SV UU Metagame Discussion

[Bice]

Also adding on to the anti-Meowscarada dogpile, it often forces things like Alomomola and Cresselia to run Tera Poison in order to check it. Basically nothing walls Banded sets, and it has a degree of unpredictability with utility sets with (Toxic) Spikes and Taunt. Sucker Punch is also underrated imo, giving scarfers that attempt to beat it a nasty surprise. Oftentimes teams will have to rely on their own Meowscarada winning the speed tie in order to beat it, and even that can be moot if the Meowscarada is running scarf. Delete the cat pls thanks have a nice day

 

[Twilight]

Also adding on to the anti-Meowscarada dogpile, it often forces things like Alomomola and Cresselia to run Tera Poison in order to check it.

To be fair Cresselia running Tera Poison isn't solely because of Meow. Poison is just a good defensive typing and Cresselia has the bulk and recovery to pull it off. Not to mention it has Levitate to remove the Ground weakness making it more effective on it. I haven't seen Alomomola tera so I have no comments about that.

Regardless I don't disagree with the overall sentiment regarding Meow, it is a difficult Pokemon to switch into, and most of the time it makes progress regardless through Knock Off, U-turn, or hazards. This is made worse due to the Speed tier putting it above everything bar Talonflame, which is still a good Pokemon btw. I'm pretty indifferent about the mon myself but if it were to be looked at I would personally prefer a suspect but I acknowledge it is late into the month and if one were to start now, there is a good chance it just rises to OU (Not sure if that prevents one being possible or not). However, I think a council vote so soon would also be awkward to me given it was a unanimous DNB across the board (bar the two Abstains) literally a few days ago. H-Lilligant being banned definitely doesn't impact it much either. On that note, I also am not too fond of that ban myself and hope it gets a suspect at a later point. I didn't even know there was a plan to vote either, which the council is usually rather vocal about.

Moving away from that though, I would be interested to hear from a council member about what the best course of action would be regarding Meow (if any is needed), given it is picking up some community support to action.

Someone else in the thread brought up Greninja and I'd also like to echo I have found it rather difficult to deal with. In general, Greninja has few reliable pivots but with Battle Bond thrown into the mix I've been put into a lot of positions where it is difficult to consider sacking something, at least initially before it has been revealed. Not calling for tiering action but it might warrant keeping an eye on especially if people want Meow gone.

Stuff I used now.

Iron Leaves

Iron Leaves @ Booster Energy
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 96 HP / 160 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Leaf Blade
- Psyblade
- Close Combat

Iron Leaves is something I have been laddering with over the last day or two and it honestly is still capable of tearing apart a good portion of the tier like it used to. Skeli is a rather big nuisance but with the right support, you can pressure it enough especially if you force the Tera out of it. I have not seen it at all myself since we've had drops so I recommend more people give it a go. The EVs boost your Speed with Booster Energy.

Rocks

Hydreigon @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Dark Pulse
- U-turn
- Stealth Rock

I have come around to Hydreigon not being as busted as I expected it to be post-Hands, though I still consider it in my top 5. I wanted to bring up Rocks Drei in particular because it is actually a very good setter. It has a favorable matchup into basically every remover bar SpD H-Decid. On pretty much all of my offense I would much rather use this over other options. This set can also fit Draco so it has that immediate power but you can customize the coverage a little.

To end this post I shall provide a team with Iron Leaves that I have enjoyed using successfully.

Gyarados felt like a good offensive core to pressure Skeli + it gives a safety Fighting-type resist against Quaq etc. with Intimidate. Nothing else on the team is necessarily Tera reliant so it ended up fitting well in that regard too. Hydreigon also pressures Skeli and provides rocks + opportunities to get these mons in to set up. Donphan gives removal and the appreciated elec immunity. It provides enough offensive pressure to not feel like dead weight on the build and Sturdy can come in clutch. CB Scizor is so good and it fits well here with the good typing, power, and priority. Thief is just for Skeli but I've honestly never clicked it, you could swap it tbh. Used to have Gengar in the last slot but not having a Flying resist sucked so I swapped to Harcanine. I went with Scarf to help pick up KOs on stuff like CB Meow, Torn, Gren, etc. that may attempt to U-turn or just click their STAB. Having more reliability into the plague of offense felt better for me, granted I have seen stall twice since shifts so I dunno. I think the last slot I might experiment more with but I've liked the general structure of this offense so far.

