VGC 2024 Regulation F Metagame Discussion

LovelyLuna

Lost in a life full of mistakes
is a Site Content Manageris an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
1703010950385.png

Welcome to the VGC 2024 Metagame Discussion thread for Regulation F! As of December 14th, the Indigo Disk DLC was released and the Regulation F ladder was up shortly after. This lead to discussions on the Regulation *E* thread, now all discussions of the Regulation F metagame will be dedicated to this thread! The ruleset of Regulation F legalizes All non-mythical Indigo Disk DLC content and is an unrestricted format.

The following Pokemon are BANNED

:mewtwo: :mew: :lugia: :ho oh: :kyogre: :groudon: :rayquaza: :deoxys: :deoxys-attack: :deoxys-defense: :deoxys-speed: :jirachi: :dialga: :dialga-origin: :palkia: :palkia-origin: :giratina: :giratina-origin: :phione: :manaphy: :darkrai: :shaymin: :arceus: :reshiram: :zekrom: :kyurem: :keldeo: :meloetta: :greninja:(BB) :diancie: :hoopa: :hoopa-unbound: :volcanion: :solgaleo: :lunala: :necrozma: :necrozma-dusk-mane: :necrozma-dawn-wings: :magearna: :zacian: :zacian-crowned: :zamazenta: :zamazenta-crowned: :eternatus: :zarude: :calyrex: :calyrex-ice: :calyrex-shadow: :koraidon: :miraidon: :Terapagos:. :Pecharunt:

The following NEW Pokémon are allowed

:Archaludon:, :Hydrapple:, :Gouging Fire:, :Raging Bolt:, :Iron Boulder:, :Iron Crown:

The following RETURNING Pokémon are allowed

:Venusaur: :Blastoise: :Vileplume: :Tentacruel: :Dodrio: :Dewgong: :Exeggutor: :Hitmonchan: :Hitmonlee: :Lapras: :Meganium: :Feraligatr:, :Lanturn: :Bellossom: :Granbull: :Skarmory: :Kingdra: :Smeargle: :Hitmontop: :Raikou: :Entei: :Suicune: :Sceptile: :Blaziken: :Swampert: :Plusle: :Minun: :Flygon: :Metagross: :Regirock: :Regice: :Registeel: :Latias: :Latios: :Rampardos: :Bastiodon: :Rhyperior: :Electivire: :Magmortar: :Porygon-Z: :Regigigas: :Serperior: :Emboar: :Zebstrika: :Excadrill: :Whimsicott: :Scrafty: :Cinccino: :Reuniclus: :Galvantula: :Golurk: :Cobalion: :Terrakion: :Virizion: :Meowstic: :Malamar: :Incineroar: :Primarina: :Toucannon: :Araquanid: :Comfey: :Minior: :Alcremie:

NEW ABILITIES

Tera Shift: When the Pokémon enters a battle, it absorbs the energy around itself and transforms into its Terastal Form.
Tera Shell: The Pokémon's shell contains the powers of each type. All damage-dealing moves that hit the Pokémon when its HP is full will not be very effective.
Teraform Zero: When Terapagos changes into its Stellar Form, it uses its hidden powers to eliminate all effects of weather and terrain, reducing them to zero.

NEW MOVES


If you're new to VGC, be sure to check out the other posts in the forum and to join our Discord! You might also want to look into resources like VGCPastes, VGC Guide, VGC damage calculator to help you get started/​
 
Last edited:
First! I'll give some discussion topics here. After 100+ games on ladder (should be around 150) I think I'm able to put up discussion topics.
-Incineroar coming back has led to the rise of IncinRillaShifu cores. Will this become dominant, fall off or find a midpoint where it's an amazing core but heavily countered?

-Archaludon has taken the competition by storm, with stamina, insane base stats and being a dragon not weak to fairy. What is the future of this pokemon?

-Landorus-Incarnate is a beast, is this just a meta phase or is Landorus incarnate a serious threat, perhaps better than Therian?
 

LovelyLuna

Lost in a life full of mistakes
is a Site Content Manageris an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
Early meta thoughts!

Incineroar, Rillaboom, and Scarf Urshifu-Rapid-Strike :Incineroar: :Rillaboom: :Urshifu-Rapid-Strike: is a fantastic Balance pivoting core where each pokemon covers each other's weaknesses. Can put pressure on the majority of the meta and difficult to check. Core also brings a lot of support for the rest of the team, in damage reduction, Fake out, pivoting, and having a fast nuke option that can break down a lot of the meta. The core of Incineroar, Rillaboom, and Scarf Urshifu-Rapid-Strike :Incineroar: :Rillaboom: :Urshifu-Rapid-Strike: creates a lot of free turns through this and why you'll usually find Gholdengo :Gholdengo: or Kingambit :Kingambit: on those teams, very effective set up pokemon that can wreck teams on their own.

I've also seen variants use Amoonguss :Amoonguss: over Rillaboom :Rillaboom: who brings redirection, healing, and sleep. It is especially strong this format because Incineroar :Incineroar: has the ability to knock off opposing safety goggles and consistently force out grass types (apart from Ogerpon-Wellspring :Ogerpon-Wellspring: who Amoonguss :Amoonguss: can beat anyway). This change makes set up easier, as well as helps with the Raging Bolt :Raging Bolt: and Archaludon :Archaludon: matchup. This is done by protecting Urshifu from their strong electric moves and safely putting them to sleep, retreating to regenerate off the damage. Dragons in general are a threat to the aforementioned core due to how well they can take the hits and slowly break their team with support.

Speaking of Raging Bolt :Raging Bolt:, it has shown time and time again that it's here to stay, having a great matchup into the Incineroar, Rillaboom, Urshifu-Rapid-Strike :Incineroar: :Rillaboom: :Urshifu-Rapid-Strike: Balance core, or in other words, the revolving door. Raging Bolt :Raging Bolt: is also a threat to the still ever-present Tornadus Urshifu-Rapid-Strike :Tornadus: :Urshifu-Rapid-Strike: lead, meaning it can fix quite a few holes in teams. I believe its struggling more as Landorus :Landorus: rises in popularity with the duo though.

Landorus-I :Landorus: can't be seen as a solid niche pick anymore, because it's now a meta staple! Landorus :Landorus: rose in popularity in Regulation E alongside Gholengo :Gholdengo:, due to the ability to check it and be it's best offensive partner, putting pressure on the handful of Make It Rain resists teams had. But a big issue it was facing was the dominance of Landorus-T :Landorus-Therian:. Took up too many spots and Landorus-I :Landorus: had a hard time finding a place in the meta. Now that Incineroar :Incineroar: is available, It's the far more dominant Intimidator and not only brings Landorus :Landorus: significantly less competition, but also brings it another target. Both Incineroar :Incineroar: and :Raging Bolt: are the best DLC pokemon added, and both get deleted off the field by Landorus :Landorus:. In fact, almost half of the meta is hit super effectively by the Earth Power Sludge Bomb combination.

You may have noticed that the two pokemon above have one bad matchup in common...Chien-Pao :Chien-Pao:. Chien-Pao :Chien-Pao: seems to have become a huge sleeper pick as more people gravitate away from it due to the newly added Incineroar :Incineroar:. But people really forget how much Chien-Pao can actually hit in this meta, it is the ultimate 1v1 pokemon and a great support option simply by being on the field due to due to sword of ruin. Out of my personal top 20, in a 1v1 situation, :Chien-Pao: beats; Incineroar :Incineroar:, Flutter Mane :Flutter Mane:, Rillaboom :Rillaboom:, opposing Chien-Pao :Chien-Pao: (technically), Gholdengo :Gholdengo:, Tornadus :Tornadus:, Ogerpon-Wellspring :Ogerpon-Wellspring:, Kingambit :Kingambit:, Urshifu-Single-Strike :Urshifu:, Landorus-I :Landorus:, Raging Bolt :Raging Bolt:, Landorus-T :Landorus-Therian:, Roaring Moon, :Roaring Moon:, Whimsicott :Whimsicott:, Iron Bundle :Iron Bundle:. That's 75% of the meta that Chien-Pao: is capable of annihilating. I know this doesn't directly correlate to meta matchup, as a double up or something like intimidate changing the outcome of the matchup, however this is still an insane feat. Chien-Pao :Chien-Pao: by itself is a ridiculous pokemon, and what further boosts it is how well it can pair up with pokemon who appreciate the extra boost. Urshifu-Rapid-Strike, :Urshifu-Rapid-Strike:, Rillaboom :Rillaboom:, Ogerpon-Wellspring :Ogerpon-Wellspring:, Iron Hearthflame, :Ogerpon-Hearthflame:, etc.

