UU Victim of the Week! (Week Twenty-Seven: Contrary Serperior)

[Bouff]

kso


Celebi @ Life Orb
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
Timid Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Giga Drain / Leaf Storm
- Psychic
- Earth Power / Dazzling Gleam


I'm not sure if this needs much explaining. Celebi sets up all over Crocune, especially since it doesn't care about Scald burns due to Natural Cure. Giga Drain is used mainly to recover off LO damage and the potential Scald burn, while Leaf Storm can be used if you just want to hit as hard as possible, pretty much annihliating a good portion of the tier. Psychic offers decent coverage since it hits most of the mons that Grass STABs resist, barring steel types. Speaking of which, Earth Power destroys the aforementioned Steel-types, as well as mons like Houndoom and Victini (assuming it wins the speed tie). Dazzling Gleam can be used to check non-scared Hydreigon, however.

 

[Eddie2013]

Gastrodon

Hard Counter

Item: Leftovers
Ability: Storm Drain
Nature: Relaxed/Bold
EVs: 252 HP/ 252 Def/ 4 SpD
Moveset: Earthquake/Earth Power, Scald, Toxic/Ice Beam, Recover

This set completely walls crocune and eats scald for breakfast thanks to its ability storm drain boosting its special attack by 1 when hit by a water type move. Since crocune only has the move scald to inflict damage to the opponent. You can also pressure suicune into going to using rest by using toxic. All in all gastrodon is an amazing counter to crocune.

 

[Ununhexium]

Quagsire is OU... Thats not even the reason to use it. Gastrodon completely outclasses it

 

[Eddie2013]

Quagsire is OU... Thats not even the reason to use it. Gastrodon completely outclasses it

Well the guy on the first page mentioned gothetielle so I thought it was Pokemon in General and not specific to the uu tier.

 

[CoolStoryBrobat]

Well the guy on the first page mentioned gothetielle so I thought it was Pokemon in General and not specific to the uu tier.

He said Gothorita, not Gothitelle. Gothorita's actually in the UU Metagame though it's in a much lower tier

 

[Eddie2013]

He said Gothorita, not Gothitelle. Gothorita's actually in the UU Metagame though it's in a much lower tier

Oh I'll change my post right now then.

 

[CoolStoryBrobat]

Alright...Frankly I wanna thank ALL of you for supporting the first week of this project, and I'm glad to see constant activity in favor of it! After poring over the entries I came upon the votes I plan to make for this week, and it was incredibly hard mainly cause most of you guys listed mons who technically qualify as hard counters to the exact set I posted though it's understandable why...not hard to counter something with only 1 attack move amirite

One thing though...I'd like you guys to specifically list if your set is a Check or a Counter. I'm aware most of you guys did but a number of you still didn't, and even though it's easy as dirt to tell, I just wanna keep the consistency. Especially in the future if I decide to use sets where there's a lot more flexibility involved, then gray areas will be a concern. So have in mind how you plan to use the set you listed, please and thank you.

Anyway, here's the results (Since everybody mainly focused on putting counters, a few of you guys who put "counters" are gonna wind up among checks):

Top 3 Counters to Crocune (no specific order):
Amoonguss by Calloflochie
Toxicroak by Swamp Link
Heliolisk by Ununhexium

Top 3 Checks to Crocune (no specific order):
Sableye by Michaeloche
Celebi by Bouffalant
Rotom-C by Eaglehawk

Based on the version of this in OU I actually would be able to leave a few spots blank if there was a shortage, but this was the first week and all, I felt like being nice. Next week (or this week I guess) I'm hoping to see the same results, if not better. Keep at it, people! If you didn't win last week, go for it this week! Our victim this week is one of our big newcomers who was voted to stay UU by literally all 12 council members. What counters it? What checks it?:

Lucario @ Life Orb
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Crunch
- Extreme Speed / Bullet Punch
- Swords Dance

Also, peep the slash on Extreme Speed and Bullet Punch. It's important!