 

[Askov]

might fall into jank category but are you tired of having your fat team getting ran over by thund volting + gknotting your checks? use this:

Gastrodon @ Float Stone
Ability: Storm Drain
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 248 HP / 28 SpA / 232 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Recover
- Earth Power
- Ice Beam
- Spikes

252 SpA Thundurus-Therian Grass Knot (40 BP) vs. 252 HP / 232+ SpD Gastrodon: 160-192 (37.5 - 45%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
28 SpA Gastrodon Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Thundurus-Therian: 150-178 (50.1 - 59.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Grass Knot (40 BP) vs. 252 HP / 232+ SpD Gastrodon: 166-198 (38.9 - 46.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

now you might ask me why would i use it over rindo berry? well, while it's true that rindo might be better for a single use throughout the game, float allows you to be a bit more ''consistent'' blocking volts from thund if you're running it on a realy fat team that'll give opportunities for thund to come a good amount of times during the game, and it's still able to help vs stuff like battle bond gren and random gknot glowbros/horoark in a pinch which is cool

 

[HydreigonTheChild]

i want to say how good muk is still... poison touch is incredible and it can force a shit ton of progress even after DLC drops since a team's way of pressuring it is via their ground or forcing a tera on smth

Muk-a has a really good MU into many threats and is a very valuable dark resist here in the meta... esp with florges, sylv, and tinkaton feeling less popular.

things such as gren, basculegion, skeledirge, slowking, torn-t, etc are easy to switch into often times and pressure with muk-a and being able to pressure opposing teams with poison. it is a great mon still and i wonder why sometimes it feels like people just dont use it..

 

[hariyana grande]

hi heres some thoughts i've been having



i just wanna talk about her real quick bc i feel like a lot of council's opinion on the ban was left in the dark for many people.

i was personally one of the ones who voted ban, and this just had to do with a few things.

there is already an abundance of threats in this new uu, and every slot feels important to have mons to deal with those threats. lilligant was a mon that could basically threaten everything, bar extremely uncommon mons right now like salamence/moltres. there was of course ways to even get past one of its most common counters, being skeledirge, with tera ghost blast. obviously there was some counterplay to this mon, mainly tera poison quagsire, but i overall felt like this mon was too restricting and locked u into using too few options which otherwise left you at the mercy of it missing its moves (when all of them are wide lens suddenly this becomes less of a thing to hope for). tera ghosts neutrality to a ton of things + a good speed stat to boost on mons trying to attack it + just good enough bulk to tank a hit and threaten game made it too much for me.

was the choice too hasty though? probably. things like dirge which I also initially felt were overbearing are starting to settle in fine, and while lilligant can threaten it with tera ghost, there is of course that opportunity cost being used. i'd say this mon prob deserves a retest after uuwc when things settle down a bit.

anyways, here's some of my thoughts on other mons

my opinion on battle bond gren has only been going up. at first like a lot of ppl i thought it'd be ass. then i was a believer after seeing it in some ou games, then i've been getting cooked by it on ladder so much and now i'm terrified of it. i wouldn't say its overbearing but its definitely one of the more threatening sweepers rn i think.