A cool pokemon I'd like to mention that has received hate is Gouging Fire :Gouging Fire:. Both it's supportive movepool consisting of Breaking Swipe, Howl, Snarl, and even Dragon Tail, as well as Offensive movepool with Dragon Dance, Heat Crash/Flare Blitz, Dragon Claw/Scale Shot, Stomping Tantrum, Stone Miss, Crunch, etc look pretty good. It even has recovery in morning sun if it wants it. Pokemon has ridiculous amount of bulk to pull off the sets, being bulkier than Kingambit :Kingambit: and relative bulk to Intimidate Landorus-T :Landorus-Therian: for example. What stands out the most though, has to be its signature move. Burning Bulwark has the downside of not protecting you from parting shot or spore (its two best items answer the two, so you'll only have to watch out for one), but burns with contact, like spiky shield. Making Iron Hands :Iron Hands:, Rillaboom :Rillaboom:, Chien-Pao :Chien-Pao:, Ogerpon-Wellspring :Ogerpon-Wellspring:, Kingambit :Kingambit:, Landorus-T :Landorus-Therian:, Roaring Moon :Roaring Moon:, etc second guess before attacking you, as one wrong read can lead to a practically useless pokemon on their side, is incredible. Support sets can stick on the field and neutralise Incineroar :Incineroar: switch ins with Howl, or cripple special attackers like Gholdengo :Gholdengo: and Flutter Mane :Flutter Mane: with Snarl. Dragon Dance sets also pose a threat, being able to 1v1 the majority of the meta and have an even easier time setting up with Fake out and redirection support. It's also a good way to make up for Gouging Fire :Gouging Fire:'s rather underwhelming speed tier, making it outspeed this like Roaring Moon :Roaring Moon: and Adamant Chien-Pao :Chien-Pao: when you invest. Gouging Fire :Gouging Fire: does notably face issues as you'll probably sacrifice your Incineroar :Incineroar: slot in the building process, and Clear Amulet sets can be pinned by Fake out spore if you're not careful. I think it's a very cool pokemon and felt I needed to explain what it fulfils further.

A relatively unorthodox pick I've seen on ladder a few times is Rocky Helmet Latias :Latias:. Its typing is poor into Flutter Mane :Flutter Mane: and Chien-Pao :Chien-Pao:, but walls Urshifu-Rapid-Strike :Urshifu-Rapid-Strike:, Iron Hands :Iron Hands:, High Horsepower Rillaboom :Rillaboom:, and the popular Ogerpon :Ogerpon: formes. Packs damage reduction and a great overall stab in Mist Ball and has the Draco Meteor nuke option. Has Tailwind, Breaking Swipe, Helping Hand, Recover, and Dragon Cheer as solid support moves. Latios :Latios: also looks like it can preform the same set, sacrificing bulk for power. Or even just an all out offensive set, since it wields all the coverage you could possibly ask for and a good speed tier. Though I think the Offensive sets will be much more niche as many pokemon can replicate it.

Pelipper Archaludon :Pelipper: :Archaludon: has been a popular archetype since Day 1, as Archaludon :Archaludon: being able to spam an electric type Meteor Beam is absolutely ridiculous, allows for more defensive EV spreads with as little as Special Attack as 36 Modest. As most of these teams run Urshifu-Rapid-Strike :Urshifu-Rapid-Strike:, Self Surging Strikes or Self U-turn is effective for stamina boosts, making Archaludon wall the majority of the meta. It can also run Stalwart on some niche teams, ignoring Amoonguss :Amoonguss: or Ogerpon-Wellspring :Ogerpon-Wellspring: from stopping what it can do best. Not to mention Archaludon :Archaludon: has a superb defensive typing and when paired with Incineroar :Incineroar: and Amoonguss :Amoonguss: it can really stick on the field, setting up to one shot your entire team. Its poor Special Defense unfortunately locks it into Assault Vest as an item to not be annihilated by Flutter Mane :Flutter Mane:, but not many want to go for Fake out and give you a stamina boost. I don't expect this archetype to ever be bad this Regulation however I do expect it to fall off a bit after new toy syndrome dies down.

Porygon2 :Porygon2: and Farigiraf :Farigiraf: Trick Room is seeing success right now, Incineroar :Incineroar: being a fantastic enabler that can also parting shot into your sweepers to not waste valuable TR turns. I've seen the standard Ursalunas :Ursaluna:, :Ursaluna-Bloodmoon:, Kingambit :Kingambit:, and Torkoal :Torkoal:. But something that piques my interest is Araquanid :Araquanid:. One of the slowest pokemon available and with water bubble, can 2hko even resists. Only a handful of pokemon live a Tera Water Wave Crash and even those may have a bad matchup into Araquanid :Araquanid:, such as Amoonguss :Amoonguss: who falls victim to Substitute. I think these teams are doing pretty well right now, especially because they function as Semi-Room compositions and have a strong Balance mode.

