The UU Viability Ranking Thread

[KM]

Okay, so Gligar walls 14 threats in UU. That's great. No one is disputing its ability to tank hits, although other things like Qwilfish can take hits and actually have some good utility as well (I went on a rampage about that in the May Stats so I'll refrain myself a bit ;) ). The reason Gligar isn't B Rank isn't because it's not a good defensive mon, its because it can't do many useful things once its in play. Your examples of it 2HKOing Mienshao with EQ and wearing down Band Stone Edge Guts Heracross with Toxic are sort of irrelevant because no one would stay in on a Gligar. They'd get the fuck out, go into something that can piss on Gligar and set up like CM Suicune and get a couple of free turns. That's why Gligar is C-Rank.

 

[kokoloko]

I'm going to be the oddball that pushes for B-Ranked Gligar.

Here is a list of some of the things it walls.

• Heracross: Yes, I am aware that Gligar can get set up on by Heracross if it happens to be a Swords Dance variant. However, Swords Dance was only used on 13% of Heracrosses last month, which isn't a significant amount. Guts was also only used on 25% of Heracross. Maybe in a tournament environment Swords Dance Heracross is common, but even then, if Heracross uses Swords Dance, its probably going to use Stone Edge the next turn, which does this much damage.
  
  252 +2 Atk Heracross Stone Edge vs 252 HP/252 Def Eviolite Gligar (+Def) : 29.64% - 35.03% (3-4 hits to KO)

• 
  And why in the everloving fuck would I attack right away instead of setting up to +6 when Gligar is going like 12% to me with EQ?
  
  It's funny how you're pinpointing specific sets and situations as if they made Gligar any better. Like, sure it walls Scarf Mienshao but who gives a fuck when it'll just U-turn out of your painfully obvious switch to Gligar and now you're probably stuck facing something like DD Kingdra or Substitute Zapdos. And if it was SubPass Mienshao you're probably shitting yourself atm.
  
  Sure it walls offensive variants of Arcanine but no one should be using those anyway because Viictini does them better. Have fun eating a Will-O-Wisp from an actually good set and see how long Gligar lasts now.
  
  Rhyperior is probably just using SR or Dragon Tail on the switch, then going to one of the 45+ UU Pokemon that doesn't give a fuck about Gligar.
  
  Ambipom, Krookodile, and Machamp are pretty fucking irrelevant imo.
  
  No one uses Curse Rest Snorlax? Are you fucking kidding me...?
  
  You're like, grasping at straws with this one, dude.

 

[Magcargo]

I was going to use my 500th post on an RMT, but because I don't have any time to make one, I will waste it on this post. Anyways, I think that chandelure and heracross need higher tier consideration.

Heracross, in my opinion, should go up to low-mid S-rank. I don't know how good Scarfcross is in the current meta, but I've tested out the Choice band set and I must say that it preformed quite well due to many people expecting it to be the scarf set. It gets quite a few OHKOs due to the increased power boost. For example, You now OHKO Nidoqueen with Earthquake. OTR cofagrigus, one of heracross's best counters, gets 2HKO'd by an Adament night slash after SR. Its other sets, like the Swords dance set and guts set are very viable as well. As a whole, I would say that heracross is a solid low-mid S-rank.

Chandelure is another pokemon that deserves low S-rank. Chandelure is one of the few fire types in the UU metagame capable of hitting super hard with special moves. Thanks to its fantastic ghost/fire typing chandelure has an amazing STAB combination AND a respectable defensive typing. Chandelure has only 3 counters in the current UU metagame (Snorlax, Porygon2 and Houndoom) and even they lose to certain sets. Porygon2 cannot wall any sets with Flame body, Houndoom gets 2HKO'd by HP fighting after SR and snorlax has a chance to be beaten by the subsplit set. Chandelure also has energy ball, allowing it to beat bulky waters like swampert and suicune. Of course, chandelure does have several crippling flaws, but its pros make it a solid Low S-Tier pokemon IMO.