this is the best mon in the tier i think. incredibly self sufficient, the queen at progressing games, fast, strong, has utility via spikes, meow is phenomenal. is it too good? well i don't think so. at least for now. the biggest issue i've found using/seeing this mon is how it can often brute force teams by breaking with choice band and tera dark/grass alongside one of its stab moves, often just forgoing the prediction game and clicking through your team. of course cb sets are notorious for being worn down, especially by a mon thats hit by every hazard, and boots sets generally lack that power to just clean you late game. i see why the complaints are there and why so many ppl want this mon banned, but i think its only very very good, and not too much for the tier. yet, at least..

i feel like the dust has settled for the most part on people wanting gapdos banned, but just in case i'll give my two sents on it. personally i HATE clicking with this mon. there's so many good defensive pivots rn in stuff like torn, all the slowgang, quag and gastro (switching in to scarf sets at least), and scream tail.. this is all just for the most relevant (imo) defensive counterplay, and with how its either just not doing much with scarf unless it teras, or is easily forced out if its choiced banded, idk i dont see how ppl think its too good. i think its fair if its killing one, maybe two mons if it teras, but like, okay.. losing one mon for a tera sounds perfectly reasonable. after its traded brave birds into unresisted mons it's practically dead most of the time anyways. like i said, feel like the opinion on this mon is pretty unanimous but wanted to throw my opinion in there

overall i think the tier is in a good spot personally. there's a handful of mons im on the fence about in terms of if they're too good or not but i've been having a blast over the last week of playing
i'll prob write some stuff abt other mons later but man i didnt realize i wrote this much for only 4 mons LOL

 

[Feliburn]

this is the best mon in the tier i think. incredibly self sufficient, the queen at progressing games, fast, strong, has utility via spikes, meow is phenomenal. is it too good? well i don't think so. at least for now. the biggest issue i've found using/seeing this mon is how it can often brute force teams by breaking with choice band and tera dark/grass alongside one of its stab moves, often just forgoing the prediction game and clicking through your team. of course cb sets are notorious for being worn down, especially by a mon thats hit by every hazard, and boots sets generally lack that power to just clean you late game. i see why the complaints are there and why so many ppl want this mon banned, but i think its only very very good, and not too much for the tier. yet, at least..

Would you mind explaining a bit more why you don't think Meowscarada is broken? I don't mean to make it seem like I want this mon gone and I will attack everyone who thinks otherwise, but the only thing I could take from this post is that Meowscarada is brainless, strong, fast, offers utility, and that it takes damage from hazards. It's not like it's weak to hazards like Fire or Flying types, it just takes regular damage from them, and that just goes back to basic teambuilding and in game positioning, where you should just be trying to prevent or keep as little hazards as you can on the field when playing with breakers like this one. Meowscarada is a mon that fits on any style of team, so it's not like you are forced to go super offensive and forgo removal on teams with it.

Something that would help get your point go across is explaining how you deal with Meowscarada, be it a specific set of mons that help handle it while you try to break before the opponent breaks you, or just how you approach games against it. I'd just really like to see a compelling argument from a council member who openly said they don't think this mon is too good (or broken, same thing).

 

[hariyana grande]

Would you mind explaining a bit more why you don't think Meowscarada is broken? I don't mean to make it seem like I want this mon gone and I will attack everyone who thinks otherwise, but the only thing I could take from this post is that Meowscarada is brainless, strong, fast, offers utility, and that it takes damage from hazards. It's not like it's weak to hazards like Fire or Flying types, it just takes regular damage from them, and that just goes back to basic teambuilding and in game positioning, where you should just be trying to prevent or keep as little hazards as you can on the field when playing with breakers like this one. Meowscarada is a mon that fits on any style of team, so it's not like you are forced to go super offensive and forgo removal on teams with it.