Lastly, I'd like to cover Indeedee :Indeedee-F: Psyspam, which is much better right now. The trick room variants now have access to Hatterene :Hatterene:, who is harder to stop, as you can't call your matchup fine because of a dark type anymore. Even Incineroar who can stomach 3 or so hits struggles to do much due to Hatterene :Hatterene:'s Magic Bounce. The duo does now begin to find issues into Gholdengo :Gholdengo: if Hatterene :Hatterene: doesn't run Mystical Fire. That's not all though! With the Indigo Disk, Armarouge :Armarouge: has gained access to Meteor Beam and now Incineroar :Incineroar: isn't a reliable answer but set up fodder for Armarouge :Armarouge:. Life Orb was bad? Now imagine facing it at +1, wow. Indeedee :Indeedee-F: has become even more versatile now that Expanding Force also spread to fast threats outside of Trick room. Iron Crown :Iron Crown: has been terrorising the ladder, giving Psyspam a new light. However, I don't think these Iron Crown :Iron Crown: teams are very good, in fact, I consider Iron Valiant :Iron Valiant: the better Expanding Force user right now. This is because of how versatile it can be when you look at its supportive movepool, and having a more consistent option of hitting Incineroar :Incineroar: and Kingambit :Kingambit: (ohkoing with Helping Hand). The two are some of the most popular pokemon and Iron Crown :Iron Crown: not bring able to damage them or relying on Focus Blast is a bad look. Iron Crown :Iron Crown: is also fundamentally not a reliable pokemon, the two pokemon it wants to snipe with Tacheon Cutter just outspeed and ohko it, and it struggles to play into a lot of the top pokemon right now (the previously mentioned Incineroar :Incineroar: and Kingambit :Kingambit:, Gholdengo :Gholdengo:, Ogerpon-Hearthflame :Ogerpon-Hearthflame:, Landorus-I:Landorus:, Roaring Moon :Roaring Moon:, etc). While Iron Valiant :Iron Valiant:'s extra speed and superior offensive typing let it best the majority of said picks. Not to say Valiant :Iron Valiant: is without issues either, it's bulk is very underwhelming and struggles to damage Gholdengo :Gholdengo: or Rillaboom :Rillaboom:, and this is one of the only teams it can actually work so I can see it as a niche pick.

To end it off, here's my personal top 30 pokemon right now

1. Incineroar :Incineroar:
2. Flutter Mane :Flutter Mane:
3. Amoonguss :Amoonguss:
4. Iron Hands :Iron Hands:
5. Urshifu-Rapid-Strike :Urshifu-Rapid-Strike:
6. Rillaboom :Rillaboom:
7. Chien-Pao :Chien-Pao:
8. Gholdengo :Gholdengo:
9. Tornadus :Tornadus:
10. Ogerpon-Wellspring :Ogerpon-Wellspring:
11. Kingambit :Kingambit:
12. Landorus-I :Landorus:
13. Urshifu :Urshifu:
14. Raging Bolt :Raging Bolt:
15. Ogerpon-Hearthflame :Ogerpon-Hearthflame:
16. Roaring Moon :Roaring Moon:
17. Landorus-T :Landorus-Therian:
18. Whimsicott :Whimsicott:
19. Iron Bundle :Iron Bundle:
20. Farigiraf :Farigiraf:
21. Porygon2 :Porygon2:
22. Archaludon :Archaludon:
23. Dondozo :Dondozo:
24. Dragonite :Dragonite:
25. Regidrago :Regidrago:
26. Tatsugiri :Tatsugiri:
27. Glimmora :Glimmora:
28. Pelipper :Pelipper:
29. Indeedee :Indeedee-F:
30. Walking Wake :Walking Wake:
 
Last edited:
I’m pretty shocked that :Chi-Yu: wasn’t on that list. I’ve been trying out a Whims/Chi-Yu/Flutter core on ladder and its damage output can’t be ignored. Whims can set up Prankster Sunny Day for Chi-Yu. You can swap in Whims for Flutter, and then sweep. Honestly, it’s unfortunate that people are doubting Chi-Yu in Reg F, it can definitely still do the things that it loves to do(Spam Heat Wave, Spam Overheat, and Spam Dark Pulse! All while with Beads of Ruin active and Flutter as well! Insta-win if you don’t have counters)
 

