MaroGod (defensive one) YEAH! ICE-STEEL 4 DA WIN!
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Project The PU Theorymon Project [Week eighteen: Meganium]
- Thread starter MZ
- Start date
- Status
He changed his submission, the ice one isn't an option for voting
voting for GrimoireGod because it looks like something I would use.
If that is still rejected by you I'm voting for.. Galbia :p
If that is still rejected by you I'm voting for.. Galbia :p
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MZ he voted for the changed one my previous one wasn't part steel
Also my vote goes to Ztstaffo
Ztstaffo
Raiza
The winner is Ztstaffo!
This week is gonna be something different. Magnemite has suggested that open discussion might be better than a voting process. The thread was originally made in a set submission style due to not enough people for open discussion, but since that's the way other theorymon threads are run I'm gonna do a trial week. Sets and ideas can still be posted, but this is discussion not voting.
This week is gonna be something different. Magnemite has suggested that open discussion might be better than a voting process. The thread was originally made in a set submission style due to not enough people for open discussion, but since that's the way other theorymon threads are run I'm gonna do a trial week. Sets and ideas can still be posted, but this is discussion not voting.
Our new subject is Masquerain! This will be discussion for a weak-ish. Remember, quiver pass is now banned.
Well the first thing that comes to mind when trying to make masquerain useful again is sticky web. Masquerain is one of the few pokemon with access to sticky web in the tier, the other being leavanny, kricketune, and ariados. however, masquerain is extremely outclassed by a user of it. Finding a way to make it stand out from the other sticky webbers is one direction one could go at theorymonning a masquerain set that would be used and still make sense regarding flavor hopefully.
With this in mind, lets look at some ways masquerain is already outclassed by leavanny and kricketune, and ariados i guess lol. after knowing what your already outclassed by, you will find an easier time to innovate a theorymon that differentiates itself.
Masquerain @ Focus Sash
Ability: Intimidate
Evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Sticky Web
- Scald
- Bug Buzz
- Toxic/Baton Pass
As you can tell this set is not very useful besides for the sticky web, and it still isn't fast enough to get it set up sometimes. you may think intimidate is useful, but you arent going to be able to switch in much with that bug/flying typing. the only utility i see is scald burns and toxic/pivoting, which it finds hard to pivot because of stealth rock once again. So how can you make Sticky web masquerain better? this should be an interesting thing to theorymon.
Another way you could go with this is an offensive quiver dancer. This direction may be harder to pull off, since there are so many quiverdancers in the tier now, and you can't just use quiver pass anymore. Lets use the same strategy we did with sticky web, in finding what makes quiver dance masquerain outclassed.
Masquerain @ Focus Sash
Ability: Intimidate
Evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Quiver Dance
- Bug Buzz
- Hydro Pump / Giga Drain
- Ice Beam / Giga Drain
You could use air slash but its not really as good as this coverage. one thing i see that could be a good thing to start with theorymon on this is the ability, because intimidate really isn't that useful on this set since you don't have the ability to switch in much, and there isnt much bulk to make use of it. So how can we make Offensive quiver dance masquerain better? This is another good direction to go.
These are the two easy ways to go at this i can see. There are probably other things you can make work like some type of tailwind support since it has intimidate, but these are definitely the easiest. Happy theorymonning to all ^^
With this in mind, lets look at some ways masquerain is already outclassed by leavanny and kricketune, and ariados i guess lol. after knowing what your already outclassed by, you will find an easier time to innovate a theorymon that differentiates itself.
- Masquerain is outclassed for one because of speed. it is not nearly as fast as leavanny and it isn't faster than kricketune either.
- Taunt, Magic Coat, etc.- Kricketune has taunt, which is very useful, while leavanny has magic coat. this allows them to stop or reflect rocks and spikes while deflecting taunts too.
- Kricketune also knows knock off and endeavor, which are both ways to cripple the opponent. Masquerain doesn't really cripple much after setting up sticky webs with its movepool. Not to mention leavanny also has utility in knock off.
- leavanny's defenses and typing allows it to also be used to take some average hits if necessary too which is something useful outside of setting sticky web.
Masquerain @ Focus Sash
Ability: Intimidate
Evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Sticky Web
- Scald
- Bug Buzz
- Toxic/Baton Pass
As you can tell this set is not very useful besides for the sticky web, and it still isn't fast enough to get it set up sometimes. you may think intimidate is useful, but you arent going to be able to switch in much with that bug/flying typing. the only utility i see is scald burns and toxic/pivoting, which it finds hard to pivot because of stealth rock once again. So how can you make Sticky web masquerain better? this should be an interesting thing to theorymon.
Another way you could go with this is an offensive quiver dancer. This direction may be harder to pull off, since there are so many quiverdancers in the tier now, and you can't just use quiver pass anymore. Lets use the same strategy we did with sticky web, in finding what makes quiver dance masquerain outclassed.
- An obvious thing that makes it overlooked is that butterfree has compound eyes and sleep powder, which is useful for setting up. masquerain doesn't have that luxury.
- Masquerain also lacks the speed and power butterfree has, which is a big problem. Butterfree outspeeds things like jolly pawnard and max speed barbaracle, while masquerain can't.
Masquerain @ Focus Sash
Ability: Intimidate
Evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Quiver Dance
- Bug Buzz
- Hydro Pump / Giga Drain
- Ice Beam / Giga Drain
You could use air slash but its not really as good as this coverage. one thing i see that could be a good thing to start with theorymon on this is the ability, because intimidate really isn't that useful on this set since you don't have the ability to switch in much, and there isnt much bulk to make use of it. So how can we make Offensive quiver dance masquerain better? This is another good direction to go.
These are the two easy ways to go at this i can see. There are probably other things you can make work like some type of tailwind support since it has intimidate, but these are definitely the easiest. Happy theorymonning to all ^^
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Masquerain @ Life Orb
Typing: Bug/Water
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Quiver Dance
- Roost
- Bug Buzz
- Scald
....Back to the origin with the Bug/Water Typing, unique to its pre-evolution Surskit. I didn't give it swift swim, however, because Masquerain is a flying bug and it seems unlikely for it to be able to swim fast. Instead I gave it Magic Guard- I know this is a near-broken ability and it feels like cheating, but Masquerain is just so beautiful and magical that it doesn't seem much of a stretch to me. I can imagine those wings hovering around and guarding Masquerain from evil spirits, etc.
Anyway, Masquerain here is a pretty unique bulky sweeper, and would no doubt be a top tier pokemon with these attributes. Its typing allows it to switch into water types like Poliwrath and Simipour with ease, as well as Piloswine. It can easily set up Quiver Dances on slower special attackers like Tangela, and once it does, it is able to outspeed everything in the tier except Zebstrika and Ninjask. Its 2 STABs also give it perfect coverage, making it very hard for wallbreakers to switch in. Masquerain could also run a Specially Defensive Set with Defog rather than Quiver Dance, if that suits your team needs.
Let's look at Masquerain's weaknesses and resistances: (drumroll please)
Bug + Flying =
4x Rock
2x Flying
2x Fire
2x Electric
2x Ice
1/4 Fighting
1/4 Grass
1/2 Bug
0 Ground
Masquerain is really limited when it comes to switching in on SRock. That means its sweeping potential is limited and the number of times it can come in to set up webs or tailwind. To remedy this, ManOfMany's set works with the magic guard. Or we could add a Fighting (no), Ground (no), or Steel (no) typing to it, but it doesn't work because none of those typings really "fit" Masquerain. We could also give it Magic Coat. Then you could use Masquerain as an anti-lead. When the opponent's lead switches out, you could Quiver Dance or set up webs and then proceed to do some damage. So here are my imput after all that:
-Magic Guard? As ManOfMany said, it's patterns are very mysterious and beautiful.
-Magic Coat? Same as above.
-Make it a cross between Kricketune and Butterfree? (offensive anti-lead?)
Possible Sets:
Magic Guard:
Masquerain @ Focus Sash
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Sticky Web
- Air Slash
- Bug Buzz
Magic Coat:
Masquerain @ Focus Sash
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Sticky Web
- Air Slash/Magic Coat
- Bug Buzz/Magic Coat
Bug + Flying =
4x Rock
2x Flying
2x Fire
2x Electric
2x Ice
1/4 Fighting
1/4 Grass
1/2 Bug
0 Ground
Masquerain is really limited when it comes to switching in on SRock. That means its sweeping potential is limited and the number of times it can come in to set up webs or tailwind. To remedy this, ManOfMany's set works with the magic guard. Or we could add a Fighting (no), Ground (no), or Steel (no) typing to it, but it doesn't work because none of those typings really "fit" Masquerain. We could also give it Magic Coat. Then you could use Masquerain as an anti-lead. When the opponent's lead switches out, you could Quiver Dance or set up webs and then proceed to do some damage. So here are my imput after all that:
-Magic Guard? As ManOfMany said, it's patterns are very mysterious and beautiful.
-Magic Coat? Same as above.
-Make it a cross between Kricketune and Butterfree? (offensive anti-lead?)
Possible Sets:
Magic Guard:
Masquerain @ Focus Sash
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Sticky Web
- Air Slash
- Bug Buzz
Magic Coat:
Masquerain @ Focus Sash
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Sticky Web
- Air Slash/Magic Coat
- Bug Buzz/Magic Coat
Bug/Water Typing
Masquerain @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
Evs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
Bold Nature
- Defog
- Roost
- Scald
- Sticky Web / Baton Pass
This is my take on a defensive masquerain set. This would be very viable because of its typing and ability. It could easily switch into things like piloswine, machoke, and poliwrath, and set up sticky web, defog, scald burn, or just heal itself back up. It would be a very reliable utilitymon that doesn't have to be a suicide lead at setting up sticky web. it is also immune to spikes and toxic spikes so that is always good. Baton pass is there if you dont need sticky web on your team and would rather have a pivot with defog
252+ Atk Piloswine Icicle Spear (5 hits) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Masquerain on a critical hit: 140-165 (40.8 - 48.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO lol
252+ Atk Poliwrath Focus Punch vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Masquerain: 105-123 (30.6 - 35.8%) -- 45.4% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Machoke Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Masquerain: 94-111 (27.4 - 32.3%) -- 62% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
I will post theorymon sets of different routes like quiver dance soon soon
EDIT: Simipour had a really good idea of having u-turn over sticky web or baton pass which makes a lot of since, so I am going to post this alternate (and better set) too for theorymon defensive masquerain
Bug/Water Typing
Masquerain @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
Evs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
Bold Nature
- Defog
- Roost
- Scald
- U-turn
This set has typing changes, ability changes, and move changes, but it isn't really too much and they all make since. This one's credit goes more to simipour, but this one is very good pivot as well as defogger instead of setting up sticky web and is very good for the same typing and defensive reasons above.
Masquerain @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
Evs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
Bold Nature
- Defog
- Roost
- Scald
- Sticky Web / Baton Pass
This is my take on a defensive masquerain set. This would be very viable because of its typing and ability. It could easily switch into things like piloswine, machoke, and poliwrath, and set up sticky web, defog, scald burn, or just heal itself back up. It would be a very reliable utilitymon that doesn't have to be a suicide lead at setting up sticky web. it is also immune to spikes and toxic spikes so that is always good. Baton pass is there if you dont need sticky web on your team and would rather have a pivot with defog
252+ Atk Piloswine Icicle Spear (5 hits) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Masquerain on a critical hit: 140-165 (40.8 - 48.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO lol
252+ Atk Poliwrath Focus Punch vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Masquerain: 105-123 (30.6 - 35.8%) -- 45.4% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Machoke Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Masquerain: 94-111 (27.4 - 32.3%) -- 62% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
I will post theorymon sets of different routes like quiver dance soon soon
EDIT: Simipour had a really good idea of having u-turn over sticky web or baton pass which makes a lot of since, so I am going to post this alternate (and better set) too for theorymon defensive masquerain
Bug/Water Typing
Masquerain @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
Evs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
Bold Nature
- Defog
- Roost
- Scald
- U-turn
This set has typing changes, ability changes, and move changes, but it isn't really too much and they all make since. This one's credit goes more to simipour, but this one is very good pivot as well as defogger instead of setting up sticky web and is very good for the same typing and defensive reasons above.
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The addition of U-turn on this set could actually be pretty cool, as it makes more sense than Sticky Web (especially for a defogger) and it allows you to get off guaranteed damage as you pivot out, unlike Baton Pass. Something like this sounds really cool for checking numerous Stealth Rockers, almost like Vibrava does.
I agree and if that's too many changes then just let it keep Intimidate (helps more against Machoke, and some polis)
Masquerain @ Choice Band
Ability: Aerilate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Quick Attack
- Return
- X-Scissor
- U-turn
Masquerain is often overlooked because of its weakness to Stealth Rock and the presence of other Flying-types, such as Jumpluff and Pelipper. However, the addition of Aerilate gives a boost to Quick Attack and Return, making it act like a Mega Pinsir in PU. This makes sense because it learns many Normal-type moves; in fact, it learns more Normal-type moves than Bug- and Flying-type moves. Its Pokemon Y entry states: "It flaps its four wings to hover and fly freely in any direction--to and fro and sideways." I gave X-Scissor because its Bug-type and isn't much of a stretch, as it learns Fell Stinger and Bug Bite. Its wings also flap in an X shape.
U-Turn is legal dude. I know its not a big change but still
Also just a nifty suggestion :)
Bug/Water Typing
Masquerain @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
Evs: 184 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA / 68 Spe
Timid Nature
- Defog
- Roost
- Scald
- U-turn
just an alternative Ev spread for the ability to outspeed base 45 Adamant/Modest pokemon eg Golem + walls that don't run speed such as max invested Solrock :). 4 in SpA is so your still have uneven Hp (327)
I was actually going to post this but I saw you did defensive bug/water already and lost my chance. To me just means great minds think alike ;)
This seems cool. I'm gonna suggest some more stuff with what offensive capabilities could Masquerain have outside of a standard quiver dance set? Aerilate is a cool place to start, where else can it go? Offensive pivot with U-turn? Scarfer? idk, go exploring.
Also leave feedback on this versus how the thread was run before, although don't post solely for that
Also leave feedback on this versus how the thread was run before, although don't post solely for that
Masquerain @ Life Orb/Leftovers/Lum Berry
Ability: Pixilate
Type:Bug/Fairy
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Bug Buzz
- Round
- Earth Power / U-turn
- Roost/ Tailwind/ Agility
3 changes if there is an issue despite my explanation i will edit out one of them.
Fairy-Type:
it seems like an odd choice and seems unlikely with the fact Masqurain learns zero fairy moves but the typing to me fits it well it is small,swift and graceful all attributes of a standard "pixie" or Fairy
Pixilate:
Pixilate is so Masqurain can have a stab fairy move using the normal moves it learns as a kind of fodder for it
Earth Power:
Earth Power is given to many pokemon some not touching and not being a ground-type examples being the Deino, Archen and Anorith lines. If it can make sense on them how cant it be on Masqurain? Masqurain does learn Mud Shot so a boosted special Ground move should be ok
Similar to RSBOI but going a different way with it
Bug/Fairy Type
Resists- grass, bug, dark, ground, fighting
immune-Dragon
Weak-Fire, Steel, Poison, Flying,Rock
immune-Dragon
Weak-Fire, Steel, Poison, Flying,Rock
Bug Buzz = Masqurains Primary stab it has the side effects of passing through Subs (Sound Move) and a chance to lower SpD.
Round (Fairy) = Round gets a 1.5x boost in power+fairy typing. Making Masqurain Fairy increases its power further becoming a secondary stab equalling in power to Bug Buzz. It also passes through subs
Earth Power/U-turn = Earth Power is theory move which would help Masqurain against Steel-types which otherwise stop Masqurain in its tracks. U-turn is a pivot maneuver that is used to assist your team with Tailwind and gain momentum
Roost/Tailwind/Agility = Used for in different ways but for a similar purposes. Roost is for survivability against attacks and your life orb recoil. Tailwind is used to double your entire teams speed for 4 turns. Agility doubles Masqurains speed.
Feedback on thread test:
I both like and hate it. While the ability to post multiple theory sets and discuss them immediately is a very nice way to go
T
T
he Theory thread has been known for its voting system which wasn't a bad idea to begin with having enough people visiting to vote and many having interesting theory sets to post it was very relaxed/calm overall. There is also a slight issue to me with multiple set postings even though its a discussion thread some people take time in thinking about a theory which can be thought of by someone else who has done four other sets prior. Not a massive deal but its still an annoyance i felt like bringing up.
my opinion is still mixed on an open discussion thread but it isnt necessarily bad
im still accustomed to the one theory-one vote system which may seem somewhat biased but i did like the way it was done.
my opinion is still mixed on an open discussion thread but it isnt necessarily bad
im still accustomed to the one theory-one vote system which may seem somewhat biased but i did like the way it was done.
Ps-Apologies for feedback being two Boxes it isnt extremely long my phone is just on the fritz
T.I.A.
formerly Ticktock
Masquerain @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Hurricane
- Bug Buzz
- Hydro Pump
- Quiver Dance
At first glance, the new Masquerain is pretty over because of its possible weakness to Stealth Rock and the presence of other Flying-types, such as Pelipper and Swellow. However, with access to Quiver Dance and high powered moves, it could stand out from the rest of the Flying types.
FEEDBACK:
It's pretty nice.
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1.Those are some drastic changes i stretched it with 3 but magic guard, hurricane and water type for stab hydro is a little extreme
Bug/Water
Masquerain @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Bug Buzz
- Hurricane
- Quiver Dance
At first glance, the new Masquerain is pretty over because of its possible weakness to Stealth Rock and the presence of other Water-types, such as Poliwrath and Simipour. However, with access to Quiver Dance, Magic Guard, and high powered moves, it could stand out from the rest of the Water types. I gave it Hurricane because its more powerful than Air Slash.
FEEDBACK:
It's pretty nice.
2.it moved onto sets without quiver dance
3.Jolly Nature?
They don't have to be all non QD, I just wanted to explore something other than the standard regular QD that seems pretty obvious (and bug/water is a significant change for that). TBH I think flying STAB does way more for it than the water STAB though, especially with magic guard taking out rocks weakness anyway
Ahhhh okay my mistake
Masquerain @ Life Orb/ focus sash
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Hurricane
- Bug Buzz
- Hydro Pump
- Quiver Dance/ sticky web
I thought I would suggest something a bit different from the "get rid of the rocks weakness" submissions. With no guard and hurricane, masquerain becomes a potent attacker that needs hazard removal to shine. Alternatively, a lead set that takes advantage of the offensive pressure to set sticky web could be used. As for flavor, no guard is already on mega pidgeot, and makes about as much sense now, and hurricane can be used by many other flying types.
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Hurricane
- Bug Buzz
- Hydro Pump
- Quiver Dance/ sticky web
I thought I would suggest something a bit different from the "get rid of the rocks weakness" submissions. With no guard and hurricane, masquerain becomes a potent attacker that needs hazard removal to shine. Alternatively, a lead set that takes advantage of the offensive pressure to set sticky web could be used. As for flavor, no guard is already on mega pidgeot, and makes about as much sense now, and hurricane can be used by many other flying types.
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