiant sets, while Manaphy's solid bulk in conjunction with the ability to increase its Special Attack by three levels in one turn is ridiculous enough to land it a spot in the rank.

I don't think Manaphy has quite what it takes to reach S-Rank. Tail Glow makes it very powerful (but predictable), however even then it can struggle to break through certain common threats in the game. Ferrothorn, Mega Venusaur, Chansey, Kyurem-Black, and Clefable are the biggests stops to Manaphy, with some other Pokemon like Tentacruel, Goodra, Aegislash and Sylveon capable of tanking a hit. I didn't even get to the stuff that does outspeed Manaphy. As I've mentioned before, 100 base Speed with no way to circumvent it (Mega Gardevoir anyone?) is not what it used to be anymore. Manaphy needs basically every faster threat out of the way if it wants to KO stuff, which is still pretty high maintenance. I have trouble using it in freaking Dual Screens.

Thundurus-I, on the other hand, can very easily patch up holes in a team: Prankster Thunder Wave can cripple threats, Nasty Plot allows it to crack open teams, and Prankster Taunt screws over Baton Pass teams or defensive threats. All while providing very good offensive presence with its marvelous sweeping stats and offensive coverage. In short, Thundurus-I can both provide offensive support while being a great offensive threat. The only other Pokemon I think that can rival this role is Deoxys-S, but that has fallen out of S-Rank, so I'm unsure on Thundurus's placing. Frankly I'm not too sure why Deo-S has fallen out of favor but I'm not about to strongly object; I just think it's still (almost) unparalleled at what it does.

Edit: So I've gotten around to looking at this Pokemon, who has mostly fallen out of favor since the Rain nerf. Thing is...it's still not that bad. What would it be you ask?

Hide

​

So what business does this thing have in OU now that Rain isn't the biggest thing ever? Still enough actually. Reliable recovery, good HP, and usable defenses means it can be tailored to handle bothersome threats.

First, it stops Rotom-W cold. Soaking up Hydro Pumps and stopping Volt Switch shenanigans means the washing machine would have to Will-O-Wisp to catch it on the switch, which can mean you could potentially leave your Fire-type in there for a free turn. But people already know this, and aren't particularly keen on using Gastro just for Rotom-W. Fortunately, Gastro can still handle other threats, depending on its EV spread.

Specially defensive Gastrodon is one of the few stops to the deadly mixed Kyurem-B, which is a huge threat to defensive teams due to its ability to rip apart defensive cores. It can even take on potent attackers such as Shadow Ball Aegislash, Sheer Force Landorus-I, and even Nasty Plot Mega Lucario, while easily laying waste to special attackers such as Thundurus-I & Greninja (without Grass Knot) and Goodra.

Physically defensive Gastrodon can take on Genesect (without Grass moves) for the most part, making it one of the better Gene sponges right after Heatran. It also takes on Tyranitar, and with it already manhandling Rotom-W and Heatran, Gastrodon makes for one of the best possible partners for Talonflame, though this probably would've been obvious. It can also take on Ground-types and Dragon-types in a pinch, and is a good response for VoltTurn.

Its moveset is fairly standard for a bulky Water (Scald, Toxic), and not much has changed from its original. The one thing it has received is Infestation, which can give Gastrodon the edge against other bulky Pokemon. Its main draw is that it can make good use of its good defensive typing with Recover. Its main flaw is that its stats may not hold up too well against the majority of attackers in the meta, though the fact that it can do either a physically or specially defensive role means that its defenses are still pretty respectable.

I'd think I'd put Gastrodon in B- alongside fellow bulky Water Jellicent, though Jellicent's main downfall is probably its Ghost and Dark weakness, which are now very common, so maybe Gastro can fare better in the new meta than its equally squishy friend.

 

[RufflesPro]

I'm actually pretty okay with C+, but I'm still not seeing what Cofagrigus has over Trevenant. He's bulkier physically, but Trevenant still has very good physical bulk AND very good special bulk, plus an exceedingly useful secondary grass typing (water resist is great, although you due have to deal with the flying and ice weaknesses). Leech Seed is a better form of extra residual damage than Infestation in almost every way. And then there's the fact that Trevenant has reliable recovery in either Rest+Lum+Harvest or Rest+Natural Cure (I know Cofagrigus gets Pain Split, but Trev's options are way better). So I would say C, just because I don't see him on the same level as Trevenant. But C+ honestly makes just as much sense if I ignore the fact that Trev's there.

Trevenant also has fire weakness, which is pretty common. Trevenant dies to a foul play very fast. While Trevenant does have much more reliable recovery, Cofagrigus can use Resto Chesto, Pain Split + Leftovers/Sitrus is quite acceptable too, Leech Seed does benefit more than Infestation, but the opposing pokemon can just switch out, Infestation locks him in, and if he's a physical attacker, you basically won a free kill.

Cofagrigus may have pitiful SpD that couldn't survive powerful hits, but! it has extremely high Defense, and in this metagame, were Physical attackers are much more common. Cofagrigus will end up walling/stalling at least 1 pokemons of his teams.

I don't think Manaphy has quite what it takes to reach S-Rank. Tail Glow makes it very powerful (but predictable), however even then it can struggle to break through certain common threats in the game. Ferrothorn, Mega Venusaur, Chansey, Kyurem-Black, and Clefable are the biggests stops to Manaphy, with some other Pokemon like Tentacruel, Goodra, Aegislash and Sylveon capable of tanking a hit. I didn't even get to the stuff that does outspeed Manaphy. As I've mentioned before, 100 base Speed with no way to circumvent it (Mega Gardevoir anyone?) is not what it used to be anymore. Manaphy needs basically every faster threat out of the way if it wants to KO stuff, which is still pretty high maintenance. I have trouble using it in freaking Dual Screens.

Thundurus-I, on the other hand, can very easily patch up holes in a team: Prankster Thunder Wave can cripple threats, Nasty Plot allows it to crack open teams, and Prankster Taunt screws over Baton Pass teams or defensive threats. All while providing very good offensive presence with its marvelous sweeping stats and offensive coverage. In short, Thundurus-I can both provide offensive support while being a great offensive threat. The only other Pokemon I think that can rival this role is Deoxys-S, but that has fallen out of S-Rank, so I'm unsure on Thundurus's placing. Frankly I'm not too sure why Deo-S has fallen out of favor but I'm not about to strongly object; I just think it's still (almost) unparalleled at what it does.

Edit: So I've gotten around to looking at this Pokemon, who has mostly fallen out of favor since the Rain nerf. Thing is...it's still not that bad. What would it be you ask?

Hide

SO what business does this thing have now that Rain isn't the biggest thing ever? Still enough actually. Reliable recovery, good HP, and usable defenses means it can be tailored to handle bothersome threats.

First, it stops Rotom-W cold. Soaking up Hydro Pumps and stopping Volt Switch shenanigans means the washing machine would have to Will-O-Wisp to catch it on the switch, which can mean you could potentially leave your Fire-type in there for a free turn. But people already know this, and aren't particularly keen on using Gastro just for Rotom-W. Fortunately, Gastro can still handle other threats, depending on its EV spread.

Specially defensive Gastrodon is one of the few stops to the deadly mixed Kyurem-B, which is a huge threat to defensive teams due to its ability to rip apart defensive cores. It can even take on potent attackers such as Shadow Ball Aegislash, Sheer Force Landorus-I, and even Nasty Plot Mega Lucario, while easily laying waste to special attackers such as Thundurus-I & Greninja (without Grass Knot) and Goodra.

Physically defensive Gastrodon can take on Genesect (without Grass moves) for the most part, making it one of the better Gene sponges right after Heatran. It also takes on Tyranitar, and with it already manhandling Rotom-W and Heatran, Gastrodon makes for one of the best possible partners for Talonflame, though this probably would've been obvious. It can also take on Ground-types and Dragon-types in a pinch, and is a good response for VoltTurn.

Its moveset is fairly standard for a bulky Water (Scald, Toxic), and not much has changed from its original. The one thing it has received is Infestation, which gives Gastrodon the edge against other bulky Pokemon. Its main draw is that it can make good use of its good defensive typing with Recover. Its main flaw is that its stats may not hold up too well against the majority of attackers in the meta, though the fact that it can do either a physically or specially defensive role means that its defenses are still pretty respectable.

I'd think I'd put Gastrodon in B- alongside fellow bulky Water Jellicent, though Jellicent's main downfall is probably its Ghost and Dark weakness, which are now very common, so maybe Gastro can fare better in the new meta than its equally squishy friend.

No mention of Counter & Mirror coat? They are good depending on your EV Spread.

I second Talonflame + Gastrodon core, and also, Heatran + Gastrodon core is actually also very good.

 

[dingbat]

I'm not sure if this has been discussed yet (I'm too lazy to scroll through the 140 pages, with some of them being filled with pointless shit), but Crobat definitely needs to be ranked. Although it has a stealth rock weakness and rather middling offensive and defensive stats, its base 130 Speed gives it the fastest defog in the game, and I feel that Infiltrator's buff gave it a decent boost this generation. It also has Roost for recovery, U-turn for a little momentum, taunt to shut down 'mons like Deoxys-D, Skarmory, and Hippowdon just to list a few, and STAB brave bird to pick off 'mons like trevenant, non-scarf keldeo, and other weakened opponents, although that's usually better done by Talonflame. Crobat does not have priority, but what the fuck, I could care less about it.

B Rank: Reserved for Pokemon who cannot sweep through or wall significant portions of the metagame, but can properly fulfill a given offensive/defensive niche. Support Pokemon in this category have flaws that prevent them from doing their job or are setup bait for dangerous sweepers. Pokemon who are partially outperformed by a Pokemon in A or S Rank, but are otherwise very dangerous, may also fall into this category.

I feel that Crobat fits this description very well, and deserves at the bare minimum a B- rank.

 

[Srn]

Single keyword, PHYSICAL

Why will fire/water/grass/elec resistances matter when 90% of time they are coming from the special side? Losing to dragons covers them all.

Milotic does not really appreciate the dragon typing in fact, electric/grass weakness is a whole lot more manageable than dragon/fairy, especially fairy. And Milotic is not even a physical wall.

No comment on dramanitan because I am not using it.

Tangrowth does not want a dragon either, 2* ice is barely manageable, 4* is too bad, and as a physical wall dragon weakness is not exactly what you want.

nope, dragon is a BAD physical defensive typing I would say.

You didn't mention physical resistances in your argument, you said that a dragon typing is a liability, and that's blatantly false.
How in the world does 4 resistances balance out two weaknesses? In the lower tiers, where these imaginary pokemon will be, there aren't even that many fairy types to worry about. You have granbull, mega gardevoir, and florges, and all of those are easily checked by a solid steel type. Can you check all those 4 weaknesses with just one type? Well gee, looks like we're back to dragon. What a liability of a type.

Basically, while the two weaknesses you gain are annoying, they are much more easily worked around by teammates, all you literally need is one steel type and you're good to go. Look at tangrowth for example. He now has a fairy, dragon, ice, and flying, all of which are resisted by steel. Meanwhile, your old tangrowth had a weakness to fire, which steel type couldn't cover on its own. See where this is going? A dragon typing can overall contribute more to a defensive core, because all of its weaknesses are covered by just one type.

 

[alexwolf]

Update time:

Kyurem-B: A ---> A+
Aerodactyl (Mega): B ---> C+
Kyurem: B ---> C+
Thundurus-T: B+ ---> C+
Whimsicott: C ---> D
Liepard: C ---> Unranked
Mew: Unranked ---> B
Tangrowth: Unranked ---> C+
Crobat: Unranked ---> C-
Zygarde: B ---> B-
Darmanitan: Unranked ---> C+
Smeargle: Unranked ---> C
Ninetales: Unranked ---> C+
Porygon2: Unranked ---> C
Magnezone: Unranked ---> C+
Starmie: B- ---> B
Tornadus-T: B- ---> B
Cofagrigus: Unranked ---> C
Donphan: Unranked ---> D
Kingdra: Unranked ---> C+
Ludicolo: Unranked ---> C-
Wobbuffet: Unranked ---> C+
Goodra: B+ ---> B-
Tentacruel: B ---> C+
Infernape: B ---> C+
Celebi: B- ---> C+
Medicham (Mega): B ---> B+
Manectric (Mega): B- ---> B
Politoed: A- ---> B+
Mawile: Unranked ---> D
Mr. Mime: Unranked ---> D
Alakazam (Mega): Unranked ---> C+


Also, C- Rank has been created and Donphan has been added to the blacklist.

 

[Swamp-Rocket]

Why is regular Mawile even ranked at all? It is garbage...

