BKC said it was fine to post, lots of people have discussed/requested this
Given discussion in the tournaments discord and other chats, many people have stated dissatisfaction with the WCoP format we adopted last year. I strongly believe we should consider making WCoP 4/6 SS OU + 2 SM OU + 2 ORAS OU with the tournament being redefined as updating alongside the Smogon Tournament generations. I am making this thread to discuss what may be wrong with the status quo and why we should consider this (or other) change(s). I realize that only certain ideas are realistic given the consequences any changes may have on this year's circuit and the balancing of the overall official circuit, so nothing in this post will be taken lightly and every idea will be explained to the best of my abilities.
Recent Backstory
The WCoP last year was moved to a format with all SS OU while dropping down to 8 slots instead of including old generations and having 10 slots. This idea received overwhelming support here, thus leading to TDs shifting the format prior to the tournament. Since then, the official tournament circuit has continued to work towards finding a balance, including the restructuring of SPL led by SoulWind's thread and revamping of SCL (formerly known as SSD) led by Hogg's thread.
Many people believed that all SS OU WCoP was best for bringing teams together as well as progressing the metagame; they cited prior editions of the tournament from years back as well as the potential for community growth being increased, which made sense as it was easiest to get into CG OU. In addition, it was stated that many teams struggled to fill a full line-up in the old format, which included many old generations that were hard for newer players to get up to speed in, especially against top competition.
The tournament itself had some new teams finding themselves at the top and even in playoff contention, which I view as a positive seeing as WCoP absolutely had an issue with the community growing restless with repeatedly seeing similar results. However, many players cited issues with the tournament being only one tier, causing disinterest. I do not have raw numerical data to back these claims and absolutely advocate for anyone who feels differently (or the same!!!) to post their thoughts in the thread, but the main issues as I understood them were:
The current strongest alternative is 4 or 6 SS OU + 2 SM OU + 2 ORAS OU (redefining the tournament to be consistently updating alongside the Smogon Tour generations). Specifics can be tinkered with if necessary of course (i.e: if people prefer 6+1+1 or something else, I am not attached to the specific numbers as much as I am the underlying concept).
This is essentially the "midground" solution to the tournament's format that is able to cater to the concerns of most people, specifically the ones addressed above that have been voiced since last WCoP. There will still be plenty of CG OU representation, finding itself in WCoP more than any other tournament and likely still with 6 of the previous 8 slots if we are ok expanding slightly from 8 to 10 total slots. I would argue this is more than enough for the demands of the community and to assure that teammates are able to work together in the most modern generation of OU, which is Smogon's flagship metagame.
With regards to the worries about having less experienced rosters cater to old generation slots, every roster should be able to accommodate to generations like ORAS and SM, which are both recent and still constantly evolving. Even if some of the fresh teams in qualifiers do not have people from back in ORAS (which I doubt will be an issue), the metagame is constantly evolving and there are plenty of resources present to get into the metagame. I will also happily work with RoA and ORAS contributors to make sure their resources such as the VR, Samples, etc. are updated to reflect the current metagame given the offensive renaissance it has experienced over the course of SPL thus far if this is truly a concern. I am aware that this proposal is coming from me, so if it is entertained, I will gladly go out of my way to make sure it is perceived as well as possible. The WCoP has a long history of being one of Smogon's best tournaments and I realize the weight of these potential changes.
To address some potential complaints:
If this is not possible to currently entertain, I strongly recommend the TDs or hosts put out a survey to the players of WCoP 2021 as to their feelings about the all CG OU format in order to obtain formal feedback and data on this topic that they can use moving forward. If that feedback is largely positive, great -- I am happy to be incorrect if people are having fun and the status quo is working. If not, then this proposal or the prior format with old generations should absolutely be circled back to as a future consideration. Tournaments are only successful if the players enjoy them. Our community is comprised of the players and we need to keep their thoughts as the first and foremost priority. As such, I strongly recommend people to share their thoughts in this thread, even if they disagree with my points. Thanks so much for reading!
TL;DR: We should consider reformatting WCoP to be 4/6 SS OU + 2 SM OU + 2 ORAS OU and redefining it to update alongside the Smogon Tour generations.
Given discussion in the tournaments discord and other chats, many people have stated dissatisfaction with the WCoP format we adopted last year. I strongly believe we should consider making WCoP 4/6 SS OU + 2 SM OU + 2 ORAS OU with the tournament being redefined as updating alongside the Smogon Tournament generations. I am making this thread to discuss what may be wrong with the status quo and why we should consider this (or other) change(s). I realize that only certain ideas are realistic given the consequences any changes may have on this year's circuit and the balancing of the overall official circuit, so nothing in this post will be taken lightly and every idea will be explained to the best of my abilities.
Recent Backstory
The WCoP last year was moved to a format with all SS OU while dropping down to 8 slots instead of including old generations and having 10 slots. This idea received overwhelming support here, thus leading to TDs shifting the format prior to the tournament. Since then, the official tournament circuit has continued to work towards finding a balance, including the restructuring of SPL led by SoulWind's thread and revamping of SCL (formerly known as SSD) led by Hogg's thread.
Many people believed that all SS OU WCoP was best for bringing teams together as well as progressing the metagame; they cited prior editions of the tournament from years back as well as the potential for community growth being increased, which made sense as it was easiest to get into CG OU. In addition, it was stated that many teams struggled to fill a full line-up in the old format, which included many old generations that were hard for newer players to get up to speed in, especially against top competition.
The tournament itself had some new teams finding themselves at the top and even in playoff contention, which I view as a positive seeing as WCoP absolutely had an issue with the community growing restless with repeatedly seeing similar results. However, many players cited issues with the tournament being only one tier, causing disinterest. I do not have raw numerical data to back these claims and absolutely advocate for anyone who feels differently (or the same!!!) to post their thoughts in the thread, but the main issues as I understood them were:
- Too many games of the same metagame caused for a less enjoyable experience
- During round 1 especially, many involved parties were burnt out of the tier by the end of the third week -- 384 SS OU games over 21 days is a Lot.
- By the end of the third week, rumor has it that many players had
nightmaresdreams about Magearna-Cinderace VoltTurn loops.
- By the end of the third week, rumor has it that many players had
- This leads to people being burnt out by the playoffs, which they may be a part of or would otherwise enjoy as spectators.
- There is little time for the metagame to adapt with potential bans mid-tournament given the structure of WCoP (more on this in the next point), which causes this undesirable dynamic to grow more prevalent over time.
- During round 1 especially, many involved parties were burnt out of the tier by the end of the third week -- 384 SS OU games over 21 days is a Lot.
- Potentially undesirable metagame states compromising the enjoyability of the WCoP experience
- While not directly tied to the tournament, the OU Council had a survey for tiering purposes of everyone involved. Over 150 parties responded and many stated that multiple Pokemon should be banned, which led to multiple bans happening in the following weeks.
- Specifics on this can be found here and it is worth noting that not all feedback was negative.
- Having the same potentially problematic Pokemon lingering in every single game over the course of a tournament is exhausting and did not resonate well with the playerbase.
- The tiering process has become quicker since then, integrating community feedback more than ever before. However, this does not come as a foolproof solution to this problem and it is not likely quickbans can happen for the sake of salvaging a single tournament.
- Look: I absolutely love SS OU, I am personally excited to play it, and I think we have improved our tiering process greatly with time, but given the brief turnaround of WCoP, having any official team tournament be only one tier seems like setting both the tier and the tournament up for failure.
- It is no surprise that people have been calling for 2 SS in SPL, 3 SS in Snake, etc. recently instead of the prior status quo of 3 or 4. It seems people enjoy seeing a greater variety of formats in general and the larger a sample size of a specific format, the greater chance there is for opposition to rise up after experiencing something deemed undesirable about the format.
- While not directly tied to the tournament, the OU Council had a survey for tiering purposes of everyone involved. Over 150 parties responded and many stated that multiple Pokemon should be banned, which led to multiple bans happening in the following weeks.
- Comparisons to prior all CG OU WCoPs turned out to be greatly inapplicable to modern tournament culture
- These were at the core of most arguments in favor of all CG OU, but quickly the circumstantial differences became clear.
- Old WCoPs happened when there was a lot less access to old generation play, less developed old generation communities, and/or a greater focus on the CG OU metagame throughout the community.
- Side-note: Anyone remember when we had to load up PO for specific old generation SPL games? Shit makes me feel like a boomer.
- The community as a whole was more closely-knit during the early 2010s when compared to now. In the modern day, we specialize a lot of what we do on Smogon and it splinters the community inadvertently. This is not necessarily a bad thing either, but it absolutely makes tournaments with multiple formats a greater fit.
- Arguably an extension of the prior point, but I do not think this shift in format brought teams together as closely as many imagined. Perhaps the European teams could speak highly of this given their success and if so, they absolutely should, but it did not seem particularly different, especially with a lot of people being less invested due to having tiers they played in prior editions cut out. One could argue this hurt the format before it was even given a chance, too.
- Old WCoPs happened when there was a lot less access to old generation play, less developed old generation communities, and/or a greater focus on the CG OU metagame throughout the community.
- These were at the core of most arguments in favor of all CG OU, but quickly the circumstantial differences became clear.
The current strongest alternative is 4 or 6 SS OU + 2 SM OU + 2 ORAS OU (redefining the tournament to be consistently updating alongside the Smogon Tour generations). Specifics can be tinkered with if necessary of course (i.e: if people prefer 6+1+1 or something else, I am not attached to the specific numbers as much as I am the underlying concept).
This is essentially the "midground" solution to the tournament's format that is able to cater to the concerns of most people, specifically the ones addressed above that have been voiced since last WCoP. There will still be plenty of CG OU representation, finding itself in WCoP more than any other tournament and likely still with 6 of the previous 8 slots if we are ok expanding slightly from 8 to 10 total slots. I would argue this is more than enough for the demands of the community and to assure that teammates are able to work together in the most modern generation of OU, which is Smogon's flagship metagame.
With regards to the worries about having less experienced rosters cater to old generation slots, every roster should be able to accommodate to generations like ORAS and SM, which are both recent and still constantly evolving. Even if some of the fresh teams in qualifiers do not have people from back in ORAS (which I doubt will be an issue), the metagame is constantly evolving and there are plenty of resources present to get into the metagame. I will also happily work with RoA and ORAS contributors to make sure their resources such as the VR, Samples, etc. are updated to reflect the current metagame given the offensive renaissance it has experienced over the course of SPL thus far if this is truly a concern. I am aware that this proposal is coming from me, so if it is entertained, I will gladly go out of my way to make sure it is perceived as well as possible. The WCoP has a long history of being one of Smogon's best tournaments and I realize the weight of these potential changes.
To address some potential complaints:
- Normally a proposal with some old generations, but not all old generations, can be construed as arbitrary. Aligning with the Smogon Tour tiers is able to avoid that, in my opinion.
- This does create some imbalance between old generation representation. However, I do not believe this is a bad thing and there is still nowhere saying that every old generation needs the exact same representation. In fact, this will become an impossibility once ORAS ages out of Smogon Tour as it will no longer be represented in an individual unless Smogon Classic adopts it or another tournament is created.
- Giving some emphasis to more recent old generations makes some sense to me as they are more likely to still be evolving as tiers and still have active, engaged playerbases, especially given that some people prefer not playing SS OU.
- This is also very easy to justify and maintain as it simply moves with Smogon Tour, having the oldest generation age out as a new one is released.
- .I understand that WCoP's rough definition as being a CG OU tournament, which was complimented by SPL being old generation centric and SSD (now SCL) being current generation tier centric, is going to have to be abandoned. Altering this to "recent generation OU tournament" does not change much at all though as this grouping already exists.
If this is not possible to currently entertain, I strongly recommend the TDs or hosts put out a survey to the players of WCoP 2021 as to their feelings about the all CG OU format in order to obtain formal feedback and data on this topic that they can use moving forward. If that feedback is largely positive, great -- I am happy to be incorrect if people are having fun and the status quo is working. If not, then this proposal or the prior format with old generations should absolutely be circled back to as a future consideration. Tournaments are only successful if the players enjoy them. Our community is comprised of the players and we need to keep their thoughts as the first and foremost priority. As such, I strongly recommend people to share their thoughts in this thread, even if they disagree with my points. Thanks so much for reading!
TL;DR: We should consider reformatting WCoP to be 4/6 SS OU + 2 SM OU + 2 ORAS OU and redefining it to update alongside the Smogon Tour generations.
Last edited by a moderator: