Resource VGC 2024 Regulation F Viability Rankings

[LovelyLuna]

Woah update, reflects most meta changes really well imo, I do think some of these are being exaggerated / understated though. My current thoughts <3

Landorus from A -> A+

I think the reasoning of Raging Bolt 's rise also applies to Landorus. The significant rise in Calm Mind Raging Bolt Bulky Offense, currently one of the best teams right now, so good in fact that it allowed Landorus to triumph Flutter Mane in the day 2 usage stats. Of course this isn't the only team Landorus fits on, and it isn't the only reason I'm proposing a rise. Landorus 's Ground STAB and power is incredible right now, incredibly difficult to switch in on and you'll come to notice that the majority of teams have a noticeable Ground weakness, as a Fire-type + Raging Bolt are on so many teams, the teams without Raging Bolt also make up for it with another Ground weakness, think Glimmora , Kingambit , or: Iron Hands . Doesn't help that the most common Ground resists we have are either your own Landorus , or a Grass-type like Ogerpon-Wellspring , , or .The former two can not take a Sludge Bomb, and the latter can't reliably threaten Landorus . While this sounds like it doesn't matter since the Ogerpon formes can knock it out first or Terastallize, it really shows how difficult it is to switch into Landorus . This allows it to fit on so many teams as a check to opposing Landorus :Ladnorus: and as a threat that breaks apart their team. since our most notable Offensive threats (Flutter Mane , both Urshifu formes , Ogerpon-Hearthflame , Chien-Pao , Gholdengo etc.) have fantastic offensive synergy with Landorus, which is capable of removing their few checks in the format. Just super consistent and splashable threat that definitely separates itself from the other Pokemon within the tier.

Urshifu-R from A -> A+

Similar to Landorus actually, the rise of CM Raging Bolt Bulky Offense skyrocketed Urshifu-R 's usage. Urshifu-R's synergy with the rest of the top tiers (bar Ogerpon-Wellspring and ) allows for this, the ability to remove Flutter Mane , Incineroar , and Landorus makes it an ideal partner to many Pokemon, including Incineroar , Raging Bolt , Chien-Pao , and especially Ogerpon-Hearthflame .Ogerpon appreciates how Urshifu-R threatens them and baits in food. Rillaboom , Amoonguss , and Ogerpon-Wellspring can't freely answer Urshifu-R with how much damage Hearhflame threatens paired with Follow Me protection. While the two seem to struggle against Raging Bolt , it's far from the case when Thunderclap successfully gets redirected. Not as if usage stats are anti Urshifu-R either, , showing a massive resurgence to tie its competition after everyone finished experimenting with Urshifu-S . I do also think how much offensive pressure Choice Scarf brings is far too valuable, usually being able to threaten the opposing side of the field which of course, can't Protect. It also allows it to bs past its so called 'checks', Ogerpon getting U-turned on for 50% is a prime example.

Tornadus from A- -> A

This is incredibly confusing to me, its the Tailwind archetype in one Pokemon. As a support Pokemon, it isn't required to have many good matchups but its hard to deny how excellent Flying STAB currently is. Current meta trends haven't changed that fact and have actually made Tornadus even better, considering how excellent Landorus is in Tailwind and how much Snow struggles after you remove the weather or Taunt Ninetales . One of the premier Urshifu-S partners as the Pokemon adores speed control, and pretty much everything in S all the way down to B+ have seen success in Tailwind, the Pokemon is just incredibly strong everywhere and allows for common offensive cores (think Urshifu-S Gholdengo Landorus and Flutter Mane Chi-Yu Glimmora ) to be twice as threatening.

Entei from B+ -> B / B-

I don't get this Pokemon, Fire-type competition is at an all time high and Farigiraf has messed up its best composition, its a lot more niche than anything else in the tier. It also lacks results to justify it above the tiers below, and its meta matchup only got worse with the significant rise in Raging Bolt and Landorus . Sacred Fire funny move though and Extreme Speed as a utility move rather than offensive tool works fine so I don't think it belongs any lower.

Landorus-T from B -> B+ / A-

Really just my earlier reasoning except far stronger with exploration of Choice Band. as Landorus showed us, Ground is a fantastic STAB, and the few resists either fold to Rock Slide or Tera Blast Flying in Choice Scarf's case. As I've brought up with Tornadus , Flying is an equally scary STAB that synergises well with Landorus-T , big reason Choice Band partners with Tornadus to wreck havoc. Very limited things actually good into it and isn't nearly as outclassed by Incineroar as Harcanine , which even shares the same Fire-typing, making what they check and what they lose to similar to an extent., yet Harcanine 's Rock STAB, Extreme Speed, and speed tier, allow it to find great success.

Porygon2 from B -> B+

Not a lot to say here honestly, really bulky offensive speed control with offensive pressure gets you somewhere. Has seen development on Gouging Fire teams as they are known for being vulnerable to opposing speed control, and I find P2 Gholdengo Bulky Offense teams as incredible right now, Ice Beam handling Landorus well.

Iron Crown from B -> B-

Psyspam has taken a hit but has so Iron Crown in general, Rillaboom , Landorus and Raging Bolt rising in popularity are all horrible meta developments for Iron Crown , and Utrecht goes to show this incredibly well. Out of the teams that got CP, Iron Crown was on less than a third of Indeedee teams, they've just shifted to Trick Room variants which are more consistent.

Iron Hands from B- -> B+

I covered this already and don't get the slander, beautiful meta matchup because you know, the bulkiest Pokemon in the format with Drain Punch muscles past everything, Incineroar not running much speed currently is crucial as it allows for Iron Hands to Drain Punch for half its hp, and unlike the Attack drops, Incineroar can not recover the hp and does not want to be taking so much damage as it pivots around. This means it has a has a good matchup, or can at the very least trade with everything from S to A- bar Landorus , Amoonguss , and Gouging Fire , all for the record can be handled by adding a Landorus forme to your team or combinations of certain Pokemon. Iron Hands also has Fake Out support, which is usually faster than Incineroar 's, fantastic move that can't ever be overlooked. This is not to mention Iron Hands' Clear Amulet set, which OHKOs Flutter Mane, Incineroar, Urshifu-S, and more making for a reliable Trick Room sweeper. Notably worse into Raging Bolt but the 2HKO just tells you that VGC's bulky staples cant withstand its power. Its not like Iron Hands faces a results issue either, usually scoring Top Cut and in Dortmund's case, was just barely out of the Top 12 Day 2 graph. Same with Landorus-T , It isn't outclassed by Incineroar any more than Harcanine and can actually pair with other Fire-types to success.

Baxcalibur from B- -> C+

I don't understand why this Pokemon rose anyway. It's generally outclassed as an Ice-type by Chien-Pao and Articuno on snow, and doesn't have the greatest meta matchup. Out of Every Regional so far, it's gotten a 'stellar' 5 day 2 results, and more than half of them were from the very first two regionals, so it clearly isn't that either. Just not many reasons to use it and it definitely doesn't belong with Archaludon and Torkoal, which are at least staples in their respective archetypes.

Armarouge , Ogerpon , and from C -> C+

Psyspam teams have started to explore Armarouge Cornerstone Sun and it's been working out pretty well. Arguably one of the better Psyspam compositions right now but it's far more legit than Smeargle and Walking Wake , which struggle to get a single result or find a strong team every event.

Whimsicott from C- -> C / C+

Okay it's generally outclassed by Tornadus but it's not that bad, Encore is a very desirable tool and Fairy STAB is appreciated. Quite a few teams actually want what Whimsicott can provide and while it's always been on the lower end of results, these results are consistent, I'm pretty sure it has Day 2d every single event lmao.

Gallade from UR -> B-

This was likely missed but there's not much to argue against it. A flexible psyspam staple that's on a significant amount of Indeedee teams. Psychic Terrain-boosted Psycho Cuts OHKO Flutter Mane and , while the Pokemon that can take on these attacks like Incineroar and Kingambit perish to Sacred Sword. Helps ease up many of Psyspam's matchups with STABs alone, and Wide Guard is just the cherry on top. Wide Guard makes sure that even leads that get around Indeedee 's Follow Me can't actually stop Trick Room, Gallade having access to Trick Room forces mindgames from Turn 1.

 

[fyfyy]

Woah update, reflects most meta changes really well imo, I do think some of these are being exaggerated / understated though. My current thoughts <3

Landorus from A -> A+

I think the reasoning of Raging Bolt 's rise also applies to Landorus. The significant rise in Calm Mind Raging Bolt Bulky Offense, currently one of the best teams right now, so good in fact that it allowed Landorus to triumph Flutter Mane in the day 2 usage stats. Of course this isn't the only team Landorus fits on, and it isn't the only reason I'm proposing a rise. Landorus 's Ground STAB and power is incredible right now, incredibly difficult to switch in on and you'll come to notice that the majority of teams have a noticeable Ground weakness, as a Fire-type + Raging Bolt are on so many teams, the teams without Raging Bolt also make up for it with another Ground weakness, think Glimmora , Kingambit , or: Iron Hands . Doesn't help that the most common Ground resists we have are either your own Landorus , or a Grass-type like Ogerpon-Wellspring , , or .The former two can not take a Sludge Bomb, and the latter can't reliably threaten Landorus . While this sounds like it doesn't matter since the Ogerpon formes can knock it out first or Terastallize, it really shows how difficult it is to switch into Landorus . This allows it to fit on so many teams as a check to opposing Landorus :Ladnorus: and as a threat that breaks apart their team. since our most notable Offensive threats (Flutter Mane , both Urshifu formes , Ogerpon-Hearthflame , Chien-Pao , Gholdengo etc.) have fantastic offensive synergy with Landorus, which is capable of removing their few checks in the format. Just super consistent and splashable threat that definitely separates itself from the other Pokemon within the tier.

