Hello! From what I've seen and read, this might be a very unpopular opinion, but I think Growlithe deserves to be at least in the D tier.
So far, I've been trying to use it in my team with this set:
Growlithe (F) @ Berry Juice/Expert Belt
Ability: Flash Fire
Level: 5
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 196 Atk / 116 SpD / 196 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flame Charge
- Wild Charge
- Crunch/Psychic Fangs
- Substitute/Morning Sun
The other Pokémons in my team are Mienfoo, Koffing, Staryu, Ferroseed and Natu.
Albeit inconsistent and weak to super-effective attacks, Growlithe has actually helped me win a bunch of games: obviously, Flame Charge can beat opponents such as Ferroseed, Grookey, Magnemite and Sandshrew, but also help the "fire dog" get a useful speed advantage against faster foes. Moreover, this move can be boosted by Flash Fire if you can time a substitution well enough.
Wild Charge is pretty good to defeat Carvanha (if you manage to hit it before a Protect) and Tentacool, whereas Crunch can be useful to (at least) keep the powerful Abra and Frillish in check. I suppose Psychic Fangs could be good against Mienfoo, but honestly I've replaced it pretty soon.
I admit Substitute might be the weakest move of the set, as it usually doesn't bring much help in keeping Growlithe healthy enough, so I'm figuring out if Morning Sun can be a better alternative.
Also, as said before, Growlithe is very weak to super-effective moves, such as Ponyta's High Horsepower and even things like Flip Turn (maybe an Eviolite can help it out?). However, with the right set-up, it might still be a nice alternative to Ponyta itself and Magby.
What do you all think about it?
Also, this is my first post ever on the forum, so hopefully I've done everything right.
I feel like Growlithe isn't the worst Pokemon to use per se.
It's just outclassed. Offensively, Ponyta has the
same type and ability and comes with Flare Blitz, Flame Charge, Wild Charge, and Morning Sun, just like Growlithe. However, Ponyta also comes with three key additions:
better coverage, higher attack, and higher speed. Defensively, Larvesta does a better job of checking physical threats like Mienfoo and Pawniard than Intimidate Growlithe due to it's
typing, ability, and U-turn.
First, let's talk about offensive Growlithe, starting with its moves. Growlithe has a few coverage moves that Ponyta lacks, such Crunch, Psychic Fangs, and Close Combat. However, none of these end up helping it too much besides Close Combat. Using Crunch, this Growlithe set only has a
0.4% chance to 2HKO Frillish - same as Wild Charge. Abra also gets obliterated by Flare Blitz, so Crunch doesn't help much in that matchup anyway. Psychic Fangs also does about the same damage to Mienfoo as Flare Blitz, and any relevant Pokemon that resists fire (even the psychic-weak Mareanie) takes more damage from Wild Charge than Psychic Fangs. Finally, Growlithe possesses Close Combat, which helps with the fire-resistant rock types of the tier in Onix and Tyrunt that aren't weak to Wild Charge. Additionally, Close Combat on this set only has a 50% chance to OHKO the fighting-weak Porygon unless it is has 0 HP and Defense investment. However, most Porygon sets run 36 EVs in Defense at the least, turning that into a 9.8% chance to OHKO.
As for the moves Ponyta has over Growltihe,
High Horsepower is really the only notable addition. This also lets Ponyta deal with the aforementioned rock types of Tyrunt and Onix, just like Growlithe with Close Combat, though it also does a bit more damage to Koffing than Flare Blitz.
Second,
Ponyta has a higher attack stat than Growlithe (85 attack compared to 70). This lets it do things like
guarantee 2HKO standard Frillish and defensive Staryu as well as have an
88.2% chance to OHKO Mareanie with Wild Charge. Additionally, High Horsepower does the same damage to Rock types such as Onix and Tyrunt as Growlithe's Close Combat despite the lower base power. Ponyta's STAB moves like Flare Blitz and Flame Charge also do much more damage to fire-weak and neutral targets, such as a
guaranteed OHKO on Defensive Foongus (Growlithe only has a 75% chance to OHKO) and a
guaranteed 2HKO on LC staple Bulky Pivot Mienfoo.
Finally, and most importantly,
Ponyta is much faster (90 speed compared to 60). This lets it hit the
crucial speed tier of 19, speed-tying Pokemon such as Abra and Staryu and only being outsped by Diglett and Elekid at 20 speed. This is much faster than Growlithe's 16 speed, and it means that Ponyta can threaten the majority of the metagame with its combination of high speed and attack. Additionally, with the +1 speed granted by Flame Charge, it can even
outspeed common scarfers like Porygon and Archen while also
outspeeding common sweepers who are also at +1 speed such as Carvanha and Tyrunt and threatening them out. Growlithe, on the other hand, is outsped by relevant Pokemon such as Grookey, Mienfoo, and the aformentioned Pokemon like Abra and Staryu while also speed-tying with pokemon such as Pawniard and Larvesta. To outspeed these foes, it must use Flame Charge to get the +1 speed boost, but even then it isn't nearly as threatening due to it's lower attack.
So, in my opinion,
there is literally no situation in which an offensive Growlithe is more effective than an offensive Ponyta. How about a defensive Growlithe set, however?
Here is an theoretical defensive Growlithe set I came up with:
Growlithe @ Eviolite
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 5
EVs: 156 HP / 36 Atk / 236 Def / 36 SpD / 36 Spe
Impish Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Wild Charge
- Morning Sun
- Will-O-Wisp
This set aims to use Growlithe's access to Intimidate and Will-O-Wisp in order to be a physical tank. This set lets it check offensive threats such as Mienfoo and Grookey while also punishing in Water type switch ins such as Staryu and Mareanie with damage from Wild Charge. With these EVs, a -1 Mienfoo only does 28-36% with High Jump Kick while a -1 Grookey can only do 24% damage max with Knock Off if Growlithe still has its Eviolite. Growlithe can then threaten these Pokemon out with Will-O-Wisp. Finally, Morning Sun is there for longevity to let Growlithe take hits throughout a battle.
On paper, this set seems actually pretty decent. However, this set is outclassed by another defensive fire type: Larvesta. Larvesta has three key differences that let it perform better than Growlithe in this role:
type, ability, and U-Turn.
Larvesta's partial bug typing crucially lets it
resist the fighting type attacks that are common in this tier from Fighting types such as Mienfoo and gives it a
double resistance to Grass, letting it easily counter non-Acrobatics Grookey. This means that Larvesta almost always takes less damage from the Pokemon it is meant to check than Growlithe. The only things Growlithe can claim over Larvesta in its typing is that it takes only 25% damage from Stealth Rock compared to Larvesta's 50% as well as a weakness to Flying. Due to its helpful resistances, however, I would argue that the benefits of Larvesta's typing FAR outweigh the drawbacks.
Second, Larvesta's ability
Flame Body is a much better deterrent to physical attackers than Growlithe's Intimidate. When a Growlithe switches in on a Pokemon like Mienfoo and Grookey, the -1 Attack much more often only helps the Growlithe take hits than the rest of its team. These Pokemon will commonly want to switch out or U-Turn to avoid a Will-O-Wisp burn, so unless one correctly predicts a switch or punishes an expected U-Turn from these Pokemon, Growlithe's teammates don't benefit from the damage debuff granted by the Intimidate as often as Growlithe does. Flame Body, on the other hand,
gives the user a much higher chance of leaving a Pokemon like Mienfoo or Grookey with a burn than just hoping they stay in and get burned by Will-O-Wisp. Plus, it can punish a Fake Out or U-Turn much more effectively by increasing the opportunities for a burn on the Pokemon. Plus, the Pokemon will stay burned the rest of the battle, meaning that Larvesta's teammates will be able to take hits from them regardless of whether the Larvesta was just in last turn (such as is the problem with Intimidate Growlithe). Finally, Intimidate means that Growlithe is unable to check Pawniard because it gives it a free Attack boost from Defiant. Larvesta has no such issue and can switch into Pawniard safely.
Finally,
Larvesta's access to U-Turn lets it act as a defensive pivot rather than just a tank, letting the user get momentum in the battle. If a Pokemon like Mienfoo or Grookey is worried about being burned, it will switch out. If one U-Turns on that switch, the user can bring in a Pokemon that can threaten whatever Pokemon the opponent switched into, giving the user an immediate advantage in the battle. Growlithe is unable to provide this niche and must rely on reads to get momentum on switches. Additionally, while Growlithe can punish switch ins like Staryu and Mareanie with damage from Wild Charge, Larvesta can simply U-Turn to another teammate who can threaten them without worrying about recoil damage.
In conclusion, Growlithe offers no sort of niche whatsoever and is outclassed by Ponyta offensively and Larvesta defensively. Thus, I believe that
Growlithe should remain Unranked on the LC Viability Rankings.
P.S. This is also my first post on the forum, so let me know if I've done it all right!