Unpopular opinions

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

As far as the actual intrinsic group who follow a specific set of rules, talking about the 600 group/pseudo-legendary stuff, they've always followed three rules:
- Three stage
- 600 BST in final form
- Slow EXP group

Game Freak and TPC do acknowledge that particular group outside of the fan terms, even having a dedicated merchandise set to them.

They're practically always self-contained in one generation as a dedicated pattern of Pokemon that they intentionally create.

Archaludon is interesting because it's now a case of something that's similar to the classic pseudos in one way, but I wouldn't say it was the first: it just makes itself similar to the actual group in a different way and is the first to be so in its particular way, this one being that it has 600 BST.

There have been, in fact, several other Pokemon in generations before that have been "mistaken for the group" for many years since they are similar to the actual group in other ways. Chief among them are Flygon, Aggron, and Haxorus. Especially these three in particular, where they are similar in at least other ways, being three-stage Pokemon, two of them being Dragon-type and having late evolution levels, and two being in the Slow EXP group. Haxorus and Aggron in particular have been notoriously similar to the classic "pseudo-legendary" group in that they evolve twice and are in the Slow EXP group and both end up very powerful late-game mons.

Slaking, Volcarona, and Gholdengo also are sorta similar to the pseudos in other ways. Volcarona and Gholdengo are similar to each other but are both two-stage mons in the Slow EXP group with 550 BST that are "special" in different ways and are sandwiched between the classic pseudo-legendary in their roster (Hydreigon and Baxcalibur respectively) and the main sub-legendary group (Swords and Treasures) in the dex order. Slaking is a three-stage Slow EXP mon who ends up with a very high BST.

So in a way, Archaludon isn't really part of the intentional classical group, but it does join the leagues of Haxorus, Aggron, Slaking, Volcarona, etc. in being oddly similar to them, just in a new way, this time being its BST as opposed to the others having lower BST but being three-stage and/or in the Slow group. So Duraludon has become, in its own way, another Axew or Trapinch or Aron in that regard.

 

[QuentinQuonce]

I'm just surprised that anyone is expecting there to be an adherence to solid structures and rules at this point.

This is a series which routinely breaks its own patterns and rules - which for the most part seem to exist in the heads of the players, not the designers - and tells us stuff that even the very next set of games will outright contradict or overrule. And the amount of broken trends at this point should just make that point more apparent.

Even in cases where there's a uniformity or design rule that's followed, there are usually exceptions. Take baby Pokemon as an example. They are, uniformly, unable to breed and were all initially nonexistent in the wild. The former point has been consistently upheld over time but the latter was contradicted after just one generation. Any other attempt to solidly group them fails - they're not uniformly weaker than other species, and they don't all get moves their evolved forms otherwise can't.

I'm actually surprised that the so-far established pattern for psuedos - initial 300-BST stage, mid 450-BTS stage, final 600-BST stage - lasted for seven whole generations (outside of the fact that it's a gameplay decision which makes them harder to raise). Because outside of that, there's nothing that really links them. They're not all Dragon-types, they're not always offensively inclined, they're not always used by the final boss of each game, there's not even always one of them per generation or a new one per region. There really is no solid pattern beyond their positioning as the strongest non-legendary in each region which, obviously, has to be occupied by something.

So while I'm totally prepared to say Archaludon probably isn't formally considered one of the group (because it is one that's officially acknowledged) I'm also completely prepared for Game Freak to turn round and go "actually it is". Because they say so.

 

[Coronis]

Archaludon is not a pseudo legendary. But its also definitely part of the 600 club. ez solve

 

[Axiemeister]

i feel like a lot of the drive behind the archaludon as a late bloomer discourse is people wanting to rationalise it having 600 bst (without a drawback ability), when maybe we should just acknowledge that this is only a thing for the fandom. archaludon has 600 bst as a regular mon, and it's fine. clearly their biggest motivation was "tyranitar has 600 bst so its rival must have 600 bst too people need to know we are OBSESSED with kaijus" anyway.

 

[Dive Missile]

i think archaludon is probably the latest bloomer of them all considering it took 3 years to evolve. makes all the other pseudos look like a bunch of phonies

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

Archaludon is not a pseudo legendary. But its also definitely part of the 600 club. ez solve

This definitely feels like it.

Despite the classic "late bloomer" group being intentional and easy to identify the actual fan terms both fandoms have used for years before the "Late Bloomer" term was coined by TPC/Game Freak for the actual classical group are pretty broad in that regard.

The "600 club" term was always less flexible to a point where things like Haxorus, Flygon, and Aggron are easily not part of it, but Archaludon being a 600 BST mon could easily be considered part of it.

"Pseudo-legendary" on the other hand has always been a fairly broad term in a vacuum, which is why many in the western fandom have "considered" Pokemon who do bear similarity to the classic late bloomer group to be them. As I said, Aggron and Haxorus in particular are scarily similar to the late bloomer group despite ending with a lower BST. Aggron was even version exclusive counterparts with Tyranitar in X and Y. Haxorus is a three-stage Dragon that levels up slowly, and two of its previous stages do share similar BSTs to some late bloomer pre-evolutions, Axew's 320 BST is similar to the relatively newly introduced Frigibax, and Fraxure's 410 BST is shared with a number of late bloomer mons' middle forms. Flygon and Haxorus are both considered very similar to the pseudos because they're three-stage Dragons with high evolution levels, and in some ways have been more popular than their generations' actual "late bloomer mon".

I do feel, however, that the actual late bloomer group we've identified for years is an intentional pattern they create on purpose, akin to starters and the major cover legendaries. The ones who follow the trend established by Dragonite do follow a lot of similar trends, but also deviate from each other in several ways, much like the cover legends who follow in Mewtwo's footsteps and the Grass/Fire/Water starters who are all modeled after the formula Venusaur, Charizard, and Blastoise established. Considering the classic "late bloomer" group is often mingled in the dex alongside sub-legendaries and legendaries towards the end of the dex, which those two groups are consistent recurring trends, it is however probably one of three particularly clear and identifiable "archetypes" they do on purpose.

"Late Bloomers" does feel like the most fitting term for the classic group, however. Especially when you consider this:

https://pastebin.com/PKdUMxpW

(Above are the evolution levels of each generation's roster of Pokemon. You can see the commonality of the "late bloomers" in terms of where they fall in their gen's roster in that regard).

 

[Kin+ak (✧∇✧)]

Hey Gallade should get a buff again. Like, idk, 115 speed. itd be great! If hydrapple and dustox no-buff exist, why gallade shouldnt gget bst increase?

 

[pika pal]

I do feel, however, that the actual late bloomer group we've identified for years is an intentional pattern they create on purpose, akin to starters and the major cover legendaries. The ones who follow the trend established by Dragonite do follow a lot of similar trends, but also deviate from each other in several ways, much like the cover legends who follow in Mewtwo's footsteps and the Grass/Fire/Water starters who are all modeled after the formula Venusaur, Charizard, and Blastoise established. Considering the classic "late bloomer" group is often mingled in the dex alongside sub-legendaries and legendaries towards the end of the dex, which those two groups are consistent recurring trends, it is however probably one of three particularly clear and identifiable "archetypes" they do on purpose.

Is this a bad time to mention Garchomp just chilling in the middle of the Sinnoh Dex, Goodra the Kalos section, and Hydreigon being before the Larvesta line (which is the last non-Legendary set) in Unova?

It's weird because they basically broke the Pokedex-placement pattern for those 3 gens, resumed it for 7 and 8 (disregarding DLC species which by nature just kind of jump on the end of their region's section), and then 9 got weird with Baxcalibur in between the "lesser" Paradoxes (which are debatable Legendaries in function), followed by Gholdengo (the 1000 Pokemon with a weird encounter and evo method), the minor Legends, "Boss" Paradoxes, and then Mascots.

 

[Eriorguez]

Am I the only one who got heavy Nidoran vibes from the Aron line? That, and Rhyhorn/Rhydon vibes from Lairon and Aggron.

 

[Esserise]

I may be getting the totally wrong impression here, or maybe there’s just bad wiki citation involved, but on the Japanese Pokémon wiki that Bulbapedia’s page about pseudo-Legendaries links to, its page about the “600 club” has a section further down talking about other stat-based groups, and it seems like each of these clubs is just “those Pokémon with these stat totals.” Like there’s a “690 club” but it’s literally just… Eternatus. But for some reason the “600 club” is the only one that excludes things like Mythicals, Legendaries, and Megas.

Again, I’m relying on the web translator here so I could easily be interpreting it all wrong (and please correct me if I am), but the sense I get is that the notion behind these stat clubs isn’t quite describing the same thing as the notion of pseudo-Legendaries, which is more about a particular character design trope.

 

[Bakugames]

Again, I’m relying on the web translator here so I could easily be interpreting it all wrong (and please correct me if I am), but the sense I get is that the notion behind these stat clubs isn’t quite describing the same thing as the notion of pseudo-Legendaries, which is more about a particular character design trope.

its more of a trivia of pokemon with the same high base stats yes, probably just connected After the 600 club became a common jp fandom term hence why theres no actual rules on it vs what consists a 600 club member

 

[JJGameOn]

My Pokemon hot takes (if you disagree that's fine)
1. Gallade is cooler then Gardevoir.
2. I like Garbodor. (mainly because of the BW anime)
3. Psyduck is lame. (yea kill me)
4. The Galar starters are not bad. (except for Rillaboom, he's stupid)
5. Mega Charizard Y looks too much like Charizard.
6. Braviary is cooler than Staraptor.
7. Quaquaval is the worst starter of all time.
8. I like Unova.
9. Galarian Moltres is the coolest Pokemon in a legendary trio.
10. I don't hate Gholdengo.