Something that would help get your point go across is explaining how you deal with Meowscarada, be it a specific set of mons that help handle it while you try to break before the opponent breaks you, or just how you approach games against it. I'd just really like to see a compelling argument from a council member who openly said they don't think this mon is too good (or broken, same thing).

sure


these are probably the most consistent meow responses. although they all don't appreciate knock off, they can progress games in different ways while forcing meow out. if paired with wish from scream tail/alo this is probably as good as it's gonna get in terms of switching into meow.


then theres things that dont appreciate taking knock off by virtue of being weak to hazards, but can at least come in on its attacks, with the former two even being able to make progress in their own right via uturn/threatening meow


this handful of mons can of course handle meow's stabs perfectly fine, but they also fear play rough. there's obviously an opportunity cost when the meow user feels the need to not click one of its stabs/uturn/spikes, and if your even dissuading your opponent from clicking one of these moves i think thats good enough (as this move is mainly only seen on choice band from what i can tell)

finally, the most successful way i've found to beat meow is through offensive counterplay. there has been a HUGE uptick in choice scarfers and they've likely been popping up to counteract the meow usage

heres all of the things that are faster than meow and/or have a move that can threaten it out

, , , , , , , , ,


while i did nothing but praise meow in my post without stating many flaws, i do think the counterplay we have is sufficient enough to deal with it. that being said, i did state that i understand why the outcry is there, and I could easily be swayed into thinking the mon is broken with more of a sample size. I just think people could start utilizing counterplay for it that I think is truly enough to keep it in check

 

[Lily]

I've been laddering around 1700 for the past few days w/ two teams, one that uses CB Meow and one that uses Boots Meow. I've found CB Meow to be a bit underwhelming and I'm finding a lot of the posts here difficult to understand.

It's annoying how easy it is for scary mons to punish your choice lock. Flower Trick in particular is a really difficult click even tho it's very strong because the amount of things that get free setup off it (Ceruledge, Glowbro, Haxorus Hawlucha, Iron Leaves, Scizor, Salamence, Tornadus have all cooked me over the past couple days) is really high. Knock Off is kinda similar but with different targets; GMolt, Greninja (which is super scary), Hydreigon, Tyranitar, Enam-T, Quaquaval and random Tera users like Articuno-G have all been very frustrating. It definitely makes good progress but it's been really difficult for me to use, contrary to the ppl saying it's just a brainless click.

This is largely because I found it extremely difficult to adequately support Meowscarada in the ways I wanted to. I found that I needed good, solid speed control to make up for the fact that Meow was giving lots of things free chances to click, and that meant I needed a Scarfer that could handle stuff like +! Quaval, Haxorus, etc - I ended up with GZap which was good for sure but then I found myself struggling against Scizor a lot and I was giving it too many free turns for that, especially because I needed removal with CB Meow which couldn't adequately check Scizor either. Then I wanted my own hazard support and suddenly I was running out of teamslots and everytihng just kinda went to crap because there were only so many routes I could take with this mon; I ended up having to shoehorn a Skeledirge in and it didn't work out at all bc my entire team was getting cooked by every Ground type under the sun unless I tera'd and then I'd be too risky vs Scizor again:

That's just defensively; offensively it felt really difficult to fit the things that reportedly make Meow broken like Spikes and FSight because of the concessions I'd have to make vs a lot of things in the builder. Like for example, if I want to pair Slowking with Meow for the FSight pairing, I'm getting my ass handed to me by Basculegion. Or Quag + Meow which left me super owned by pretty much every strong special attacker I ran into, unless I paired with big fat special walls like Scream Tail, at which point I couldn't generate the turns I wanted for meow to begin with.

https://pokepast.es/8cbdcab7e0306694

All this is to say: I don't get how Meow is brainless, getting a billion chances to click, knocking off every item, spiking 300 times and uturning all its checks down to 50% before Flower Tricking everything to death. It doesn't get enough chances to do tha at all. Unless it's Boots - which is IMO a significantly better set and something I found much more success with. But it's not overbearing, it's pretty easy to handle that one defensively as long as you respect it in the builder; we have stuff like Hisuian Decidueye, Chesnaught, Tinkaton, Glowbro (Colbur is really good vs Meow!), Scizor, Overqwil, Salamence, Talonflame, etc probably plenty more I'm forgetting. Tons of good scarfers to check it with too, between GZap, Grafaiai, Gengar, Hydreigon, Quaquaval, Azelf and more.

Here are some replays that I got literally just now to illustrate the point:

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1908417779-8jmx2ord92o7a52pk97cphflddn6y9rpw - my opponent has a CB Meow and it's not really all that difficult for me to work around it even after giving it multiple free opportunities to click with Basculegion. The combination of Glowbro + Tinkaton is more than enough to keep it in check defensively and GZap can always revenge kill it if necessary.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1908421325-q3gth0b97jr4uq30t98wxs3s5iyvgfvpw - My opponent has Boots Meow + Magnezone which in theory should fuck up my Tinkaton-reliant team even further but because they can't break Donphan with Boots Meow well enough they end up getting punished anyway. Even if they had clicked Flower Trick, Boots Meow is unable to break Glowbro.

If your response to this post is "but those mons are unviable!!" or "your opponents used bad teams!!" - no, this meta is three weeks old and you haven't explored everything. I'm tired of that being the excuse everyone gives; "too niche", "bad in the meta" - you don't know what's good! Play more, build more! There's a ton of stuff you aren't using and a ton of stuff that I'm not using that's all very good, we haven't even began to exhaust all our options.

If nothing else, OU will probably take it back in a week or so. So if you really hate it that much, you don't have much more time to wait.

 

[Liz Angeles]

I really think tinkaton is the best mon in the meta rn. The increase of defensive options in the tier makes it far more versatile than it was pre home because its less pressed to blanket check like all the special attackers in the tier, allowing you to run far less sp def and instead invest pretty much wherever you want. I also think encore is far more droppable that it was pre home which opens up a lot of different moveset choices, although I still think encore is the best for consistently forcing progress. Another factor in tinkaton being great rn is zone teams feel a lot more like a mu fish than they did pre home, zone just really lacks utility in mus without tink rn and feels a lot harder to carry. Think there are still people sleeping on this mon a bit with all the new drops but I honestly think it's better than its ever been.

As far as meow and the other mons that have been discussed for a ban go I'm honestly fairly apathetic. I think lily summed it up pretty well when she said we don't really know whats good yet. I feel like every time I ladder I come away from it thinking a different mon is probably broken and mons I thought were crazy the day before seem mid. Definitely a super chaotic meta but in a genuinely fun way.

 

[Liquidocelot]

I think Breloom is just a little to strong for the tier right now as I think it beats pretty much every common core in the tier with ease.

Rock tomb, means no Flying types can switch in on it and with the speed drop and max speed it allows it to beat pretty much every non scarfer in the tier it also allows it to beat non Tera Dirge (Tera dirge loses to Bullet seed and is also spore bait.)

Spore means nothing but Grass types and Enamorous can switch in on it it safely. Enam hates taking a rock tomb and Meow loses to Mach punch. Meaning only Breloom and Iron Leaves want to switch into lest something be put to sleep and useless for the rest of the match.

Mach punch is stupidly strong for priority and allows it to beat pretty much any frail offensive mon.

And Bullet seed is ridiculously strong with Technician Stab, coming off base 130 attack and all the best walls in the tier are all ground or water types which make them basically insta lose to Breloom except dirge which I point again to tomb/spore bait.

 

[Bice]

click me for a fried chicken and baja blast combo
Here's a fun defensive core discovered by drey77s. Moltres punishes the physical threats that try to take advantage of Muk such as Dragon Dance Salamence and the many U-Turn users in the meta. In return, Muk sponges special attacks from the likes of Greninja and Basculegion while also spreading poison. Double status is great against offensive archetypes, especially against rising star Haxorus as its Lum Berry is often burnt up by poison, leaving it vulnerable to getting Will-O-Wisp'd.
Wish passers make for a fantastic partner for this core, with Scream Tail being an especially amazing partner due to its typing blanket checking several threats as well as its ability to act as Knock Off absorber. As these two are both vulnerable to physical Water-types, Alomomola is also an excellent option for a Wish passer. Hazard removal is also important, as Muk doesn't like carrying Boots and Moltres is vulnerable to Knock Off. Hisuian Decidueye is a good option due to soft-checking the physical Water-types this core loathes.

 

[Ram22]

I really think tinkaton is the best mon in the meta rn. The increase of defensive options in the tier makes it far more versatile than it was pre home because its less pressed to blanket check like all the special attackers in the tier, allowing you to run far less sp def and instead invest pretty much wherever you want. I also think encore is far more droppable that it was pre home which opens up a lot of different moveset choices, although I still think encore is the best for consistently forcing progress. Another factor in tinkaton being great rn is zone teams feel a lot more like a mu fish than they did pre home, zone just really lacks utility in mus without tink rn and feels a lot harder to carry. Think there are still people sleeping on this mon a bit with all the new drops but I honestly think it's better than its ever been.

As far as meow and the other mons that have been discussed for a ban go I'm honestly fairly apathetic. I think lily summed it up pretty well when she said we don't really know whats good yet. I feel like every time I ladder I come away from it thinking a different mon is probably broken and mons I thought were crazy the day before seem mid. Definitely a super chaotic meta but in a genuinely fun way.

You got any preferred spreads for Tinkaton atm? Ive still been stickin with SpDef Tink, but Id be interested in seein the new tech

 

[pokemonisfun]

might fall into jank category but are you tired of having your fat team getting ran over by thund volting + gknotting your checks? use this:

Gastrodon @ Float Stone
Ability: Storm Drain
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 248 HP / 28 SpA / 232 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Recover
- Earth Power
- Ice Beam
- Spikes

252 SpA Thundurus-Therian Grass Knot (40 BP) vs. 252 HP / 232+ SpD Gastrodon: 160-192 (37.5 - 45%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
28 SpA Gastrodon Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Thundurus-Therian: 150-178 (50.1 - 59.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Grass Knot (40 BP) vs. 252 HP / 232+ SpD Gastrodon: 166-198 (38.9 - 46.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

now you might ask me why would i use it over rindo berry? well, while it's true that rindo might be better for a single use throughout the game, float allows you to be a bit more ''consistent'' blocking volts from thund if you're running it on a realy fat team that'll give opportunities for thund to come a good amount of times during the game, and it's still able to help vs stuff like battle bond gren and random gknot glowbros/horoark in a pinch which is cool

proof of concept: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1909643827-qk4v4jluqdunmxllw2alpq36s5w7fzipw - Love the set!

 

[Negative Charge]

might fall into jank category but are you tired of having your fat team getting ran over by thund volting + gknotting your checks? use this:

Gastrodon @ Float Stone
Ability: Storm Drain
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 248 HP / 28 SpA / 232 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Recover
- Earth Power
- Ice Beam
- Spikes

252 SpA Thundurus-Therian Grass Knot (40 BP) vs. 252 HP / 232+ SpD Gastrodon: 160-192 (37.5 - 45%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
28 SpA Gastrodon Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Thundurus-Therian: 150-178 (50.1 - 59.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Grass Knot (40 BP) vs. 252 HP / 232+ SpD Gastrodon: 166-198 (38.9 - 46.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

now you might ask me why would i use it over rindo berry? well, while it's true that rindo might be better for a single use throughout the game, float allows you to be a bit more ''consistent'' blocking volts from thund if you're running it on a realy fat team that'll give opportunities for thund to come a good amount of times during the game, and it's still able to help vs stuff like battle bond gren and random gknot glowbros/horoark in a pinch which is cool

I would like to congratulate you for not only truly innovating but also giving an item that has existed for 13 years a use. I have used this set and I think it is about equally useful as covert cloak. Gastro has 4ISS (four item slot syndrome) but this definitely should be slashed on the main set.

 

[I am New]

I would like to congratulate you for not only truly innovating but also giving an item that has existed for 13 years a use. I have used this set and I think it is about equally useful as covert cloak. Gastro has 4ISS (four item slot syndrome) but this definitely should be slashed on the main set.

THIS set was used in gen 8 UU for same reason.

 

[Jonbot]

I’ve been using specs moltres recently and I think it’s surprisingly good, when it hits


:: @ Choice Specs
Ability: Flame Body
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Fire Blast
- Hurricane
- U-turn
- Tera Blast

This thing is a beast. It hits the vast majority of the tier for neutral damage and that’s all it needs. It 2 hit kos almost every mon, apart from spe def/av , , , and , most of which are terrified of earthquakes making them fairly easy to play around. is the exception to this but common mons like and can prevent it from being an issue fairly easily.

This set has a glaring and obvious weakness, the sneaky pebbles, but a well built team (eg: not mine) can play around this weakness and once gets on the field, nothing will survive. This mon is a beast and I encourage others to test it to see if it’s actually good and not a low ladder gimmick.

 

[BolTingBlazie]

THIS set was used in gen 8 UU for same reason.

I would like to congratulate you for not only truly innovating but also giving an item that has existed for 13 years a use. I have used this set and I think it is about equally useful as covert cloak. Gastro has 4ISS (four item slot syndrome) but this definitely should be slashed on the main set.

Dodging grass knot okho is huge honestly, especially when gren is such a huge threat

 

[HydreigonTheChild]

Mew @ Leftovers / Weakness Policy
Ability: Synchronize
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Iron Defense
- Stored Power
- Draining Kiss

This has funny value! ID CM late game can be such a funny win con esp once u get rid of things such as scizor, skeledirge, muk-a (before tera), and tinkaton. But once it works out it, it can be amazing! what can really stop it once u get going?

I would pair this with zone + smth to force the boots off or use muk-a to really make it a pain for it. Esp since skeledirge really uses it as setup as even with 2 CM's you are barely doing anything to it

+2 4 SpA Mew Stored Power (100 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Unaware Skeledirge: 136-162 (33 - 39.3%) -- 99.8% chance to 3HKO

So it is recommended that you get rid of it before you bring in mew late game, or get a WP cuz with 1 CM + WP trigger or more you can start doing some damage

+3 4 SpA Mew Stored Power (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Unaware Skeledirge: 192-226 (46.6 - 54.8%) -- 64.5% chance to 2HKO

This is a set i believe has a lot of potential but has some big roadblocks in its way which you have to account for

 

[Melt Gibson]

Just popping in to say that offensive Azelf is really crazy right now and I think a lot more people should be using it :)


Azelf @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Poison / Steel
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Psychic
- Fire Blast
- Energy Ball
- U-turn / Nasty Plot

Psychic/Fire/Grass is insane coverage, letting you smack things like Hippo, Gastrodon, Quagsire, Tinkaton, Magnezone, and Basculegion. You also get a surprisingly high amount of opportunities to click NP against a lot of slower threats that are scared of getting blasted and U-turn allows you to exploit the same targets for free momentum. Also gives you a handy way to deal with Breloom, which I've seen a lot of people complain about. While it's slower than some notable threats such as Meowscarada and Greninja, 115 base is still an excellent speed tier as well. Very good breaker and fast pivot that I think a lot of people should give a chance.

Also, in terms of my opinion on the meta: It's really good right now! Very big fan especially of Kleavor offense teams that allow you to forego a traditional hazard setter and just go all in on the gas. Balance does kinda get shredded, but as the dust settles and we get new drops, things will level out. I don't think anything is particularly broken at the moment, although there are some possible suspects I wouldn't be mad to see.