Vinc2612

The V stands for VGC
is a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Dedicated Tournament Host Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
But something that piques my interest is Araquanid :Araquanid:. One of the slowest pokemon available and with water bubble, can 2hko even resists. Only a handful of pokemon live a Tera Water Wave Crash and even those may have a bad matchup into Araquanid :Araquanid:, such as Amoonguss :Amoonguss: who falls victim to Substitute. I think these teams are doing pretty well right now, especially because they function as Semi-Room compositions and have a strong Balance mode.
Araquanid does not learn Wave Crash. Liquidation is disappointing, missing most neutral OHKOes, even with Tera
 

LovelyLuna

Lost in a life full of mistakes
is a Site Content Manageris an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
I’m pretty shocked that :Chi-Yu: wasn’t on that list. I’ve been trying out a Whims/Chi-Yu/Flutter core on ladder and its damage output can’t be ignored. Whims can set up Prankster Sunny Day for Chi-Yu. You can swap in Whims for Flutter, and then sweep. Honestly, it’s unfortunate that people are doubting Chi-Yu in Reg F, it can definitely still do the things that it loves to do(Spam Heat Wave, Spam Overheat, and Spam Dark Pulse! All while with Beads of Ruin active and Flutter as well! Insta-win if you don’t have counters)
Chi-Yu :Chi-Yu: wasn't far off for me, but main reason is that I don't find Sun too great right now, Tornadus :Tornadus: getting on the slower rain dance while being a poor matchup for Whimsicott :Whimsicott:, doesn't want to Taunt and drop to Bleakwind. Cool tech I've seen is Raging Bolt :Raging Bolt: Sun so you apply more pressure to TornShifu :Tornadus: :Urshifu-Rapid-Strike: and have more of a defensive backbone vs rain. The common partner for them though Landorus-I :Landorus: looks like a poor matchup even with Walking Wake. Sun can definitely steam roll teams if you're opponent can't stop it though.

Araquanid does not learn Wave Crash. Liquidation is disappointing, missing most neutral OHKOes, even with Tera
My mistake there, a let down. Though I'll say Liquidation is still a Nuke, seen it 2hko an Archaludon in rain. With Life Orb and Tera Water, you hit about 1.5x as hard as Landorus-I of all things. The pokemon who's risen almost solely because of its damage output. And also funny bonk

252+ Atk Mystic Water Water Bubble Tera-Water Araquanid Helping Hand Liquidation vs. 4 HP / 4 Def Iron Hands: 238-282 (103.4 - 122.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 
Last edited:
Regulation F is finally here on the Showdown Ladder!! I'm excited about the new paradox Pokemon, so I'll cover some that I find interesting or fun to use

...

I think that :gouging fire: (they have sprites now!!) is a very underrated Pokemon. Its typing is great offensively AND defensively, resisting most hits like :rillaboom:'s nasty Wood Hammers, and being neutral to most types it would be weak to thanks to its Fire typing, like :chien pao:'s STAB Ice moves, :urshifu-rapid-strike:'s Surging Strikes, :flutter mane:'s STAB Fairy moves, etc.

Its bulk is good as well. 105/121/93 is nice, and if you do not like how low the SpD is, Assault Vest can fix that. :gouging fire:'s physical defense is good too, allowing it to tank a lot of strong physical hits.

:gouging fire: also has a vast movepool, being able to be supportive with Snarl, Breaking Swipe, and Howl. Burning Bulwark is an incredible signature move, automatically shutting down physical attackers foolish enough to try to bonk it with their STABs. It has Dragon Dance, allowing it to be a good setup sweeper (you can also use this with Drought up, activating Protosynthesis)

...

It's no doubt that :raging bolt: is the new scariest SpAttacker in the metagame, boasting a higher SpA stat than :flutter mane:, which I'll remind you has a SpA of 135. Its HP stat is 125, which is not only huge, but this can make it very hard to remove, especially with Assault Vest (91 Def and 89 SpD aren't bad either). Thunderbolt and Draco Meteor are always strong STABs, but the star of the show is its signature move, Thunderclap. If you don't know how that move works, it's a Special and Electric version of Sucker Punch (btw, Thunderclap is 70 while Sucker Punch is 75). This move can just delete Choice Scarf :urshifu-rapid-strike:, which makes :raging bolt: even MORE impressive and broken. It also has great supportive options, Electroweb, Snarl, Taunt, and even Dragon Tail (If you can make it work I guess...).

...

I'm surprised that no one is mentioning :iron boulder:, because not only is it a good sleeper pick, but it is also (IMO) the BEST new Pokemon coming in the DLC. It's typing is bad, being weak to common offensive types (Ghost, Water, Grass,), and not resisting much back. But it makes that downside up with its stats. 125 Spe and 120 Atk are great, outspeeding most threats like :landorus: AND :landorus-therian:, :chi-yu:, and all forms of :ogerpon:. But what I'm crazing over is its signature move, Mighty Cleave.
It's a 95 Base Power Physical Rock Move, that, get this, phases through any form of Protect. You heard me right. We have ANOTHER Pokemon that can bypass Protect (Go eat your heart out, Gouging Fire). Close Combat, Pyscho Cut, and Throat Chop are all good coverage moves for it.

Anddd that's all I have to say! I could write about the others, but I don't have much time, and I can't spend all day writing this. What do you think is the new broken Pokemon in Regulation F, or what Pokemon has potential?
 
Last edited:
I’m gonna be posting my personal S tier and A tier viability rankings as of right now here:

S:

:Incineroar: Incineroar - C’mon guys, it’s Wincin. Of course it’s gonna be S tier.
:Flutter Mane: Flutter Mane - It kinda left the top 3 in the meta for a bit in Reg E but now it’s back! The meta is finally in Flutters favor again and I’m so excited to use one of my favorite mons this gen,

A+:

:Tornadus: Tornadus Incarnate Forme - Raging Bolt will not save us from Prankster Tailwind dominance, unfortunately. The archetype of Tornadus + Urshifu is still broken as ever and we probably will continue seeing it dominate until either Restricted formats or if the Tapus come back in a later Home update.
:Urshifu: Urshifu Rapid Strike - See above
:Raging Bolt: Raging Bolt - The only reason this thing is getting usage is because of Thunderclap, but that move is so busted that it’s A+ nonetheless.
:Rillaboom: Rillaboom - Listen here, Incin/Rilla/Raging/Ursh/Torn/Flutter is the best team in the meta right there.

A:

:Amoonguss: Amoonguss - Amoonguss might finally be back into the meta after an unfortunate Reg E. Spore is still such a solid move and Rage Powder can’t be ignored(no pun intended) as well.
:Landorus: Landorus Incarnate Forme - Lando-I is the best it’s ever been in Reg F, being a fantastic Incin counter is one thing, being a fantastic Raging and Hands counter is another,
:Chien-Pao: Chien-Pao - Thank god this thing didn’t get Triple Axel :breathing nervously:
:Ogerpon-Wellspring: Ogerpon Wellspring Mask - Waterpon is in a similar position to where it was in Reg E, where it’s very bulky if you can set it up but doesn‘t deal the damage you expect with Horn Leech and even Ivy Cudgel at some points.
:Ogerpon-Hearthflame: Ogerpon Hearthflame Mask - Firepon is the exact opposite of Waterpon in that it’s offense is just speechlessly incredible, but it’s defense… It has none.

A-:

All of these Pokemon I think are gonna be a little solid but not as much as a think the ones up in the tiers I just mentioned are.

:Gholdengo: Gholdengo - Read description of A- tier
:Iron Hands: Iron Hands - Read description of A- tier
:Archaludon: Archaludon - Read description of A- tier
:Kingambit: Kingambit - Read description of A- tier
:Landorus-Therian: Landorus Therian Forme - Read description of A- tier
:Whimsicott: Whimsicott - Read description of A- tier
 
I've noticed that no one is considering the new TMs. Those are made to mess up the current meta.

TM229 Upper Hand; will be a nightmare, it has the same priority as fake out and a fighting move. It will be a nightmare for Incineroar, some pokémon can one hit KO it before it even uses fake out. (I haven't tested it, but this TM is made for it, I guess.)

Whimsicott will have a problem with countering trick room teams, pranksters weakness is that it doesn't work on the dark type, so a dark tera type porygon2 will be scary (it also has acces to foul play). And Amoonguss with a dark tera type, can laugh at the taunt of Whimsicott.

And no one knows what Smeargle will do, it can also have the dark tera type. No one can predict this one, it can even revive a pokémon again with that reviving move that currently no one is using.

And Metagross will also end up high in the rankings. Metagross has now access to Knock off, Psychic Fangs (at last a great psychic stab move), Hard press (no idea how well this new move will be.) Metagross (with assault vest) might be a counter for Flutter Mane, I've got a feeling a bullet punch will finish it off.

TM227 Alluring Voice; will punish anyone raising stats
TM228 Psychic Noise; shuts down any healing, it would be a counter for porygon2 if it doesn't has the dark tera type.
TM226 Dragon Cheer; I haven't checked it yet, but it looks like something scary.

One thing for sure, the meta will be shaking up.
 

LovelyLuna

Lost in a life full of mistakes
is a Site Content Manageris an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
I've noticed that no one is considering the new TMs. Those are made to mess up the current meta.

TM229 Upper Hand; will be a nightmare, it has the same priority as fake out and a fighting move. It will be a nightmare for Incineroar, some pokémon can one hit KO it before it even uses fake out. (I haven't tested it, but this TM is made for it, I guess.)
I think it'll see some niche usage but nothing more, it only damages Incineroar :Incineroar: if it chooses to click fake out, otherwise you wasted your turn and Incineroar got a free Parting Shot or Knock Off. Main thing though is that a lot of the pokemon that get it already have 4 really good moves hard to replace.

Whimsicott will have a problem with countering trick room teams, pranksters weakness is that it doesn't work on the dark type, so a dark tera type porygon2 will be scary (it also has acces to foul play). And Amoonguss with a dark tera type, can laugh at the taunt of Whimsicott.
Interesting analysis though is it really worth it? Keeping the Fighting weakness on Porygon2 :Porygon2: and because of download, I'd say P2 :Porygon2: is far from passive and doesn't need Foul Play, Tera Blast or Tri Attack looks plenty strong. Never been big on Tera Dark Amoonguss :Amoonguss: because redirecting Flutter Mane :Flutter Mane: and Urshifu-Rapid-Strike :Urshifu-Rapid-Strike: is something it wants to do consistently.

And no one knows what Smeargle will do, it can also have the dark tera type. No one can predict this one, it can even revive a pokémon again with that reviving move that currently no one is using.

And Metagross will also end up high in the rankings. Metagross has now access to Knock off, Psychic Fangs (at last a great psychic stab move), Hard press (no idea how well this new move will be.) Metagross (with assault vest) might be a counter for Flutter Mane, I've got a feeling a bullet punch will finish it off.
Btw Smeargle :Smeargle: can't sketch revival blessing, Gamefreak saved us lmao.

Even Life Orb Metagross :Metagross: only has a 30% chance to ohko common Flutter Mane :Flutter Mane: spreads, I swear this pokemon's bulk is so deceiving. I can see Metagross :Metagross: doing some things but probably doesn't enjoy its current meta matchup.

TM227 Alluring Voice; will punish anyone raising stats
TM228 Psychic Noise; shuts down any healing, it would be a counter for porygon2 if it doesn't has the dark tera type.
TM226 Dragon Cheer; I haven't checked it yet, but it looks like something scary.

One thing for sure, the meta will be shaking up.
All of these look nice, though you're really underestimating Psychic Noise. It means Iron Hands :Iron Hands: can't even use Drain Punch! I think Farigiraf :Farigiraf: and Gothitelle :Gothitelle: can use this to disable an otherwise huge threat to their Trick Room teams.
 
I think Rhyperior is pretty underrated rn. Its bulk and offensive output make for a really good attacker under TR. I use this SD set with Rock Slide to be the most spammed move. I’m fairly new to this meta but how I see it, being able to attack 2 mons is usually better than one, Rhyp is very good at that. Rock Slide is such a good move in this Meta that you see Lando use it move than it’s STABs. H Arc makes great use of rock slide too, but it’s not as much of a sweeper as Rhyp can be. This mon is very Tera reliant in certain match ups tho, understandably so, it’s 4x weak to grass and water type. Urshifu and Oger are some of the best mons in the tier and will wreck you if aren’t Teraed or setup up in TR. Tera Grass allows you to eat hits from both of these mons and is a great overall defensive Tera type as the Fire Bug Ice and Flying types don’t want to take a Rock Slide. It also allows you to avoid Powder moves which is always handy. Tera Dragon is a solid choice too to resist the elemental trio. By using Tera to get out of that 4x weakness you also get more benefit out of Solid Rock. I partner this mon with Sinistcha or Ogerpon Wellspring. Sinistcha is able to redirect set up TR and Heal on switch in. It also keeps mons like Urshifu honest if they try to stay in on Rhyps Tera. Ogerpon is solely for redirection, but it’s high damage output and ability to take nothing from Water attacking is huge.

Id love to hear your thoughts on this mon and Trick Room in general. As I play more I see my self leaning toward trick room that trying to play the Prankster weather/tailwind wars.



Rhyperior @ Clear Amulet
Ability: Solid Rock
Level: 50
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 60 HP / 252 Atk / 196 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: / 0 Spe
- Swords Dance
- Rock Slide
- High Horsepower
- Protect
 
Last edited:
SOMEONE TELL WOLFEY THAT EGGY WILL BE VIABLE AGAIN

:sv/exeggutor:
Exeggutor @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Harvest
Level: 50
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 252 HP / 68 Def / 52 SpA / 76 SpD / 60 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Protect
- Psychic Noise
- Leaf Storm/Giga Drain/Whatever
- Sleep Powder/Stun Spore/Whatever

Recently, it was discovered that psychic noise blocks the healing of pollen puff if it's directed into an ally. Exeggutor is the only pokemon that is immune to spore, has stab, and can 2hko amoonguss (obviously depends on the set but I will provide calcs later). Eggy is guranteed to survive incineroar fake out and one pollen puff from amoonguss. Obviously being dominated by incineroar is horrible, but you can always beat incineroar with the right partners for eggy.

0 Atk Incineroar Fake Out vs. 252 HP / 68 Def Exeggutor: 18-22 (8.9 - 10.8%) -- possibly the worst move ever
4 SpA Amoonguss Pollen Puff vs. 252 HP / 76 SpD Exeggutor: 136-164 (67.3 - 81.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
52 SpA Exeggutor Psychic Noise vs. 236 HP / 84 SpD Amoonguss: 116-140 (52.9 - 63.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
 

Vinc2612

The V stands for VGC
is a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Dedicated Tournament Host Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9vgc2024regf-2017622217

I’m about ready to call it after this. Perish Song is busted. I don’t understand how game freak allows for this mechanic. What can you feasibly run to even beat this? Yea you can run Tera ghost on everything or taunt on every mon. This is half your team gone automatically it’s mad uncompetitive
First, good job on putting Archaludon there. It looks like a great option at taking the advantage from forced switches.

But about Perish Song on its own, you're forgetting U-Turn and Parting Shot as soft checks. Even use it on your own teammate if you want to bypass double protect. Those two moves, alongside the ghost typing (and Tera-Ghost), make it quite hard to actually get the kills from Perish Song
 
First, good job on putting Archaludon there. It looks like a great option at taking the advantage from forced switches.

But about Perish Song on its own, you're forgetting U-Turn and Parting Shot as soft checks. Even use it on your own teammate if you want to bypass double protect. Those two moves, alongside the ghost typing (and Tera-Ghost), make it quite hard to actually get the kills from Perish Song
Im the guy that got fked by Perish Song. Outside of Incin what top mons normally run pivot moves?
 

Vinc2612

The V stands for VGC
is a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Dedicated Tournament Host Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Im the guy that got fked by Perish Song. Outside of Incin what top mons normally run pivot moves?
Rillaboom, scarf Urshifu and Landorus-T, mainly.

Urshifu, Incineroar, Flutter Mane and Rillaboom are among the six most played Pokémon in Reg F. Two of them can always avoid being trapped, while U-Turn is a decent move on the two others, that are good even against non-Perish strategies
 

LovelyLuna

Lost in a life full of mistakes
is a Site Content Manageris an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9vgc2024regf-2017622217

I’m about ready to call it after this. Perish Song is busted. I don’t understand how game freak allows for this mechanic. What can you feasibly run to even beat this? Yea you can run Tera ghost on everything or taunt on every mon. This is half your team gone automatically it’s mad uncompetitive
As some have already said, teams can run multiple pivots right now. You can also outright ko Gothitelle :Gothitelle: or your Perish Song user before they are in deep trouble, which is even easier when you have Urshifu :Urshifu: who breaks through your attempts to stall. The following pokemon are direct checks to Perish Song.

Incineroar :Incineroar:, Flutter Mane :Flutter Mane:, Volt Switch Iron Hands :Iron Hands:, Urshifu-Rapid-Strike :Urshifu-Rapid-Strike:, U-turn Rillaboom :Rillaboom:, Gholdengo :Gholdengo:, Taunt Tornadus :Tornadus:, Urshifu :Urshifu:, Landorus-T :Landorus-Therian:, Taunt Whimsicott :Whimsicott:.

And some pokemon outright ohko you like Ogerpon :Ogerpon-Hearthflame: / :Ogerpon-Wellspring: (depending on if rain is up). So yeah you're pretty much guaranteed to run into Counters for Perish Song and why it fell off with the introduction of home.
 
A set I’ve had good results with lately.



Enamorus @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Contrary
Tera type: Stellar
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Play Rough
- Tera Blast
- Superpower
- Iron Head

It can be an early game softener or a late game cleaner. Stellar Tera Blast + Contrary makes it very difficult to stop. It’s not a tera sink though; Play Rough ohkoes Urshifu after some chip, +1 Superpower ohkos all but the most physically defensive Incineroar, and Rilla can’t do much damage to it. Iron Head is mostly filler, but it does ohko most Flutter Manes. You could also run Healing Wish in that slot.

Give it a try!
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top