Pokémon Weavile

[Aragorn the King]

Weavile - The Sharp Claw Pokémon

X Flavor Text - "It lives in snowy regions. It carves patterns in trees with its claws as a signal to others."
Y Flavor Text - "They live in cold regions, forming groups of four or five that hunt prey with impressive coordination."

Pokédex Number - #461 (National) | #92 (Mountain)

Type - Base Stats - 70 HP / 120 Atk / 65 Def / 45 SAtk / 85 SDef / 125 Spe

Abilities:

Pressure: When a Pokémon with Pressure is targeted by a foe's move, one additional PP is deducted upon execution. Consequently, extra PP is deducted even if the foe's move misses, has multiple targets, or is rendered ineffective due to immunity.

Pickpocket (Hidden): Whenever an opponent makes contact with the user of Pickpocket, it steals the opponent's held item. It will fail if the user is holding an item or if either Pokémon is behind a Substitute.

Notable Moves (Bold indicates STAB):

- Swords Dance (TM 75)
- Ice Shard (Sneasle)
- Ice Punch (Egg)
- Pursuit (Egg)
- Knock Off (Transfer)
- Low Kick (Transfer)


General Analysis:

Weavile is an underrated and underused Pokemon. While solidly UU last Generation, this Generation it has ended up in BL. Clearly something has changed. Now, Weavile has a 97.5 BP STAB Dark move coming off of its 120 Attack! That, paired with its fantastic secondary STAB in Ice, decent coverage, and superb Speed are all reasons why Weavile is a fantastic late game cleaner.

Movesets:

All Out Attacker

Weavile @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Ice Shard
- Ice Punch / Pursuit
- Low Kick

Set Description:

This Weavile makes an excellent late game cleaner. It has an absurdly powerful Knock Off, that, in this metagame, has fantastic coverage. Ice Shard provides relatively powerful priority, and Ice Punch is used for Ice STAB. It hits a lot less hard than Knock Off, but is still useful for hitting Dragon, Flying, Ground, and Grass types super effectively. In the last slot, Low Kick is useful for hitting Tyranitar, Heatran, Ferrothorn, and Terrakion very hard. This set is best used as either a revenge killer, a late game sweeper, or a hit and run attacker. Pursuit can be used instead of Ice Punch for trapping very weakened Pokemon as well, but it misses an Ice STAB move with decent power.

Other Options

• Choice Band can work.
• It can use Swords Dance, but it's usually too frail to pull it off.
• Substitute + Protect + Pressure can be used to stall out moves low on PP such as Close Combat and Stone Edge.
• Don't use Icicle Crash. It isn't worth not using Knock Off.
• Focus Sash + Pickpocket is very niche.

Overall, Weavile is a very underrated Pokemon that uses its great Speed and good Attack to perform easy late game cleans. Discuss below your favorite sets of Weavile's that you've used, and how Weavile has been effectively used against you!

 

[effyouzion]

Should take off pursuit from the choice band set and slash it on the life orb set instead. Being locked into pursuit is really shitty, especially when things like Bisharp and mega Ttar only need 1 free turn to set up and take out half your team.

 

[VanGru]

I would never recommend icicle crash, its not all that more powerful than ice punch and the accuracy is pretty bad.

 

[Mahmudkipz]

Needs to mention Sash lead with Pickpocket IMO, it might not be the best set but it is fun to use lol

 

[Milkshook]

Needs to mention Sash lead with Pickpocket IMO, it might not be the best set but it is fun to use lol

One time I ran into such a set. I had my scarfed pokemon bring Weavile down to its sash then Weavile stole my scarf and locked itself into swords dance, >_<.

Focus sash is a very viable item but with the Pressure ability.

 

[Chou Toshio]

Sash / Swords Dance seems pretty silly in this meta full of priority-- but I could see Sash + Pick Pocket and attacks (and maybe Counter).

 

[midend]

Sash / Swords Dance seems pretty silly in this meta full of priority-- but I could see Sash + Pick Pocket and attacks (and maybe Counter).

Except that it has priority too

 

[Mahmudkipz]

You can always use Fake Out on the Sash set to scout for items. The only bad thing is, you die if you steal a Life Orb, and you don't want to steal a specs or another sash. And if there is something you really don't want to steal you can use Ice Shard, but that might not kill.

As I have said, it is really situational but it is fun to use. If you simply want to remove opponent's items you should just spam Knock Off.

 

[VanGru]

Except that it has priority too

And its priority outspeeds the most common prio in ou(tflames bb)

 

[Chou Toshio]

Except that it has priority too

And it's priority is weak as shit thanks to 40 base power, no boosting ability, and a meager 120 base ATK.

120 base ATK, no boosting ability, and no boosting item make Ice Shard almost worthless for a 1HP Weavile with a broken sash...

It ain't sweeping shit with that, even at +2.

 

[VanGru]

And it's priority is weak as shit thanks to 40 base power, no boosting ability, and a meager 120 base ATK.

120 base ATK, no boosting ability, and no boosting item make Ice Shard almost worthless for a 1HP Weavile with a broken sash...

It ain't sweeping shit with that, even at +2.

Ice shard is a revenge killing move, you are right, it shouldnt be used on the sd set, making sashvile even more silly. 120 base attack isnt meager but should be enhanced by lo or cb.

 

[Rotosect]

And it's priority is weak as shit thanks to 40 base power, no boosting ability, and a meager 120 base ATK.

120 base ATK, no boosting ability, and no boosting item make Ice Shard almost worthless for a 1HP Weavile with a broken sash...

It ain't sweeping shit with that, even at +2.

I don't disagree that Weavile's Ice Shard isn't as strong as it seems but... when did base 120 attack (the same as Arceus) become "meager"?

 

[Chou Toshio]

I don't disagree that Weavile's Ice Shard isn't as strong as it seems but... when did base 120 attack (the same as Arceus) become "meager"?

Arceus has a STAB 80 Base power attack... I hardly see how that's comparable.

120 is f'ing insane when you're using a Reckless boosted 120 base power STAB Flying attack (Starapter).

120 is amazing when you have Download and every attack in the world going for you (Genesect).

120 is meager for making use of a 40 base power priority attack with only STAB and no ability boost (I mean, Mamoswine's shard is pretty unimpressive priority in this gen, and even Conk's Mach Punch is still kinda meh-- Conk's almost better off running more coverage attacks). No one raves about Starapter's Quick Attack either...

 

[Jaroda]

Weavile's natural speed and offensive STAB are brutal in this meta, more so than ever now since Steel doesn't resist Dark. Ice is as good as ever and STAB Knock Off is so hard to switch into. Weavile is a great revenge killer or end game sweeper with priority for insurance, only having Extremespeed to fear. Ice Shard and Pursuit means that there is very little he can't revenge kill with low enough health. LO should be the go to item. His moves are so quirky he can't afford to be stuck on one and the recoil isn't much of a factor, even though it will really rack up with SR weakness. If only he got Tough Claws as an ability though. I mean seriously.

 

[VanGru]

Weavile's natural speed and offensive STAB are brutal in this meta, more so than ever now since Steel doesn't resist Dark. Ice is as good as ever and STAB Knock Off is so hard to switch into. Weavile is a great revenge killer or end game sweeper with priority for insurance, only having Extremespeed to fear. Ice Shard and Pursuit means that there is very little he can't revenge kill with low enough health. LO should be the go to item. His moves are so quirky he can't afford to be stuck on one and the recoil isn't much of a factor, even though it will really rack up with SR weakness. If only he got Tough Claws as an ability though. I mean seriously.

I don't get what gamefreak was thinking giving him such useless abilities. IMO tough claws would be logical, cause its that sharp claw pokemon.

 

[Rotosect]

Refrigerate would also be an awesome ability on Weavile. Suddenly Return and Quick Attack scare the crap out of anything that doesn't resist ice. Oh and there's still that STAB Knock Off for kicks.
Hopefully it gets a mega evo (it's a rather popular pokemon so it might get one) with Technician, Refrigerate or Tough Claws.

Back on topic, has anyone considered running Power-Up Punch on the all-out attacker set?
Use it to revenge kill something low on health and you can enjoy the benefits of LO and +1 attack boost. Ice Shard, Knock Off and Low Kick should be the other 3 moves.

A couple of notable benefits from PuP:

252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 307-361 (79.5 - 93.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 458-541 (118.6 - 140.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 185-218 (60.8 - 71.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (actually a 3HKO after the item is dropped)
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 274-325 (90.1 - 106.9%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO

 

[janesasha22]

I don't get what gamefreak was thinking giving him such useless abilities. IMO tough claws would be logical, cause its that sharp claw pokemon.

I love your signature. Also, I don't think we should be theorymoning on this thread. We probably should just be talking about what Weavile can actually do.

 

[Aragorn the King]

Thanks everyone for replying! So, is there a consensus to how the movesets should be changed? It seemed like I placed Ice Shard + Pursuit on the wrong sets, but I'm not 100% sure.

 

[trc]

Weavile has some serious flaws, but it can actually contribute to a team quite nicely. Its Speed is blazing, at a nice base 125, which allows it outspeed things such as Starmie, Tornadus-T, Greninja, and Thundurus, which are often considered to be "fast" Pokemon in the metagame. Its Attack is also pretty good, at base 120, which makes it quite an excellent late game sweeper. In my opinion, its best set is the All-Out Attacker set, which utilizes a Life Orb to clean late game as well as revenge kill a large amount of Pokemon, as it naturally outspeeds the majority of the metagame. While Pursuit was a staple move in BW, it is not nearly as useful as it used to be, as Celebi, Jellicent, and Starmie are definitely not as common as they once were; they are all UU in terms of usage. Pursuit's main targets are Latios, Latias, and Gengar, which isn't nearly enough to justify a moveslot over something like Knock Off. Speaking of Knock Off, the buff to Knock Off (and the Dark-type in general) has immensely helped Weavile as it can now break through Steel-types that don't mind Low Kick, while also knocking off their precious items. The item loss is excellent as a foe switches in, even if it happens to resist Knock Off. It is one of the only Pokemon with Ice Shard, which allows it to get the jump on Choice Scarf Garchomp, Choice Scarf Landorus-T, and Noivern. It is a real shame that it finally manages to get Icicle Crash in XY, but it cannot afford to put it on a set over Ice Punch as Icicle Crash is illegal with Low Kick, which is so essential for things like Ferrothorn, Tyranitar, and Heatran. The All-Out Attacker set should, in about 90% of cases, run Knock Off / Ice Punch / Low Kick / Ice Shard, and the Jolly nature is essential to preserve Weavile's wonderful Speed tier. The Choice Band set isn't actually that good I'm afraid, not only because being locked into Pursuit is not a good idea, but simply because other Choice Band users such as Tyranitar have much better bulk; Weavile is paper frail and can not afford to switch in on anything. Its frailty is a huge issue, and its offensive capabilities barely makes up for it. It has no form of defense against Mach Punch and Bullet Punch, as well as Choice Scarf users that don't mind Ice Shard. This makes the Swords Dance set a very niche choice over other Swords Dance users, and it is a very subpar choice. For that reason, I think the Life Orb set should be the only set, and that Weavile is a good pick in the metagame, but it struggles with its severe frailty.

 

[VanGru]

While we debate pursuit, Ive been using it for clearing out any counter to keldeo, the two work pretty well with eachother.

 

[nkhlshnd99]

Could pickpocket work with focus sash?

 

[Jaroda]

Pursuit isn't solely meant for Psychic/Ghost types. With Weavile's threatening Spd it can force many switches on weakened mon simply from the threat of its fast attacks and Ice Shard. This inclination to force switches turns Pursuit with STAB into a 120 BP attack on fleeing opponents. You don't have to be weak to Dark to take a beating from that. Now picture a good wall that got weakened to around 25-45% health and is obviously slower than Weavile but has the opportunity to get healed up later if it can prompt a switch later.

252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Pursuit vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Venusaur: 134-160 (36.8 - 43.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Pursuit vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Manaphy: 161-191 (47.2 - 56%) -- 25% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 265-312 (67.2 - 79.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Pursuit vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Landorus: 175-208 (54.6 - 65%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Pursuit vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Dragonite: 168-199 (43.5 - 51.5%) -- 6.3% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Pursuit vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 226-268 (69.7 - 82.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

All these calcs are assuming switchouts. As you can see, Weavile's Pursuit is often doing ~50% damage against most neutral opponents. If you had a Dragonite or Landorus-I at 50% health and they switched in a Weavile you'd be nuts trying to face it outside of Dragonite being at +1 with Extremespeed with Stealth Rock. The threat of Ice Shard/Ice Punch and STAB Knock Off are enough to send these guys running from the hills to fight another day, only to end up taking a massive beating from Pursuit. Remember that for all of these calcs, outside of Mega Venusaur, Knock Off would hit even harder, so that's the kind of Pressure (lulz) Weavile can put on you. Tyranitar is a great trapper with Pursuit, Mamoswine is a great revenge killer with Ice Shard, Greninja is a naturally fast revenge killer, but Weavile is all three in one.

Now obviously prediction works both ways when it comes to Pursuit and you can easily mispredict their switching and only getting off a much weaker Pursuit. So that makes it more of a risk against any opponent with more than 25% health remaining. But it still puts your opponent in a bind that you could always play safe if you want and stick with Knock Off/Ice Punch. It's one hell of a catch 22. More like a catch 23 even.

So this makes me think his best set is:

Weavile@Life Orb
Pressure/Pickpocket
Jolly 4 HP / 252 At / 252 Spd
~ Knock Off/Ice Punch
~ Pursuit/Ice Punch
~ Low Kick
~ Ice Shard

And don't go gimmick with FocusPocket (?). With the prevalence of Knock Off in the meta having Pickpocket be your regular ability isn't the worst choice. Not that you should be switching into those kind of moves or getting hit with Weavile in the first place, but Pressure is nearly equally useless considering Weavile's "stalling" potential.

 

[trc]

This should explain about hoy much more important Ice Punch is than Pursuit, or really any other move.
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/weavile.3495135/page-3#post-5256611

 

[KOTR]

Don't like this thing in OU at all.

I hate to use this argument because it can be kind of frustrating for the person you're using it against, but it must be said: what does Weavile do that Bisharp doesn't do better? Their respective strengths are virtually identical: Knock Off, Pursuit, etc. The big differences I see are all in favor of Bisharp. Not only is Bisharp's priority stronger, but it's ATK is five points higher as well. Bisharp can also take a physical hit, which is important considering they both have a very terrible 4x Fighting weakness.

Their respective types and abilities are also notable. Dark/Steel gives an out to the popular Fairy-type whereas Dark/Ice is likely walled to kingdom come by Clefable and beaten to death by Azumarill. Bisharp's "Defiant" ability is very often relevant in a format where Sticky Web, Defog, King's Shield, and Intimidate are all things but Pressure isn't all that great on a Pokemon as frail as Weavile. Historically, Pressure has been much better on Pokemon with appreciable such as Mewtwo and Suicune if memory serves. Pickpocket seems completely useless.

There's also the issue of Aegislash. When it comes to trapping the Sword, Weavile has problems with King's Shield. Smart use of the Shield can reduce Weavile's ATK enough to where she can't get the job done and must switch out or be KO'd with Sacred Sword. Bisharp's Defiant makes this basically unfeasible: Bisharp's ATK will only ever get higher and Aegislash must switch out because inevitability is most certainly not on its side. Another problem is Aegislash resisting Ice Shard, which means Weavile must rely on Pursuit or Knock Off to KO and risk having her pitiful DEF preyed upon by Shadow Sneak. Bisharp's Sucker Punch doesn't have this problem.

We also must mention Stealth Rock. Weavile is weak, Bisharp is not. Weakness to Stealth Rock is probably it's biggest problem because having one's ability to switch in and out severely limits one's ability to revenge kill, which is one thing you want something this fast and strong to do.

Aside from priority, what does Weavile have over Kyurem-B when it comes to clean-up and wallbreaking? What you gain is a much higher attack, a better movepool, and an all-around sturdier Pokemon. A Scarfed Kyurem-B with a Speed investment still outruns things like +1 Dragonite and Gyarados. Furthermore Teravolt negating things like Multiscale and Levitate gives Kyurem-B notable advantages against top tier Pokemon that Weavile does not have. Furthermore, Kyurem-B obviously does not make for a good revenge killer, sure, but if we've covered already a good reason why Weavile isn't a good choice for that either (granted, Mega Pinsir and Talonflame also have a SR weakness, but the trade-off with those two is one of MUCH, MUCH higher power).

It's also true that they are both weak to common priority (a bad thing for a cleaner) but one of these two actually has appreciable defensive stats. What good was Weavile as your cleaner after it died to a single Bullet Punch? Would you rather bank your late game on what is essentially a paper cut-out of a real Pokemon or a fat dragon that can take a hit? I would rather not leverage against what is essentially a single misprediction game over.

There's just no reason to use Weavile at all. It's power isn't even close to high enough to offset its frailty and Stealth Rock weakness. Everything it could possibly do decently is done better by something else.

Bench her.

 

[Aragorn the King]

Don't like this thing in OU at all.

I hate to use this argument because it can be kind of frustrating for the person you're using it against, but it must be said: what does Weavile do that Bisharp doesn't do better? Their respective strengths are virtually identical: Knock Off, Pursuit, etc. The big differences I see are all in favor of Bisharp. Not only is Bisharp's priority stronger, but it's ATK is five points higher as well. Bisharp can also take a physical hit, which is important considering they both have a very terrible 4x Fighting weakness.

Their respective types and abilities are also notable. Dark/Steel gives an out to the popular Fairy-type whereas Dark/Ice is likely walled to kingdom come by Clefable and beaten to death by Azumarill. Bisharp's "Defiant" ability is very often relevant in a format where Sticky Web, Defog, King's Shield, and Intimidate are all things but Pressure isn't all that great on a Pokemon as frail as Weavile. Historically, Pressure has been much better on Pokemon with appreciable such as Mewtwo and Suicune if memory serves. Pickpocket seems completely useless.

There's also the issue of Aegislash. When it comes to trapping the Sword, Weavile has problems with King's Shield. Smart use of the Shield can reduce Weavile's ATK enough to where she can't get the job done and must switch out or be KO'd with Sacred Sword. Bisharp's Defiant makes this basically unfeasible: Bisharp's ATK will only ever get higher and Aegislash must switch out because inevitability is most certainly not on its side. Another problem is Aegislash resisting Ice Shard, which means Weavile must rely on Pursuit or Knock Off to KO and risk having her pitiful DEF preyed upon by Shadow Sneak. Bisharp's Sucker Punch doesn't have this problem.

We also must mention Stealth Rock. Weavile is weak, Bisharp is not. Weakness to Stealth Rock is probably it's biggest problem because having one's ability to switch in and out severely limits one's ability to revenge kill, which is one thing you want something this fast and strong to do.

Aside from priority, what does Weavile have over Kyurem-B when it comes to clean-up and wallbreaking? What you gain is a much higher attack, a better movepool, and an all-around sturdier Pokemon. A Scarfed Kyurem-B with a Speed investment still outruns things like +1 Dragonite and Gyarados. Furthermore Teravolt negating things like Multiscale and Levitate gives Kyurem-B notable advantages against top tier Pokemon that Weavile does not have. Furthermore, Kyurem-B obviously does not make for a good revenge killer, sure, but if we've covered already a good reason why Weavile isn't a good choice for that either (granted, Mega Pinsir and Talonflame also have a SR weakness, but the trade-off with those two is one of MUCH, MUCH higher power).

It's also true that they are both weak to common priority (a bad thing for a cleaner) but one of these two actually has appreciable defensive stats. What good was Weavile as your cleaner after it died to a single Bullet Punch? Would you rather bank your late game on what is essentially a paper cut-out of a real Pokemon or a fat dragon that can take a hit? I would rather not leverage against what is essentially a single misprediction game over.

There's just no reason to use Weavile at all. It's power isn't even close to high enough to offset its frailty and Stealth Rock weakness. Everything it could possibly do decently is done better by something else.

Bench her.

It can get past Dragon-types easily with its Ice Stab. Nearly 100% of dragons have ground and fire moves, which wreck Bisharp. I honestly don't see a comparison between the all-out-attacking Weavile and Bisharp. Bisharp's ability abuses Sticky Web and intimidate, and has super strong priority. However, it's speed is just a bit better than awful. Weavile, on the other hand, is super fast. Weavile's main niche comes from its super speed, which allows it to revenge kill Pokemon, while not having to use priority.

You're right it's not overall as good as Kyu-B or Bisharp, but its niche is different enough from both of them to make it viable.