What's wrong with today's pre-college education?

[patera_silk]

Education is the stem of society; it really goes without saying that education is one of the most vital parts of any civilization. It seems to me, however, as though America's pre-college education (grades 1 to 12) are suffering from an appalling lack of quality; it is an universally accepted fact that American schools are already several years behind the Asian and European countries. It is truly saddening that I must have a full-AP schedule just to give myself a challenge.

Of course, not everyone feels the same way. Regardless, I find that the people who are more capable than the average student (99.99% of Smogon, probably, including me) are being done a disservice by this educational system; classes in general pander to the lowest intellectual denominator and replace thoughtful discussion with tedious worksheets and endless PowerPoint presentations. Instead of learning and, perhaps more importantly, learning to enjoy learning, students are force-fed information. For the above-average, this really is boring; I am certain you know exactly what I refer to. The sort of work that you finish within a few minutes and wonder why you are the first to be done with such a simple assignment; in short, the things that are exceedingly simple to an insulting extent and are an utter waste of time in general.

Of course! That is not to say that all classes are horrible. There are diamonds in the rough here and there.

Still, it's rather insulting to be presented with mindless tedium that is of little to no actual value. I sit back in class and realize that I could be learning so much more. If only..!~

 

[chenman333]

I don't do my real learning at school.

 

[patera_silk]

Quite true. Then again, the fact that we must self-educate ourselves says something about America's education.

 

[ultimifier]

i find that the school system in general is lacking, for people like me at least. i went through high school being (very) smart and had no trouble. Not doing homework once all through school because i didnt need to, still getting over 90 and getting a scholarship to queens, which is one of canada's best universities.

once i got into university i went through classes feeling like i was learning nothing, which is EXACTLY what happened in high school. Except at university i was supposed to be learning things but because of how useless high school was i still learned nothing. I pretty much only went to half of my classes all year and just studied the textbooks as i was never taught how to learn from someone else teaching me, i always had to teach myself.

so i pretty much think that high school is taught entirely wrong and there should be more electives. the teaching style should be different so that people actually learn things like WHY something happens other then just HOW it happens.

end of rant. probably not very legible but i can explain anything if anyone wants

 

[General Tso]

After reading a bunch of manga involving Japanese high school life (Not exactly the most accurate representation), I see how flawed our system really is.

First off, the Japanese operate almost year round. Start in April, one month break during July, come back for August till about Christmas, then finish January through March. See they don't really get a lot of breaks, but at the same time, the students don't know how having more breaks feels like so they adapt.

Second, look at how the Japanese handle high school entries: high school entrance exams! You actually have to show that you learned something in middle school and not be handed a spot in high school! Furthermore, although there are still some junior highs around, the high schools in my area are from 9-12. I firmly believe that 9th graders don't yet have the mentality of high school and they just don't get how important college is. So you have 9th graders being forced information in an environment that they're not ready for. Once you struggle from the start, it's hard to recover throughout a high school career.

In class, I'm not exactly sure what is the problem (although I know there is a problem.) Are students too dependent on worksheets? Are lectures too long? Maybe it'd be better if students stay in one class and teachers be the ones who switch classes or something. I know for sure though that, especially in my school, there are some... not so "high-quality" teachers which hurts us. Perhaps there should be more regulation with teachers?

Whatever the case, there is something inherently wrong with this system and someone needs to fix it.

 

[Tangerine]

The only thing you need to get from Highschool is getting a good study habit.

Nothing else. Everything you learn in Highschool is largely irrelevant in college. If you're able to learn by yourself, then that's even better.

Just don't get into the habit of slacking off because you know everything or you think you can get away with it... that'll screw you over in college (I know this from personal experience). The educational system may be "flawed" but to be honest, it can't really help it. It has to appeal to the masses, not the 1%. Then again, if you show that you are intelligent in High School, teachers will recognize you and some might even challenge you by giving you extra stuff.

Also... comparing everything to the Japanese School System without showing the flaws of it isn't really the best thing you can do. Real Education starts at College. Japanese/Korean High School system has their own set of flaws... like the system rarely holds people back, and it's a system where everything is test based. It does not really nurture creativity, which is what is actually valued nowadays.

