If I'm not mistaken (and I might as well be), that spread is just enough to outspeed Jolly Tyrantrum (and Jolly Honch, if that's a thing), so it wouldn't be considered Speed creep. That could prolly be an alternate spread for SD Hera if it doesn't mind the loss in power. I remember a similar one being used in BW2, I think by user Flare Blitz. It was 112 HP / 252 Atk / 144 Spe Adamant iirc. Obviously with Jolly Tyrantrum being a thing, outspeeding that might be necessary. However, you're merely four points short of outspeeding max Speed Adamant Hera (and other neutral base 85s), so you might as well add those to Speed.Hi, I'm not sure whether this is considered speed creep, but this spread:
266/Heracross/85/+Spe/144/0
is something I've seen on SD Heracross, mostly because it avoids being revenge killed by Scarf Mienshao and takes certain Scalds a bit better. The speed still beats both Adamant and Jolly Krow as well as neutral Porygon-Z before boosts. If this isn't a viable spread or shouldn't be added, could someone enlighten me on why? If it is, could we add it, because I think this is a threat to stall teams, so they'd probably like to beat it.
Explain what Timid Blastoise accomplishes and I'll think about it if it's worth it...typically it doesn't gain much from max Spe far as I'm awareTimid blastoise
Some heracross. Jolly tyrantrum. Timid nidoqueen. Defensive krook.Explain what Timid Blastoise accomplishes and I'll think about it if it's worth it...typically it doesn't gain much from max Spe far as I'm aware
Edit: Updated the thread a little bit, got rid of some of the Kingdra spreads that weren't 252 Spe (because Kingdra itself is barely used these days, even if those were on the analysis), added 208 +Spe Crobat, 252 +Spe Mega Aerodactyl, and 144 +Spe Heracross. Lemme know if I missed anything relevant/important.
If the Crobat one is outspeeding +1 adamant gatr it's 212+ not 208+Explain what Timid Blastoise accomplishes and I'll think about it if it's worth it...typically it doesn't gain much from max Spe far as I'm aware
Edit: Updated the thread a little bit, got rid of some of the Kingdra spreads that weren't 252 Spe (because Kingdra itself is barely used these days, even if those were on the analysis), added 208 +Spe Crobat, 252 +Spe Mega Aerodactyl, and 144 +Spe Heracross. Lemme know if I missed anything relevant/important.
Adamant Hera. I'll give you that but a large portion (basically every set not running CB...and probably even some variants of CB) do run JollySome heracross. Jolly tyrantrum. Timid nidoqueen. Defensive krook.
LOL I actually meant 212+. I actually put it up there as 212+ too, I just had a brain fart.If the Crobat one is outspeeding +1 adamant gatr it's 212+ not 208+
Eh I'm kinda not a fan of Scarf Heliolisk...in general Scarf Electric-types did poorly in UU, and Scarf Raikou barely even counted as half-decent. I mean it could be ok if anything but the viability comes into question cuz it actually fails to stop Crocune after a boost or twoIs 522/Heliolisk/109/+Spe/252/+1 worth adding? I don't know if Scarfed Heliolisk gets any use at all, but one thing I did notice is that it outspeeds the +2 Porygon-Z set you have listed, which +1 Ape and Cobalion do not. Of course, if its not viable, I guess it's probably not worth adding, just wanted to ask.
(Of course, my math could be all wrong and this post would be pointless)
max speed timid. I was trying out a water spout blast mainly as a lead and I wanted it to outspeed all nidoqueen and the common adament banded heracross that likes to lead off. Water spout kills so thats why i have it. Against some teams i wish i had modest tbh. Ooh it also outspeeds absol b4 mega and adament lucario. It out speeds modest rotom but i dont remember ever seeing modest rotoms. Speed if lead imoAdamant Hera. I'll give you that but a large portion (basically every set not running CB...and probably even some variants of CB) do run Jolly
Jolly Tyrantrum is cool but it's somewhat moot if they run Rock Polish/DD. Though Ice Beam/Aura Sphere does still OHKO so I'll give you that
Isn't the concept of Timid Nidoqueen just a major instance of speed creeping in itself? Aside from Jolly Tyrantrum and ensuring you never lose to other Nidoqueen, what else are you getting the jump on because you lose a lot of power by running Timid
And...Is Defensive Krook still used? I think that one is also kinda moot...Arguable, but you legit never see it these days lol.
And assuming I actually did go through and put this on, are we talking max Spe Timid Blastoise (to outrun neutral Feraligatr/tie with +Spe variants) or just enough to beat +Spe 71s?
I understand the feelings towards Adamant Mega Bee, but I figured if you were up against anything slower than normal Bee, such as Suicune, defensive Rotom forms and any of the other wall-ish Pokemon in the game, it wouldn't hurt to know how normal Bee stacks up against them in terms of speed. This would mean you wouldn't HAVE to go for Protect against them and just U-Turn out of there, and proceed to use Protect later on in the match to scout opposing Choice item users.Adamant Mega-beedrill isn't really a thing and regular beedrill doesn't need its regular speed stat as literally all beedrills run protect to get the speed. Absol is a different case as you could want something to beat it pre-mega considering it doesn't run protect.
Added.I'm sure Adamant max speed Mega Beedrill should be included here, unless I'm stupid and out of the loop and Adamant isn't good in UU. It hits 389 speed.
389/Beedrill-Mega/145/Neutral/252/0
Also, it should be a good idea to list normal Beedrill's speed as well, since normal Absol has its base speed posted. This will help players gauge how fast normal Beedrill is compared to everyone else before it megas. It basically has the same base speed as normal Absol (75, which is 243 Adamant, the same as 148 Spe Suicune and 273 Jolly), so you could just include normal Beedrill wherever normal Absol is located.
Worth consideration but I want some others to testify to the viability of Agility Lucario first. Sounds fun at first but how worthwhile is it?I think Agility luke 252 speed adamant can be added (it run 558 with agility) he can outspeed thinks like Mienshao scarf jolly, Espeon scarf timid, 108 bs scarf+nature and some others thinks
Haven't had a chance to try it out myself, but here it is being used in UUPL finals, blunder v aim: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-uu-64103Worth consideration but I want some others to testify to the viability of Agility Lucario first. Sounds fun at first but how worthwhile is it?
well it was a ct. Blunder didnt think aim had iron tail and he didnt want damage on aggron because it blocked slurpuff sweep so he sent in crobat thinking aim only had crunch.Haven't had a chance to try it out myself, but here it is being used in UUPL finals, blunder v aim: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-uu-64103
Far as Venomoth goes, I recall jjoshcja saying something about a Venomoth set/spread that had like 216 Spe or something? Enough bulk to take a Scald from something at +1...Can't quite remember, so I'm gonna tag him for his input as to whether it should be added. Smeargle, though, I dunno if anyone would use a set that isn't running max Spe given how slow Smeargle already is, but I haven't used it so I guess any other input regarding it would be welcome.Defer to my signature for Scarfbat's speed tier.
Also, have Venomoth and Smeargle (at varying speeds) been added to the tiers yet? Are there particular Veno sets that don't run max speed?
Smeargle should always run 252 Speed EVs and a positive nature on the hazard set, and no other sets are currently viable at the moment so yeah it should be 252+ on the Speed TiersSmeargle, though, I dunno if anyone would use a set that isn't running max Spe given how slow Smeargle already is, but I haven't used it so I guess any other input regarding it would be welcome.