Metagame Ubers Metagame and Set Discussion v2 - Pokemon Home Edition

[Magcargo]

anyways, dumb HO I built in -2 seconds.

Stole this team and I gotta say, Azelf feels like complete cheeks. 115 isn't fast at all in a meta w/ Miradion and Koraidon + a bunch of Arceus Forms that outspeed it and it has some other sussy MUs like vs lead Cloyster (which is a real pain since you have to taunt it so it doesn't Shell Smash, but then you just get OHKO'd by Icicle Spear). I don't really find it to be a good tempo setter, just more of a dead slot since it usually just sets up Rocks and dies. I swapped over to Lead Mew since it is bulkier, letting it run Red Card, has Spikes, and can Transform to scout for the opponents moves. Tera Normal lets it potentially cheese Calyrax.

Mew @ Red Card
Ability: Synchronize
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 1 Atk
- Spikes
- Stealth Rock
- Taunt
- Transform

Unfortunately, Mew lost Explosion in the generational shift, so its probably not the best lead either. I'm wondering if there is a more optimal lead exist, particuarly one that doesn't completely fold to Miraidon ideally.

 

[I am New]

Stole this team and I gotta say, Azelf feels like complete cheeks. 115 isn't fast at all in a meta w/ Miradion and Koraidon + a bunch of Arceus Forms that outspeed it and it has some other sussy MUs like vs lead Cloyster (which is a real pain since you have to taunt it so it doesn't Shell Smash, but then you just get OHKO'd by Icicle Spear). I don't really find it to be a good tempo setter, just more of a dead slot since it usually just sets up Rocks and dies. I swapped over to Lead Mew since it is bulkier, letting it run Red Card, has Spikes, and can Transform to scout for the opponents moves. Tera Normal lets it potentially cheese Calyrax.

Mew @ Red Card
Ability: Synchronize
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 1 Atk
- Spikes
- Stealth Rock
- Taunt
- Transform

Unfortunately, Mew lost Explosion in the generational shift, so its probably not the best lead either. I'm wondering if there is a more optimal lead exist, particuarly one that doesn't completely fold to Miraidon ideally.

There is sash kleavor and samurott they do solid damage to mirai while setting hazards.

 

[Bittersweet-8]

Regieleki @ Choice Scarf
Ability- Transistor
Tera Type- Ice
EVs
4HP-252SpAtk-252Spe
Adamant Nature
IVs- 0Atk
Moves-
Tera Blast
Thunder/Volt Switch
Electro Ball
Rapid Spin

Regieleki excels at dealing the most damage in the shortest amount of time. Electro Ball is a must have because of how speedy this thing is, it’s easily able to take down other frail mons like Calyrex-Shadow, Zacian-Crowned and Iron Bundle and to deal even more damage, the Choice Scarf speeds Regieleki up by 1.5x. Tera Ice helps Regieleki deal with threats like Garchomp, Rayquaza, Miraidon and Landorus while putting pressure on threats like Amoongus and Clodsire. Thunder works on teams involving Kyogre and Pelliper where it has 100% Accuracy while Volt Switch is an all round excellent pivoting move, getting out of risky situations. Rapid Spin is the best move for Hazard Control, which nullifies Spikes, Stealth Rocks, Toxic Spikes, and Sticky Web.

Defensive Pokémon such as Kyogre and Clodsire are great teammates for Regieleki, giving a great switch in for Volt Switch. With Kyogre’s Drizzle, Regieleki’s Thunder is 100% accurate and is a real threat when it deals with Iron Bundle and certain Arceus. Specially Offensive Pokémon such Calyrex-Shadow, Miraidon and Rayquaza are real threats to Regieleki, Calyrex-Shadow and Zacian-Crowned can extinguish those threats and also deal with the likes of Urshifu, Koraidon, and Flutter Mane. Dialga counters Regieleki with Earth Power and setting up Trick Room, which obviously isn’t ideal for the likes of Regieleki, Urshifu is the perfect counter for Dialga, as it walls any Protect or Substitute spam. All round Regieleki is a versatile Pokémon that works on the spectrum of Fast and Defensive teams

 

[Sahvyt]

Is the Legend Plate still dummied out? Is tehre any reason to believe it will be made available in the future?


On another topic, Eternatus lost Eternabeam.

We can only pray it's not, the existence of Arceus-Legend in competitive would probably get it quickbanned from AG lol.

Also rip Eternatus and Calyrexes, needlessly nerfed by GF

 

[bdt2002]

Hey look, another post that looks like a meme but I’m actually being dead serious about. Just hear me out, okay? What if I told you that this tier’s biggest problem right now wasn’t Koraidon, Miraidon, Calyrex-Shadow, Zacian, or any of those other threats? But instead, it’s this stupid thing.



Ditto @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Imposter
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Transform

In an extremely volatile metagame dominated by hazard spam and hyper offense cores, Choice Scarf Ditto stands out to me as one of those kinds of “gimmick strategies” that actually gets stronger as power creep elevates as opposed to weaker, much like Baton Pass or something like Light Clay Screens support. Speed kills in this format, and the ability to gain a second copy of one of Ubers’s overwhelming offensive threats lets teams with Ditto exploit their opponents’ need to send in their win condition thanks to how Imposter has always worked.

For any newer fans that happen to see this post, Imposter is Ditto’s signature hidden ability introduced in Gen 5 that allows Ditto to immediately transform into the opponent’s Pokémon without needing to spend a turn actually using Transform. In theory, this was the perfect buff for a Pokémon like Ditto, but in practice it creates a lot of 50/50 situations due to copying all of the target’s stats except for HP. Since held items stack with Transform’s effects, this means that, outside of Trick Room, a Choice Scarf Ditto will always outspeed the Pokémon it turned into no matter what unless said Pokémon is also holding a Choice Scarf, at which point the matchup once again becomes a 50/50.

Historically, Imposter Ditto has never had a reason to be banned from any tier, but I feel like the current state of Gen 9 Ubers puts this little guy in a unique position. The last thing this already egregious metagame needs is for Ditto to force even more luck- asked scenarios into a game-to-game setting. I’ve already had multiple games where my opponent will switch in their Ditto after my Calyrex-Shadow gets a KO and hits +1 Special Attack, leading to their own Ditto-turned-Calyrex sweeping my entire team. What makes this even scarier is that the opponent could still have their own actual Calyrex-Shadow waiting in the wings that could try and Terastalize at any moment. Feel free to say what you want, but I can’t possibly imagine how Ditto is helping the metagame more than hurting it.

Okay, so, uh, change of plans. As I was writing this, I wasn’t aware of the Ubers council going ahead with tiering action for Calyrex-Shadow this quickly, which “unfortunately” (like that’s a bad thing) renders at least half of this post irrelevant. All of that being said, I still think Choice Scarf Ditto creates problems in a Speed-heavy Ubers metagame with Terastalizing still allowed at this point in time. So instead of just deleting my previous post, I’m going to leave this reply here as an archive of sorts and then delete it. This way, you (other users) can still read about my thoughts on Ditto without having Calyrex-Shadow’s presence in said post causing confusion post-quickban.

My apologies for the inconvenience, everyone

 

[AM]

Ditto is always going to feast in a metagame that is dominant in hyper offense or one where the most centralizing things are set up mons, ORAS Xerneas and Ekiller is an example where ditto is a good pick there. Any metagame where Ditto is viable your team should be Ditto proofed. Ditto isn’t a problem, the problem would always be something else in the metagame.

 

[Local Dog]

It frustrates me to no end that Lando-I lost Gravity. Grav, EQ, Sludge Wave Lando was probably my favorite set to use in Ubers, setting up a niche move and game condition and then going brr was very satisfying

 

[LouisIX]

"hey louis why all of your team has giratina-O?"
"Gira-O is my dad and it is your dad and it is everyone's dad and the proper way to be good is have your dad watching your back"

 

[I_Am_Wrenellen]

Don't play this meta, but I wonder if Calyrax Shadow will be busted now. Even without Tera, Calyrax benefits massively from Yveltal being gone & tera let's it completely bypass the few remaining checks like Tyranitar. Maybe Tera Normal/ Dark mons can rise up as checks, but it's hard to say.

I think Sucker Punch on Kingambit (I think its still usable in Ubers but I might just be dumb) and Shadow Sneak on Giratina-O will be good checks. Still its still definitely rly strong, others checks could be focus sash on TR setters and also Glowking can be Ev-d specifically to take a hit
For Example:
252 SpA Calyrex-Shadow Astral Barrage vs. 252 HP / 188+ SpD Slowking-Galar: 332-392 (84.2 - 99.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

[wesh papillon]

https://pokepast.es/09e7156fc385b846

I got reqs with this

is it optimal? prob not! but hey it works kinda lol

In this HO infested meta I think stall def has its place (side note: wow this tier is terrible holy shit), but I wouldnt say its anywhere close to HO in therms of viability overall ( honestly I just wanted to use skeledirge)

Caly def has to go, and for what its worth I think tera is (mostly) fine

anyways have fun stalling on ladder!

 

[Magcargo]

https://pokepast.es/09e7156fc385b846

I got reqs with this

is it optimal? prob not! but hey it works kinda lol

In this HO infested meta I think stall def has its place (side note: wow this tier is terrible holy shit), but I wouldnt say its anywhere close to HO in therms of viability overall ( honestly I just wanted to use skeledirge)

Caly def has to go, and for what its worth I think tera is (mostly) fine

anyways have fun stalling on ladder!

If this team is able to be successful in Ubers with monsters like Miraidon and Calyrax-S, imagine how OP it is in OU.

What is Tera Steel Corviknight for?

 

[wesh papillon]

What is Tera Steel Corviknight for?

I like never tera the corv anyways so I never bothered to change it lmao

 

[Wooper Person]

Wanted to shed some light on a very underrated guy rn, that being
Specifically, this set:
blinding lights (Corviknight) @ Rocky Helmet / Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Impish Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Roost
- Defog
- Body Press
- Iron Defense

With hazard control being sparse (Tusk stocks are dying ) and Ekiller everywhere, I started to use this set on a few teams.
And it's like.. really really good rn, one of the most concrete answers to Ekiller and can help deal with Zacian and Koraidon (if tera'd)
Letting Calyrex in for almost free is a pain, just use Alolan Muk but I've found that being quite literally one of the only hazard control options rn more than makes up for it.
It's not really splashable per say, but on more defensive teams it's fits really well.
I've leaned towards Tera Poison since it's the only tera which allows you to beat Zacian-C + Koraidon (if you Iron Defense as they hit you with CC / Flame Charge / etc), at the expense of being weaker to Arceus-Ground.
Corviknight is flying high right now, and with the eventual departure of it's gonna become even better!

Sidenote: Use Rest Groudon + Blissey, it's super good, once again specially on fat teams (like this one that I've been using).

 

[PivotsMan]

Wanted to shed some light on a very underrated guy rn, that being
Specifically, this set:
blinding lights (Corviknight) @ Rocky Helmet / Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Impish Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Roost
- Defog
- Body Press
- Iron Defense

With hazard control being sparse (Tusk stocks are dying ) and Ekiller everywhere, I started to use this set on a few teams.
And it's like.. really really good rn, one of the most concrete answers to Ekiller and can help deal with Zacian and Koraidon (if tera'd)
Letting Calyrex in for almost free is a pain, just use Alolan Muk but I've found that being quite literally one of the only hazard control options rn more than makes up for it.
It's not really splashable per say, but on more defensive teams it's fits really well.
I've leaned towards Tera Poison since it's the only tera which allows you to beat Zacian-C + Koraidon (if you Iron Defense as they hit you with CC / Flame Charge / etc), at the expense of being weaker to Arceus-Ground.
Corviknight is flying high right now, and with the eventual departure of it's gonna become even better!

Sidenote: Use Rest Groudon + Blissey, it's super good, once again specially on fat teams (like this one that I've been using).

In Natdex Ubers, Giratina Rest+ Chansey is so really good.

 

[Taka]

In Natdex Ubers, Giratina Rest+ Chansey is so really good.

Chansey’s lack of Toxic here and the existence of Miraidon makes it a lot harder for this core to thrive. I think Blissey definitely is viable and has some niches but Chansey feels mostly outclassed thanks to how prevalent Spikestack is at the moment.

On that note, what are some defensive cores you guys are liking right now?

 

[1LDK]

On my journey to become a guy who can do something good in his life, I have decided that a quick trip to Ubers would be funny, and there, I encountered fauna never before seen in my homelands, so I wanna ask you all natives of this underexplored world

1) what are the meme sets)

2) aside from Calirex-Shadow, what are supposed to be the top dogs or mons that should I try to prepare for

In a meta where I dont have to worry about incoming bans that are gonna kill my meme teams, I think Im could stay here for a while

Also in my second game An Iron Moth crit hit my groudon with hurricane on sun please end the pain

 

[Celestiial]

https://pokepast.es/09e7156fc385b846

I got reqs with this

eyyy i used this to get reqs asw, I was sent it by a friend but didn't know who made it originally. Very fun team!
the tldr of my experience getting reqs tho was that it really feels like every game is on the edge of calyrex shadow just cleaning through, whether my opponents or mine via ditto. It just feels so centralizing that almost every team either has it or is an answer to it and Tera lets it bust through some of the teams that answer it anyways, with a bit more ease then it probably should.

Im p new to this meta so that may not like be entirely correct but its the vibe i got, happy suspecting everyone !

 

[Sahvyt]

Hey guys so apparently there's a bug (which might be an intended feature) in S/V where Bleakwind, Wildbolt, and Sandsear Storm all have perfect accuracy in rain
If GF confirms this to be a feature Lando-I might be obscene with Kyogre, due to it getting, under rain, a 100BP Sheer Force (+ Life Orb)-boosted STAB with perfect accuracy. Same goes for both Torns and Thuns but not as impactful since they don't get Sheer Force

EDIT: Note that Enamorus and Enamorus-Therian's Springtide Storm is, strangely, not affected by rain.

 

[Mewthreee]

View attachment 520418

now we gotta run nasty plot

also this tier is fun because i can spam legends and win, now give me the legend plate

 

[Harmless]

You know who I've been having a lot of good times with? Why Zacian of course! No, not zacian crowned, zacian normal person!



girl power! (Zacian) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intrepid Sword
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Play Rough
- Close Combat
- Wild Charge
- Crunch

This outspeeds just about every non psychotic choice scarf eleki on the block. Ig you also get outsped by scarf shadow rider but I have a hunch that he won't be sticking around. Losing the extra attack sucks but it still hits hard enough and has a lot of fun targets, such as the billion dragon types running around. Not having a ground weakness is also a decent perk, even if losing poison immunity/normal resist is an anti decent perk

 

[OreoSpeedruns]

2) aside from Calirex*-Shadow, what are supposed to be the top dogs or mons that should I try to prepare for

*Calyrex :nerd:


Imo the best mons post-Caly are , , (Ground and Normal) , , and .


To avoid this being a one-liner, here’s some less good, yet still popular and/or good mons to look out for.

• is always good at the start of an era to revenge kill broken threats, and this is crucial while is around in the tier.
• is decent to take on the myriad of physical threats, especially and .
• is a great spiker and check to . Not much more I can say, it’s a vanilla good mon.
• I’ve seen or used as a suicide lead with Stealth Rock and Steel Beam decently commonly, though this seems more on the gimmicky side to me.
• is still a great mon, especially with its newly gained Will-O-Wisp and Spikes. Keep in mind when using it defensively that it lost Roar and Dragon Tail, so it can’t phaze. However, it’s still pretty good.
• On the topic of , it’s a great scarfer with Water Spout to rip open basically everything, and this makes for a nasty pairing with , who got Last Respects. Turns out being reliant on one of the best mons in the tier isn’t that much of a drawback.
• and are the best leads, for its Prankster dual screens and for its great hazard stacking with Toxic Debris, and this is a meta with very scarce removal and a lot of physical threats.
• Speaking of removal, is by far the best option for its Spikes and Toxic Spikes immunity. However, it also has the invaluable ability to counter (Ground and Normal), which is ferocious with its newly gained Dragon Dance. is immune to Extreme Speed and Earthquake and takes less than half from +1 Shadow Claw, and in return it can burn with Will-O-Wisp and phaze with Dragon Tail.
• is more uncommon, but it does have its place. It walls , especially behind screens, and can Shed Tail on it. Even if the carries Taunt, can Body Press on it. It can do the same against mons like and , and behind screens, it can do the unthinkable and set up on Intrepid Sword boosted , taking about 40% from Close Combat.

Btw if you want an intriguing lead try . Untauntable Spikes that go through Magic Bounce while destroying leads with Brick Break and Taunt while being untauntable for thanks to its Dark typing WHILE threatening , the best removal in the tier, with Taunt and Ceaseless Edge.

 

[JT’s Idol]

Thoughts on Flutter Mane as a revenge killer? It can outspeed Calyrex-Shadow with Booster Energy in addition to a vast majority of the metagame, while being immune to Extreme Killer Arceus.

I use a set of:
Booster Energy
Tera Fairy
Timid, 252 SpA and Speed, 4 SpD
Moonblast
Shadow Ball
Mystical Fire
Calm Mind

It puts in work, especially paired with Koraidon.

 

[KrookKing]

Have had this idea in my head for a while and wanted to spill:
Rayquaza Lum/Silk Scarf
252atk 252speed Adamant
Tera Normal
Swords Dance
Dragon Dance
Extreme Speed
Shadow Claw/Dragon Claw/Dragon Ascent (not sure if it made the cut)

At first it looks kinda weird, I mean DDance when you are already going for priority moves, why not Swords Dance?
I put both cause it could depend on what you are fighting, IE being able to boost your speed just in case while still boosting your power, especially for stuff like Flutter Mane/Koraidon, or you can Swords Dance on slower teams and go in with E-Speed.
Shadow Claw was a move I was considering cause it hits Flutter SE as well as having a high critical chance against Skeledirge (Lum Berry helps too against it). But if you got ghost coverage already then Dclaw can still get the job done.
Sure being pretty much a Linoone in play style kinda cringe but I feel like it can work with the right team.

 

[OreoSpeedruns]

Thoughts on Flutter Mane as a revenge killer? It can outspeed Calyrex-Shadow with Booster Energy in addition to a vast majority of the metagame, while being immune to Extreme Killer Arceus.

Caly is gonna get banned in a few days so that‘s not really relevant long-term. However, Flutter’s biggest problem is that while it can outspeed a majority of the metagame, it fails to actually revenge kill much. It is too weak to KO common Pokémon like Arceus, Kyogre, and Eternatus. Kyogre is particularly ruinous as it shuts down sun that Flutter desperately wants to actually outspeed Pokémon that it needs to outspeed. Flutter isn’t bad, and it matches up well into certain teams, but I think it’ll be much less common post-Home.

 

[Miyami~~~]

https://pokepast.es/09e7156fc385b846

I got reqs with this

is it optimal? prob not! but hey it works kinda lol

In this HO infested meta I think stall def has its place (side note: wow this tier is terrible holy shit), but I wouldnt say its anywhere close to HO in therms of viability overall ( honestly I just wanted to use skeledirge)

Caly def has to go, and for what its worth I think tera is (mostly) fine

anyways have fun stalling on ladder!

I got reqs with this over an agonizing amount of games, the team was very good! it helped me learn the tier a lot since I got to see and figure out how to answer a bunch of sets and sorta figure out what does what. I wanted to do a rundown of the relatively few things that actually give this team serious trouble:

Boosting Grounds: this is by far the biggest category of problem since they scare out dirge and quite a bit of them pack the ability to deal with corv. I only saw it once mercifully but SD Fire Punch Groudon clean swept my whole team. You can tera dirge to live a hit but given that you usually need dirge's actual typing to help with things like ekiller and zac-c. DD Taunt Groundceus is also a problem since it does break corv eventually, and CM Groundceus with Ice Beam was a 6-0 from the start. While it's less common, Ursaluna ohkos corv at +2 with tera normal and can break the entire team afterwards. You have to play incredibly carefully if they have the ability to break corv, as nothing else on your team can handle grounds well at all.

CM Arceus: These beat Blissey with recover since SToss isn't a 3hko. If you can't status it will sweep you, and by the end of my laddering I ended up just whirlwinding it out with ting-lu and trying to deal with it later. There are way too many permutations to list them all but if it has earth power or is groundceus it's an absolute nightmare to deal with. You can't even ditto profitably because judgement doesn't change type with ditto. You have to play really heads up and try and get and keep a tspike up, which is pretty tough to do when pex gives groundceus a free switch anyways.

Ghost Caly: duh. It doesn't matter since this thing isn't ever staying in the tier at this point but even with ting lu and blissey and ditto this thing can still sweep you with the right set. Trick psyshock was awful to deal with and usually led to a dead mon and trying to revenge it with ditto. I found a trick psyshock leaf storm caly that almost felt tailor made to beat this exact team. That being said the amount of times I let something die then went ditto and swept the whole team in reverse was probably only a little less than the amount of times I got swept, so mixed bag here.

Also it's probably not super relevant but specs tera water water spout kyogre 2hkod my tera water umbrella blissey after rocks and that was shockingly strong

overall, thank you for the team! Hopefully it worked as well for you as it did for me.