Urshifu-R from A -> A+

Similar to Landorus actually, the rise of CM Raging Bolt Bulky Offense skyrocketed Urshifu-R 's usage. Urshifu-R's synergy with the rest of the top tiers (bar Ogerpon-Wellspring and ) allows for this, the ability to remove Flutter Mane , Incineroar , and Landorus makes it an ideal partner to many Pokemon, including Incineroar , Raging Bolt , Chien-Pao , and especially Ogerpon-Hearthflame .Ogerpon appreciates how Urshifu-R threatens them and baits in food. Rillaboom , Amoonguss , and Ogerpon-Wellspring can't freely answer Urshifu-R with how much damage Hearhflame threatens paired with Follow Me protection. While the two seem to struggle against Raging Bolt , it's far from the case when Thunderclap successfully gets redirected. Not as if usage stats are anti Urshifu-R either, , showing a massive resurgence to tie its competition after everyone finished experimenting with Urshifu-S . I do also think how much offensive pressure Choice Scarf brings is far too valuable, usually being able to threaten the opposing side of the field which of course, can't Protect. It also allows it to bs past its so called 'checks', Ogerpon getting U-turned on for 50% is a prime example.

Tornadus from A- -> A

This is incredibly confusing to me, its the Tailwind archetype in one Pokemon. As a support Pokemon, it isn't required to have many good matchups but its hard to deny how excellent Flying STAB currently is. Current meta trends haven't changed that fact and have actually made Tornadus even better, considering how excellent Landorus is in Tailwind and how much Snow struggles after you remove the weather or Taunt Ninetales . One of the premier Urshifu-S partners as the Pokemon adores speed control, and pretty much everything in S all the way down to B+ have seen success in Tailwind, the Pokemon is just incredibly strong everywhere and allows for common offensive cores (think Urshifu-S Gholdengo Landorus and Flutter Mane Chi-Yu Glimmora ) to be twice as threatening.

Entei from B+ -> B / B-

I don't get this Pokemon, Fire-type competition is at an all time high and Farigiraf has messed up its best composition, its a lot more niche than anything else in the tier. It also lacks results to justify it above the tiers below, and its meta matchup only got worse with the significant rise in Raging Bolt and Landorus . Sacred Fire funny move though and Extreme Speed as a utility move rather than offensive tool works fine so I don't think it belongs any lower.

Landorus-T from B -> B+ / A-

Really just my earlier reasoning except far stronger with exploration of Choice Band. as Landorus showed us, Ground is a fantastic STAB, and the few resists either fold to Rock Slide or Tera Blast Flying in Choice Scarf's case. As I've brought up with Tornadus :Tornadus, Flying is an equally scary STAB that synergises well with Landorus-T, a big reason Choice Band partners with Tornadus to wreck havoc. Very limited things actually good into it and isn't nearly as outclassed by Incineroar as Harcanine , which even shares the same Fire-typing, making what they check and what they lose to similar to an extent., yet Harcanine 's Rock STAB, Extreme Speed, and speed tier, allow it to find great success.

Porygon2 from B -> B+

Not a lot to say here honestly, really bulky offensive speed control with offensive pressure gets you somewhere. Has seen development on Gouging Fire teams as they are known for being vulnerable to opposing speed control, and I find P2 Gholdengo Bulky Offense teams as incredible right now, Ice Beam handling Landorus well.

Iron Crown from B -> B-

Psyspam has taken a hit but has so Iron Crown in general, Rillaboom , Landorus and Raging Bolt rising in popularity are all horrible meta developments for Iron Crown , and Utrecht goes to show this incredibly well. Out of the teams that got CP, Iron Crown was on less than a third of Indeedee teams, they've just shifted to Trick Room variants which are more consistent.

Iron Hands from B- -> B+

I covered this already and don't get the slander, beautiful meta matchup because you know, the bulkiest Pokemon in the format with Drain Punch muscles past everything, Incineroar not running much speed currently is crucial as it allows for Iron Hands to Drain Punch for half its hp, and unlike the Attack drops, Incineroar can not recover the hp and does not want to be taking so much damage as it pivots around. This means it has a has a good matchup, or can at the very least trade with everything from S to A- bar Landorus , Amoonguss , and Gouging Fire , all for the record can be handled by adding a Landorus forme to your team or combinations of certain Pokemon. Iron Hands also has Fake Out support, which is usually faster than Incineroar 's, fantastic move that can't ever be overlooked. This is not to mention Iron Hands' Clear Amulet set, which OHKOs Flutter Mane, Incineroar, Urshifu-S, and more making for a reliable Trick Room sweeper. Notably worse into Raging Bolt but the 2HKO just tells you that VGC's bulky staples cant withstand its power. Its not like Iron Hands faces a results issue either, usually scoring Top Cut and in Dortmund's case, was just barely out of the Top 12 Day 2 graph. Same with Landorus-T , It isn't outclassed by Incineroar any more than Harcanine and can actually pair with other Fire-types to success.

Baxcalibur from B- -> C+

I don't understand why this Pokemon rose anyway. It's generally outclassed as an Ice-type by Chien-Pao and Articuno on snow, and doesn't have the greatest meta matchup. Out of Every Regional so far, it's gotten a 'stellar' 5 day 2 results, and more than half of them were from the very first two regionals, so it clearly isn't that either. Just not many reasons to use it and it definitely doesn't belong with Archaludon and Torkoal, which are at least staples in their respective archetypes.

Armarouge , Ogerpon , and from C -> C+

Psyspam teams have started to explore Armarouge Cornerstone Sun and it's been working out pretty well. Arguably one of the better Psyspam compositions right now but it's far more legit than Smeargle and Walking Wake , which struggle to get a single result or find a strong team every event.

Whimsicott from C- -> C / C+

Okay it's generally outclassed by Tornadus but it's not that bad, Encore is a very desirable tool and Fairy STAB is appreciated. Quite a few teams actually want what Whimsicott can provide and while it's always been on the lower end of results, these results are consistent, I'm pretty sure it has Day 2d every single event lmao.

Gallade from UR -> B-

This was likely missed but there's not much to argue against it. A flexible psyspam staple that's on a significant amount of Indeedee teams. Psychic Terrain-boosted Psycho Cuts OHKO Flutter Mane and , while the Pokemon that can take on these attacks like Incineroar and Kingambit perish to Sacred Sword. Helps ease up many of Psyspam's matchups with STABs alone, and Wide Guard is just the cherry on top. Wide Guard makes sure that even leads that get around Indeedee 's Follow Me can't actually stop Trick Room, Gallade having access to Trick Room forces mindgames from Turn 1.

* I pretty much agree to all changes except Landorus-T , it only saw success on one specific team and doesn't have any better reasoning to be used over Landorus-I , sure Intimidate and an answer to Raging Bolt feels enticing, but there are better Pokemon that actually do those roles individually.
Also the fact that the Flying STAB is achieved after Terastalization is really disappointing, and losing most of its damage output after Intimidate, if you are not using Choice Band is a big blow.

* Also this is a bit exaggerated but I find Landorus-I to be a S-Tier Pokemon. With the ability to OHKO Incineroar , do huge damage to Raging Bolt and forcing a Terastalization on Ogerpon-W is insane. It also 2HKOs Flutter Mane which is noteworthy. It is undoubtedly the strongest Balance Breaker, with its ability to 2HKO the whole metagame. When paired with your own Ogerpon-W , forcing Tera on the opposing Ogerpon-W , it can abuse that to great extent.

* Ting Lu in B- is highly controversial, with two teams that featured it to great success, it feels weird that it isn't higher on the list, amazing bulk, great coverage and ground STAB, it is definitely a Pokemon that deserves its spot in the B+ tier.

* Both Articuno and Alola-Ninetales definitely need to be bumped a tier, they were a great call in the current meta, winning the last regional and is definitely a team that can produce better results, it does rely a bit on the surprise factor but a well played Snow Spam team is still really difficult to handle.

* Interesting to see Tatsugiri that high, considering its only used with Dondozo Commander Based Teams, it sees little to no usage being placed in a metagame run over by Raging Bolt and Urshifu-Dark . Solo Dondozo has seen some decent usage with Yawn set and feels relevant enough but Tatsugiri should definitely go down quite a few tiers.

* Quite confused to see Entei that high, overall we have better Fire types and better Assault Vest users in the metagame, the only other items worth considering on it is Choice Band as featured by Michael Kelsch in the previous regional event. Overall, I feel it is outclassed in many ways, by Dragonite as Extreme Speed spammer and by other great Fire types like Incineroar , Ogerpon-Hearthflame , Chi-yu and Arcanine-Hisui .

That's it from my side! (Btw great post LovelyLuna, you covered most of the thoughts I had in mind lol!)

 

[KindaKaon]

These are the official Viability Rankings for VGC 2024 Regulation F. In this thread, we as a community will be ranking each and every usable pokemon into different tiers based on how viable we believe them to be. We encourage you to post your thoughts and opinions on on the various usable Pokemon in VGC and what tier you think they should belong in. Posts in this thread will be taken into consideration when deciding changes to the VR.

The general idea of this is to rank every usable Pokemon in VGC into different rankings that will go in descending order. Since we are evaluating the entirety of the metagame, we will not be splitting Pokemon based on their roles within teams - supportive and offensive Pokemon will be ranked based on their impact that they have on the meta and the teams they will be brought for.