 

[Bouff]

reserving gligar as a counter

edit: wow r00d swamp link, reserving defensive nidoqueen as a counter

 

[Swamp Link]

Because that's a pussy set that don't run no Iron Tail:

Hardest counter since me when I was with your mom.

Gligar @ Eviolite
Ability: Hyper Cutter
EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 Atk
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- Defog
- Roost

4 Atk Gligar Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Lucario: 230-272 (81.8 - 96.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Gligar: 116-136 (34.7 - 40.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

Alright, so you switch in as it uses Swords Dance, Earthquake once, it still can't 2HKO you so it doesn't matter what it does, and then you're going to want to Roost and let it die to Life Orb damage. Earthquake and Roost are basically all it needs to beat Lucario. Honestly, in a real game, I would probably just bring in Gligar and then U-turn, because that person would have to be pretty bad (or pretty good) to leave their Lucario in there. Defog is just a good move that Gligar's a good user of to support the team.

Edit: Holy shit no Bouffalant fuck off I was here first

 

[WoShiDavid]

Defensive Arcanine can counter Swords Dance Lucario as well.

Arcanine
Item: Leftovers
EVs: 248 HP, 252 Def, 8 Sp Def
Nature: Bold
Ability: Intimidate
~ Flamethrower
~ Morning Sun
~ Will-o-Wisp
~ Toxic

Can switch into Lucario as it uses Swords Dance, tank the incoming Life Orb Close Combat with Intimidate even with Stealth Rock (A +1 Close Combat does 54.3% - 64.2% with this EV spread and nature) and KO back with Flamethrower, which is guaranteed after the drop in defenses from Close Combat. Morning Sun to restore health, Will-o-Wisp to cripple other physical attackers and Toxic to cripple bulky waters on the switch, self-explanatory.

 

[Calloflochie]

Sableye @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spd
Impish Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Foul Play
- Recover
- Taunt

Physically Defensive Sableye, the Lucario counter :] Bring it in on anything Lucario has to offer, Will-O-Wisp, Taunt to stop it setting up anymore SD's then proceed to Recover until you feel comfortable enough to Foul Play which OHKO'es nearly 100% of the time after 1 Round of LO recoil + Burn after SR. Pretty simple counter, doesn't really require any prediction since it is immune to Lucario's main STAB in Close Combat. I will provide calcs just to show how heavily this mon beats the Lucario set mentioned.

Nice try Luke n_n

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb burned Lucario Crunch vs. 252 HP / 248+ Def Sableye: 95-113 (31.2 - 37.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
OR
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 248+ Def Sableye: 144-172 (47.3 - 56.5%) -- 26.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Since it can hit before the WoW lands but then the best it can do is hit with Crunch for 31-37% which after a priority Recover, Sableye is still sitting pretty at around 70% after Leftovers.
In Return
+2 0 Atk Sableye Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Lucario: 203-239 (72.2 - 85%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

So yeah, Sableye pretty well counters standard SD Luke + has the added bonus of not being too upset by Knock off from other Fighting Types (something that especially affects Gligar) and just generally fairs well in this Meta since Stall is becoming more prevalent and Sableye is a fantastic Stall Breaker.

 

[pokemonisfun]

are we to take into accoutn some things that counter sd luke are completely obliterated by Specs or NP luke?

 

[Bouff]

yes but it's not like brobat knows he can add more than one set instead of focusing on one specific one

 

[CoolStoryBrobat]

are we to take into accoutn some things that counter sd luke are completely obliterated by Specs or NP luke?

yes but it's not like brobat knows he can add more than one set instead of focusing on one specific one

You can but the idea is to focus entirely on one set. Yeah I am aware multiple sets can be posted, but the idea is to just keep it organized and prevent clutter. I'm mainly taking heed from the example of the OU thread where they decided to focus on one specific set. Like I said before, different sets have different checks and counters. Like say I put the set as this:

Lucario @ Life Orb
Ability: Justified
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Crunch
- Extreme Speed / Bullet Punch
- Swords Dance

+

Lucario @ Life Orb
Ability: Steadfast
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Aura Sphere
- Dark Pulse
- Flash Cannon / Vacuum Wave
- Nasty Plot

Now considering I got room for 3 checks and 3 counters for each set posted (and like I said up to 6 peeps win per week...and someone winning 2x in one week could be EZ farming for leaderboard points) it's VERY easy to get a ton of stuff posted, and a ton of chaos to result because people will start listing every single mon covering both sets. Course I could say "If you're posting Checks & Counters, choose only ONE set" but I guarantee no one's gonna really enjoy doing that. Or people might end up addressing one set more than another one since it's easier to list stuff for. I'd rather just keep it simple for the time being. And like I said I am aware each set has its own specific checks and counters as Hilarious mentioned, which is more or less why I'd rather do it one at a time. If I feel NP Lucario should be visited, I'll do that during later weeks or something. I just don't want a ton of clutter and chaos going off in this thread. Take some wisdom, brah

 

[KM]

Cobalion @ Chople Berry
Ability: Justified
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant/Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Stealth Rock
- Iron Head
- Volt Switch

(check, obviously)

There aren't really that many hard counters to SD lucario so I decided to bust out a little bit of a niche but nifty check in the form of Cobalion. With a Chople Berry, Cobalion can easily take a CC + Extremespeed even with no defense investment whatsoever.

252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Chople Berry Cobalion: 200-238 (61.9 - 73.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Cobalion: 44-53 (13.6 - 16.4%) -- possible 7HKO

If you pair it with something like a Slowbro and manage to bait out the SD/Crunch, that's even better. Crunch does miniscule damage to Cobalion and gives him a +1 Attack boost from Justified, and Close Combat from Coba forces Luke out.

252 Atk Cobalion Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Lucario: 408-482 (145.1 - 171.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

You have a lot of flexibility as far as the set goes. If you want, you can use Lucario as set-up bait and run an SD set with Iron Head and Stone Edge, or you can add some HP EVs, put taunt on there and replace CC with Sacred Sword. At any rate, Choplebalion is a nifty and unexpected check against a potent threat.

EDIT: Oh also Choplebalion isn't specifically tailored to Luke, it has a lot of use outside of it. For instance,

252 Atk Life Orb Mienshao High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Chople Berry Cobalion: 216-255 (66.8 - 78.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Cobalion Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mienshao: 253-298 (93.3 - 109.9%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Alakazam Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Chople Berry Cobalion: 176-208 (54.4 - 64.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Cobalion Iron Head vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Alakazam: 210-247 (83.3 - 98%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Infernape Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Chople Berry Cobalion: 135-160 (41.7 - 49.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Cobalion Close Combat vs. -1 0 HP / 0 Def Infernape: 334-394 (113.9 - 134.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

^ (i realize that nape can just flare blitz but A. it's not an OHKO either, and B. if given a choice nape will usually cc. either way, if both at 100% cobal will win)

 

[Ununhexium]

Not sure whether this is a check or counter, I think counter.

Nidoqueen (F) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 248 HP / 240 Def / 20 Spd
Bold Nature
- Roar
- Earth Power
- Sludge Wave
- Stealth Rock

Nidoqueen can take any attack Lucario has and hits back hard with Earth Power. While it is 2HKOed by an Adamant +2 Close Combat, if it comes in while Lucario uses SD, it can easily tank a hit and OHKO back after LO recoil. Without +2 Attack, Adamant Close Combat has ~50% chance to 4HKO. This counters it pretty hard. This is only not a counter if you switch in on a +2 Close Combat, so keep that in mind when using it. Finally, it can phaze Lucario out with Roar to remove its boosts.

calcs

Lucario Close Combat vs Nidoqueen
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 240+ Def Nidoqueen: 198-233 (51.6 - 60.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 240+ Def Nidoqueen: 99-117 (25.8 - 30.5%) -- 52.4% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Lucario Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 240+ Def Nidoqueen: 179-212 (46.7 - 55.3%) -- 71.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Lucario Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 240+ Def Nidoqueen: 90-107 (23.4 - 27.9%) -- possible 5HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery

Nidoqueen vs Lucario
0 SpA Sheer Force Nidoqueen Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Lucario: 266-314 (94.6 - 111.7%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Also OHKOes without SR with LO recoil

 

[michaeloche]

I would look for something that can take hits from Lucario and dish out some decent damage back. Despite being weak to Crunch, here's something that can do that:

Slowbro @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SAtk
Bold Nature
-Scald
-Psyshock
-Slack Off
-Fire Blast / Thunder Wave

4 SpA Slowbro Scald vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Lucario: 115-136 (40.9 - 48.3%)
4 SpA Slowbro Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Lucario: 117-138 (41.6 - 49.1%)

Both Scald and Psyshock can turn into potential 2HKOs with Life Orb or other residual damage; Scald becomes a guaranteed 2HKO in the event of a burn. Fire Blast can be used to finish Lucario off if Scald doesn't burn it. Thunder Wave doesn't really help Slowbro here, but it has other utility. Slack Off and Regenerator can keep Slowbro healthy.

Now, you may be wondering about that pesky Crunch weakness. Well,

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 299-354 (75.8 - 89.8%)

This means that Slowbro is a bit of a shaky check unless it gets a burn with Scald. A good portion of this depends on luck and timing, as well as hazard clearance to an extent (+2 Crunch is an OHKO after SR and a layer of Spikes). Still, all things considered, Slowbro can win under the right circumstances.

tl;dr Slowbro is a check to SD Lucario, albeit a bit of a shaky one.

 

[Bouff]

Im reserving Nidoqueen. Will write in a few minutes.

i already reserved it lol

Nidoqueen (F) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 248 HP / 236 Def / 24 Spd
Bold Nature
- Toxic Spikes / Stealth Rock
- Earth Power
- Ice Beam
- Roar

Basically, this thing can switch into the particular variant of Lucario that Brobat listed, tank a +2 Extreme Speed or Crunch, and OHKO back with a STAB Earth Power without investment. Not only that, but it can phaze out its boosts, and potentially poison another Pokemon due to Toxic Spikes.

nice fuking ice punch nerd

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 236+ Def Nidoqueen: 177-209 (46 - 54.4%) -- 5.9% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery

I'm not going to bother listing Crunch as it does the same amount.

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 236+ Def Nidoqueen: 133-157 (34.6 - 40.8%) -- 58.1% chance to 3HKO after Black Sludge reco

So yeah, try out physically defensive Nidoqueen, while it might get shrekt if you don't keep it healthy, it's better than fuking shit like bro w/o rocky helm l0l

 

[Ununhexium]

dammit sorry

EDIT: you had like 12 hours though...

DOUBLE EDIT: If it matters to you, I'll do Aromatisse

 

[CoolStoryBrobat]

i already reserved it lol

Nidoqueen (F) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 248 HP / 236 Def / 24 Spd
Bold Nature
- Toxic Spikes / Stealth Rock
- Earth Power
- Ice Beam
- Roar

Basically, this thing can switch into the particular variant of Lucario that Brobat listed, tank a +2 Extreme Speed or Crunch, and OHKO back with a STAB Earth Power without investment. Not only that, but it can phaze out its boosts, and potentially poison another Pokemon due to Toxic Spikes.

nice fuking ice punch nerd

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 236+ Def Nidoqueen: 177-209 (46 - 54.4%) -- 5.9% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery

I'm not going to bother listing Crunch as it does the same amount.

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 236+ Def Nidoqueen: 133-157 (34.6 - 40.8%) -- 58.1% chance to 3HKO after Black Sludge reco

So yeah, try out physically defensive Nidoqueen, while it might get shrekt if you don't keep it healthy, it's better than fuking shit like bro w/o rocky helm l0l

I like your Nidoqueen set (on paper; in practice I hate it because your stall team is a pain) but to Ununhexium's defense, you changed your reservation literally 3 times since you posted:

"Reservin Gligar--OH NVM SWAMP LINK IS A REAL LIFE NINJA ok reservin Slowbro HAHA NVM NICE +2 CRUNCH AFTER ROCKS alright I got it I'mma go Alomomomomomomola this time oh wait it doesn't even do anything back to luke okay okay I got it forreal I'm gonna post that gay Nidoqueen set I use on my stall team"

...

Just try to stick to whatever you decide to reserve next time so other people don't feel cheated. I'll accept it, but just food for thought

 

[Ununhexium]

not to mention the 12 hour hang time lol

 

[NGC-2024]

Doublade fairs well against physical Lucario.

Doublade @ Eviolite
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 Def
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Gyro Ball
- Sacred Sword
- Shadow Sneak
- Swords Dance

252+ Atk Doublade Sacred Sword vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Lucario: 258-304 (91.8 - 108.1%) -- 50% chance to OHKO / OHKO after LO Recoil
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Crunch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Doublade: 208-247 (64.5 - 76.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Or you could go a more defensive route with Max HP and Max Def
4 Atk Doublade Sacred Sword vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Lucario: 190-224 (67.6 - 79.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
plus
4 Atk Doublade Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Lucario: 64-76 (22.7 - 27%) -- 38.2% chance to 4HKO to KO after LO Recoil

And Luc does kinda sad damage to you, very rarely securing a 2HKO doing 50% - 59% at +2
2 swords is op

 

[kingmidas]

Hippowdown @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk/ 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Slack Off
- Whirlwind
- Stealth Rock
Counter to luke (will put in calcs later)

 

[Sleepless]

Presenting Scarf Chandelure as check :

Chandelure @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest/Timid Nature
- Fire Blast/Flamethrower
- Shadow Ball
- Energy Ball
- Trick

Scarf Chandelure is a great Pokemon in meta, regardless of Lucario's presence, as it threatens a great deal of the meta with it's STABs, an excellent coverage in grass and Trick to screw up with it's counters. The idea is to switch into Lucario while it SD's and out-speeding the next turn via Scarf (as long as it wasn't tricked away yet) and decimating via Fire Blast or the more accurate, Flamethrower. Chandelure fears not the +2 Luc as it's immune to the more common priority in Extremespeed and resists the less common Bullet Punch. Chandelure doesn't necessary needs to predict the Sword Dance as it can switch on Lucario's main STAB, Close Combat, and take no damage from it. However, if the Lucario predicts correctly the incoming Chandelure, it can nail it shut with Crunch, thus it is only a check.

Relevant Calcs :
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Chandelure: 90-107 (34.4 - 40.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Crunch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Chandelure: 242-286 (92.7 - 109.5%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Chandelure Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Lucario: 426-504 (151.6 - 179.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

[pom]

fuk (Forretress) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SDef / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Rapid Spin
- Stealth Rock / Spikes
- Gyro Ball
- Earthquake


So my kinda shaky emergency check to Luke is Forretress. EQ is pretty useful for Luke especially, but also to hit some other stuff that this thread isn't related to. I guess these calcs are all you really need. Stay healthy, switch in on anything as long as it's not already boosted, and bang it out with EQ. (Healing) Wish support is bretty helpful. Also the special set can OHKO a whole family of Forretress at once so watch out for that. This thing mostly beats Luke on surprise value.

252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Forretress: 142-168 (40.1 - 47.4%) -- 2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Forretress: 282-333 (79.6 - 94%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock (this is assuming a dance as you switch in. 43.8% doesn't look too good, but since you get a turn of lefties as it dances, you'll always live one.)

4 Atk Forretress Earthquake vs. -1 0 HP / 0 Def Lucario: 266-314 (94.6 - 111.7%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO