Serious US Election Thread (read post #2014)

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"Trump will definitely start a nuclear war"
Trump's a rotten egg in quite a few ways, but he's nothing if not selfish. He has nothing to gain from a nuclear war. So he won't start one.
He might not start it, but it is extremely likely he will provoke someone else into starting one. And he might have a lot to loose from it, but hey, at least he and his family will be safe in the bunker, and there will be nobody left to stop him from playing dictator.

And for those who are still on the fence about voting for Trump: if this doesn't knock you off the fence from voting for him, then you're lost. My father would have a harsher description, but I'm not him.
If things go well here, I might also at least post this on my Facebook page too.

She can claim that she was against the Iraq war, but she has 4 years as secretary of state that doesn't help her case that she was fooled into voting for the Iraq war.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Hillary appointed Secretary of State way after the Bush Regime, and thus the Iraq War vote? Notwithstanding the fact that we can't prove/disprove that she was fooled or not.
I don't understand the point you're trying to take.

On an interesting note, she was the one who convinced Obama to take out Bin Laden, and was with him when he was, you know, taken out.
 
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She can claim that she was against the Iraq war, but she has 4 years as secretary of state that doesn't help her case that she was fooled into voting for the Iraq war.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...lary-clinton-over_us_57930be0e4b0e002a3134b05
I will pick a post that people can't claim is biased for this one. Even the huffington post claimed the election was rigged.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/jul/24/debbie-wasserman-schultz-immediately-joins-hillary/
That is something you do after they helped rig an election for you.
You claimed that Hillary actually ordered the primaries to be rigged in her favor. But not only do none of your sources actually support this assertion, but what the Democratic Party has been caught doing is small fry compared to the lawsuit that Cliff Arnebeck is attempting to carry out to force the fact that she not have won, but simply coronated to the position of Democratic nominee.

The fact that awful bitch had joined the Hillary campaign is fishy, but hardly a smoking gun you could use in a court of law. All we know for certain is that the Democratic Party establishment definitely wanted Hillary as their nominee.

Umm Libya?
So you're saying that the interference in Libya was a repeat of history?
 
You claimed that Hillary actually ordered the primaries to be rigged in her favor. But not only do none of your sources actually support this assertion, but what the Democratic Party has been caught doing is small fry compared to the lawsuit that Cliff Arnebeck is attempting to carry out to force the fact that she not have won, but simply coronated to the position of Democratic nominee.

The fact that awful bitch had joined the Hillary campaign is fishy, but hardly a smoking gun you could use in a court of law. All we know for certain is that the Democratic Party establishment definitely wanted Hillary as their nominee.


So you're saying that the interference in Libya was a repeat of history?
My sources are considerably pro Hillary, if I wanted to list the other sources about the election fraud that occured I would, not to mention the fact that super delegates long since destroyed any notion that the Democrats cared about who they nominated. Wasserman Schultz is the head of the DNC, if Reince Priebus did anything like this, he wouldn't have a job in politics and rightly so, why on earth would Clinton put her on her campaign staff?

The notion that there will be a smoking gun is also ridiculous. They never found the murder weapon that killed Nicole Brown and Ronald Goldman, so how on earth could we know they were stabbed? The fact that Hillary has been shrouded in controversy and has escaped criminal charges despite committing a crime should say all that needs to be said about her believably at this point.