 

[DrPumpkinz]

Stop. The 600 club is not the pseudo-legendary club.

You're right Bakugames it is funny

 

[Sonikku A]

My Pokemon hot takes
3. Psyduck is lame.

Listen here you little shit /j

Ok, ignoring my justified spat, this entire convo of noticing patterns makes me feel GF should attempt more varied progression and mon encounters. The open world format of Paldea is messy, though still partially based on older progression

By this I mean;
-Early bug sucking ass (exception of Venipede line)
-Ice types being late game
-Early Normal/Dark and Flying lines with iffy mid to late game use (Swellow, Staraptor, and Talonflame being exceptional)
-Ghost being mid to late game

And others I missed. Cuz this all partially ties to power creep as well. Despite shit like Palafin Hero being straight up broken for 1v1 battles (player end*) or Paradox mons, you still awkwardly have weakass mons in the other end that'd choke in Gen 4 UU. Heck, something like Tinkaton is weak enough to fit nicely in Gen 1-3 without breaking the game balance given its frailty

Now the one "pattern" that'll be and should be kept regardless is the Fire-Water-Grass starter trio. They are needed for new players to figure the type rock-paper-scissors format integral to the franchise. Fangames are free to shake it up though, most aren't for newer players

Ultimately the main thing Pokemon needs to address is reducing "throwaway" mons that sour over the course of the game. And I don't mean mons intentionally terrible (Farfetch'd, Magikarp before evolving, Dunsparce, etc), I mean the early routers that only are good the first 3 gyms. They do this, bosses will be better balanced because they'll have to keep the later game mons closer in strength to early route. And then Legendaries can be stronger than either

Similarly, GF needs to better support defensive playstyles, almost everyone just mashes A on strongest move

 

[Eriorguez]

We shouldn't have gotten Let's Go Eevee; they should have gone with Let's Go Clefairy instead.

We need more superficial gender differences, a bunch of the ones from beta DP were great (thinking about Pinsir for instance; stag beetles have far smaller mandibles on females)

 

[Axiemeister]

they either should go back and add all the minute gender differences they haven't bothered with One (01) Generation after debuting the concept, or bite the bullet and pretend they never existed and keep only the 100% dimorphic ones. this "gender differences still exist just not for post-sinnoh mons" situation is nonsensical.

 

[Altissimo]

-snip-

what on gods green earth is this post

 

[Coronis]

what on gods green earth is this post

“Don’t do drugs” not even Pokénip

 

[QuentinQuonce]

what on gods green earth is this post

Hey, I was going to write that!

 

[Bakugames]

You're right Bakugames it is funny

told you man, its gonna plague people for years and im going to be a little evil jester about ir

 

[AztecCroc]

told you man, its gonna plague people for years and im going to be a little evil jester about ir

Until they put out a new wave of merch based on them anyway.

 

[Blue glass]

Don't worry, TPC will give Archaludon a baby in gen X so it can be officially considered a late bloomer. It will be an obelisk.

 

[Kin+ak (✧∇✧)]

I noticed some repeating traits that have been mentionned before so just to make sure No one is fooled (maybe Im alone Then)
Little Normal type early game
-rattata
-sentret
-zigzagoon
-bidoof
-stupid pee-colored mouse
-bunnelby
-yungoos
-wooloo
-lechonk

Little Dark type early game
-poochyena
-purrloin
-alolan raticate somewhy
-nickit
Not every gen has one, But it's a noticeable one.

Little bird early game
-pidgey (not spearow)
-hoothoot
-taillow
-starly
-pidove
-fletchling
-pikipek
-rookidee
-(wattrel) Im not quite sure cause it's not that early game

annoying asf bug that ends up shit most of the time
-caterpie(weedle isn't real)
-spinarak
-wurmple
-kricketot
-sewaddle
-scatterbug
-charjabug
-blipbug
-tarountula (is earlier than nimble and respectsf the "ends up shit" criteria)

Pika clones (hot takes are always funi)
-pikachu
-pichu
-minunplusle
-pachirisu
-emolga
-dedenne
-togedemaru
-morpeko
-pawmi

Mimikyu, marill and such are not pika clones. Sry

 

[Bakugames]

Until they put out a new wave of merch based on them anyway.

unless theyre dying for an archaludon holding a frigibax plush I dont think thats gonna be so soon, considering they have better moneymakers like ogerpon, pawmot, the 3 dog lines (why is there so many dogs)

 

[Worldie]

(why is there so many dogs)

spoilers: puppies sell