 

[Mountain Dewgong]

First off, the Japanese operate almost year round. Start in April, one month break during July, come back for August till about Christmas, then finish January through March. See they don't really get a lot of breaks, but at the same time, the students don't know how having more breaks feels like so they adapt.

Second, look at how the Japanese handle high school entries: high school entrance exams! You actually have to show that you learned something in middle school and not be handed a spot in high school! Furthermore, although there are still some junior highs around, the high schools in my area are from 9-12. I firmly believe that 9th graders don't yet have the mentality of high school and they just don't get how important college is. So you have 9th graders being forced information in an environment that they're not ready for. Once you struggle from the start, it's hard

Whatever the case, there is something inherently wrong with this system and someone needs to fix it.

To add to General Tso's statement, after visiting Japan and having numerous Japanese home-stays in my residence I'm at shock at how much work they do. Rarely would they go to sleep before midnight, as they are studying. And they have specialized 'cram' schools, in which they CHOOSE to attend to further learning, all this on top of regular education.

Now this yearning to learn (if you excuse the rhyme) is what separates countries like New Zealand, Australia (I have attended schools in both of these countries) and the US (I would presume) from schools in Asian and European countries. Countries where it is mandatory to learn multiple languages. For example, Japanese students must have an acceptable grasp on the English language, and a German exchange student at my school speaks in German, French and English <i>fluently</i>. At my school, there is a large amount of people who have less of a grasp on their own language than this student does. Edit, I forgot this point: The nonchalant attitude to learning that is being cultivated in such countries is leading to people who do not wish to attend school and see it as more of a chore than a right, as it is regarded in these Asian/European cultures. I mean, who can argue with Japans 99.5%+ literacy rate.

I am sick of the classes and teachers who aim their teachings at the pupils with a 'lower capacity to learn'. Streaming of classes should occur and these students should be separated, providing the appropriate challenges for the appropriate levels of student.

In New Zealand there is a 'scholarship' level, in which you are asked to enroll in, where it is above and beyond what you get taught. Which I am currently doing, which provides a great challenge, as it's necessarily a more advanced course, with different exams while not having it's own class, so the learning is almost entirely up to you, with maybe weekly/fortnightly meetings at lunch times. As well as a monetary reward if you pass individual scholarship papers at the end of the year.

 

[TaiCrunch]

The main problem I've seen is everyone's worried about the student population as a whole, No Child Left Behind blah blah blah. There's several kids in school that clearly don't want to be there and hold back the ones that do. And they pretty much forced to be there, most of them being discouraged from the option of dropping out. So the students that actually give a damn about education are stuck sitting there with their thumbs in their asses while the system is busting its ass catering to people that don't care no matter how much attention they're given.

sorry rant.

 

[Kay [Old]]

Then again, if you show that you are intelligent in High School, teachers will recognize you and some might even challenge you by giving you extra stuff.

This, pretty much. My history teachers gave me loads of shit to write and research about in my free time and largely left me to my own devices in their classes, and I remember it being very enjoyable and intellectually fun, as I genuinely love studying history, which will be one of my majors later on.
To tell the truth, the fact that high school is fairly easy for anyone with a brain who puts even in a modicum of effort is fine, as college is where it's really at. Work hard in high school so you can get into a good school later on, and you'll never be bored over in college. Also, learn good study habits as it'll pay off immensely in college (as I have learned the hard way.)

 

[Doctor Heartbreak]

whut

the japanese high school system is so broken and terrible

students mostly sleep through high school classes, they focus on the cram school someone mentioned, which runs very late into the night and focuses exclusively on the entrance exams for universities. so they ignore the actual knowledge-based learning portion of their education and expend all their energy on learning to pass tests

so counterproductive

 

[Force Majeure]

The problem with the primary and secondary educational systems in the states is the frightening trend of lowering standards in order to meet badly-constructed benchmarks. In Indiana, there are several tricks that the state and local educational systems use to lower standards, and there have been cases wherein the superintendent of my high school asked the teachers to inflate grades for failing seniors in order to push up the graduation rate.

Of course, there's the inherently broken No Child Left Behind Act, but talking about it is beating a dead horse. But for those of you who don't understand it, here's the reader's digest version:

1) impose standards on the states.
2) Let the states define the standards and change them at will.
3) Allow the states to continue using their own standardized testing structures.
4) ???
5) Profit.

The problem ultimately stems from the state-run nature of the educational system: since states can't write off budget deficits like the federal government can, one of the first things to go when times get rough is educational funding. The U.S. is one of the few (only?) Westernized countries to delegate control of educational systems to state governments.

Another problem that I see (although this is purely conjecture) is that most schools have the students learning a foreign language (if any) starting in high school. This is a bit of a problem.

 

[Firestorm]

American students snooze through high school and then have to hit the books in university.
Japanese students study frantically through high school and party through university.

The #1 problem with high school education in the United States is parents. Parents go off when they see their wonderful children are completely failures who aren't even trying to learn. As a result, there's increasing pressure on teachers to pass them even if they don't deserve it. The parents' word is law.

 

[Mountain Dewgong]

Another problem that I see (although this is purely conjecture) is that most schools have the students learning a foreign language (if any) starting in high school. This is a bit of a problem.

o_O You mean, that they DON'T have them learning one? Or the opposite?

 

[Force Majeure]

o_O You mean, that they DON'T have them learning one? Or the opposite?

Hm. I guess I'm exhibit A, then. :p

I meant that schools are starting students in foreign languages too late.

 

[Trax]

I believe a simpler question is "what is right with today's pre-college education", you'd get shorter answers and we'd know what to keep..

 

[Ice-Master]

It's not just that the educational system is getting bad (especially here in Florida) but the students are getting lazier, and thus the board decides not to put as much effort, teachers stop caring, intelligent students (much like me) get lazy due to the lack of effort of those around them, and they stop trying. Like im pretty sure I have already made at least four grammar mistakes, and this is mostly due to the fact that there isn't a single student in my English 1 class who gives a damn.
Frankly, it pisses me off.

 

[Onii]

The problem ultimately stems from the state-run nature of the educational system: since states can't write off budget deficits like the federal government can, one of the first things to go when times get rough is educational funding. The U.S. is one of the few (only?) Westernized countries to delegate control of educational systems to state governments.

Australia does the same thing, and I don't think the budget's the problem. I don't about the US, but over here, there is actually enough people who acknowledge the importance of education to make cutting funding political suicide.

Personally, I'd say that the problem OP's describing is that everyone does the same thing regardless of their level. The only way to get around that is to separate students according to ability, which doesn't seem to be very popular (especially for primary/lower secondary levels) for some reason, but it works. Case in point: New South Wales has an incredibly well-run selective schools system, which takes the best students, and... makes them even better.

Like im pretty sure I have already made at least four grammar mistakes, and this is mostly due to the fact that there isn't a single student in my English 1 class who gives a damn.

Yeah, I think that's entirely your fault.

 

[Ice-Master]

Yeah, I think's entirely your fault.

Thanks for the self-esteem...TT
The fact that I made the grammar mistakes probably is my fault, but I don't try, because my teacher does not try, because the students don't try.

 

[Glen]

lol stop glorifying the japanese school system just because you like manga

grade school and high school in japan are almost entirely rote memorization (and an absurd sum of it, which has been mentioned) with almost no problem solving/creative thinking/group work. not to mention the fact that their universities are quite awful by comparison.

from what i've learned when i was in japan, university there is basically a four year break from the non-stop schoolwork you've been doing the for the last decade or so. you try to spend most of the time making connections, which in japan means so much more than anything the actual curriculum can give you. i don't envy that system at all.

as for north america (im canadian but our woes are roughly the same with regards to education) i think the problem isn't the education system, but the stupid people. those who actually want something more than the curriculum can give them will usually do most of their learning outside of it, and can at least get some form of fulfillment that way. they need to dumb shit down so the stupid kids can pass.

i suppose it's troubling in some ways to have to be an autodidact, but really, if you're as smart as you think you are then i'm sure you can handle learning on your own, and self-reliance is a much more important life skill than anything high school can teach you.

i guess what i'm trying to say is the education institution isn't very good at all, but considering how fucking stupid most people are you really can't blame them. if they were to go OKAY NOBODY GRADUATES UNTIL YOU STOP BEING DUMB then our society would crumble.

to be as vague and mystical as i can, i think it's safe to say that education is a test to see if you can see beyond it.

 

[WaterBomb]

I think there are several factors contributing to this problem. I'll make a more elaborate post later, but for now I'll list them (in no particular order):

1) Parents (in general) are not emphasizing education and learning. They hand their kids tons of video games and leave them in their room for hours rather than be involved in their lives.

2) Teachers (in general) are becoming more disinterested in the kids they teach because there is no longer a relationship between teacher and parent. Education, rather than a team effort, has become a struggle against the kid AND the parents.

3) Schools don't have the balls to fail kids anymore because they're afraid of getting sued/yelled at/whatever by angry parents who think their kids are God's gift to the world, or losing their Government tax money. Kids who shouldn't pass are getting passed through grade after grade without achieving the proper levels of intelligence, and so the problem just compounds itself.

4) Colleges are more interested in money now than integrity. As a result, they've lowered their acceptance standards and are now letting in anyone with a pulse. I think this is partly based on this new-age mentality that "everyone should go to college", when really college isn't for everyone. As a further result, more degrees are being handed out and the degrees themselves become more meaningless (because they are less rare and so easy to achieve).

5) In other countries, teachers and schools are viewed in a much higher regard as a profession and an institution, and subsequently are paid more/receive more government funding. In America, teachers are almost seen as a low-end job, and schools are seen as expendable luxuries.


As someone who experienced the school systems of two different countries (as a student), went all the way through American college, and is now a teacher in that same American school system, I have seen all of this firsthand, and it really disgusts me. I do my best to make learning fun and interesting, but I feel like it's a constant battle not just against the students, but against the parents and the administration as well. And $45,000 a year is barely enough to live on in Northern Virginia...

 

[Polis4rule]

It is truly saddening that I must have a full-AP schedule just to give myself a challenge.

Congrats in being in the top 1% of all humans, but not everyone is up to that challenge or is that smart. Most kids are just average, so the school system must best prepare those average students for college. Of course, a system must also have ways at appealing the "elite" of society and offer them such things as AP classes.

I think the main problem with schools is the wide range of quality of teachers.

 

[CaptKirby]

Japanese students also have to waste massive amounts of time learning really pointless writing skills. Chinese students too!

I think that the top obvious answer, in the United States, is teaching toward standardized testing. It allows teachers to push bad students off toward the aim of a worthless goal instead of giving them real teaching; it does nothing but waste the time of those students who already know every single thing on these tests (I never scored worse than a 91% on any part of any standardized testing any year, any test, yet I wasted not only hours taking the tests, but also on the "preparation").

I think that the breaks in the United States are too long, but a longer school day by an hour or two might be a better solution for that, since people perceive losing a full day as more problematic than losing parts of days they are already losing by being in school.

 

[Chronos]

I'm actually reading a book on this exact topic called "The Dumbest Generation".
Mainly his point comes down to the fact that despite the so called benefits of a digital age, computer / social networking / texting is actually keeping students from maturing. It also causes kids to read, but not retain, knowledge.
I recommend the book, not very long, but it's been a good read so far.

 

[Olie]

ALBERTA High Schools are a joke. You do almost no work in class, and can easily pull of a 75 (about a 3.0), then you can get into almost any program at a good university that you wish (barring Medicine and Engineering). First year university is a rediculous adjustment from high school though, but you have to make it work I guess.

 

[Firestorm]

Alberta High Schools are a joke. You do almost no work in class, and can easily pull of a 75 (about a 3.0), then you can get into almost any program at a good university that you wish (barring Medicine and Engineering). First year university is a rediculous adjustment from high school though, but you have to make it work I guess.

Fixed because apparently you don't learn that education is provincial in Alberta ;)

Personally, I liked high school. I took electives in subjects I thought I had an interest in to figure out what I should do once I graduated. I joined the FIRST Robotics team and played a variety of roles from programming to marketing to, again, figure out what I liked to do. I took honours classes from beginning (grade 8) to end (grade 12). All in all, a worthwhile experience =) Not to mention I still keep in touch with many of my friends from then.

If you find high school easy, you have time to do extra curricular activities. Do them. Robotics gave me amazing experience I've been able to put on my resume and scholarship applications. If you're only doing schoolwork and are being bored because of that, then I think we've found your problem.