Libya is just one of many poor choices Hillary has on foreign policy issues. And for starting WW3, I would expect that to come from China and North Korea initiating something. Perhaps dealing with the South China Sea might be a problem
http://www.businessinsider.de/us-step-up-china-south-china-sea-2016-9?r=US&IR=T
http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Columns/2016/07/25/Why-Clinton-s-China-Policy-Puts-More-Risk-Trump-s
Kind of weird seeing as they took bribes from China before
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...faces-Congress-quiz-arrested-FBI-bribery.html

The middle east is terrible now after her tenure
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...department-during-middle-east-chaos/87582276/
And she even has an Iran-Contra scandal of her own
http://theduran.com/julian-assange-...ns-collection-proves-sold-weapons-isis-syria/

So no, claiming to be against the Iraq war after voting for it doesn't fly
 
My sources are considerably pro Hillary, if I wanted to list the other sources about the election fraud that occured I would, not to mention the fact that super delegates long since destroyed any notion that the Democrats cared about who they nominated. Wasserman Schultz is the head of the DNC, if Reince Priebus did anything like this, he wouldn't have a job in politics and rightly so, why on earth would Clinton put her on her campaign staff?

The notion that there will be a smoking gun is also ridiculous. They never found the murder weapon that killed Nicole Brown and Ronald Goldman, so how on earth could we know they were stabbed? The fact that Hillary has been shrouded in controversy and has escaped criminal charges despite committing a crime should say all that needs to be said about her believably at this point.

Libya is just one of many poor choices Hillary has on foreign policy issues. And for starting WW3, I would expect that to come from China and North Korea initiating something. Perhaps dealing with the South China Sea might be a problem
http://www.businessinsider.de/us-step-up-china-south-china-sea-2016-9?r=US&IR=T
http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Columns/2016/07/25/Why-Clinton-s-China-Policy-Puts-More-Risk-Trump-s
Kind of weird seeing as they took bribes from China before
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...faces-Congress-quiz-arrested-FBI-bribery.html

The middle east is terrible now after her tenure
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...department-during-middle-east-chaos/87582276/
And she even has an Iran-Contra scandal of her own
http://theduran.com/julian-assange-...ns-collection-proves-sold-weapons-isis-syria/

So no, claiming to be against the Iraq war after voting for it doesn't fly
Unfortunately, we have to use evidence that can be used in a court of law against Hillary, not conjecture. And later on, O.J. Simpson was found liable in a civil trial. Which is different from accusing Hillary of rigging the primaries. Proof was found to make Simpson liable. What about Hillary?

And we knew that Nicole Brown and Ronald Goldman were stabbed, just not by Simpson until after the trial when new evidence was found. That is of course another story, and does make the Double Jeopardy regulation controversial.

But that really isn't related to the primary fraud.

And the while idea that Clinton's confrontational policy with China leading to a nuclear war can't be ruled out (it never can when you're dealing with an aggressive nuclear power), it's far less likely than what might happen with a Trump administration. Anyone who questions why we don't use nukes if we have them does not deserve to have control over them. If he launches a pre-emtive strike on North Korea or Iran, they might be wiped out, but they might also be able to retaliate. And God help us if China or Russia steps in, respectively. Or Russia's detection system, which only functions due to duct tape and a prayer, might mistake an attack on Iran or North Korea as a launch headed towards them, and they might make a snap decision (since nobody trusts The Donald), and attack us, we'll of course retaliate, and it will be the end of civilization.

And it is possible that she lied abut being against the Iraq War after evidence came up that the Bush Administration had faked the evidence of WMD's, but short of drugging her with truth serum and finding out, it's conjecture.

And while Bill might've taken money from China indirectly, there doesn't seem to be anything linking her to that. Like I've explained to my father, for better or worse, Hillary is not Bill.

And if any administration is responsible for the creation of ISIS, it is the Bush administration. The campaign into Iraq and removal of Hussein might have removed a tyrant, but he did keep the region stable, and by removing him from power, it created a power vacuum for ISIS to later rise up from the remnants of Al Qaeda.

To Hillary's credit, leaving troops in the region might have stemmed or prevented the rise of ISIS. The Obama administration might have it's issues, but ISIS is not completely it's fault, it inherited the beginning of it. At worst, the Obama Administration made a mistake by not keeping troops in the region when Al Qaeda began a rebound, and not supporting the Syrian rebels while there were still groups that might adopt some of our beliefs and values if they could overthrow Assad. I would not have backed down from my threat when Assad used chemical weapons on civilians.

Libya was a mess. When Gadaffi began using force against his citizens who no longer wanted him in power, it probably seemed ethically right at the time to intervene and help, since they were trying to do something not unlike what we did to form our country. Too bad the transitional government rejected the offer for helping to peacefully transition as planned by Obama and Clinton. This is of course the conclusion I've formed based on what I know.

Now, if these e-mails implicating Hillary Clinton in shipping weapons to would-be terrorists in a CIA plot to overthrow Assad are real (and in spite of my issues with Wiki-Leaks and Assange, I also trust this is not a bluff), then this is as serious a scandal as Trump University, Scotland, and Trump Foundation combined (though I don't want to decide if this is more disturbing than Trump's ignorance regarding the concept of MAD). If anyone were to say that this is a form of treason, I couldn't disagree.

One could even speculate this was part of a plot to create/revive a viable threat in order ensure that the dialogue for ending security measures like the NSA's mass surveillance program would be avoided by the mainstream media for this election year, so the intelligence community could continue to spy on us unchallenged. Unfortunately, it is only speculation, and I can't prove that.

Let us lament once again that there is no indication that any of the candidates other than Trump or Clinton will be President though.
 
We're already in a police state.
Could be worse. At least it can be repealed, and is starting to get attention. Giving the police any more authority will only make that even more difficult. It also gives the bad cops to more excuses to shoot us dead with no repercussions, except for when it blows up again like in Dallas, and you have frustrated individuals just acting like cops: deciding to act like judge, jury, and executioner, all rolled in one. If you looked at a cop the wrong way while frisking you, they might shoot you dead, and come up with some excuse, like saying they were reaching for their firearm.

Again, it's just creating an even bigger environment of cop vs. armed citizen violence, and disturbance of the peace. I'm sure that there are those who want to make civil lawsuits against cops illegal and accusations against cops tantamount to slander. Then you'll have a complete police state.

In other words: when we get to the point that we can't even protest against police brutality safely, then we'll be in REAL trouble!
 
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TheValkyries

proudly reppin' 2 superbowl wins since DEFLATEGATE
"When" we can't even protest police brutality safely? A man was literally shot and killed by police for protesting police violence just over an hour ago. Tear gas and riot tactics developed in the gaza strip have been the standard fare against these protests for two years.

Honestly when you say "it can be worse" all I can say is look the fuck around. This shit is happening right now and just because you can somehow conceive of something being worse doesn't make what's going on right now any better.
 
We're a far cry from a police state. Our police force is not barging into homes to investigate families for spouting hate speech being enemies of the state. We have a bill of rights.

BUT yes our police force is far too quick to use lethal force in a lot of cases. Tulsa shooting is a horrible, perfect example. Why every cop isn't wearing a camera yet is beyond me.
 
"When" we can't even protest police brutality safely? A man was literally shot and killed by police for protesting police violence just over an hour ago. Tear gas and riot tactics developed in the gaza strip have been the standard fare against these protests for two years.

Honestly when you say "it can be worse" all I can say is look the fuck around. This shit is happening right now and just because you can somehow conceive of something being worse doesn't make what's going on right now any better.
according to this, a civilian shot him, but more info is needed for this anyway so waiting is optimal so you can get through the bullshit. those "protestors" are just rioting anyway, shitting on their own protests yet again in a hypocritical manner. police do need more bodycams tho, i agree.
 
He might not start it, but it is extremely likely he will provoke someone else into starting one.
Trump is extra inflammatory to be sure. Nothing diplomatic about him whatsoever. But since when did the MAD doctrine stop being applicable?
People were saying the same stuff about Reagan, since he was willing to label the Soviet Union as the Empire of Evil. Yet instead of the nuclear apocalypse that the liberal priesthood prophesied intelligentsia predicted...we actually won the Cold War.
 

