Pokémon Wishiwashi

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The set I'm running on doubles with a Standar-like Oranguru

Wishiwashi @ Shell Bell
Ability: Schooling
Level: 50
EVs: 140 HP / 120 Def / 248 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 0 Spe
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Protect

I have doubts on the HP Grass (for bulky water types) since double surf kills almost all pokemon i have faced.
Shell Bell with double Surf grants a 8-12% of recovery
 
I think it's important that Wishiwashi run either Endeavor or some Rest variant.

Here's the issue. When it reverts to solo form, Wishiwashi becomes the best setup bait in the game. Since Wishiwashi reverts at the end of the turn, you can even score a KO only to have a setup sweeper come in against you next.

Which, going back, is why Endeavor is so great. It makes the enemy need to attack!

I don't see a lot of sets for him other than
- Hydro Pump / Aqua Tail
- Ice Beam
- U-turn / Earthquake
- Endeavor / Rest

And maybe Sleep Talk. But that's not a problem.

I think Assault Vest has a lot of potential for Wishiwashi. Endeavor works with it too.
Also, his low HP and good defenses make him pair well with Wish users, I guess.
How about giving it a Custap Berry? That way, Endeavor/Rest will go first in the priority bracket.
 
How about giving it a Custap Berry? That way, Endeavor/Rest will go first in the priority bracket.
It would be a nasty surprise for the opponent. It is kind of putting all your eggs into one basket, as it doesn't give any benefit in School Forme and won't see any benefit if you're killed from above 25%. But I could just be too entrenched in the old ways, I'd love to try it out.

It's no coincidence all the 'mons listed in that Custap link are Sturdy hazard leads. But Wishiwashi is an unfamiliar case.
 
Hi Cobalt314,

I couldn't agree more. Wishiwashi is a very powerful Pokemon that could potentially be seen in OU. What's more after looking at its stats, ability, and move pool, I believe Wishiwashi is to be run as a Choice wielding tank. The following set seems to be the most effective as it optimises its wall breaking prowess whilst working with its ability...



Wishiwashi-School (M) @ Choice Specs

Ability: Schooling
EVs: 148 HP / 252 SpA / 108 Spe
Modest Nature
Hydro Pump
Ice Beam
Hidden Power Electric
U-Turn

Hydro Pump is a powerful STAB and thanks to its Sp. Atk stat is can easily dent a target with ease. Ice Beam provides great coverage with Hydro Pump and allows Wishiwashi to KO Grass and Dragon-types. Hidden Power Electric compliments the set by providing additional coverage against opposing water types like Keldeo, and Slowbro. U-Turn turns Wishiwashi's speed into a blessing by allowing it to scout and switch into a more favourable match-up. The combination of water, ice, electric, and bug can be replaced with water, ice, hp grass and Earthquake. Hidden Power Grass can be used because it hits Rotom-W very hard, while Earthquake is used against Volcanion. Together they provide respectable coverage.

Note: The Choice Specs allows Wishiwashi to dent defensive walls as it possesses immense power and coverage. This set is used as a tank and works well against balanced and defensive teams. That said, Wishiwashi doesn't cope well with offensive teams as they can easily reduce its HP and send it to its solo form.
 
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Hi Cobalt314,

I couldn't agree more. Wishiwashi is a very powerful Pokemon that could potentially be seen in OU. What's more after looking at its stats, ability, and move pool, I believe Wishiwashi is to be run as a Choice wielding tank. The following set seems to be the most effective as it optimises its wall breaking prowess whilst working with its ability...



Wishiwashi-School (M) @ Choice Specs

Ability: Schooling
EVs: 148 HP / 252 SpA / 108 Spe
Modest Nature
Hydro Pump
Ice Beam
Hidden Power Electric
U-Turn

Hydro Pump is a powerful STAB and thanks to its Sp. Atk stat is can easily dent a target with ease. Ice Beam provides great coverage with Hydro Pump and allows Wishiwashi to KO Grass and Dragon-types. Hidden Power Electric compliments the set by providing additional coverage against opposing water types like Keldeo, and Slowbro. U-Turn turns Wishiwashi's speed into a blessing by allowing it to scout and switch into a more favourable match-up. The combination of water, ice, electric, and bug can be replaced with water, ice, hp grass and Earthquake. Hidden Power Grass can be used because it hits Rotom-W very hard, while Earthquake is used against Volcanion. Together they provide excellent coverage.

Note: The Choice Specs allows Wishiwashi to dent defensive walls as it possesses immense power and coverage. This set is used as a tank and works well against balanced and defensive teams. That said, Wishiwashi doesn't cope well with offensive teams as they can easily reduce its HP and send it to its solo form.
What are the speed EVs for?
 
It suddenly occurs to me that the only stat-boosting move this guy gets is Double Team.
Even Pyukumuku, who gets no attacking moves other than Counter and Bide, at least gets Curse + Baton Pass.

Outside of the use of items, Evasion Clause prevents this guy from boosting the only stat the devs allowed him to boost. That's... tragic.
 
What are the speed EVs for?
Oops I forgot to mention that. The speed investment is to out speed un-boosted base 50's like Tangrowth. Running 164 speed could be considered. Since Wishiwashi seems to be a tank, I thought it would be best to include some speed investment so that it can out speed some walls. So yeah, it's mostly there to out speed base 50 walls, which comes in handy for revenge killing mons like tangrowth ^^
 
My thoughts on Wishiwashi are that it's a bit similar to Pokemon like Slaking, Regigigas, and Archeops and look at what tier those Pokemon are in. It's fat, strong, slow, and has an ability that makes it practically useless. It'll have a good place in one of the lower tiers for sure. A choice specs or choice band set could work, but I can't picture anything else working. A rest talk set is underwhelming, high maintenance, and is likely to accomplish little to nothing against decent players. What you want to do is hard well and hit hard, while tanking a few hits since you're slow and pretty much have to be able to tank those hits. This thing has a good offensive movepool and I'm surprised it has U-Turn.
 
Schooling is the least detrimental handicap ability ever, it's rarely noticeable. It would've been dead in the water at below 25% end-of-turn regardless of ability since it's usually moving second anyway, and it can still get strong hits in on the turn it goes below 25% because the ability doesn't activate until after you've moved. The bigger handicaps for it in OU are its barren movepool and the lack of a good secondary typing, which means it has to compete with a ton of other water mons with great niches and doesn't synergise with fellow waters at all.
 
That's all too true, what I meant by practically useless in my post was that once it's activated it makes the mon pretty useless. A secondary typing could definitely have helped him out a bit, especially if that second typing could offer it some useful resistances. I also think Aqua Jet would help to improve it by giving it priority to make up for its low speed, some kind of good stat boosting move would also be neat.
 
What if :

252 HP / 252 Spe / 8 Atk

Leftovers
Jolly Nature

- Protect
- Aqua Tail
- Endeavour
- U-Turn / Double Edge

in a team with Trick Room + Wide Guard :0
 
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Why is the suggested set running Iapapa Berry? That will only confuse it since it's a sour berry. With a Quiet nature you'll want to run a berry with a flavor +SpA mons will like which is dry, so a Wiki Berry is the way to go. Iapapa Berry would only be worthwhile if Wishiwashi was running Bold, Impish, Relaxed, or Lax.
 
Why is the suggested set running Iapapa Berry? That will only confuse it since it's a sour berry. With a Quiet nature you'll want to run a berry with a flavor +SpA mons will like which is dry, so a Wiki Berry is the way to go. Iapapa Berry would only be worthwhile if Wishiwashi was running Bold, Impish, Relaxed, or Lax.
Actually, it only gets confused if it dislikes the flavor; i.e., if the flavor corresponds to its decreased stat. Mago is the only berry that will confuse a -Spe Pokémon, the rest are fine.
 
Actually, it only gets confused if it dislikes the flavor; i.e., if the flavor corresponds to its decreased stat. Mago is the only berry that will confuse a -Spe Pokémon, the rest are fine.
Ah ok, I must've misread something elsewhere.
 
In doubles you could keep a Heal Pulse pokemon focused on it. If the partner pokemon has resistences to water(like Alomamola), Wishiwashi could use Surf to hit the entire opposition. And if Wishiwashi gets low on health you could try returning it, and then trying to get it back onto the field on an awaiting Wish. Would work good with a Rain Dance team equipped with Vaporeon.
 
In doubles you could keep a Heal Pulse pokemon focused on it. If the partner pokemon has resistences to water(like Alomamola), Wishiwashi could use Surf to hit the entire opposition. And if Wishiwashi gets low on health you could try returning it, and then trying to get it back onto the field on an awaiting Wish. Would work good with a Rain Dance team equipped with Vaporeon.
I actually like using Ribombee. Pollen Puff doubles as an attack, Speed Swap makes Wishiwashi terrifyingly fast, and Sweet Scent combos well with Muddy Water.
 
Wishiwashi is definitely a neat concept for a pokemon, and an interesting take on similar concepts like Archeops or Regigigas with the ability not really crippling it that much, but it suffers more from a poor movepool and that low hp. It's essentially slightly tankier than a non eviolite Dusclops. Which is to say, it is quite tanky, but it won't be sponging hits for days or anything. The typings are comparable too, with ghost only having two weaknesses as well though less resistances. Of course, this fish is a lot more offensive than Dusclops which is why it's more of a wallbreaker than a tank. But still, having some kind of reverse Zygarde Complete effect where it started off with more HP (like 70-80) just to be really bulky.

Or just having recovery would solve the issue as well. Then you could recover on a predicted hit that would drop you below 25 percent, go back to your schooling form and go from there. (I assume, anyway, that it works like Defeatist) Without anything beyond rest, though, you're prone to being worn down quick.

More coverage is desperately required as well. No boosting moves either, which is a shame. Ice/Ground/Water is decent coverage if not a bit redundant, but still, when that's literally your only option, it's lacking to say the least. If it had a better moveset, it could reasonably work as just a mixed wallbreaker that could threaten physical and special types alike with its excellent offensive stats. It can still do that, to an extent, but it still ultimately disappointing that it has no utility, no recovery, little to no coverage, and little flexibility. It's just a really hard hitting Water type, which is neat ,but there's not much else to it.
 
I'm no comp god here, but I feel like if you run trick room, you should run protect just in case. That would leave you with only one dmg move and also 1 coverage move, which yes, should be hpump, then you only got one coverage move. The question is now asked: Do we run resto chesto for recovery, Ice Beam for Grass-Types, or Bulldoze for Electric-Types? Here's what I think: Run Ice Beam for neutral on Electric and SE on Grass, and run a Wiki Berry for insane recovery (1/8 if it likes dry, which Quiet does). There IS a problem, though. Once you activate Trick Room, your Protect does become useless, so watch out for that.

Wishiwashi-School @ Wiki Berry
Ability: Schooling
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 5 Def / 5 SpD
Quiet Nature
- Trick Room
- Protect
- Ice Beam
- Hydro Pump
 
Firstly, I absolutely love this Pokemon's design, mainly because it reminds me of a book I used to read a lot when I was little. I seem to be the only one who realizes this, but this thing is practically ripped straight from the pages of Swimmy by Leo Lionni.
I read this book to my preschool classroom all the time. It's the first thing I thought of when I saw Wishiwashi! <3
 
Wishiwashi is definitely a neat concept for a pokemon, and an interesting take on similar concepts like Archeops or Regigigas with the ability not really crippling it that much, but it suffers more from a poor movepool and that low hp. It's essentially slightly tankier than a non eviolite Dusclops. Which is to say, it is quite tanky, but it won't be sponging hits for days or anything. The typings are comparable too, with ghost only having two weaknesses as well though less resistances. Of course, this fish is a lot more offensive than Dusclops which is why it's more of a wallbreaker than a tank. But still, having some kind of reverse Zygarde Complete effect where it started off with more HP (like 70-80) just to be really bulky.

Or just having recovery would solve the issue as well. Then you could recover on a predicted hit that would drop you below 25 percent, go back to your schooling form and go from there. (I assume, anyway, that it works like Defeatist) Without anything beyond rest, though, you're prone to being worn down quick.

More coverage is desperately required as well. No boosting moves either, which is a shame. Ice/Ground/Water is decent coverage if not a bit redundant, but still, when that's literally your only option, it's lacking to say the least. If it had a better moveset, it could reasonably work as just a mixed wallbreaker that could threaten physical and special types alike with its excellent offensive stats. It can still do that, to an extent, but it still ultimately disappointing that it has no utility, no recovery, little to no coverage, and little flexibility. It's just a really hard hitting Water type, which is neat ,but there's not much else to it.
I'm pretty sure that if you manage to recover before the turn is over, Schooling won't even activate, since it changes at the end of the turn. It' very different from Defeatist.
 
I'm pretty sure that if you manage to recover before the turn is over, Schooling won't even activate, since it changes at the end of the turn. It' very different from Defeatist.
Likewise, recovering after transforming into a little fish won't change you back into a school until the end of the turn, though now that I think about it, even though Solo form is faster, 40 speed still isn't enough to outspeed much outside of Trick Room, so I guess it doesn't really matter if you don't transform immediately, since you'll probably be dead before you can even Rest.
 
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