Thundurus (Rejected: 3/3)

[Empress]

Thundurus
QC: 0/3
GP: 0/2

Overview
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+ Access to Prankster Thunder Wave makes Thundurus very effective against offensive Pokemon that rely on their Speed
+ Has Taunt to shut down faster entry hazard leads such as Deoxys-S, and to differentiate himself from Klefki
+ Possesses solid base 125 offensive stats with just right amount of coverage he needs to become an offensive threat
+ Checks Mega Salamence extremely well
+ Volt Switch provides momentum for Thundurus's teammates
- Very frail with mere 79 / 70 / 80 bulk
- Most variants of Primal Groudon shut Thundurus down
- A weakness to Stealth Rock combined with Life Orb recoil wear Thundurus down very quickly
- Faces competition as a Prankster user from Klefki, which is bulkier and can set entry hazards

Prankster Attacker
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name: Prankster Attacker
move 1: Thunder Wave
move 2: Taunt / Grass Knot
move 3: Volt Switch / Thunderbolt
move 4: Knock Off / U-turn
ability: Prankster
item: Life Orb / Focus Sash
evs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
nature: Naive

Moves
========

- Thunder Wave cripples the speed of offensive foes such as Xerneas and Arceus
- Taunt prevents setup sweepers from boosting and stops leads from setting up entry hazards. It is especially useful due to the decreasing popularity of Magic Coat
- If you are not leading with Thundurus, Grass Knot gives him a fighting chance against Primal Groudon, 2HKOing most offensive variants
- Volt Switch is actually decently powerful factoring in the boosts from STAB and Life Orb, and is great at maintaining momentum
- Alternatively, Thunderbolt is a more powerful STAB attack that does not force Thundurus out of the battlefield
- Knock Off removes foes' items and 2HKOes Latios and Latias
- U-turn can be used to pivot out of a matchup with Primal Groudon, which is something that Volt Switch cannot do. The move also deals significant damage to Latios and Latias

Set Details
========

- Maximum investment in Speed and Special Attack in addition to a Naive nature allow Thundurus to hit as hard and as quickly as possible with all hit moves
- Prankster gives priority to Thunder Wave and Taunt, allowing Thundurus to move before faster foes such as Deoxys-S
- Life Orb boosts the power of Thundurus's attacks, maximizing his offensive capabilities
- Alternatively, Focus Sash allows Thundurus to function as a solid anti-lead by surviving a single powerful attack. However, Thundurus generally prefers the offensive boost that Life Orb provides

Usage Tips
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- Thundurus should only be switching in on predicted Ground-type moves and status moves due to his frailty
- Makes a great anti-lead because of access to Taunt to shut down opposing entry hazard setters
- Offensively, Thundurus is a usable late-game cleaner because of his high Speed
- If you predict the opponent will switch Pokemon, cripple the predicted switch-in with Knock Off if Thundurus can deal with it, or Volt Switch out if he can't in order to preserve momentum. Keep in mind that Primal Groudon blocks Volt Switch because of its Ground typing

Team Options
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- A Stealth Rock setter such as Dialga can help Thundurus get crucial KOs that he may miss otherwise, particularly against the Offensive Stealth Rock, Rock Polish, and Physically Defensive Primal Groudon sets
- Support from Primal Kyogre is appreciated to destroy Primal Groudon, or at least to force Groudon out of the battlefield
- Mega Gengar can be sent in via Volt Switch to trap a troublesome foe
- Dialga checks the Grass- and Electric-types that wall Thundurus
- Works well alongside Genesect to form a fast VoltTurn core
- An entry hazard remover such as Excadrill can help keep Stealth Rock off your side of the field in other to keep Thundurus as healthy as possible

Other Options
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- Toxic gives Thundurus an alternate way to cripple setup sweepers and defensive Pokemon, and the move wears down Primal Groudon
- Hidden Power Ice reliably OHKOes Mega Salamence, Landorus-T and Rayquaza
- Thundurus can become a setup sweeper with Nasty Plot, but he is frail and fails to outspeed many common offensive threats such as Arceus and Darkrai, meaning he will struggle to sweep
- Focus Blast can be used to hit Excadrill, Ferrothorn, and Kyurem-W for excellent damage
- Leftovers add to Thundurus's overall longevity, but he needs as much power as possible and is too frail to make use of passive healing

Checks & Counters
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**Primal Groudon**: Primal Groudon dominates many Pokemon in the Ubers metagame, and Thundurus is no exception. Thundurus fails to reliably 2HKO Primal Groudon with Grass Knot without the aid of entry hazards, and Thundurus gets OHKOed back with a Stone Edge or a sun-boosted Fire Punch.

**Electric-types**: Though Electric-type Pokemon are not as common in Ubers due to the presence of Primal Groudon, Pokemon such as Zekrom and Electic Arceus are nonetheless immune to Thunder Wave and take pitiful damage from most of Thundurus's attacks.

**Ground-types**: Landorus-T, Excadrill, and Ground Arceus can survive a Grass Knot from Thundurus and OHKO him back with a Rock-type attack. Landorus-T must be careful of Hidden Power Ice, however.

**Fast Offensive Pokemon**: Although no offensive Pokemon enjoys taking a priority Thunder Wave, powerful sweepers such as Mega Gengar, Darkrai, and Mewtwo can 2HKO Thundurus without being OHKOed back. As all three aforementioned Pokemon are faster than Thundurus, you must spend a turn using Thunder Wave and rely on the foe being fully paralyzed for Thundurus to defeat his foe.

 

[Lemonade]

I know this is WIP but ye

IMO HP Ice is kind of bleh. Lando-T is pretty uncommon, and Mence and Ray don't really want to face Thundy anyway because Prankster TWave and stuff. TBolt also 2HKOes offensive variants of both of them. And Thundy can live their unboosted STABs once.

I think Knock Off and Naive does more since HP Ice does 0 to Soul Dew Latis, though they may not switch in / stay in either because TWave and Taunt. Naive so your pitiful defense goes a bit farther vs. Flying. Unforunately Grass Knot doesn't do real damage to Groudon anymore but you can't touch it with anything else either

Overall though this mon is pretty iffy, it's almost just a Prankster TWave which Klefki does better, but whatever

 

[Empress]

I know this is WIP but ye

IMO HP Ice is kind of bleh. Lando-T is pretty uncommon, and Mence and Ray don't really want to face Thundy anyway because Prankster TWave and stuff. TBolt also 2HKOes offensive variants of both of them. And Thundy can live their unboosted STABs once.

I think Knock Off and Naive does more since HP Ice does 0 to Soul Dew Latis, though they may not switch in / stay in either because TWave and Taunt. Naive so your pitiful defense goes a bit farther vs. Flying. Unforunately Grass Knot doesn't do real damage to Groudon anymore but you can't touch it with anything else either

Overall though this mon is pretty iffy, it's almost just a Prankster TWave which Klefki does better, but whatever

I think you are right about HP Ice and Knock Off. I've made edits accordingly. What Thundy has over Klefki is much better offensive presence and access to Taunt.

 

[haxiom]

I think it is quite frustrating that this mon gets stopped very hard by Groudon. It suffers arguably worse than Pokemon like Electriceus did from Groudon's addition, and frankly being completely unable to hit it is quite sad. I'm not really sure what the best way to deal with this is, whether it might be useful using something like Grass Knot which it used last gen and doing respectable damage? You at least have a shot at 2HKOing offensive ones on the switch with rocks up.

 

[Empress]

I think it is quite frustrating that this mon gets stopped very hard by Groudon. It suffers arguably worse than Pokemon like Electriceus did from Groudon's addition, and frankly being completely unable to hit it is quite sad. I'm not really sure what the best way to deal with this is, whether it might be useful using something like Grass Knot which it used last gen and doing respectable damage? You at least have a shot at 2HKOing offensive ones on the switch with rocks up.

If Thundurus wants to take on Primal Groudon, support from Primal Kyogre is pretty much mandatory, so I'll put it under Team Options. Grass Knot is the best shot for Thundurus himself to do anything against it, so do you think it's worth a mention on the main set?

 

[sammao]

U-turn is worth mentioning, able to U-turn out when P-Groudon switches in is pretty huge. I thing it can be an alternative over knock off.

 

[Hack]

Needs gk, taunt is expendable tho

 

[Empress]

Needs gk, taunt is expendable tho

Slashed. I'll finish all the sections by tonight.
EDIT: I like how this looks so far. Ready for more QC feedback.

 

[dice]

i legitimately cannot see myself using this pkmn ever in a meta where primal groudon is rampant. thundurus has to attempt to double switch out of it in almost every game to not lose a shitton of momentum. its viability was a much different story in xy b/c only only dialga really 'walled' the common set as an sr'r. i considered thundurus a ground type check / anti lead in xy and nowadays it can hardly do either effectively. lati@s and pdon made its life too rough

rejected 1/3

 

[Empress]

i legitimately cannot see myself using this pkmn ever in a meta where primal groudon is rampant. thundurus has to attempt to double switch out of it in almost every game to not lose a shitton of momentum. its viability was a much different story in xy b/c only only dialga really 'walled' the common set as an sr'r. i considered thundurus a ground type check / anti lead in xy and nowadays it can hardly do either effectively. lati@s and pdon made its life too rough

rejected 1/3

You're definitely right about Primal Groudon making Thundurus's life hell, but it can actually deal with the Latis at a certain level. It doesn't need Life Orb for Latios.
4 Atk Thundurus Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latios: 190-224 (63.5 - 74.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 Atk Thundurus Knock Off vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latios: 128-152 (42.8 - 50.8%) -- 2.3% chance to 2HKO

Moreover, with Latios down its Soul Dew, it fails to OHKO Thundurus the vast majority of the time.
252 SpA Latios Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Thundurus: 256-303 (85.6 - 101.3%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

While it does need the Life Orb for Latias, Latias still fails to OHKO Thundurus after Life Orb recoil.
252 SpA Latias Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Thundurus: 228-268 (76.2 - 89.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Even so, with 2 turns of Life Orb recoil, Thundurus vs Latias is often a one-for-one sacrifice, which admittedly isn't ideal.

Also, what's your thought on U-turn Thundurus, as somebody mentioned earlier? I've never used U-turn on it before, so I'm curious if it's usable at all to maintain momentum.

EDIT: U-turn is actually pretty good at pivoting out of a matchup against Primal Groudon, and it deals decent damage to the Lati twins.

 

[Hack]

y dice is on point, reject 2/3

 

[shrang]

Priority Thunder Wave is nice, but there's too many things wrong with this thing. Tbh I'd much rather use Zapdos at this point.

qc rejected 3/3

 

[Empress]

RIP Thundy

 

[QueenOfHax]

Back-to-back QC rejects are etremely frustrating and downright insulting to those who took time and effort to write an analysis, just saying.
I could understand if it was a joke analysis or a shitmon that has no niche whatsoever in ubers, but just because Thundurus-I has issues with PDon it doesn't mean it should be shut down this badly. And yes, Thundy-I does have important niches, such as checking Mega Mence.

 

[Hack]

Back-to-back QC rejects are etremely frustrating and downright insulting to those who took time and effort to write an analysis, just saying.
I could understand if it was a joke analysis or a shitmon that has no niche whatsoever in ubers, but just because Thundurus-I has issues with PDon it doesn't mean it should be shut down this badly. And yes, Thundy-I does have important niches, such as checking Mega Mence.

If you don't want to waste your time on getting rejected, make sure to discuss viability of niche mons with a couple of a qc members before you write the analysis.

 

[Empress]

If you don't want to waste your time on getting rejected, make sure to discuss viability of niche mons with a couple of a qc members before you write the analysis.

It was on the reservation list...

 

[shrang]

Back-to-back QC rejects are etremely frustrating and downright insulting to those who took time and effort to write an analysis, just saying.
I could understand if it was a joke analysis or a shitmon that has no niche whatsoever in ubers, but just because Thundurus-I has issues with PDon it doesn't mean it should be shut down this badly. And yes, Thundy-I does have important niches, such as checking Mega Mence.

If the Pokemon is not worth using and there's nothing else to add, why not reject it and save the OP time and effort? No matter how much effort you put into the analysis, if the Pokemon is not viable, then it's rejected (unless of course the Pokemon is an Uber and has to have an analysis). Why waste both QC and the OP's time?

 

[Fireburn]

rip