TheValkyries

proudly reppin' 2 superbowl wins since DEFLATEGATE
according to this, a civilian shot him, but more info is needed for this anyway so waiting is optimal so you can get through the bullshit. those "protestors" are just rioting anyway, shitting on their own protests yet again in a hypocritical manner. police do need more bodycams tho, i agree.
Man fuck that I saw people live tweeting that it was the cops, even the goddamn clergy in the room protesting with the group say it was the police. Also tired of this "can't riot" bullshit when the police move on to escalate the situation the second people gather to protest. And again pointing out that the group with the man who was shot was protesting with clergy present so forgive me for saying that calling them rioters is bullshit. Tired of the fake fucking narrative from the police and tired of people believing their fucking lies especially when their lies can be verified as lies.

Man and what are cameras going to do anyway? Terence Crutcher was shot by a cop who had 3 officers back up and a police helicopter with a camera circling over head because she was more afraid than shed ever been. Cameras do not make police less afraid of black people. Cameras don't stop the shooting. All cameras do is just show their constant lies. And time and time again if catching these cops on camera has proven anything it's that no one cares. This is a tired fucking cycle of constant pain and then tons of knights in shining armor coming to champion the poor defenseless police from people calling them out on their blatant violence.

How many fucking videos of dead bodies do we need to see before we see a "good cop" arresting one of the "bad cops". Everyone just wants to put all these things in their little box of "oh no how sad about the bodies filled with cop bullets but these black people shouldn't be expressing pain for this happening again and again and again and again in that way they should protest peacefully like MLK did" ignoring that a. These all start as peaceful protests before cops show up to escalate with riot gear and tear gas and ignoring b. MLK WAS FUCKING SHOT TO DEATH FOR WHAT HE DID.

FUCK this tired old shit.
 
the dude couldve very well been shot by the police but more evidence than just tweets is needed, gotta match all their statements, collect evidence, etc. linking me some of it would be nice. also just taking the clergy's word doesnt mean shit without evidence. i also dont get how looting stores and destroying yoir own neighborhoods is good your "peaceful cause." "yeah, let's fuck up our own neighborhood and say that the police pushed us to do it." bullshit. not taking responsibility for your actions is bullshit. having the bodycams proves who's lying and who's telling the truth, not providing protection. prove that all these shootings were racist for me would you? also whites get shot more. also, police, on occasion, do arrest other officers, google dui stop, police stops police or some shit.
 
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Shrug

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this is the result of 50 years of straight racism being treated as something both parties could agree on. the war on drugs and law and order politics are racism passed into law. the creator of the law and order appeal in its modern form: George Wallace. the creation of the war on drugs: meant to discredit "hippies" and blacks - the same people targeted by law and order. where once there were fire hoses there is now riot gear - now you have authority, both rhetorical and physically manifest. the actions they provoke - riots - are then used as a justification to increase security and force to put down the next riot they provoke at the cost of lives. and no one cares. the war on drugs does the exact opposite of its stated aims but is pacifying to the Real American Family, which means it is not wrong nor hyperbole to say White comfort comes at the cost of Colored (used as in "people of color") blood.

idk why people say that bodycams matter. hint: in these situs, it's never "it went down exactly like the cops said", more often "theres a dude running away who gets murdered" yet ive yet to see an indictment. funnily enough, the cops threatened to go on strike as a result of kaepernick's protest, yet all of the world's good cops have not said a word in condemnation or even sorrow for the murders that occur daily by them without repercussions. im curious, when did the cops become a force for overwhelming good, en masse, save a few troublesome killers who no one speaks out against? was it when bull connor rode around in a white tank siccing dogs and using water cannons? or when the LAPD beat a man to near death on camera and went unconvicted? was it when the threat of brown and black faces meant local sherrifs bought and ride in army tanks today? or when police in Ferguson gasses protestors to near death and went unquestioned?

I know two kids who want to become cops. one already dislikes black people and one does not (dislike them). but what happens when they train every day for a military grade threat, then are told that threat can be anyone in a specific neighborhood they dont live in, a place where all the faces are of color? then theyre told who theyre defending is the good people who live near them, need defending from the threat. all of these people in need of police are white. theyll put on, every day, body armor - like theyre going to war. theyre told they are the thin blue line between a group of people who are all threats (who are all black, unstated) and a group of everyday citizens who are all good (and all white, unstated). the latter group will defend them no matter what - why not? the only result of equitable policing is their loss. i fear by the time the kids i know are done, every man they see who looks askance at them or suffers misfortune near them or otherwise behaves without proper deference will become, to them, a big bad dude, the threat theyre at war against. and then that big bad dude will die but no one will care. and this makes me really sad
 
fuck fucking fucking fucking fucking FUCKING FUCK
Let's be civil now
Cameras are going to expedite the administration of justice. Cases will be much more open-shut. Bad cops get caught way faster, good cops get acquitted way faster. The police forces that *have* actually deployed chest cameras have had MASSIVE decreases in police brutality cases.

Police would probably be "less afraid of black people" if it wasn't for the fact that--despite blacks making up a mere 13% of the U.S. population--blacks are responsible for 40% of the cop killings in the last ten years. A cop doesn't need to be a statistician to know that interactions with blacks are much more likely to result in his own death than interactions with whites.

(Does this count as "fake fucking narrative" yet?)
 
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Trump is extra inflammatory to be sure. Nothing diplomatic about him whatsoever. But since when did the MAD doctrine stop being applicable?
People were saying the same stuff about Reagan, since he was willing to label the Soviet Union as the Empire of Evil. Yet instead of the nuclear apocalypse that the liberal priesthood prophesied intelligentsia predicted...we actually won the Cold War.
Reagan was right to call the Soviet Union for what they were. If the Russian generals or premier threatened to launch a nuclear strike end the world under such a petty insult, not only would they be proving Reagan's point, but the Russian population should have overthrown their government by whatever means to prevent such MADness!

The problem with Trump is that he doesn't understand the MAD doctrine. Even if he cited the definition, at this point, I would only trust he just read the description on Wikipedia or something. And it is still very applicable, and considering that most countries will be afraid of Trump, we Americans shouldn't be willing to give him a chance use a nuke just because he thinks it might be a good idea. I mean, he asked three times "why don't we use nukes if we don't have them" three times for God's sake"! He clearly doesn't understand that our nuclear ordinance is a bluff, or to be used in an unlikely scenario, like an extra-terrestrial invasion. They are not meant to be fired, because if the circumstance calls for them to be fired, it means the shit is about to hit the fan!

Oh, and Russia's nuclear detection system is outdated and functions poorly. A strike on ISIS or North Korea might be mistaken for an attack by the Kremlin on the Russian Federation, and you can bet your rarest Pokémon that they won't trust Trump as much as they would Hillary to do something as harebrained as making a preemptive strike on Russia!

He is not getting a chance to get the nuclear codes, end of story. And I'm sure that there are millions of Americans who feels the same! If he is allowed access to those codes, WW-III will be very likely. I already said how it could happen. He might not cause it on purpose, but you can be sure he won't give a shit if you or me end up dead or dying of radiation poisoning. I feel so strongly about this, that if he wins without the popular vote, every single person who is against him should demand that he not have access to the nuclear football. Who should is up for debate, but not Trump. I feel to do otherwise is suicide. Hopefully, Trump won't win the election, and this won't become an issue.
 
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Thanks for the link!
Since the campaign is walking back the comments, it means that this is (yet another) foreign policy issue that Trump is ignorant on, but actually willing to take advice about. If the campaign is abandoning the position, Trump (probably) isn't looking to use nukes. More likely, he's just being a blowhard, which is one of his main "talents".
 
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