I'm not sure about gligar's ranking. It can check a good chunk of physical attackers and grab momentum with U-Turn, but its setup bait for sweepers like suicune. I'm torn between High C-Rank and Low B-rank.

Can someone explain to me why cincinno is B-Rank? It may be better than ambipom, but that doesn't make it the same rank as the likes of suicune and Rotom-H. I feel High C-rank is better suited for it.

EDIT: Full support for moving golurk up to B-Rank. It checks several fighting types as well as providing SR and spinblocking support giving it a unique niche in the metagame.

 

[ShootTheCore]

Can someone explain to me why cincinno is B-Rank? I may be better than ambipom, but that doesn't make it the same rank as the likes of suicune and Rotom-H. I feel High C-rank is better suited for it.

The sheer damage from it's moves allows it to OHKO or 2HKO nearly every 'mon in the tier. Its also very fast, outspeeding non-scarfed Mienshao. The things holding back though are the fact its completely blocked by Steel types and Cofagrigus plus it has non-existent defenses, which means priority moves and scarfed 'mons are guaranteed to take it down.

And of course Tail Slap's stupid accuracy. Which will often lead to fatal consequences.

 

[PTJon7]

Supporting Heracross & Chandelure for low S, Golurk for B.

To add to what STC said, Cincinno also has U-Turn which makes it easy to grab momentum and switch out on any walls that resist it's attacks. It's 3 Skill Link moves also provide it pretty nice coverage overall, Bullet Seed actually does nice damage against bulky Waters:

252 Atk Life Orb Skill Link Cinccino Bullet Seed (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blastoise: 220-260 (60.77 - 71.82%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Life Orb Skill Link Cinccino Bullet Seed (5 hits) vs. 248 HP / 244+ Def Slowbro: 210-245 (53.43 - 62.34%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Life Orb Skill Link Cinccino Bullet Seed (5 hits) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Milotic: 245-300 (62.34 - 76.33%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Kings Rock is also another (aggrivating) set that Cincinno can run, as a Kings Rock gives Cincinno a 41% chance to flinch with it's Skill Link attacks.

 

[Ernesto]

And why in the everloving fuck would I attack right away instead of setting up to +6 when Gligar is going like 12% to me with EQ?

It's funny how you're pinpointing specific sets and situations as if they made Gligar any better. Like, sure it walls Scarf Mienshao but who gives a fuck when it'll just U-turn out of your painfully obvious switch to Gligar and now you're probably stuck facing something like DD Kingdra or Substitute Zapdos. And if it was SubPass Mienshao you're probably shitting yourself atm.

Sure it walls offensive variants of Arcanine but no one should be using those anyway because Viictini does them better. Have fun eating a Will-O-Wisp from an actually good set and see how long Gligar lasts now.

Rhyperior is probably just using SR or Dragon Tail on the switch, then going to one of the 45+ UU Pokemon that doesn't give a fuck about Gligar.

Ambipom, Krookodile, and Machamp are pretty fucking irrelevant imo.

No one uses Curse Rest Snorlax? Are you fucking kidding me...?

You're like, grasping at straws with this one, dude.

I'm always gonna consider Gligar a non-issue because I use it as setup bait for Snorlax, but at the same time, why are you letting Hera get to +6? As far as I knew, U-turn was a common move on Gligar, which lets you tank a +2 Stone Edge and switch out to something that outspeeds—and let's face it, every team needs something for SD Hera, even stall will use HP Fly Zapdos at the very least. The only reason I'm using this argument is because you used it for Mienshao, although I reckon in a vacuum SD Hera > Gligar > Scarf Shao. Also, another point in Gligar's favor is being able to tank a Band V-create from Victini and KO the following turn with Earthquake after SR and the defense drops (it only needs 52 Speed EVs to outrun -1 Jolly Tini), or Roosting the first turn if Tini didn't take SR damage. I wouldn't switch it in unless I know the set, of course, but that surely is a pro for the scorpionfly.

If the U-turn argument were to determine the tiering of a Pokemon, then Qwilfish would be doomed, because it's a Pokemon without reliable recovery, weak to Spikes, and which can also lose to SD Hera in a vacuum, or to Darm, Tini, and Mienshao with team support. However, no one is arguing Qwilfish for C-rank.

Now I couldn't care less for Gligar's placement, but I felt your arguments were contradictory.

About Heracross, I never really understood why it dropped, and now that the CB set is being used more, I find it even harder to deal with, freaking Megahorn hitting every time. Not to mention the Scarf set is in no way outclassed by Mienshao, since it can actually switch into moves and threaten a KO, always revenges Offensive Mew, and can at least survive a +2 LO Ice Shard from Weavile after SR if kept healthy. Also, the Reckless boost is almost moot when most of the time you're spamming U-turns for fear of random Protects or if the opponent has a Ghost. That's not even mentioning that Guts Scarf is as good as ever due to Toxics and Will-O-Wisps being flung around recklessly, while also providing utility as a Sleep absorber.

EDIT: Is it even worth replying to the post below mine? I'd say it isn't because the guy just took some random words from my sentences and mixed them together. The only real reply would be yes, I admit that 'weak to Spikes' is wrong and I should've used 'susceptible' instead, otherwise the guy needs to learn how to read; sorry if that sounds rough.

 

[KM]

If the U-turn argument were to determine the tiering of a Pokemon, then Qwilfish would be doomed, because it's a Pokemon without reliable recovery, weak to Spikes, and which can also lose to SD Hera in a vacuum, or to Darm, Tini, and Mienshao with team support. However, no one is arguing Qwilfish for C-rank.

Qwilfish isn't "doomed" against SD Hera. It T-Waves as it SDs up, crippling it, and then can haze away the boost, do 40% and paraflinch it to death with waterfall, or just completely disregard it as a threat unless it's carrying EQ (which SD hera doesn't normally) and set up some hazards.

Qwilfish will never lose to Darm or Mienshao unless it switches in at .5% HP. It'll lose to Victini only if it's banded Zen Headbutt/Bolt Strike or if it's special.

Also, "weak to spikes" isn't a thing. It's called grounded. Qwilfish also absorbs toxic spikes. It also has reliable recovery in the form of pain split, which is also useful against things that can otherwise try and set up on it, like Snorlax.

I feel like 1/2 of my posts these days are Qwilfish praise, but whatever, its a good mon.

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

On the Cinccino matter, it's in B-Rank mostly because it hits really fucking hard with Skill Link Tail Slap, making all of its three main moves at an obscene 125 Base Power, and 95 Attack is decent enough for it to be quite an offensive powerhouse, and it's pretty hard to take a hit from it. Bullet Seed and Rock Blast are both excellent, the former hitting Rhyperior and Swampert for some real good damage while Rock Blast shits on Chandelure like a boss. Cinccino is also quite fast, and without Steel-types or Cofagrigus/Dusclops, you're pretty much going down against Cincy. It's helpless against Steel-types and Cofagrigus, which makes a teammate like Houndoom or Chandelure ideal (or Magneton), and it also is frail, plus Tail Slap can miss at the most crucial time, as said before. However, Cinccino's ability to sweep while also serving as an anti-lead (which I forgot to mention), beating Froslass and to a lesser extent Scolipede, which is nice, make it a pretty solid B-Rank Pokemon imo. Like most B-Rank Pokemon, Cinccino is a great choice in the UU metagame, although it has some notable flaws that prevent it from being A or S-Rank.

You know, I'd be perfectly fine with Chandelure going to Low S-Rank. This thing has only one hard counter in all of UU: Snorlax. If you ask me, Chandelure is part of the reason everyone runs Snorlax on their team. As Magcargo 2 said, P2 and Houndoom see use because of Chandelure, and even they can lose. Chandelure just hits insanely hard and is very hard to switch into. It's slow I guess, and its SR weakness sucks, but it's powerful and is kinda versatile (Specs, Scarf, SubSplit), and could fit into Low S pretty well.

I'd support Heracross going up too since although the Scarf set is easily prepared for, the other sets can easily catch people off guard and are pretty awesome. SD Hera is one of my favorite things to use in UU right now, since he sets up, and sends slow teams crying for mercy, and is pretty hard to switch into. CB Heracross, I haven't used, but Magcargo 2's examples make the set look pretty appealing, and common Heracross counters are taken down pretty easily. I'd support it for S-Rank, albeit Low S.

Gligar definitely isn't B-Rank, keep in in C (and it's mid-low C imo). Gligar can't counter half a damn number of physical threats in UU; SD Hera sets up on it for days, Mienshao and Cobalion can run HP Ice (and the former can also just U-turn out anyways), and Scrafty and Machamp have Ice Punch. This severely hinders Gligar's ability to wall Fighting-types. Gligar is also big-time momentum killer, since as said, anything it can wall can just switch out, and suddenly Gligar can find itself facing something like Suicune, Kingdra, or Shaymin ready to just murder it. U-turn seems decent, but that doesn't help that Gligar is letting a free setup turn and such. (As I said, since Gligar is weak as hell, it's setup fodder to the absolute max)

I'd suggest Yanmega for A-Rank, since it is very capable of sweeping teams with just hazard support alone. Its access to Speed Boost makes it insanely difficult to outspeed, while it can fire Bug Buzz and Air Slash at everything which makes it pretty dangerous. Yanmega can really put you in an excellent win condition, like Sharpedo, thanks to this. Yanmega isn't just a Speed Boost sweeper either; it can also serve as an excellent wallbreaker thanks to Tinted Lens, and Specs Bug Buzz that nothing resists is pretty awesome and allows Yanmega to break down walls. I think Yanmega is pretty awesome in the UU metagame and I'd suggest it for A-Rank.

 

[Warb]

I'd suggest Yanmega for A-Rank, since it is very capable of sweeping teams with just hazard support alone. Its access to Speed Boost makes it insanely difficult to outspeed, while it can fire Bug Buzz and Air Slash at everything which makes it pretty dangerous. Yanmega can really put you in an excellent win condition, like Sharpedo, thanks to this. Yanmega isn't just a Speed Boost sweeper either; it can also serve as an excellent wallbreaker thanks to Tinted Lens, and Specs Bug Buzz that nothing resists is pretty awesome and allows Yanmega to break down walls. I think Yanmega is pretty awesome in the UU metagame and I'd suggest it for A-Rank.

Hmm I think in direct comparison to Sharpedo - UU's other prominent Speed Boost sweeper - Yanmega has a few major flaws.
First of all, Zapdos is effing everywhere right now. Especially on balanced and defensive oriented teams, the thunderbird finds itself home in many teams. Especially now that bulky Zapdos seems to be getting more and more popular, Yanmega can't really hope to sweep with that thing around.
Secondly, Snorlax, the ever so popular specially defensive behemoth, can also cut Yanmega's sweep short, as does specially defensive Togekiss and Rotom-Heat.

Looking at the Pokes that can stop Sharpedo from sweeping, namely bulky waters and Virizion, it should be obvious that Sharpedo has a far easier time doing its job most of the time, with the former being used rather scarcely and the latter ones being handled just fine by Roserade / Shaymin / Zapdos / Raikou / Virizion / Abomasnow ... and I didn't even get to the RU pokes yet.

It should be noted that pretty much all of Sharpedo's checks and counters are grounded and can be worn down by Spikes / Toxic Spikes, whereas the SR damage on Yanmega's checks won't net the necessary OHKOs.
Also coupled with the fact that sharpdeo doesn't have that crippling 4x weakness to SR, giving it essentially more Life Orb hits, makes Sharpedo the better Speed Boost sweeper in my opinion.

In the end, I think Yanmega fits well in B-Rank.

 

[Iminyourcloset]

Going in on the convo of Gligar placement, it's all good in C-Rank. While I use it all the time on most of my good teams, it's good at being a simple wall, but can be thrown around by things it's supposed to counter, (HP ice Mienshao and whathaveyou) like everyone's said.

As for Cinccino, it's faster plus can OHKO froslass, through focus sash. (well, Rock Blast is multiple hits, but whatevs; no spikes on your side of the field) which is pretty fuckin' epic, along with what ScraftyIsTheBest just said.

I support Chandy for S-Rank, but I'm unsure about Heracross. While it's true that only scarf sets are prepared for, a lot of people use scarf hera. Chandy is imo more threatening than heracross, just because it has base 145 special attack and 2 or 3 immunities, plus is really only walled by Snorlax (and Porygon2 if Flash Fire and possibly Houndoom, too, I guess). Hera I'm unsure if it deserves S-rank... true, it's very strong, but the most common set (scarf) is 99% prepared for on any good team, it's kinda cockblocked. Now Band is a good set, but can still be hard-walled by things. Now SD can shine very well, admittedly, but still...it's meh. IDK.
Disclaimer: It's 12:24 am. I'm just hoping I make sense. Chandy for S, not Hera, IMO K?

I personally have like no experience with Yanmega, so I don't think I have right to place it, but I've faced it enough times to always think about it's poor coverage. It has tinted lens, sure, but isn't speed boost the reason to use it? Bug/Flying/Grass is what I see most often (Bug Buzz/Air Slash/Giga Drain/Protect) and it seems to be really inefficient. Sure, Hidden Powers can be run, but Yanmega either loses one of its STABs or something to mitigate LO damage. TBH, it seems a tad overrated in my eyes, as I usually have something to shut it down, whether it be SR or just hardwalling it.

 

[KM]

On my Yanmega, I always ran HP Ground, but it was also on a QuivPass team so it might be different. In my opinion, Yanmega should be in A-rank, however.

I'll start by discussing its weaknesses. Yes, it is 4x weak to SR, which is annoying as fuck, especially when combined with LO. That said, its role is really just to switch in once at the end of the game and clean stuff up. (I suppose specs Tint is more of a midgame sweeper but w/e). I've found it personally very threatening after a Smash or a Dance, and I don't see hardly any people even considering that :P. As stupid as it sounds, I think we must take Yanmega's bulk into consideration when comparing with Sharpedo.

Sharpedo is frail as fuck, and priority like Fake Out and Sucker Punch do around 50% at least, even though he resists the latter (fake out is actually sort of irrelevant but meh). Mach Punch will just kill it straight out. Yanmega, on the other hand, has fairly decent natural physical defense as well as a built-in resistance to fighting moves. It also has the useful typing to be able to handily OHKO most every mon that would be using Sucker Punch. (I'm not sure about Bisharp with HP Ground).

One of the reasons I find Yanmega so much more threatening than Sharpedo is that most of the common specially defensive pokes in the meta are weak to at least one of its moves. Other than Snorlax, Umbreon gets swamped by Bug Buzz, Roserade by Air Slash, Amoonguss by Air Slash, Cress by Bug Buzz, Mew by Bug Buzz, Hitmonlee by Air Slash(lol)... In this, it only really needs to eliminate or severely weaken things like Snorlax, Zapdos, Togekiss or P2 before attempting to sweep.

The Tinted Lens set also deserves some mention, being able to 2HKO a massive portion of the metagame and carrying a pretty decent surprise factor. Yanmega has decent speed even outside of Speed Boost, and Tinted Lens means it can just wreck face on everything. (I'd like to try smashpassing to a Tinted Lens mega too... ;P)

IMO Yanmega doesn't deserve to be put in B-rank purely because of its weakness to SR. It is still an overwhelmingly good sweeper and cleaner-upper, and when its few counters are off the field it can be a massively threatening poke.

 

[Shiruba]

At the same time, though, you have to consider that Yanmega will often be at 50% when it switches in, which limits its already quite low bulk severely. I believe it's also lower because it's not really viably capable of running a mixed or even physical set, unlike Sharpedo, which can run all three different types for surprise factor. Raikou is also more specially defensive [and HP Ground is weaker, anyway] so it can probably take at least one, and Victini can also take one and return fire, even after Stealth Rock.

252+ SpA Life Orb Yanmega Hidden Power Rock vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Victini: 203-239 (59.53 - 70.08%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

[also I find that Sharpedo can be useful against slower Calm Mind Pokemon not behind subs who think they can just set up and though there are less risky/better Pokemon for the job, it's still viable/possible]

I haven't used Yanmega before but I've seen it a few times and it's just something I've noticed.

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

Going to suggest Umbreon for A-Rank. Umbreon is just really, really good atm, and it's incredibly annoying to face one in a match. Umbreon is easily one of the best special walls in UU and is very hard to take down, while Foul Play will chip away at their HP. Wish+Protect can be an annoying combo, and Umbreon can wall most, if not all special attackers in the UU tier. It's also reasonably bulky on the physical side, so it can take a couple of physical hits too. Mienshao can't reliably check Umbreon really; it will take some from Foul Play and Protect will basically make HJK a death penalty. Umbreon is a great team supporter, because it can pass Wishes and cure the team with Heal Bell, always keeping your team healthy, while its lack of offensive stats have almost no impact now thanks to Foul Play, so incoming physical attackers that Umbreon invites are gonna take a buttload of damage. It also has excellent defensive synergy with Cofagrigus and even Dusclops, which makes its two weaknesses easy to patch up. Overall, Umbreon is just really good in UU atm and should definitely be A-Rank imo. (I like using Dusclops+Umbreon, haven't used Dusclops for a while but I've used him successfully).

I'd suggest Uxie for C-Rank, been using it quite a bit lately and it's actually pretty viable in the tier. It has great defenses, which make it a decent check to Mienshao (as long as it's not clicking U-turn, lol), and it can support its team with its excellent movepool, running Stealth Rock and Thunder Wave to provide large amounts of support to the team. It can also allow for frailer Pokemon such as Weavile to grab setup turns with Dual Screens+Memento. It finds itself on weather and TR teams thanks to having the weather moves and Trick Room, which makes it excellent on those teams. Overall, while Uxie faces stiff competition as a Psychic-type from Mew, Cresselia, and Meloetta, it's a pretty viable Pokemon and I'd suggest it for C-Rank.

 

[PTJon7]

I wholeheartedly agree with Umbreon for A-Rank. Umbreon can shut down almost every special attacker in the tier and also support it's team with Wish & Heal Bell. Foul Play is also a huge part of what makes Umbreon so good, as it makes it very hard for physical attackers to switch into Umbreon.

I second Uxie for C-Rank as well, while a lot of things it does Mew can do better it does have enough of a niche in it's bulk, ability, and move pool to be worth placing in the rankings.

 

[Homeslice]

Full support for Uxie in C-Rank. While I only used her in earlier BW UU, I used a TrickScarf set consisting of Trick/Thunder Wave/Stealth Rock/Zen Headbutt and it works fantastically. I started using for a little after seeing that post and can say there's literally nothing that expects in and the only thing it isn't useful against is other Choicemons. It's good as a dedicated lead or hiding later to cripple the opponent's Bulky Waters or set-up sweepers. Uxie also has other fantastic support options, so T-wave and SR don't need to be used and can be filled with something else so there's no way of knowing what Uxie can be running. I'd put it in the same boat as Mew where it can do a lot of things, but Mew usually outclasses it and it's niche is as a bulkier version of Mew (that's the only way I can describe it) so I figure C-Rank is perfect.

 

[TPO3]

I'd also like to see Uxie in C-Rank. Base 130/130 defenses are almost unparalleled for a support pokemon in this tier, matched only by a select few (ie: Cresselia.) The defenses are definitely not matched by any pokemon you can use on Offensive teams. The support it provides in Stealth Rock, dual screens, Thunder Wave, and Memento can be gamebreaking, and despite its lack of power, it posesses U-turn (and Memento) so that it does not become complete deadweight.

 

[Specter Pro]

I just saw that Froslass is now S-rank ._. I haven't had much first-hand experience with her myself so is she really that good? I don't see a discussion about this either...

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

Yeah, to be honest, Froslass is just that good imo. Froslass is the best spiker in the tier, and is basically the UU version of RU/NU Scolipede. Her Speed is absolutely admirable, and thanks to this, she can quickly set up Spikes pretty early on in the match, and Taunt stuffs up any Foresight or setup attempts. She has D-Bond, and along with Spikes, makes her an admirable lead. Her Bulky Spiker set makes her an excellent spinblocker+Spiker at the same time, and D-Bond also allows her to beat spinners and those Spikes never go to waste. I think the np threat also explains pretty damn well why Froslass is basically a top threat in UU as of now.

 

[CoolStoryBrobat]

I just saw that Froslass is now S-rank ._. I haven't had much first-hand experience with her myself so is she really that good? I don't see a discussion about this either...

The whole Froslass discussion actually took place in the np thread, they're debating on suspecting her actually, lol. For good reason mainly because of how effective it is for offensive teams to have a fast spiker-spinblocker with Taunt + Destiny Bond.

 

[Specter Pro]

No way D: I didn't think I'd see any more Pokes getting banned before BW era had past. But yeah thinking about it I can see why she's good, blistering Speed to set up Spikes or Taunt/Destiny Bond before the opponent can react as well as Ice-type STAB to do decent damage to common Pokes on top of that. I've also seen Cursed Body come into play, it works well enough with that Ghost typing and ofc said Typing means she can double as a Spin Blocker. Speaking of which I questioned the viability of her bulky spread, I haven't seen it much and her Defenses are rather poor but now I'm hearing it's often better than the usual Scuicide Lead...

A ban would be for the best but it would also suck since I haven't put Froslass to good use yet :l oh well

 

[Aecor]

Froslass is hellagood when used by a good player. Honestly, I think it should go to BL along with Venomoth. They basically do their roles extremely well. Sure they may be a bit one-dimensional, but there is no need for another set. It simply outclasses almost all others at performing its role. Froslass basically guarantees 2 layers of spikes--and a well played D-bond will take out slower Poke. The best comparison IMO would be Deoxys-D from OU.

 

[Squidsauce]

Ahhh I see a lot of my predictions from awhile back have gone in. Mienshao and froslass S ranked.

But gligar at C? I remember back when it was B and I argued it should be A. The whole reason it's good is because of u turn guys. Heracross won't get +6 because gligar will switch in, set up rocks/toxic/whatever, and u turn out. Same goes for slow bro switch ins. I'd say it's a C without u-turn, but with u-turn, it is for sure at least B. It's great on teams that need a strong defensive backbone that can pivot into stronger pokemon. Something like a lanturn-gligar 2 man core could be very good for an otherwise offensively oriented team. Or a rain team (gligar learns rain dance+uturn, yay).

 

[Kentucky Fried Colonel]

I've never really had a problem with froslass. With the right pokes, it isn't hard to stop her from only getting up more than 1 layer of spikes, 2 in the worst case scenario. I can sort of get S-rank, but I think suspecting it and potentially banning it is going to far

 

[Squidsauce]

I've never really had a problem with froslass. With the right pokes, it isn't hard to stop her from only getting up more than 1 layer of spikes, 2 in the worst case scenario. I can sort of get S-rank, but I think suspecting it and potentially banning it is going to far

It's because it's sort of uncompetitive, and hard to stop. In the same way you could "play around" deoxys speed in OU, you can for froslass too...

 

[CoolStoryBrobat]

... I'd say it's a C without u-turn, but with u-turn, it is for sure at least B. It's great on teams that need a strong defensive backbone that can pivot into stronger pokemon.

^ The basis for all "Gligar doesn't suck arguments", including the one I made several pages back. I'm pretty much 100% in agreement here. The fact it's a bulky wall with access to U-Turn to recover momentum is a godsend to any defensive Pokemon, and Gligar manages to take advantage of it quite nicely in my opinion.