And yes I know it can work with Baton Pass but it is outclassed at doing a niche role most of the time. There are plenty of Iron Defense and Swords Dance passers that also have Speed Boost or Agility or something else and are still viable in their own right (Scolipede, Scizor), or have a better bulk, especially on the special side (Vaporeon). Intimidate doesn't make it viable.

It shouldn't be on there imo

 

[Rotosect]

What exactly is the difference between "ideal ranking" and "blacklist"?

 

[Vis Mage]

I'd like to nominate Porygon2 for C+ rank

Porygon2 has always been a bit of an under the radar defensive duck, from way back to G/S/C with its curse set, to the more modern days of evolite. With 85/90/95 defenses, this cyber duck becomes a tank with evolite, and its 105 SpAtt makes it no slouch in offence either. It has a plethora of options that allow it to be played in any way you feel needed, with STAB Tri-Attack, thunderbolt, ice beam, psychic, psyshock, shadow ball, amusing many other offensive moves giving Porygon2 excellent coverage. As for support, it has access to thunder wave, with can make a surpirising amount of things slower than you, or toxic, both being great status moves. You have access to reliable recovery in recover. Even your lower speed can work in your favor in a trick room team, in which Porygon2 makes an excellent set up user of trick room. You even have a number of useful and interesting support moves, such as icy wind, and magic coat. On top of all of that, you have three completely usable abilities in Trace (Listed below), Download (Which with a bit of prediction/luck, you can net yourself a nice SpAtt boost), and Analytic (Which makes use of your low speed). And speaking of Trace...

List of things that make Trace awesome on Porygon2:

Aerilate - 2HKOs Mega-Pinsir with Tri Attack.
Arena Trap - Dugtrio cannot trap Porygon2.
Download - Can boost special attack and out-damage Genesect.
Dry Skin - Checks rain teams if packing Thunderbolt.
Flash Fire - Heatran is checked, hard-countered if it lacks attacking moves outside of Lava Plume.
Gooey - Physical variants of Goodra become outsped.
Intimidate - Various boosters like Salamence and Gyarados are hard-countered, crippled with Thunder Wave, and OHKO'd with BoltBeam.
Magic Guard - Cannot be killed with Toxic, the only status Porygon2 truly dislikes.
Magnet Pull - Can trap Magnezone and lower its special defense with Shadow Ball or possibly inflict burn/freeze with Tri Attack.
Multiscale - Hard-counters Dragonite in the middle of Outrage by crippling with Thunder Wave, reactivating with Recover, and 2HKOing with Ice Beam.
Natural Cure - Pokemon like Celebi and Blissey cannot reliably kill Porygon2 with Toxic.
Parental Bond - 1.5x damage boost that breaks subs and doubles secondary effect chances. Becomes a good revenge switch-in to unboosted Mega-Kangaskhan with a 2/5 chance to shut Mega-Kangaskhan down. This only applies in Ubers, however.
Poison Heal - Correctly predict an incoming Toxic from Gliscor, and your ready to go!
Prankster - Prankster Recover/Thunder Wave/Toxic.
Protean - Gives Porygon2 STAB BoltBeam or STAB Shadow Ball/Hidden Power Fighting.
Rough Skin - Garchomp gets hurt when using Dragon-type moves/Fire Fang.
Rain Dish - Checks Tentacruel lacking Toxic.
Serene Grace - Tri Attack turns into 40% chance of inflicting status, or 13.34% to burn, freeze, or paralyze. Discharge has a whopping 60% chance to paralyze while Shadow Ball will lower special defense every 2 times out of 5.
Shadow Tag - Allows Porygon2 to Toxic on Wobbuffet and switch out. Can safely Shadow Ball or Thunder Wave Mega-Gengar in Ubers.
Sheer Force - Most of Porygon2's attacking moves get a solid boost.
Speed Boost - Hard-counters Scolipede, cripples it with Thunder Wave, makes Porygon2 very hard to take down with speedy Recover and solid defenses on top of usable special attack.
Storm Drain - Can switch into Gastrodon and proceed to hit hard with Tri Attack.
Technician - Hidden Power Fighting becomes boosted to 90 BP. A set running Hidden Power Fire can OHKO most Scizor.
Thick Fat - Can switch into Mamoswine's Icicle Crash/Ice Shard and Recover off Earthquakes.
Volt Absorb - Hard-counters Jolteon and checks Thundurus-T.
Water Absorb - Regenerates health from switching into Vaporeon and checks Water Absorb Jellicent.
Wonder Guard - GG.

-----------------------------------
Edit: Thanks for catching Poison Heal, Srn9130

 

[Giometry]

Tornadus T B ==> B+/A- Tornadus has a lot of options in this meta with its great speed tier and good coverage in the form of superpower and heat wave. It has access to life orb regenerator U-turn which makes it an amazing pivot. Not to mention Flying Stab is great.

Staraptor B- ==> B/B+ Staraptor was given the B- rank a long time ago back when we did not know the terror of the Double Bird Core which can trash a good amount of OU and as such I believe that that extra synergy is enough to boost the EmoRaptor up a place or two.

Galvantula B- ==> C+ I have been saying this since the beginning that Sticky web is not an effective enough niche to put galvantula in B- because lets face it Galv is terrible outside of Sticky Web and before you use the unrivaled niche argument allow me to ask who outclasses ditto in his niche... noone but that doesn't mean that he should be higher ranked.

Kingdra C+ ==> B-/B Kingdra's niche on the other hand is a good one and one in which he is king. If politoed is B+ for only providing rain support then why are all the rain abusers in C+ or less (Sans Keldeo)? It just doesn't make sense.

 

[Delibird is Amazing]

I'd like to nominate Porygon2 for C rank

Porygon2 has always been a bit of an under the radar defensive duck, from way back to G/S/C with its curse set, to the more modern days of evolite. With 85/90/95 defenses, this cyber duck becomes a tank with evolite, and its 105 SpAtt makes it no slouch in offence either. It has a plethora of options that allow it to be played in any way you feel needed, with STAB Tri-Attack, thunderbolt, ice beam, psychic, psyshock, shadow ball, amusing many other offensive moves giving Porygon2 excellent coverage. As for support, it has access to thunder wave, with can make a surpirising amount of things slower than you, or toxic, both being great status moves. You have access to reliable recovery in recover. Even your lower speed can work in your favor in a trick room team, in which Porygon2 makes an excellent set up user of trick room. You even have a number of useful and interesting support moves, such as icy wind, and magic coat. On top of all of that, you have three completely usable abilities in Trace (Listed below), Download (Which with a bit of prediction/luck, you can net yourself a nice SpAtt boost), and Analytic (Which makes use of your low speed). And speaking of Trace...

List of things that make Trace awesome on Porygon2:

Aerilate - 2HKOs Mega-Pinsir with Tri Attack.
Arena Trap - Dugtrio cannot trap Porygon2.
Download - Can boost special attack and out-damage Genesect.
Dry Skin - Checks rain teams if packing Thunderbolt.
Flash Fire - Heatran is checked, hard-countered if it lacks attacking moves outside of Lava Plume.
Gooey - Physical variants of Goodra become outsped.
Intimidate - Various boosters like Salamence and Gyarados are hard-countered, crippled with Thunder Wave, and OHKO'd with BoltBeam.
Magic Guard - Cannot be killed with Toxic, the only status Porygon2 truly dislikes.
Magnet Pull - Can trap Magnezone and lower its special defense with Shadow Ball or possibly inflict burn/freeze with Tri Attack.
Multiscale - Hard-counters Dragonite in the middle of Outrage by crippling with Thunder Wave, reactivating with Recover, and 2HKOing with Ice Beam.
Natural Cure - Pokemon like Celebi and Blissey cannot reliably kill Porygon2 with Toxic.
Parental Bond - 1.5x damage boost that breaks subs and doubles secondary effect chances. Becomes a good revenge switch-in to unboosted Mega-Kangaskhan with a 2/5 chance to shut Mega-Kangaskhan down. This only applies in Ubers, however.
Prankster - Prankster Recover/Thunder Wave/Toxic.
Protean - Gives Porygon2 STAB BoltBeam or STAB Shadow Ball/Hidden Power Fighting.
Rough Skin - Garchomp gets hurt when using Dragon-type moves/Fire Fang.
Rain Dish - Checks Tentacruel lacking Toxic.
Serene Grace - Tri Attack turns into 40% chance of inflicting status, or 13.34% to burn, freeze, or paralyze. Discharge has a whopping 60% chance to paralyze while Shadow Ball will lower special defense every 2 times out of 5.
Shadow Tag - Allows Porygon2 to Toxic on Wobbuffet and switch out. Can safely Shadow Ball or Thunder Wave Mega-Gengar in Ubers.
Sheer Force - Most of Porygon2's attacking moves get a solid boost.
Speed Boost - Hard-counters Scolipede, cripples it with Thunder Wave, makes Porygon2 very hard to take down with speedy Recover and solid defenses on top of usable special attack.
Storm Drain - Can switch into Gastrodon and proceed to hit hard with Tri Attack.
Technician - Hidden Power Fighting becomes boosted to 90 BP. A set running Hidden Power Fire can OHKO most Scizor.
Thick Fat - Can switch into Mamoswine's Icicle Crash/Ice Shard and Recover off Earthquakes.
Volt Absorb - Hard-counters Jolteon and checks Thundurus-T.
Water Absorb - Regenerates health from switching into Vaporeon and checks Water Absorb Jellicent.
Wonder Guard - GG.

lol it was just made c rank

 

[alexwolf]

Why is regular Mawile even ranked at all? It is garbage...

And yes I know it can work with Baton Pass but it is outclassed at doing a niche role most of the time. There are plenty of Iron Defense and Swords Dance passers that also have Speed Boost or Agility or something else and are still viable in their own right (Scolipede, Scizor), or have a better bulk, especially on the special side (Vaporeon). Intimidate doesn't make it viable.

It shouldn't be on there imo

Because it is plenty viable in Baton Pass teams. Taunt + Intimidate + Fairy-typing are all siginificant pros Mawile has over Scizor as a Steel-type and Iron Defense user.

 

[Vis Mage]

lol it was just made c rank

Oh gosh, I completely missed it! o_O

Well then, I guess I'll try to push for C+, I suppose!

 

[Srn]

I'd like to nominate Porygon2 for C+ rank

Porygon2 has always been a bit of an under the radar defensive duck, from way back to G/S/C with its curse set, to the more modern days of evolite. With 85/90/95 defenses, this cyber duck becomes a tank with evolite, and its 105 SpAtt makes it no slouch in offence either. It has a plethora of options that allow it to be played in any way you feel needed, with STAB Tri-Attack, thunderbolt, ice beam, psychic, psyshock, shadow ball, amusing many other offensive moves giving Porygon2 excellent coverage. As for support, it has access to thunder wave, with can make a surpirising amount of things slower than you, or toxic, both being great status moves. You have access to reliable recovery in recover. Even your lower speed can work in your favor in a trick room team, in which Porygon2 makes an excellent set up user of trick room. You even have a number of useful and interesting support moves, such as icy wind, and magic coat. On top of all of that, you have three completely usable abilities in Trace (Listed below), Download (Which with a bit of prediction/luck, you can net yourself a nice SpAtt boost), and Analytic (Which makes use of your low speed). And speaking of Trace...

List of things that make Trace awesome on Porygon2:

Aerilate - 2HKOs Mega-Pinsir with Tri Attack.
Arena Trap - Dugtrio cannot trap Porygon2.
Download - Can boost special attack and out-damage Genesect.
Dry Skin - Checks rain teams if packing Thunderbolt.
Flash Fire - Heatran is checked, hard-countered if it lacks attacking moves outside of Lava Plume.
Gooey - Physical variants of Goodra become outsped.
Intimidate - Various boosters like Salamence and Gyarados are hard-countered, crippled with Thunder Wave, and OHKO'd with BoltBeam.
Magic Guard - Cannot be killed with Toxic, the only status Porygon2 truly dislikes.
Magnet Pull - Can trap Magnezone and lower its special defense with Shadow Ball or possibly inflict burn/freeze with Tri Attack.
Multiscale - Hard-counters Dragonite in the middle of Outrage by crippling with Thunder Wave, reactivating with Recover, and 2HKOing with Ice Beam.
Natural Cure - Pokemon like Celebi and Blissey cannot reliably kill Porygon2 with Toxic.
Parental Bond - 1.5x damage boost that breaks subs and doubles secondary effect chances. Becomes a good revenge switch-in to unboosted Mega-Kangaskhan with a 2/5 chance to shut Mega-Kangaskhan down. This only applies in Ubers, however.
Prankster - Prankster Recover/Thunder Wave/Toxic.
Protean - Gives Porygon2 STAB BoltBeam or STAB Shadow Ball/Hidden Power Fighting.
Rough Skin - Garchomp gets hurt when using Dragon-type moves/Fire Fang.
Rain Dish - Checks Tentacruel lacking Toxic.
Serene Grace - Tri Attack turns into 40% chance of inflicting status, or 13.34% to burn, freeze, or paralyze. Discharge has a whopping 60% chance to paralyze while Shadow Ball will lower special defense every 2 times out of 5.
Shadow Tag - Allows Porygon2 to Toxic on Wobbuffet and switch out. Can safely Shadow Ball or Thunder Wave Mega-Gengar in Ubers.
Sheer Force - Most of Porygon2's attacking moves get a solid boost.
Speed Boost - Hard-counters Scolipede, cripples it with Thunder Wave, makes Porygon2 very hard to take down with speedy Recover and solid defenses on top of usable special attack.
Storm Drain - Can switch into Gastrodon and proceed to hit hard with Tri Attack.
Technician - Hidden Power Fighting becomes boosted to 90 BP. A set running Hidden Power Fire can OHKO most Scizor.
Thick Fat - Can switch into Mamoswine's Icicle Crash/Ice Shard and Recover off Earthquakes.
Volt Absorb - Hard-counters Jolteon and checks Thundurus-T.
Water Absorb - Regenerates health from switching into Vaporeon and checks Water Absorb Jellicent.
Wonder Guard - GG.

I can't believe you forgot poison heal lol. If you switch in on a predicted toxic from gliscor as it poisons you, you trace poison heal, and oh boy. The opponent is in for a fun time. Outside of that, technician is pretty worthless, nobody runs any type of hidden power on P2. Everything else is pretty legit. It can also trace pixilate from sylveon for a fairy type tri attack.

 

[Aragorn the King]

Update time:

Kyurem-B: A ---> A+
Aerodactyl (Mega): B ---> C+
Kyurem: B ---> C+
Thundurus-T: B+ ---> C+
Whimsicott: C ---> D
Liepard: C ---> Unranked
Mew: Unranked ---> B
Tangrowth: Unranked ---> C+
Crobat: Unranked ---> C-
Zygarde: B ---> B-
Darmanitan: Unranked ---> C+
Smeargle: Unranked ---> C
Ninetales: Unranked ---> C+
Porygon2: Unranked ---> C
Magnezone: Unranked ---> C+
Starmie: B- ---> B
Tornadus-T: B- ---> B
Cofagrigus: Unranked ---> C
Donphan: Unranked ---> D
Kingdra: Unranked ---> C+
Ludicolo: Unranked ---> C-
Wobbuffet: Unranked ---> C+
Goodra: B+ ---> B-
Tentacruel: B ---> C+
Infernape: B ---> C+
Celebi: B- ---> C+
Medicham (Mega): B ---> B+
Manectric (Mega): B- ---> B
Politoed: A- ---> B+
Mawile: Unranked ---> D
Mr. Mime: Unranked ---> D
Alakazam (Mega): Unranked ---> C+


Also, C- Rank has been created and Donphan has been added to the blacklist.

What about Super Gourgeist, which I just notice went from B to C? Do you know why that happened? I definitely think it's worth B rank, and that it's odd that with an apparent lack of discussion it still went down a whole rank.

 

[RotomPoison]

Magnezone in C+ is just a mistake. Steel types have seen a drop in usage (suck it Ferro) due to now no longer resisting Dark and Ghost, mainly the buffed Knock Off. People need to stop being so closed minded and think about all the options. Magnezone has another great ability which is extremelly underrated, which is Analytic. 30% boost on a switch or when he's slower (90% of the time, especially since Quiet lowers him to the point he is slower then many key threats, including the S-ranked Aegislash. Feel free to run any calc you choose and it will surprise you. Thunderbolt, Volt Switch, Flash Cannon, and either HP Fire or Sleep Talk is really all he needs. Due to his raw power and ability to bluff a Magnet Pull set extremely well, I would like to nominate Magnezone for B rank.

B Rank: Reserved for Pokemon who cannot sweep through or wall significant portions of the metagame, but can properly fulfill a given offensive/defensive niche. Support Pokemon in this category have flaws that prevent them from doing their job or are setup bait for dangerous sweepers. Pokemon who are partially outperformed by a Pokemon in A or S Rank, but are otherwise very dangerous, may also fall into this category.

Tell me a Specs, Quiet, Analytic Magnezone does not perfectly match that description.