Other The OU Theorymon Project (CLOSED)

[U-Ralph]

I did my calcs with with 252 HP / 252+ Def because Snorlax deals with the physical threats a lot better with that spread.

• 252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Superpower vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ Def Snorlax: 300-354 (57.2 - 67.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
• 252+ Atk Conkeldurr Drain Punch vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ Def Snorlax: 180-212 (34.3 - 40.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Poison Heal
  
• 252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham High Jump Kick vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ Def Snorlax: 444-524 (84.7 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
  
• +1 0 Atk Snorlax Facade (140 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Medicham: 280-331 (107.2 - 126.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
  
• 252+ Atk Mega Heracross Close Combat vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ Def Snorlax: 356-420 (67.9 - 80.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
  
• +1 0 Atk Snorlax Facade (140 BP) vs. -1 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Heracross: 327-385 (89.8 - 105.7%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO (Mega Heracross does still have over a 62.5% chance of winning this battle, but 37.5% of the time Snorlax will come out on top; if SR is up Mega Heracross will always lose)

Mega Medicham and Mega Heracross may see a rise in usage because they can severely dent Snorlax, but they probably will end up dying themselves. Snorlax can easily boost to +3 against Conkeldurr and OHKO with Facade.

Hmm well, the standard AV conkeldurr is manage with that spread, I will blued it. Maybe, the only presence of snorlax will force it to use an other set ( CB/ bulk up) that will be interesting.
For heracross and medicham cases, i will keep them red as the snorlax presence is still benefit for them, even they can fail the OHKO after switching in.
If the defensive spread is the most used spread, then the snorlax presence will have no impact for the azumarill usage, but it's not true for other spread. Then i don't know if i have to put azumarill in blue or black.

 

[Red Cat]

Hmm well, the standard AV conkeldurr is manage with that spread, I will blued it. Maybe, the only presence of snorlax will force it to use an other set ( CB/ bulk up) that will be interesting.
For heracross and medicham cases, i will keep them red as the snorlax presence is still benefit for them, even they can fail the OHKO after switching in.
If the defensive spread is the most used spread, then the snorlax presence will have no impact for the azumarill usage, but it's not true for other spread. Then i don't know if i have to put azumarill in blue or black.

I personally like 252 HP / 252+ Def / 4 SDef to maximize the physical bulk. 4 HP / 252+ Def / 252 SDef is an alternative spread that gives Snorlax more special bulk at the cost of some physical bulk. You could also try spreads between the two, but max defense is a must to get the maximum potential out of Snorlax. 252 HP / 4 Def / 252+ SDef is just wasteful on Snorlax since it is already so good at taking hits from the special side. The two biggest special threats, Mega Charizard Y and Thundurus, are OHKOed by +1 Facade anyway, so taking hits from them is not as important as buffing up on the physical side.

 

[Salemance]

I believe that it goes without saying that in most cases, Mega Pinsir or Talonflame are his best friends when it comes to clearing Hera and Medi megas...

The potential of him just to be able to have a STAB that has higher base power than of that of almost all other physical attacks (with NO drawbacks) and recovery, I think he will end up being such an easy thing to use as he can become usable with little support built around him.

I myself am envisioning him being on a team of mine of Zapdos being his better physical wall (who would have a variety of stuff to abuse for him) along with one of those Flying demons. A steel type would be an obvious addition, but what team mates do yall envision being beneficial to the giant sleeper?

 

[U-Ralph]

I believe that it goes without saying that in most cases, Mega Pinsir or Talonflame are his best friends when it comes to clearing Hera and Medi megas...

The potential of him just to be able to have a STAB that has higher base power than of that of almost all other physical attacks (with NO drawbacks) and recovery, I think he will end up being such an easy thing to use as he can become usable with little support built around him.

I myself am envisioning him being on a team of mine of Zapdos being his better physical wall (who would have a variety of stuff to abuse for him) along with one of those Flying demons. A steel type would be an obvious addition, but what team mates do yall envision being beneficial to the giant sleeper?

Pokemons that can remove scizor and skarmory ---> magnezone :D

 

[ethan06]

Actually, after thinking a bit, there is no point to use crunch, facade makes higher damage, even against steel and rock type. Then you tell me, we want to be able to hit ghost ... well the only overused and overseen ghost that come to mind is aegislash which take higher damage with EQ (without mentioning his attack won't deacrease after a king shield). Moreover EQ can hit most annoying steel/rock types (excadrill/tyranitar/heatran/terrakion/bisharp) and can surprise them on the switch. After all, the only pokemons that benefit of crunck lack are Gengar (which disapeared from the meta since its mega form was banned), air balloon chandelure, Trevenant and Gourgeist. All those mons are quite rare and should not force snorlax using crunch.

This isn't strictly true... Gengar is still A- rank at the moment which is fairly common, and Air Balloon isn't unheard of on Aegislash. Pokémon like Gourgeist and Trevenant may even rise in popularity if Crunch isn't used as, even though they can't burn it, they can sit in front a resisted Eartquake all way and Leech Seed it to death, forcing it out. I think Crunch will be a thing...

 

[Red Cat]

I believe that it goes without saying that in most cases, Mega Pinsir or Talonflame are his best friends when it comes to clearing Hera and Medi megas...

The potential of him just to be able to have a STAB that has higher base power than of that of almost all other physical attacks (with NO drawbacks) and recovery, I think he will end up being such an easy thing to use as he can become usable with little support built around him.

I myself am envisioning him being on a team of mine of Zapdos being his better physical wall (who would have a variety of stuff to abuse for him) along with one of those Flying demons. A steel type would be an obvious addition, but what team mates do yall envision being beneficial to the giant sleeper?

Magnezone (got beat to that by U-Ralph) is a good option to get rid of Ferrothorn, Skarmory, and, to an extent, Mega Mawile which give Snorlax problems. It also provides a slow Volt Switch to get Snorlax in safely against a favorable matchup and activate Toxic Orb. Dual Screens can keep Snorlax safe for those first few turns while it boosts with Curse. Healing Wish can give Snorlax a second chance at a sweep if it gets banged up against a Fighting type. It would also be interesting to try Baton Passing it Ingrain with Smeargle which prevents phazing and provides even more recovery. Fighting and Steel types are its main problem, find a way to get rid of them and you're golden.

 

[acestriker19]

For the second slot I think zen headbutt is worth consideration as it hits both terrakion and gengar for SE damage. Zen Headbutt plus EQ (and facade ofc) gives lax perfect neutral coverage barring skarm and shedninja.

Edit: on second thought fire punch is probs better than EQ as the third move.

 

[U-Ralph]

This isn't strictly true... Gengar is still A- rank at the moment which is fairly common, and Air Balloon isn't unheard of on Aegislash. Pokémon like Gourgeist and Trevenant may even rise in popularity if Crunch isn't used as, even though they can't burn it, they can sit in front a resisted Eartquake all way and Leech Seed it to death, forcing it out. I think Crunch will be a thing...

I agree crunch stay usefull, and i went too far with gengar :p but earthquake deals better with top threats of the current meta. The choice will still depend of what your team is able to manage.

For the second slot I think zen headbutt is worth consideration as it hits both terrakion and gengar for SE damage. Zen Headbutt plus EQ (and facade ofc) gives lax perfect neutral coverage barring skarm and shedninja.

Neutral coverage is useless since facade hits harder (even if it is resisted); but zenheadbut could be a good surprise for fighting type for sure, in the same order of idea, fire punch may be usefull for ferrothorn and scizor

 

[The Bravest Bird]

I thought I'd jump into this discussion, so...

Poison Heal Snorlax is... interesting to say the least. Snorlax gets the ability to not be statused(assuming it's holding a Toxic Orb and/or is already poisoned) and gets twice as much recovery than leftovers at the cost of Fire and Ice resistances in Thick Fat. Though those resistances really help Snorlax, since it doesn't have any from its typing(aside from a Ghost immunity), some passive recovery and the fact that it can't get burned after being poisoned is a pretty nice trade-off.

Snorlax benefits from this in many ways. On the offensive spectrum, it's able to fire off STAB 140 BP facades due to being poisoned, and already has a pretty nice physical movepool including Earthquake, Wild Charge, Rock Slide, Superpower, Pursuit, the Elemental Punches, Iron Head, Seed Bomb, Zen Headbutt, Crunch, Outrage and Gunk Shot. It's able to attack from a variety of types, from Electric to Steel to Poison. Not only that, Snorlax has access to Curse, which can help increase its already nifty attack stat and its "meh" defense stat. On the defensive spectrum, it's able to spread Toxic around, has the ability to phase with Whirlwind, and SubToxic stall when necessary.

However, Poison Heal doesn't help the fact that it has a lack of resistances and a weakness to Fighting, and many fighting-types can come in and take care of Snorlax with their attacks, especially since they target Snorlax's lower defense stat. Curse can help somewhat with some defense boosts, but Snorlax still suffers from lack of recovery moves outside of RestTalk(which isn't as bad as before now that sleep mechanics have been reverted to Gen 4's). Defensively, it'd have a lot of competition with Gliscor, which has access to Roost, a great defensive typing, and superior defense(although Snorlax has more HP and Sp. Def). Offensively, Snorlax would have some competition with the bulky attackers in the tier, although Poison Heal heals as much as two turns of leftovers recovery.

Some potential sets...
Snorlax @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 80 HP / 176 Atk / 96 Def / 156 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Curse
- Fire Punch
- Facade
- Earthquake

This is Snorlax's good ol' Offensive Curse set. After a single curse, Snorlax is able to plow through some of OUs prominent threats, OHKOing Talonflame, Mega-zard Y, the Latis, and can pull a 2HKO on tank-zard X without rocks, and 2HKOs Chansey with just Facade. Earthquake pulls a KO on any Heatran after +1, and can help nail Lucario and Terrakion. Crunch doesn't get many KOs that Facade doesn't nab, but it helps nail Ghost-types and Bronzong. Other options include Fire Punch to nail Ferrothorn(2HKOs at +1), Scizor, and Mega Scizor(unless it's running max Defense and max HP, which is OHKOed at +2). This thing severely damages most of the metagame. It's possible to run Crunch in place of Fire Punch, but eventually Fire Punch will hit Ghosts hard enough.
This set has a few issues. Lack of reliable recovery outside of Poison Heal can hurt it, and it has a bit of a 4MSS. Without Crunch, it misses out on some KOs on Ghost-types, and without Fire Punch, it misses out on KOs of Ferrothorn, Skarmory, and Scizor. Something random that just came to mind is that Cofagrigus(lol) can get rid of Snorlax's Poison Heal with Mummy, and since the toxic is still technically racking up even while it has poison heal, the Toxic can come back to bite it. Also, if the opponent manages to burn Snorlax before the Toxic Orb activates, it's pretty much dead weight. Snorlax might also have some trouble coming in, with a lack of resistances and a weakness to fighting.

Most of what I wanted to say has already been stated, but...
Poison Heal Snorlax would need something that can counter(or at least check) Cofagrigus for reasons said above. Hard hitting special attackers can do the trick, such as Keldeo, which can 2HKO with Hydro Pump in the rain if scarfed and has a chance OHKO with Hydro Pump in rain if specs, or always 2HKO outside of rain if specs. Trick Room could really help Snorlax, but after a curse, it only has 3 turns to abuse it, although that's enough to pull at least one KO on something.

 

[fleurdyleurse]

Posion Heal Snorlax benefits it quite a lot. It finally has reliable recovery and can perform a CurseLax set very well. However, it does not have any resistances to come in on resisted attacks but has bulk. In fact, it does not need to rely on Return anymore and can actually use Facade and is immune to burns. This means that Rotom-W cannot counter it at all.
+1 0 Atk Snorlax Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-W: 169-199 (55.5 - 65.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 SpA Rotom-W Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Snorlax: 115-136 (21.9 - 25.9%) -- possible 7HKO after Poison Heal
However, it has a bit of 4MSS. Without Crunch, you can't hit Ghost-types. Without Fire Punch, you can't hit Scizor and Ferrothorn.
Snorlax also has a very wide movepool. The Elemental Punches, Superpower, Zen Headbutt and many more are part of it's movepool.
It's probably going to be very big in the metagame. It does have some trouble with Gourgeist-XL but:
+1 0 Atk Snorlax Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 118-140 (31.5 - 37.4%) -- 86.5% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Gourgeist-Super Seed Bomb vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ Def Snorlax: 55-66 (10.4 - 12.5%) -- possibly the worst move ever
So yeah. Arguably the best Theorymon ever.

 

[U-Ralph]

Posion Heal Snorlax benefits it quite a lot. It finally has reliable recovery and can perform a CurseLax set very well. However, it does not have any resistances to come in on resisted attacks but has bulk. In fact, it does not need to rely on Return anymore and can actually use Facade and is immune to burns. This means that Rotom-W cannot counter it at all.
+1 0 Atk Snorlax Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-W: 169-199 (55.5 - 65.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 SpA Rotom-W Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Snorlax: 115-136 (21.9 - 25.9%) -- possible 7HKO after Poison Heal
However, it has a bit of 4MSS. Without Crunch, you can't hit Ghost-types. Without Fire Punch, you can't hit Scizor and Ferrothorn.
Snorlax also has a very wide movepool. The Elemental Punches, Superpower, Zen Headbutt and many more are part of it's movepool.
It's probably going to be very big in the metagame. It does have some trouble with Gourgeist-XL but:
+1 0 Atk Snorlax Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 118-140 (31.5 - 37.4%) -- 86.5% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Gourgeist-Super Seed Bomb vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ Def Snorlax: 55-66 (10.4 - 12.5%) -- possibly the worst move ever
So yeah. Arguably the best Theorymon ever.

For the rotom calcs, you forgot pain split that may give some harder day for Snorlax even if it is still able to kill rotom.
I agree it can't run all the coverage moves it want, but, it will threaten your opponent as it won't know what coverage you are using, that is a nice boon for snorlax.
About Gourgeist, i totaly diagree, first Gourgeist will probably leech seed snorlax and avoid its recovery option while it is getting back an huge amount of HP : around 65HP + leftovers recovery ---> about 25% of its life every turn. Also it may have disable an remove the only snorlax move that can threaten it. In most case Gourgeist will force snorlax to switch out.

 

[Jaroda]

252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Mienshao High Jump Kick vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ Def Snorlax: 468-552 (89.3 - 105.3%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO

Best shot of OHKO at +1 with the most defensive EVs. The problem is if Snorlax has Protect (and I'd argue that it should so as to benefit from Poison Heal and Curse enough) then Mienshao could just outright kill himself.

252+ Atk Choice Band Teravolt Kyurem-B Outrage vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ Def Snorlax: 247-292 (47.1 - 55.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Poison Heal
0 Atk Snorlax Facade (140 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Kyurem-B: 163-193 (41.5 - 49.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Wow, that is scary. Banded KyuB Outrage can't 2HKO...

+1 0 Atk Snorlax Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Amoonguss: 220-261 (50.9 - 60.4%) -- 89.1% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
0 Atk Snorlax Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Amoonguss: 147-174 (34 - 40.2%) -- 35.3% chance to 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery
+1 0 Atk Snorlax Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Amoonguss: 158-188 (36.5 - 43.5%) -- 98.6% chance to 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery

OK, here is an interesting Snorlax check. Amoongus normally speed ties Snorlax, but will always go first thanks to Curse. With that, Clear Smog will neutralize any buffs Snorlax got no matter what and do pretty poor damage as you can see. After that, use Gastro Acid to change Snorlax's ability, and suddenly he is losing health rapidly as opposed to gaining it. And finally you can switch out safely to something else like Skarmory and Amoongus will use Regenerator to regain lost health, as he will always come out alive.

 

[U-Ralph]

252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Mienshao High Jump Kick vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ Def Snorlax: 468-552 (89.3 - 105.3%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO

Best shot of OHKO at +1 with the most defensive EVs. The problem is if Snorlax has Protect (and I'd argue that it should so as to benefit from Poison Heal and Curse enough) then Mienshao could just outright kill himself.

252+ Atk Choice Band Teravolt Kyurem-B Outrage vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ Def Snorlax: 247-292 (47.1 - 55.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Poison Heal
0 Atk Snorlax Facade (140 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Kyurem-B: 163-193 (41.5 - 49.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Wow, that is scary. Banded KyuB Outrage can't 2HKO...

+1 0 Atk Snorlax Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Amoonguss: 220-261 (50.9 - 60.4%) -- 89.1% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
0 Atk Snorlax Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Amoonguss: 147-174 (34 - 40.2%) -- 35.3% chance to 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery
+1 0 Atk Snorlax Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Amoonguss: 158-188 (36.5 - 43.5%) -- 98.6% chance to 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery

OK, here is an interesting Snorlax check. Amoongus normally speed ties Snorlax, but will always go first thanks to Curse. With that, Clear Smog will neutralize any buffs Snorlax got no matter what and do pretty poor damage as you can see. After that, use Gastro Acid to change Snorlax's ability, and suddenly he is losing health rapidly as opposed to gaining it. And finally you can switch out safely to something else like Skarmory and Amoongus will use Regenerator to regain lost health, as he will always come out alive.

For the mienshao case, reckless is an underated choice since it can use regenerator which is more usefull i guess, and like you said, even if it use reckless a snorlax protect may give it trouble. Then i don't think mienshao will raise in the usage rates. For amoonguss, it's a good point, it can fill several niches and in the same time counter snorlax. The snorlaw presence will probably be benefit for it.
BTW, it funny to see fire punch makes lower damage than facade, that will always surprise me.

 

[acestriker19]

Found arguably the hardest hard counter: Cofagrigus. Cofagrigus alone is a good reason to pack EQ because as soon as lax hits cofagrigus with a contact move it loses poison heal. I'm thinking cofagrigus will want to pack skill swap in addition to its normal defensive moves. Skill swap also means stockpile toxic stall lax (a set that should be discussed more IMO) is useless as cofagrigus can steal poison heal. Pain split keeps cofagrigus healthy all the way through the match. Unlike other counters cofagrigus is hard to get rid of because of his huge defensive stats, Neutral typing and WoW.

 

[aVocado]

U-Ralph I don't understand why you have Lucario crossed out. It's still a fearsome sweeper without its mega stone.

 

[U-Ralph]

U-Ralph I don't understand why you have Lucario crossed out. It's still a fearsome sweeper without its mega stone.

I was assuming it was the mega usage rate, but you're right, even if it's not its true rate, it may be usefull against snorlax.

 

[Salemance]

Found arguably the hardest hard counter: Cofagrigus. Cofagrigus alone is a good reason to pack EQ because as soon as lax hits cofagrigus with a contact move it loses poison heal. I'm thinking cofagrigus will want to pack skill swap in addition to its normal defensive moves. Skill swap also means stockpile toxic stall lax (a set that should be discussed more IMO) is useless as cofagrigus can steal poison heal. Pain split keeps cofagrigus healthy all the way through the match. Unlike other counters cofagrigus is hard to get rid of because of his huge defensive stats, Neutral typing and WoW.

Hmm, okay so with a flying type we can semi handle Amoon (regenerator makes everything a hassle) but Cof would be interesting to work around.