Finally, there will be a Council of experienced players who will discuss and vote on the ranking of each Pokemon. As the Series tend to be fairly short, we will be attempting to keep this up-to-date based on what's going on in the tournament scene and adapting our list based on both tournament results and ladder success as the metagame evolves. Keep in mind, your posts and insights are still very valuable to us and will be a factor in any changes that we make. This thread would be nothing without the community and all of your input, so if you feel you have a good grasp on the metagame and fully understand the forum rules, then don't be hesitant to post.

VGC 2024 Regulation F Viability Rankings

S
Flutter Mane
Incineroar
Ogerpon-Wellspring
Raging Bolt

A+
Urshifu

A
Amoonguss
Chien-Pao
Landorus
Ogerpon-Hearthflame
Rillaboom
Urshifu-Rapid-Strike

A-
Farigiraf
Gholdengo
Gouging Fire
Kingambit
Tornadus

B+
Arcanine-Hisui
Chi-Yu
Dondozo
Dragonite
Entei
Glimmora
Indeedee-F
Ursaluna-Bloodmoon

B
Iron Crown
Landorus-Therian
Porygon2
Roaring Moon
Tatsugiri
Volcarona

B-
Archaludon
Baxcalibur
Iron Hands
Ninetales-Alola
Ting-Lu
Torkoal
Ursaluna


C+
Articuno
Cresselia
Hatterene
Heatran
Iron Bundle
Pelipper
Regidrago
Registeel

C
Armarouge
Kommo-o
Latias
Metagross
Ogerpon
Ogerpon-Cornerstone
Primarina
Scream Tail
Smeargle
Walking Wake

C-
Clefairy
Dragapult
Grimmsnarl
Lilligant-Hisui
Magmar
Okidogi
Suicune
Whimsicott

amoonguss to A+. silly pokemon. useful on most forms of balance, imo clearly better supportive grass type than rilla right now, especially since it feels like every special attacker in the format that can kill rilla will calc to do so through AV without fail so its lost some switching value in that regard. raging bolt having AV as the consensus best set rn is also so helpful for shroomgang its not even funny how often you can bring this guy since it feels like it bulks 7/8 of the format and with a mon like specs flutt, tera electric bolt, darkfu other balance staples etc etc next to it rage powder + attack spam can feel unbeatable (worse when you consider the synergy with waterpon incin stuff). i think this pokemon is unbelievably stupid and i will never doubt the ability it has to whip nae nae and spore an entire format when it gets going. even worse is the fact that sludge bomb unironically 2hkos ogerpon without tera so your balance mirrors are even freer. perhaps i judged torn too harshly. i reiterate: silly pokemon

 

[fyfyy]

amoonguss to A+. silly pokemon. useful on most forms of balance, imo clearly better supportive grass type than rilla right now, especially since it feels like every special attacker in the format that can kill rilla will calc to do so through AV without fail so its lost some switching value in that regard. raging bolt having AV as the consensus best set rn is also so helpful for shroomgang its not even funny how often you can bring this guy since it feels like it bulks 7/8 of the format and with a mon like specs flutt, tera electric bolt, darkfu other balance staples etc etc next to it rage powder + attack spam can feel unbeatable (worse when you consider the synergy with waterpon incin stuff). i think this pokemon is unbelievably stupid and i will never doubt the ability it has to whip nae nae and spore an entire format when it gets going. even worse is the fact that sludge bomb unironically 2hkos ogerpon without tera so your balance mirrors are even freer. perhaps i judged torn too harshly. i reiterate: silly pokemon

Amoonguss feels like a Pokemon that has both the Item Syndrome and Four Moves Syndrome. With the high usage of Support Flutter Mane which carries Taunt, it can be forced easily to switch out from a dominant position. A great point you raised was how Amoonguss 2HKOs Ogerpon-W . However, if you run Sludge Bomb it definitely struggles to keep its teammates healthy is a big positive trait for amoonguss . If it opts for Pollen Puff, it gets redirected by Ogerpon-W , which is again not an ideal scenario for Amoonguss . It also wants to run items like Sitrus Berry and Rocky Helmet, with the rise of Urshifu-R , it struggles to force the chip if it opts for Sitrus Berry and loses on the necessary bulk to handle the rest of meta if its opts for Rocky Helmet. Also on team compositions like Ogerpon-W and Incineroar , you are better running Ogerpon-W itself, as it can step on the gas and KO stuff with Ivy Cudgel and act as a redirector when the situation is required, something which Amoonguss can't do due to its low offensive presence.

 

[Jesuuuus]

Ok so here are my thoughts:
Landorus A -> A+
Ok so I pretty much agree with what Luna said here, has become one of the best Pokemon. It's ability to blow up Rillaboom Incineroar balance cores is amazing. Landorus' matchup into these archetypes improves when paired with Tornadus Tailwind support as threatening to OHKO Choice Scarf Urshifu-R (a common member of these archetypes), which would ordinarily be one of it's best checks is great. Ground and Poison coverage makes pivoting around Landorus incredibly difficult, and ironically one of the best ways to pivot around it is with your own Landorus , which adds to it's usage further. One of Landorus' best checks is Ogerpon-Wellspring , but only if it runs at least 170 Speed, or burns it's Tera, as otherwise Landorus can threaten an OHKO with Sludge Bomb.

Amoonguss A -> A-
Amoonguss is not in a great space currently. Spore immunities such as Rillaboom , Ogerpon-Wellspring and Safety Goggles Incineroar are everywhere at the moment, and their strong ability to pivot makes finding room for Amoonguss disrupt much more difficult. Amoonguss is not helped by the fact many archetypes which commonly do not have the above Pokemon have lots of ways to threaten Amoonguss , such as Articuno Blizzard spam, Expanding Force or Torkoal's Eruption on hard Trick Room Teams, Gouging Fire's Heat Crash. Other methods include Landorus' Substitute or Speed Booster Energy Flutter Mane's Taunt.

Ursaluna-Bloodmoon: B+ -> A-
Ursaluna-Bloodmoon has proven itself to be a real meta threat that trainers respect in teambuilding. Ursaluna-Bloodmoon uses a Life Orb, and mainly features on Trick Room teams with Farigiraf , due to it's low Speed ability to output huge spread damage with Hyper Voice, or threaten OHKOs with Blood Moon. Mind's Eye's allowing it to hit Ghost types means only Steel- and Rock-Types resist Ursaluna-Bloodmoon's Normal STAB, however both of which are hit for supereffective by Ursaluna-Bloodmoon's STAB Earth Power. Tera Normal works especially well as Normal is a great defensive type with only one weakness, but also works offensively by powering up Ursaluna-Bloodmoon's Normal STAB. Ursaluna-Bloodmoon can also be used on Tailroom teams if it is given Speed investment, which adds to the difficulty of taking this Pokemon down, as not using the correct speed control vs Ursaluna-Bloodmoon can be fatal.

 

[KindaKaon]

Amoonguss feels like a Pokemon that has both the Item Syndrome and Four Moves Syndrome. With the high usage of Support Flutter Mane which carries Taunt, it can be forced easily to switch out from a dominant position. A great point you raised was how Amoonguss 2HKOs Ogerpon-W . However, if you run Sludge Bomb it definitely struggles to keep its teammates healthy is a big positive trait for amoonguss . If it opts for Pollen Puff, it gets redirected by Ogerpon-W , which is again not an ideal scenario for Amoonguss . It also wants to run items like Sitrus Berry and Rocky Helmet, with the rise of Urshifu-R , it struggles to force the chip if it opts for Sitrus Berry and loses on the necessary bulk to handle the rest of meta if its opts for Rocky Helmet. Also on team compositions like Ogerpon-W and Incineroar , you are better running Ogerpon-W itself, as it can step on the gas and KO stuff with Ivy Cudgel and act as a redirector when the situation is required, something which Amoonguss can't do due to its low offensive presence.

i dont really see this. taunt mons are obviously bad for amoonguss, but it has so much inherent pressure on those mons that (especially if theyre not goggles or a grass type like taunt rilla) it can often feel like a check rather than counter because you might just get spored on switch. the pollen puff redirect thing is annoying but lowkey dont even underrate the redirect damage pollen puff + strong neutral hit, itll ko most pons and tbh the whole maintaining health thing has never been super super important for moong this reg except in bulky mirrors where sludge bomb extra damage usually helps more given you can use it to pretty easily break waterpon and fish for things like poison on the switch with common goggles mons like incin (non-berry incin does NOT like taking that chip). i agree waterpon is usually better too, but its not either or, amoonguss + waterpon + incin creates a bulky fwg balance core which feels impossible to break sometimes and i personally feel ashamed when i beat someone with it. item syndrome has never really occured to me, i think most teams will pretty easily find either another rocky helm candidate or another bulky mon to take advantage of sitrus to make up for the moong using smth else. im not saying amoong to S because it doesnt run the format but i think A+ is reasonable for a cheater pokemon that will worst case 50/50s most of its counters due to spore spam and will solo balance mirrors on the fact that most bulky teams use incin as pretty much their only major form of damage into amoong

 

[LovelyLuna]

* I pretty much agree to all changes except Landorus-T , it only saw success on one specific team and doesn't have any better reasoning to be used over Landorus-I , sure Intimidate and an answer to Raging Bolt feels enticing, but there are better Pokemon that actually do those roles individually.
Also the fact that the Flying STAB is achieved after Terastalization is really disappointing, and the losing most of its damage output after Intimidate, if you are not using Choice Band is a big blow.

Honestly, I think Landorus-T is better than Landorus in a vacuum. Intimidate is a fantastic ability, especially when paired with a pivoting move. Tera Blast Flying is one of the scariest moves right now and while yes, having to Terastallize is less than ideal, it could do the same thing perfectly fine in Reg D and E, regulations where Heatran was one of its best partners, and I'm sure you remember how often that loved to Tera, yet there weren't any problems with Tera Blast Landorus-T . Why can't it do that now?

Yes, because Incineroar is the better Intimidator, Landorus is currently the better forme, but I'm sure you can see where I'm getting at, if you're using another Fire-type like Gouging Fire , Landorus-T looks like a real choice. Sometimes it's also a great choice over Incineroar , filling in the role of an Intimidator and Ground-type. Even if you disagree, you had Landorus-T at B last shifts, if a new good team with a new set was built using it, a rise even if is very realistic.

I've seen disappointment in Landorus-T' s damage output but its really not far from half of the meta threats. If you keep comparing it to Landorus or Choice Specs Flutter Mane sure it's lackluster, Landorus-T makes up for it with utility and meta matchup instead.

mew

196+ Atk Landorus-Therian Stomping Tantrum vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 75-88 (42.8 - 50.2%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO
52+ SpA Gholdengo Make It Rain vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 75-88 (42.8 - 50.2%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO
108+ SpA Raging Bolt Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 81-96 (46.2 - 54.8%) -- 58.6% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Kingambit Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 78-93 (44.5 - 53.1%) -- 27% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Mold Breaker Ogerpon-Hearthflame Horn Leech (1.2x Mask Boost) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 73-87 (41.7 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Now Imagine Tera Flying or Choice Band added to the mix

Amoonguss A -> A-
Amoonguss is not in a great space currently. Spore immunities such as Rillaboom , Ogerpon-Wellspring and Safety Goggles Incineroar are everywhere at the moment, and their strong ability to pivot makes finding room for Amoonguss disrupt much more difficult. Amoonguss is not helped by the fact many archetypes which commonly do not have the above Pokemon have lots of ways to threaten Amoonguss , such as Articuno Blizzard spam, Expanding Force or Torkoal's Eruption on hard Trick Room Teams, Gouging Fire's Heat Crash. Other methods include Landorus' Substitute or Speed Booster Energy Flutter Mane's Taunt.

Strongly disagree with this nomination, Spore immunities are everywhere in every regulation, because if you don't have at least two, you're pretty much skrewed. Despite this, Amoonguss has continued to top events and the usage stats, this is because it can be seen as a game of rock paper scissors. Your Spore immunities do not want to deal with Knock Off Incineroar , and the Water-types you use to threaten it are no good against Amoonguss . Articuno Snow and Trick Room teams are arguably weak to Amoonguss as while you need to Tera, it allows you to get off the Spores you need to win the game. Gouging Fire teams notoriously suck vs Amoonguss because it'll be running Incineroar . Fake Out Spore is unavoidable for the Gouging Fire , and Chien-Pao will usually be their only way to hit Amoonguss . You might notice a pattern though, Incineroar takes care of Chien-Pao incredibly well. I don't deny that there's a lot of Amoonguss counterplay, but there has always been, Amoonguss just bullshits through it. Substitute and Taunt are iffy as checks and primarily used for other utility, as you probably have 5 Pokemon that can break a Substitute, and many that can threaten Flutter Mane minimizing the threat of Taunt. Sometimes Amoonguss does its job on preview, when pressured to bring in your Spore immunities, Amoonguss can just not be brought and suddenly you're at a disadvantage.

As for Ursaluna-B , I disagree but not as strongly, Farigiraf is just a lot more flexible and almost half of Farigiraf teams don't go for Bloodmoon Trick Room. Wouldn't say it belongs in the same tier if Farigiraf is almost mandatory but Ursaluna isn't in the slightest.

Also forgot to mention but

Corviknight from UR -> C

Corviknight is best known for its typing, being the perfect Landorus counter, which is incredibly valuable by itself considering how many teams are weak to the buff man. But that's not all it can do, It's one of our few Fairy resists and has access to the praised Flying STAB that can OHKO most Ogerpon-Wellspring if you invest. Intimidate immunity is always appreciated and not being effected by Parting Shot does wonders. Seems like it has a niche worth exploring further.

 

[KindaKaon]

Honestly, I think Landorus-T is better than Landorus in a vacuum. Intimidate is a fantastic ability, especially when paired with a pivoting move. Tera Blast Flying is one of the scariest moves right now and while yes, having to Terastallize is less than ideal, it could do the same thing perfectly fine in Reg D and E, regulations where Heatran was one of its best partners, and I'm sure you remember how often that loved to Tera, yet there weren't any problems with Tera Blast Landorus-T . Why can't it do that now?

Yes, because Incineroar is the better Intimidator, Landorus is currently the better forme, but I'm sure you can see where I'm getting at, if you're using another Fire-type like Gouging Fire , Landorus-T looks like a real choice. Sometimes it's also a great choice over Incineroar , filling in the role of an Intimidator and Ground-type. Even if you disagree, you had Landorus-T at B last shifts, if a new good team with a new set was built using it, a rise even if is very realistic.

I've seen disappointment in Landorus-T' s damage output but its really not far from half of the meta threats. If you keep comparing it to Landorus or Choice Specs Flutter Mane sure it's lackluster, Landorus-T makes up for it with utility and meta matchup instead.

mew

196+ Atk Landorus-Therian Stomping Tantrum vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 75-88 (42.8 - 50.2%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO
52+ SpA Gholdengo Make It Rain vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 75-88 (42.8 - 50.2%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO
108+ SpA Raging Bolt Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 81-96 (46.2 - 54.8%) -- 58.6% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Kingambit Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 78-93 (44.5 - 53.1%) -- 27% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Mold Breaker Ogerpon-Hearthflame Horn Leech (1.2x Mask Boost) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 73-87 (41.7 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Now Imagine Tera Flying or Choice Band added to the mix

Strongly disagree with this nomination, Spore immunities are everywhere in every regulation, because if you don't have at least two, you're pretty much skrewed. Despite this, Amoonguss has continued to top events and the usage stats, this is because it can be seen as a game of rock paper scissors. Your Spore immunities do not want to deal with Knock Off Incineroar , and the Water-types you use to threaten it are no good against Amoonguss . Articuno Snow and Trick Room teams are arguably weak to Amoonguss as while you need to Tera, it allows you to get off the Spores you need to win the game. Gouging Fire teams notoriously suck vs Amoonguss because it'll be running Incineroar . Fake Out Spore is unavoidable for the Gouging Fire , and Chien-Pao will usually be their only way to hit Amoonguss . You might notice a pattern though, Incineroar takes care of Chien-Pao incredibly well. I don't deny that there's a lot of Amoonguss counterplay, but there has always been, Amoonguss just bullshits through it. Substitute and Taunt are iffy as checks and primarily used for other utility, as you probably have 5 Pokemon that can break a Substitute, and many that can threaten Flutter Mane minimizing the threat of Taunt. Sometimes Amoonguss does its job on preview, when pressured to bring in your Spore immunities, Amoonguss can just not be brought and suddenly you're at a disadvantage.

As for Ursaluna-B , I disagree but not as strongly, Farigiraf is just a lot more flexible and almost half of Farigiraf teams don't go for Bloodmoon Trick Room. Wouldn't say it belongs in the same tier if Farigiraf is almost mandatory but Ursaluna isn't in the slightest.

Also forgot to mention but

Corviknight from UR -> C

Corviknight is best known for its typing, being the perfect Landorus counter, which is incredibly valuable by itself considering how many teams are weak to the buff man. But that's not all it can do, It's one of our few Fairy resists and has access to the praised Flying STAB that can OHKO most Ogerpon-Wellspring if you invest. Intimidate immunity is always appreciated and not being effected by Parting Shot does wonders. Seems like it has a niche worth exploring further.

double the nom for a lando t move. also perhaps double for a lando I move? lando I is borderline better than flutt on balance right now, because bolt is just that popular. personally, i think not being fake out immune is lame and reduces synergy a lot, but its undeniably gotten more popular for a reason and its proven itself to be probably the best breaker in the game as of rn, ground stab is insane and with sludge bomb you deal so much damage to the entire meta its impossible for most neutral mons to switch in. anything weak to you can just give up and try again another day. up the lando forms

 

[fyfyy]

Honestly, I think Landorus-T is better than Landorus in a vacuum. Intimidate is a fantastic ability, especially when paired with a pivoting move. Tera Blast Flying is one of the scariest moves right now and while yes, having to Terastallize is less than ideal, it could do the same thing perfectly fine in Reg D and E, regulations where Heatran was one of its best partners, and I'm sure you remember how often that loved to Tera, yet there weren't any problems with Tera Blast Landorus-T . Why can't it do that now?

Yes, because Incineroar is the better Intimidator, Landorus is currently the better forme, but I'm sure you can see where I'm getting at, if you're using another Fire-type like Gouging Fire , Landorus-T looks like a real choice. Sometimes it's also a great choice over Incineroar , filling in the role of an Intimidator and Ground-type. Even if you disagree, you had Landorus-T at B last shifts, if a new good team with a new set was built using it, a rise even if is very realistic.

I've seen disappointment in Landorus-T' s damage output but its really not far from half of the meta threats. If you keep comparing it to Landorus or Choice Specs Flutter Mane sure it's lackluster, Landorus-T makes up for it with utility and meta matchup instead.

mew

196+ Atk Landorus-Therian Stomping Tantrum vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 75-88 (42.8 - 50.2%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO
52+ SpA Gholdengo Make It Rain vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 75-88 (42.8 - 50.2%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO
108+ SpA Raging Bolt Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 81-96 (46.2 - 54.8%) -- 58.6% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Kingambit Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 78-93 (44.5 - 53.1%) -- 27% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Mold Breaker Ogerpon-Hearthflame Horn Leech (1.2x Mask Boost) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 73-87 (41.7 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Now Imagine Tera Flying or Choice Band added to the mix

I highly disagree with this take that Landorus-T is better than Landorus-I . First of all the premier choices for item on Landorus-T right now is Choice Scarf and Choice Band, which makes it struggle into Fake Out into Super Effective Moves. Even if you play into a hard switch in, it still takes huge amounts of damage. Secondly, Flying has a great matchup into the meta, but it definitely loses to Raging Bolt after that which can take its hits easily and clear it off with Thunderbolt. Its speed stat is in a really weird place, and it is out sped by most of the meta. Also the fact that Icy Wind Flutter Mane is so dominant and pairing with the fact that its Ground STAB is really lackluster, its inability to Protect due to its item choice and unable to pick KOs after a single Intimidate feels underwhelming. Landorus-I is unaffected by Intimidate, 2HKOs the whole meta and can't slowed down unless we use Snarl or Parting Shot, and combined with the fact that Poison hits all the things that Flying wants to hit, which is majorly the good number of Grass types in meta makes Landorus-I the better suited Pokemon in the metagame. Not many prominant Bug Types and Fighting Types in Urshifu formes which Landorus-I has a better matchup than Landorus-T as both Urshifu formes are unaffected by Intimidate, faster than Landorus -T and can 2HKO it before it does any significant damage due to their good physical bulk is clearly visible. Landorus-T wants to have a strong Ground STAB, the ability to Protect and not be affected by Intimidate and wants the Howl Boost from Gouging Fire at the same time, which needs setup like Tailwind to compensate for its mediocre-speed, Clear Amulet to to not be affected by Intimidate Spam and Gouging Fire all in one core. The only reason Justin Tang's Landorus-T team worked was due to the fact that Choice Band nullified the Intimidate drop, paired that with a strong STAB in Earthquake and Tailwind from Tornadus , that was certainly one of the best ways they could make Landorus-T work. Also Gouging Fire likes to pair up with Pokemon like Kingambit , which as we all know has the great ability Defiant, which allows it to increase its damage output to unimaginable extent. Paired with the fact that it can make up for its lackluster speed in Priority like Sucker Punch. You'd either wants Pokemon that are really fast and don't get affected by Intimidate or have strong moves to make up for it, or you want slow Pokemon that can stay on the field long enough to properly utilize the Howl Boost like Ting-Lu . Meanwhile Landorus-I doesn't need that amount of set up and can go to tear the meta easily. Great Ground STAB, amazing damage output makes it a top Pokemon that breaks Balance Cores and pressures huge damage.

 

[LovelyLuna]

I highly disagree with this take that Landorus-T is better than Landorus-I . First of all the premier choices for item on Landorus-T right now is Choice Scarf and Choice Band, which makes it struggle into Fake Out into Super Effective Moves. Even if you play into a hard switch in, it still takes huge amounts of damage. Secondly, Flying has a great matchup into the meta, but it definitely loses to Raging Bolt after that which can take its hits easily and clear it off with Thunderbolt. Its speed stat is in a really weird place, and it is out sped by most of the meta. Also the fact that Icy Wind Flutter Mane is so dominant and pairing with the fact that its Ground STAB is really lackluster, its inability to Protect due to its item choice and unable to pick KOs after a single Intimidate feels underwhelming. Landorus-I is unaffected by Intimidate, 2HKOs the whole meta and can't slowed down unless we use Snarl or Parting Shot, and combined with the fact that Poison hits all the things that Flying wants to hit, which is majorly the good number of Grass types in meta makes Landorus-I the better suited Pokemon in the metagame. Not many prominant Bug Types and Fighting Types in Urshifu formes which Landorus-I has a better matchup than Landorus-T as both Urshifu formes are unaffected by Intimidate, faster than Landorus -T and can 2HKO it before it does any significant damage due to their good physical bulk is clearly visible. Landorus-T wants to have a strong Ground STAB, the ability to Protect and not be affected by Intimidate and wants the Howl Boost from Gouging Fire at the same time, which needs setup like Tailwind to compensate for its mediocre-speed, Clear Amulet to to not be affected by Intimidate Spam and Gouging Fire all in one core. The only reason Justin Tang's Landorus-T team worked was due to the fact that Choice Band nullified the Intimidate drop, paired that with a strong STAB in Earthquake and Tailwind from Tornadus , that was certainly one of the best ways they could make Landorus-T work. Also Gouging Fire likes to pair up with Pokemon like Kingambit , which as we all know has the great ability Defiant, which allows it to increase its damage output to unimaginable extent. Paired with the fact that it can make up for its lackluster speed in Priority like Sucker Punch. You'd either wants Pokemon that are really fast and don't get affected by Intimidate or have strong moves to make up for it, or you want slow Pokemon that can stay on the field long enough to properly utilize the Howl Boost like Ting-Lu . Meanwhile Landorus-I doesn't need that amount of set up and can go to tear the meta easily. Great Ground STAB, amazing damage output makes it a top Pokemon that breaks Balance Cores and pressures huge damage.

There's hardly anything to say here, offensively? Yes, Landorus is the better Pokemon, but, it has 0 utility. The ability to play an Intimidate pivot is incredibly valuable and gives Landorus-T a defensive tool while still keeping the insane Ground type offense. A question you ignored just applies 10fold now, why can Landorus-T run unafraid of Fake Out and Icy Wind Flutter Mane in the earlier regulations but we open F and it's suddenly a problem that makes it a bad Pokemon? The Speed stat would be an issue if it didn't run Choice Scarf or be paired with Tornadus, has the same speed issues as the Urshifu formes but you don't see that bringing them down so much. We've already experienced how valuable an Intimidate pivot is when Landorus-T was consistently Top 3 for the first half of regulation E, then fell to a very respectable Top 5 position, This was the regulation with Urshifu-R as the much more popular forme for the record, and a regulation where Landorus-T would pair with Tera hogs, a regulation where the top Intimidator was immune to its Ground-STAB, but it can still thrive. Intimidate is the single best widely distributed ability in the game and it only gets better when you add on U-turn, Landorus doing more damage isn't enough to justify it as the better Pokemon.

I'm going to clarify again, Landorus-T is worse than Incineroar who hogs teamslots, which is why I'm arguing it for a lower standard than Landorus even though I think it's the better Pokemon.

 

[fyfyy]

There's hardly anything to say here, offensively? Yes, Landorus is the better Pokemon, but, it has 0 utility. The ability to play an Intimidate pivot is incredibly valuable and gives Landorus-T a defensive tool while still keeping the insane Ground type offense. A question you ignored just applies 10fold now, why can Landorus-T run unafraid of Fake Out and Icy Wind Flutter Mane in the earlier regulations but we open F and it's suddenly a problem that makes it a bad Pokemon? The Speed stat would be an issue if it didn't run Choice Scarf or be paired with Tornadus, has the same speed issues as the Urshifu formes but you don't see that bringing them down so much. We've already experienced how valuable an Intimidate pivot is when Landorus-T was consistently Top 3 for the first half of regulation E, then fell to a very respectable Top 5 position, This was the regulation with Urshifu-R as the much more popular forme for the record, and a regulation where Landorus-T would pair with Tera hogs, a regulation where the top Intimidator was immune to its Ground-STAB, but it can still thrive. Intimidate is the single best widely distributed ability in the game and it only gets better when you add on U-turn, Landorus doing more damage isn't enough to justify it as the better Pokemon.

I'm going to clarify again, Landorus-T is worse than Incineroar who hogs teamslots, which is why I'm arguing it for a lower standard than Landorus even though I think it's the better Pokemon.

The Icy Wind Flutter Mane Set, especially the Speed Booster Variant rose in popularity majorly in Regulation F. The fact that Landorus-T has utility can't be ignored, but there are better Pokemon that are providing the same utility, if not better in Incineroar . Another thing to keep in mind while comparing Landorus-T with Urshifu formes is the fact that they are can't be shut down by Intimidate. Not only that, their STAB moves are absolutely insane and the fact they can bypass Protect completely moves them to a completely different league than Landorus-T . The fact that there are better Choice Scarf mons with high damage output, even getting access to the coveted move U-Turn (referring to Urshifu formes) and better Intimidate Pokemon in Incineroar makes it not worth using. Also, both Urshifu formes can run other alternate items in Focus Sash, Mystic Water/Black Glasses and the aforementioned Choice Scarf. This allows them to utilize Protect, something which Landorus-T can't. Landorus-T lacks a strong Ground STAB, strong Flying STAB unless it terastalizes, the only thing I have seen it do is spamming U-Turn and Rock Slide, which again can be done if not better by Urshifu-R (it also gets Rock Slide lol!).

Again the fact that there are better Intimidate Pokemon, better Choice Scarf Pokemon, Pokemon that get pivoting with U-Turn, strong STAB moves, insane damage output, its pretty self explanatory why Landorus-T doesn't see any play. Its a good Pokemon, that fact can't be denied, but there are better Pokemon in the meta that simply outclass it, making it not worth considering.

A little secret to anyone out there, if anyone wants to use a Pokemon that isn't weak to Intimidate thanks to Defiant, can utilize Choice Scarf, has great Flying STAB and awesome coverage, use a funny orange birb, Zapdos-Galar .

 

[LovelyLuna]

The Icy Wind Flutter Mane Set, especially the Speed Booster Variant rose in popularity majorly in Regulation F. The fact that Landorus-T has utility can't be ignored, but there are better Pokemon that are providing the same utility, if not better in Incineroar . Another thing to keep in mind while comparing Landorus-T with Urshifu formes is the fact that they are can't be shut down by Intimidate. Not only that, their STAB moves are absolutely insane and the fact they can bypass Protect completely moves them to a completely different league than Landorus-T .

The set only rose slightly and that slight rise isn't enough to make Landorus the better Pokemon, especially considering the edge it has is just Protect. You say Landorus-T 's utility can't be ignored but it's hard to understand, every single example you bring up is purely offensive. Yes the Urshifu formes don't care about Intimidate and have insane STABs, they are indeed better offensively, but have minimal utility. Not going to say any further because I think the Urshifu formes are better, I was just saying that they are also forced to run Choice Scarf or be paired with heavy speed control like Tornadus.

The fact that there are better Choice Scarf mons with high damage output, even getting access to the coveted move U-Turn (referring to Urshifu formes) and better Intimidate Pokemon in Incineroar makes it not worth using. Also, both Urshifu formes can run other alternate items in Focus Sash, Mystic Water/Black Glasses and the aforementioned Choice Scarf. This allows them to utilize Protect, something which Landorus-T can't. Landorus-T lacks a strong Ground STAB, strong Flying STAB unless it terastalizes, the only thing I have seen it do is spamming U-Turn and Rock Slide, which again can be done if not better by Urshifu-R (it also gets Rock Slide lol!).

Again the fact that there are better Intimidate Pokemon, better Choice Scarf Pokemon, Pokemon that get pivoting with U-Turn, strong STAB moves, insane damage output, its pretty self explanatory why Landorus-T doesn't see any play. Its a good Pokemon, that fact can't be denied, but there are better Pokemon in the meta that simply outclass it, making it not worth considering.

This is just not true. There are better Intimidators and Rock-types than Harcanine , but oh it in B+ is fine? Landorus-T differs itself so much more from Incineroar yet it's not worth using. There are so many examples that go in so much closer than Landorus-T is to Incineroar . Urshifu-R can't actually be compared either, as they check and are checked by very different things. Even if I go along with your claim of Landorus-T being outclassed completely, what if you're running a different Fire-type? Are you going to use Incineroar :Incineorar: with Gouging Fire or Chi-Yu ? There's a good chance you slot in Ogerpon-W on the team too so it isn't like Urshifu-R is taking its place either. If you understand its a good Pokemon, and that you don't need Incineroar or Urshifu-R on every team, you should be able to see Landorus-T 's use.

I also feel like we're acting like Landorus-T just can't use Protect, it can do that just fine, its just that it doesn't need it and a 4th move is usually worth it. I hate looking at this as a downside. Landorus-T functioned just fine with these STAB moves, which were again, in a meta where the Intimidator could switch in on Landorus-T and a meta where Landorus-T partnered with bigger Tera hogs. Why is it so difficult to understand it can do the same thing this regulation on teams without Incineroar ? If I'm not already using an Intimidator I'd personally rather Landorus-T over its Incarnate forme and that's what I've been trying to get across.

tbh I think Gapdos is outclassed by Urshifu over a hundred times more than Landorus-T is. Also sorry fi I came off as rude, didn't mean to.

 

[fyfyy]

The set only rose slightly and that slight rise isn't enough to make Landorus the better Pokemon, especially considering the edge it has is just Protect. You say Landorus-T 's utility can't be ignored but it's hard to understand, every single example you bring up is purely offensive. Yes the Urshifu formes don't care about Intimidate and have insane STABs, they are indeed better offensively, but have minimal utility. Not going to say any further because I think the Urshifu formes are better, I was just saying that they are also forced to run Choice Scarf or be paired with heavy speed control like Tornadus.


This is just not true. There are better Intimidators and Rock-types than Harcanine , but oh it in B+ is fine? Landorus-T differs itself so much more from Incineroar yet it's not worth using. There are so many examples that go in so much closer than Landorus-T is to Incineroar . Urshifu-R can't actually be compared either, as they check and are checked by very different things. Even if I go along with your claim of Landorus-T being outclassed completely, what if you're running a different Fire-type? Are you going to use Incineroar :Incineorar: with Gouging Fire or Chi-Yu ? There's a good chance you slot in Ogerpon-W on the team too so it isn't like Urshifu-R is taking its place either. If you understand its a good Pokemon, and that you don't need Incineroar or Urshifu-R on every team, you should be able to see Landorus-T 's use.

I also feel like we're acting like Landorus-T just can't use Protect, it can do that just fine, its just that it doesn't need it and a 4th move is usually worth it. I hate looking at this as a downside. Landorus-T functioned just fine with these STAB moves, which were again, in a meta where the Intimidator could switch in on Landorus-T and a meta where Landorus-T partnered with bigger Tera hogs. Why is it so difficult to understand it can do the same thing this regulation on teams without Incineroar ? If I'm not already using an Intimidator I'd personally rather Landorus-T over its Incarnate forme and that's what I've been trying to get across.

tbh I think Gapdos is outclassed by Urshifu over a hundred times more than Landorus-T is. Also sorry fi I came off as rude, didn't mean to.

I feel that Intimidate as an ability isn't compulsory while teambuilding in particular. And if you plan to using Intimidate, you would always consider using Incineroar . Secondly, if you are not using Incineroar , which is pretty understandable, you consider other fire types like Gouging Fire , Chi-Yu and Hisui-Arcanine . Wait a second, Gouging Fire gets Breaking Swipe, Chi-Yu gets Snarl and Hisui-Arcanine gets Intimidate, which lower damage on their own. Hisui-Arcanine is in B+ due to fact it gets Intimidate and hits insanely hard, combined with Strong STABs in Flare Blitz, Rock Slide and Head Smash and amazing priority in Extreme Speed. The fact that Landorus-T has good coverage is completely true, but look at its STAB moves, Stomping Tantrum as your main ground coverage, a 75 BP move that isn't KOing stuff like Gholdengo and Kingambit , even after being a Super Effective move coming from a 145 Base Attack, that's kinda disappointing.

Hisui-Arcanine has 30 Base Attack lower than Landorus-T , but its role compression in being an Intimidate user and hitting extremely hard makes it relevant in the meta. There was a reason that it won 6/7 Regulation-E tournaments and has still shown consistent results in Regulation-F.
Landorus-T functioned fine in Regulation-E due to the fact that people hadn't discovered how insane Landorus-I was, once it was clear as day how amazing Landorus-I was, people haven't stopped using it.

Another thing to notice is that fact there there aren't bigger Tera Hogs than Landorus-T , it needs to Tera to get a good STAB move!
The general trend we have noticed in this Regulation is that if people want to use Intimidate, they use either Incineroar or Hisui-Arcanine . If not, they completely ditch the idea of using Intimidate and prefer using Strong Ground STAB from Landorus-I and better Choice Scarf Mons in Urshifu formes. If Choice Scarf is used on a better Pokemon, Ground STAB is covered by arguably better Pokemon, Intimidate is covered by better Pokemon, why would any use Landorus-T . Not just me, but arguably really good players haven't considered using it, because there is no merit to use it. The only good team that came out with Landorus-T was the Justin Tang Core, which had a good showing for a decent time but that's it for Landorus-T .

'L'andorus-T

252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 121-142 (69.1 - 81.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Landorus-Therian Stomping Tantrum vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 99-118 (56.5 - 67.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Even with better suited nature, and giving it Life Orb (which it isn't running anyways), we can see the difference is so evident.

44 Atk Incineroar Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 81-96 (46.2 - 54.8%) -- 58.6% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Landorus-Therian Stomping Tantrum vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 76-91 (43.4 - 52%) -- 14.1% chance to 2HKO
Even the fact that Incineroar is doing more damage while providing better utility, more bulk and insane positioning aspect, we can see how lackluster the damage is. There isn't much comparison left to do, no utility and no attack can actually compensate the weak BP move Landorus-T gets.

252+ Atk Landorus-Therian Stomping Tantrum vs. 236 HP / 44 Def Gholdengo: 152-180 (79.1 - 93.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Also this is really disappointing, I can't look beyond this calc, proving how mediocre Landorus-T is.

 

[LovelyLuna]

I feel that Intimidate as an ability isn't compulsory while teambuilding in particular. And if you plan to using Intimidate, you would always consider using Incineroar . Secondly, if you are not using Incineroar , which is pretty understandable, you consider other fire types like Gouging Fire , Chi-Yu and Hisui-Arcanine . Wait a second, Gouging Fire gets Breaking Swipe, Chi-Yu gets Snarl and Hisui-Arcanine gets Intimidate, which lower damage on their own. Hisui-Arcanine is in B+ due to fact it gets Intimidate and hits insanely hard, combined with Strong STABs in Flare Blitz, Rock Slide and Head Smash and amazing priority in Extreme Speed. The fact that Landorus-T has good coverage is completely true, but look at its STAB moves, Stomping Tantrum as your main ground coverage, a 75 BP move that isn't KOing stuff like Gholdengo and Kingambit , even after being a Super Effective move coming from a 145 Base Attack, that's kinda disappointing.

Hisui-Arcanine has 30 Base Attack lower than Landorus-T , but its role compression in being an Intimidate user and hitting extremely hard makes it relevant in the meta. There was a reason that it won 6/7 Regulation-E tournaments and has still shown consistent results in Regulation-F.

Sure they have their own damage mitigation but it isn't the same at all, the ability to switch in and guarantee a live is incredible. I mean, if these Fire-types had enough, why would you use Incineroar so often? These Pokemon appreciate being able to click other moves, especially Chi-Yu who is commonly choice locked.

As for Harcanine , I can't understand what you're suggesting, because Landorus-T hits harder unless Harcanine is clicking Flare Blitz and taking recoil on a Pokemon vulnerable to a lot anyway. You're clicking Rock Slide pretty much 80% of the time but use Banded Landorus-T and suddenly there's an issue. Landorus-T compresses the same Intimidate and damage output, but also; an answer to Landorus and Raging Bolt ,

Landorus-T functioned fine in Regulation-E due to the fact that people hadn't discovered how insane Landorus-I was, once it was clear as day how amazing Landorus-I was, people haven't stopped using it.

Not true, Landorus was explored throughout the regulations and even when at an all-time high in Regulation E, it was still pretty niche in comparison to its therian counterpart

Another thing to notice is that fact there there aren't bigger Tera Hogs than Landorus-T , it needs to Tera to get a good STAB move!
The general trend we have noticed in this Regulation is that if people want to use Intimidate, they use either Incineroar and Hisui-Arcanine . If not, they completely ditch the idea of using Intimidate and prefer using Strong Ground STAB from Landorus-I and better Choice Scarf Mons in Urshifu formes. If Choice Scarf is used on a better Pokemon, Ground STAB is covered by arguably better Pokemon, Intimidate is covered by better Pokemon, why would any use Landorus-T . Not just me, but arguably really good players haven't considered using it, because there is no merit to use it. The only good team that came out with Landorus-T was the Justin Tang Core, which had a good showing for a decent time but that's it for Landorus-T .

All I really need to do is bring up Regulation E once again, why is it allowed to be an S-tier Tera hog there but suddenly unviable this meta? Why are people using Arcanine-H ? It shares more similarities with Incineroar than Landorus-T but only Landorus-T gets dissed on for being outclassed. Said good players can think whatever they want, I don't think I'm going to change my opinion because someone else believes otherwise. What if I told you sempra believes Landorus is an A- Pokemon? Would you switch up your belief just because he's a better player? Also curious, if you already thought Landorus-T was B earlier in the format, how far-fetched is a rise when a new set and team is innovated?

 

[fyfyy]

Sure they have their own damage mitigation but it isn't the same at all, the ability to switch in and guarantee a live is incredible. I mean, if these Fire-types had enough, why would you use Incineroar so often? These Pokemon appreciate being able to click other moves, especially Chi-Yu who is commonly choice locked.

As for Harcanine , I can't understand what you're suggesting, because Landorus-T hits harder unless Harcanine is clicking Flare Blitz and taking recoil on a Pokemon vulnerable to a lot anyway. You're clicking Rock Slide pretty much 80% of the time but use Banded Landorus-T and suddenly there's an issue. Landorus-T compresses the same Intimidate and damage output, but also; an answer to Landorus and Raging Bolt ,


Not true, Landorus was explored throughout the regulations and even when at an all-time high in Regulation E, it was still pretty niche in comparison to its therian counterpart



All I really need to do is bring up Regulation E once again, why is it allowed to be an S-tier Tera hog there but suddenly unviable this meta? Why are people using Arcanine-H ? It shares more similarities with Incineroar than Landorus-T but only Landorus-T gets dissed on for being outclassed. Said good players can think whatever they want, I don't think I'm going to change my opinion because someone else believes otherwise. What if I told you sempra believes Landorus is an A- Pokemon? Would you switch up your belief just because he's a better player? Also curious, if you already thought Landorus-T was B earlier in the format, how far-fetched is a rise when a new set and team is innovated?

Addressing Para 2 - Landorus-T hits harder than Arcanine-Hisui unless its clicking its STAB moves, what does that even mean, I mean its gonna click Rock Slide and Flare Blitzes, its Rock Slide is hitting harder due to STAB and Choice Band anyways. I don't understand what you are trying to demonstrate there. Also, its just a good switch-in into Landorus-I , not an answer.

Addressing Para 3 - Landorus was explored in the second half of Regulation E and became a Top 15 Pokemon really quickly.

Addressing Para 4 - We discussed how Landorus-T needs Tailwind, then why was Arcanine-H so prominently used in the Tailwind Hyper Offense Teams. This is due to the fact it actually hits harder than Landorus-T as it uses Choice Band, sure Landorus-T can use Choice Band as well, but what are its Strong STAB moves, Earthquake which becomes 50 BP in Grassy Terrain and Stomping Tantrum that's 75 BP?? It needs to Tera to utilize its secondary STAB, how pathetic is that?
A single team that players made just to pick up on Wolfey's "L"andorus-T video, it sure had some success in MSS and had a decent showing on ladder, but it can't raise up Landorus-T ranking by any means and its flaws are actually so bad that its good points can't be utilized in the current meta.

I do feel like we have different opinions on this topic, I have never considered Landorus-T a S Tier Pokemon since it is introduced in the format. It feels like a Jack of All Trades but "Master of None." Everything outclasses it in one or the other way, be it utility, damage output, typing, Tera, etc.
Its flaws became evidently visible in this Regulation, and therefore no is using it. I feel, unless some innovation with Clear Amulet Sets is done, which can run Protect and doesn't reduce its damage output, it isn't gonna see much usage and so have no results in the format, which is a good metric to determine how good a Pokemon is doing in the metagame. It isn't fundamentally a "bad" Pokemon, its just that everything is better than it in the format.

 

[LovelyLuna]

Addressing Para 2 - Landorus-T hits harder than Arcanine-Hisui unless its clicking its STAB moves, what does that even mean, I mean its gonna click Rock Slide and Flare Blitzes, its Rock Slide is hitting harder due to STAB and Choice Band anyways. I don't understand what you are trying to demonstrate there. Also, its just a good switch-in into Landorus-I , not an answer.

Flare Blitz specifically, You're usually spamming Rock Slide which isn't hitting as hard as Landorus-T . Also not sure what you need to be an answer, It is one of the few switch ins to Landorus and wins the 1v1.

Addressing Para 3 - Landorus was explored in the second half of Regulation E and became a Top 15 Pokemon really quickly.

and Landorus-T was a Top 5 Pokemon

Addressing Para 4 - We discussed how Landorus-T needs Tailwind, then why was Arcanine-H so prominently used in the Tailwind Hyper Offense Teams. This is due to the fact it actually hits harder than Landorus-T as it uses Choice Band, sure Landorus-T can use Choice Band as well, but what are its Strong STAB moves, Earthquake which becomes 50 BP in Grassy Terrain and Stomping Tantrum that's 75 BP?? It needs to Tera to utilize its secondary STAB, how pathetic is that?
A single team that players made just to pick up on Wolfey's "L"andorus-T video, it sure had some success in MSS and had a decent showing on ladder, but it can't raise up Landorus-T ranking by any means and its flaws are actually so bad that its good points can't be utilized in the current meta.

Scarf Landorus-T is never on Tailwind. I'm talking about Choice Band, the Justin Tang squad was built to make up for the speed lost when running Choice Scarf. Those Ground STAB moves are plenty fine when you're comparing them to Rock Slide, 55 BP after spread reduction is certainly a move. You don't need to OHKO your opponents with 100 BP STAB moves to dish out good damage, Lando-T 's STABs are perfectly fine with its attack stat when you don't compare it to Landorus and Specs Flutter Mane .

I don't understand what flaws you're talking about, it has one of the best meta matchups of every other Pokemon and every single issue its facing rn, it faced worse in Reg E. As a Pokemon its perfectly fine and up there, sure the Incineroar competition hinders it down, but that's just one Pokemon that has enough differences to Landorus-T . "You need to tera" "You dpn't do as much after an Intimidate" "Rillaboom". What Pokemon want to Tera rn? Do they want to Tera more than the Ogerpon formes and Heatran in Regulation E? Landorus-T being a Tera hog is not as big of a deal as you make it out to be. Incineroar tries to switch in and takes 50? Landorus-T had to deal with mirrors, a Ground-immune Intimidator that isn't weak to Rock Slide.

Honestly, after this conversation I want to retract my nom, I don't intend to settle for B+, Landorus-T from B -> A-.

I do feel like we have different opinions on this topic, I have never considered Landorus-T a S Tier Pokemon since it is introduced in the format. It feels like a Jack of All Trades but "Master of None." Everything outclasses it in one or the other way, be it utility, damage output, typing, Tera, etc.
Its flaws became evidently visible in this Regulation, and therefore no is using it. I feel, unless some innovation with Clear Amulet Sets is done, which can run Protect and doesn't reduce its damage output, it isn't gonna see much usage and so have no results in the format, which is a good metric to determine how good a Pokemon is doing in the metagame. It isn't fundamentally a "bad" Pokemon, its just that everything is better than it in the format.

I do think you're calling it a bad Pokemon from this, saying it has no use and not understanding its role compression. Yes Ogerpon-W is outclassed by Urshifu-R in damage output, and Amoonguss for utility/disruption, but compress them into one Pokemon and it is better than both. Landorus-T compresses Landorus 's typing and STAB, as well as Incineroar 's utility as an Intimidate pivot.

If I still didn't get through to you I don't think you can be convinced no matter what I say and it's best to leave the conversation at that.

 

[fyfyy]

Flare Blitz specifically, You're usually spamming Rock Slide which isn't hitting as hard as Landorus-T . Also not sure what you need to be an answer, It is one of the few switch ins to Landorus and wins the 1v1.


and Landorus-T was a Top 5 Pokemon


Scarf Landorus-T is never on Tailwind. I'm talking about Choice Band, the Justin Tang squad was built to make up for the speed lost when running Choice Scarf. Those Ground STAB moves are plenty fine when you're comparing them to Rock Slide, 55 BP after spread reduction is certainly a move. You don't need to OHKO your opponents with 100 BP STAB moves to dish out good damage, Lando-T 's STABs are perfectly fine with its attack stat when you don't compare it to Landorus and Specs Flutter Mane .

I don't understand what flaws you're talking about, it has one of the best meta matchups of every other Pokemon and every single issue its facing rn, it faced worse in Reg E. As a Pokemon its perfectly fine and up there, sure the Incineroar competition hinders it down, but that's just one Pokemon that has enough differences to Landorus-T . "You need to tera" "You dpn't do as much after an Intimidate" "Rillaboom". What Pokemon want to Tera rn? Do they want to Tera more than the Ogerpon formes and Heatran in Regulation E? Landorus-T being a Tera hog is not as big of a deal as you make it out to be. Incineroar tries to switch in and takes 50? Landorus-T had to deal with mirrors, a Ground-immune Intimidator that isn't weak to Rock Slide.

Honestly, after this conversation I want to retract my nom, I don't intend to settle for B+, Landorus-T from B -> A-.


I do think you're calling it a bad Pokemon from this, saying it has no use and not understanding its role compression. Yes Ogerpon-W is outclassed by Urshifu-R in damage output, and Amoonguss for utility/disruption, but compress them into one Pokemon and it is better than both. Landorus-T compresses Landorus 's typing and STAB, as well as Incineroar 's utility as an Intimidate pivot.

If I still didn't get through to you I don't think you can be convinced no matter what I say and it's best to leave the conversation at that.

I do agree, we are both pretty strict about our own views about the Pokemon. I still feel that its a good Pokemon, not worth considering to use in the metagame right now. The statement is based on usage and results, which I often use as a metric to determine if a Pokemon is good or bad in the metagame. It might be different for other people and might not even be the best way to judge things, but that's what I mostly think of it. I just feel if it was that good, people would have used it and since people aren't using it, then the whole conversation seems flawed in the first place. I mean whatever we say doesn't affect how good it actually is, it isn't gonna be used by players and that ain't changing in Regulation F for sure.
I'd still love to see it developing, but I think its just not good enough to be used right.

 

[KindaKaon]

I do agree, we are both pretty strict about our own views about the Pokemon. I still feel that its a good Pokemon, not worth considering to use in the metagame right now. The statement is based on usage and results, which I often use as a metric to determine if a Pokemon is good or bad in the metagame. It might be different for other people and might not even be the best way to judge things, but that's what I mostly think of it. I just feel if it was that good, people would have used it and since people aren't using it, then the whole conversation seems flawed in the first place. I mean whatever we say doesn't affect how good it actually is, it isn't gonna be used by players and that ain't changing in Regulation F for sure.
I'd still love to see it developing, but I think its just not good enough to be used right.

landorus-t not being worth using rn is a bit bizarre take imo. especially if you want to run a gouging centric team its a REALLY nice option for an intim mon that has good meta MUs with stab combo. I think choice band overhyped perhaps and scarf will prevail but bottom line is that I think lando T doubters are massive frauds, its not for every team given how strong incin is but its definitely worth exploring and very much has several strong use cases

 

[fyfyy]

landorus-t not being worth using rn is a bit bizarre take imo. especially if you want to run a gouging centric team its a REALLY nice option for an intim mon that has good meta MUs with stab combo. I think choice band overhyped perhaps and scarf will prevail but bottom line is that I think lando T doubters are massive frauds, its not for every team given how strong incin is but its definitely worth exploring and very much has several strong use cases

I am a believer in the Clear Amulet set right now. Wolfey had used it to good success and I feel it has great potential overall. The Choice Band Set was really well thought, utilizing Teras other than Flying was a great decision in teambuilding, increasing damage output and giving better answers to common Pokemon like Urshifu-S just with the help of opting for defensive Tera is nice. Gouging Fire centric teams can consider running it, but they prefer using more Bulky Ground Types like Ting-Lu who can stay more on the field, which isn't a key trait for Lando-T, as it likes to go in and out with U-Turn, which completely nullifies the boost anyways. I don't think it isn't worth exploring, I mean people have made really niche Pokemon work, I never thought Articuno would win a regional, definitely interested to see if someone actually creates a solid core using Landorus-T .

 

[flutterfan]

I do agree, we are both pretty strict about our own views about the Pokemon. I still feel that its a good Pokemon, not worth considering to use in the metagame right now. The statement is based on usage and results, which I often use as a metric to determine if a Pokemon is good or bad in the metagame. It might be different for other people and might not even be the best way to judge things, but that's what I mostly think of it. I just feel if it was that good, people would have used it and since people aren't using it, then the whole conversation seems flawed in the first place. I mean whatever we say doesn't affect how good it actually is, it isn't gonna be used by players and that ain't changing in Regulation F for sure.
I'd still love to see it developing, but I think its just not good enough to be used right.

Agree with fyfyy here, though I do think that Harc is more on par with Lando-T personally than Incin. Kind of tough to use as an Intimidator right now with water, fighting, and ground moves running around.

 

[KindaKaon]

I am a believer in the Clear Amulet set right now. Wolfey had used it to good success and I feel it has great potential overall. The Choice Band Set was really well thought, utilizing Teras other than Flying was a great decision in teambuilding, increasing damage output and giving better answers to common Pokemon like Urshifu-S just with the help of opting for defensive Tera is nice. Gouging Fire centric teams can consider running it, but they prefer using more Bulky Ground Types like Ting-Lu who can stay more on the field, which isn't a key trait for Lando-T, as it likes to go in and out with U-Turn, which completely nullifies the boost anyways. I don't think it isn't worth exploring, I mean people have made really niche Pokemon work, I never thought Articuno would win a regional, definitely interested to see if someone actually creates a solid core using Landorus-T .

nullifies the boost of what? landoT uturning is almost always an objective good since it resets intim. maybe i just misread which is my bad.
anyway, i don’t really See ting as being actually that much better than landoT - we’ve seen a big increase of more offensive teams, especially ones with stuff like chien pao to supplement the otherwise lacking damage of a lot of standard balance cores. lando T is a really cool choice as an intim role compression that gives you Lando Is offensive spread but trades the massive breaking power (and fact that you’re a special attacker) for (usually) a scarf which lets you threaten pao and a lot of role compression. i think landoT is worse than incin, but i would be much less surprised if it won a regional than i was when arti won

 

[MrAmbassador]

S -> A+
Raging Bolt doesn’t apply enough offensive pressure and is not worthy of S tier in my opinion

 

[KindaKaon]

S -> A+
Raging Bolt doesn’t apply enough offensive pressure and is not worthy of S tier in my opinion

bolt applies enough offensive pressure to make waterfu players actually think in team preview, bolt is like the freest mu patch you can add to your team

 

[LovelyLuna]

Raging Bolt from S -> S.

Seen quite a few people who believe it should drop but this is a great call by the council. Raging Bolt is incredibly versatile, being able to be a strong bulky attacker with Assault Vest, a sweeper through Calm Mind, or even just bullshit through the format with 3 attacks. This lets it be super splashable and gives you a check to pretty much half the format in one slot, the matchup against the Urshifu formes is in particular appreciated, as they are the hardest pokemon to play around defensively. Id honestly suggest that the AV set alone is A+, having minimal bad matchups. I think AV Raging Bolt is kind of like the Iron Hands of Regulation F imo, it doesn't die, dishes out great damage, provides utility in priority, and makes for a great addition to every archetype. A huge thing is that Iron Hands also didn't have specific good matchups, but to be more accurate could 1v1 almost the entire metagame thanks to big block of stats, same with Raging Bolt . But what if, Iron Hands could also run a set up set without fear of Flutter Mane or faster threats? That's Raging Bolt . Its movepool shows its versatility even further, allowing you to run Snarl for Flutter Mane and Landorus , Electroweb as a speed control option, Tera Blast to threaten Urshifu, etc. Incredibly hard to go wrong with this Pokemon and no one bats an eye if you put it on Tailwind, Goodstuffs, Gouging Fire Offense, Snow, Balance, and more. I'd honestly argue it's better than Ogerpon-W right now!

 

[fyfyy]

Absolute banger of a post ng

Raging Bolt from S -> S.

Seen quite a few people who believe it should drop but this is a great call by the council. Raging Bolt is incredibly versatile, being able to be a strong bulky attacker with Assault Vest, a sweeper through Calm Mind, or even just bullshit through the format with 3 attacks. This lets it be super splashable and gives you a check to pretty much half the format in one slot, the matchup against the Urshifu formes is in particular appreciated, as they are the hardest pokemon to play around defensively. Id honestly suggest that the AV set alone is A+, having minimal bad matchups. I think AV Raging Bolt is kind of like the Iron Hands of Regulation F imo, it doesn't die, dishes out great damage, provides utility in priority, and makes for a great addition to every archetype. A huge thing is that Iron Hands also didn't have specific good matchups, but to be more accurate could 1v1 almost the entire metagame thanks to big block of stats, same with Raging Bolt . But what if, Iron Hands could also run a set up set without fear of Flutter Mane or faster threats? That's Raging Bolt . Its movepool shows its versatility even further, allowing you to run Snarl for Flutter Mane and Landorus , Electroweb as a speed control option, Tera Blast to threaten Urshifu, etc. Incredibly hard to go wrong with this Pokemon and no one bats an eye if you put it on Tailwind, Goodstuffs, Gouging Fire Offense, Snow, Balance, and more. I'd honestly argue it's better than Ogerpon-W right now!

Absolute banger of a post. Covers everything I had in mind, I think with its versatility and ability to run multiple move sets, its like the Iron Hands of the format, pretty much in my opinion the #1/#2 of the metagame right now.