With a myriad of supportive options, Cof would nearly halt Snor in his rolling tracks. Pain Split off that huge HP stat, and defense to take on those hits, Cof would need to be handled by Snor's teammates almost definitely unless you want to attempt boosting through him...

I believe Gengar would make a nice assist for Snorlax in this regard, as he hurts the coffin on the weaker Sp. Def stat and can SubDisable most of Cof's harmful moves. Course Gengar can also make that Meinshao kick just hurt itself...so there's that.

And now I can't help but chuckle at the power of a Stockpile set...lord that seems worse to fight in some regards as it would have immediate power most likely.

 

[LoDart210]

I think the crazy thing about poison heal snorlax is that his facade hits so much harder than some coverage moves, meaning that when you pick a coverage move, you really must make sure it is outdamaging facade. Otherwise that is a slot wasted that could have gone to protect or toxic.

 

[U-Ralph]

I edited the list of pokemon, now we go until 135# in order to see pokemon as amoongus, cofragius, ... I also edited what the red color means, now it is for pokemon that have at least one set that counter snorlax to be sure they are not hidden is the blue color: that highlighted some pokemon i didn't think before, as unaware clefable.

 

[higglybiggly]

So I guess we exhausted all talk about Poison Heal Snorlax? This happened with a lot of the other theorymons too. The discussion time should probably be a little bit shorter so we don't consistently encounter this problem.

 

[Salemance]

So I guess we exhausted all talk about Poison Heal Snorlax? This happened with a lot of the other theorymons too. The discussion time should probably be a little bit shorter so we don't consistently encounter this problem.

I think we might have burnt ourselves out on it tbt. Not so much that there was a lack of discussion, just we went so crazy with it, we sorta ended it...

 

[LoDart210]

Yeah we were all so excited for it XD it won with the greatest majority this gen so far. We discussed optimal sets, coverage moves, and niche possibilities as well as counters all within a bunch.

I like a direct discussion with as little fluff and tail chasing as possible, but damn we burnt out.

Still, at least this time unlike the past few, the conversation wasn't forced, nor was it nonexistent. I'm looking forward to using poison heal snorlax when the new ladder sets up.

 

[Red Cat]

We had a good three pages of discussion on Snorlax which I think was good. I think part of the reason why discussion ended was because we centered on Curselax being by far its best set and there is only so much to say about it. Snorlax will definitely be good, but that does not mean it is versatile. I am very excited to test Snorlax out on the new ladder, and we may have more to say about it when we get that opportunity.

As for the discussion time, we could reduce it by a day. The discussion usually does get stale after 2 days. The only issue is that we don't want to crank out Theorymons too fast or the ladder will be saturated with them. We want the Theorymons to have an impact on OU, but we don't want our metagame to be completely about the Theorymons. If we had a strict 2 day discussion time, we would have about 10 Theorymons per month instead of 7-8. What do you all think is a reasonable number of Theorymons to have per month?

 

[Valmanway]

Yeah, not to be bossy or anything, but I think today's a good day to start a new theorymon. Anyone agree?

 

[LoDart210]

It's really up to alexwolf to change the conditions of the theorymon project.

However I don't think shortening discussions and cranking out more theorymons is the answer. Often times, (for example dragon/fairy altaria from the previous round) theorymons can inspire a lot of conversation, even if they are a little one dimensional. It's up to us to really examine how the Pokemon will impact the metagame, not just what set it will run and what it will beat.

So far we've discussed how snorlax would be used but not its affect.

For example, with curselax back in town, there is now another bulky set up sweeper available, and another who can't be burned.

Would this prompt an increase in phasing moves? Hazard stacking? Would the meta get even bulkier and slower? How would cookie cutter top threats handle this?


I'm not saying any theorymon, including this one, would make game changing waves, but this is theorymon, where we more theorize what would happen if such a Pokemon existed rather than suggest dreamlike changes to use on the ladder.​