If I were to decide how to handle tiering action in the near future, this would be my plan:
1. Wait for UUWC to finish
2. Suspect test on re-allowing Lilligant-H into the tier
3. Put out a tiering survey now that UUWC is over and people will have tour results to look at for more grounded opinions on the meta
4. Take action as deemed necessary from the survey results.

that's all for now!! see y'all later :)

 

[ThatOneApple]

I feel like slither wing is a bit underrated, its got some nice use for the current meta to help force progress on teams, grab momentum, or even spread status.

First impression honestly hits a lot quite well, and its very useful killing or picking off sweepers like battle bond , , , and some others. While also just being threatening for a certain cat that can be annoying () (It even resists its stabs!).

Speaking of its defensive utility, it can come in on a lot of the defensive/utility mons like and to grab momentum for its team where something like couldnt.

Here are two teams i have where I felt slither did well

https://pokepast.es/4fe27ef056d40580


https://pokepast.es/54f11d1a8886be15

So yeah, maybe slither isnt actually underrated and im just dumb, maybe its bad and im just crazy, but i just feel its a bit underappreciated with all the new stuff going around.

(also maybe the teams arent too too great idk im still learning teambuilding so if they actually suck please go easy on me lol)

MINOR EDIT: The Dragmag team struggled with moltres, so the slither should be stun spore over morning sun to draw it in and para it so that magnezone can outspeed and kill it

 

[Ram22]

I've been playing around a little bit with Pickpocket Tinkaton after I saw someone use it in a UUWC game and I gotta say it's a pretty cool tech. Importantly, Pickpocket activates immediately AFTER knock off, allowing you to pretty much switch in and steal from Cyclizar, other Tinkaton, and to a lesser extent Donphan and Meowscarada pretty freely. Ive also found myself switching in and out Tinkaton throughout the match on weak hits and U-turns to get as many steals as possible (especially with wish support), which can really disrupt the opponents team Pickpocket can be a double edged sword, however, so you need to avoid stealing things like AV or Choice band if you arent ready to lose your utility moves yet.

On the flip side, there arent really a whole lot of uses for Mold Breaker in the current metagame (unless Im forgetting something), so there's little drawback to running Pickpocket if you play it well.

 

[MrE]

I feel like slither wing is a bit underrated, its got some nice use for the current meta to help force progress on teams, grab momentum, or even spread status.

First impression honestly hits a lot quite well, and its very useful killing or picking off sweepers like battle bond , , , and some others. While also just being threatening for a certain cat that can be annoying () (It even resists its stabs!).

Speaking of its defensive utility, it can come in on a lot of the defensive/utility mons like and to grab momentum for its team where something like :cyclizar couldnt.

Here are two teams i have where I felt slither did well

https://pokepast.es/4fe27ef056d40580


https://pokepast.es/54f11d1a8886be15

So yeah, maybe slither isnt actually underrated and im just dumb, maybe its bad and im just crazy, but i just feel its a bit underappreciated with all the new stuff going around.

(also maybe the teams arent too too great idk im still learning teambuilding so if they actually suck please go easy on me lol)

What's the slither wing spread for?

 

[ThatOneApple]

What's the slither wing spread for?

According to roxyroxyroxy (who i probably shouldve credited in the original post, my b), the spread is meant to be able to take stone axes from kleavor while being a resist to x scissor. While i do have tink on one team and donphan on another, tink feels like it can struggle to stay alive long term while donphan just takes so much from x scissor, so slither can act as a slow pivot that takes some of the load off of those 2.

Though on the real, the evs for attack and sp def could probably be redistributed if you'd like, but I've been having success with it so i left it as is

 

[ThatOneApple]

I've been playing around a little bit with Pickpocket Tinkaton after I saw someone use it in a UUWC game and I gotta say it's a pretty cool tech. Importantly, Pickpocket activates immediately AFTER knock off, allowing you to pretty much switch in and steal from Cyclizar, other Tinkaton, and to a lesser extent Donphan and Meowscarada pretty freely. Ive also found myself switching in and out Tinkaton throughout the match on weak hits and U-turns to get as many steals as possible (especially with wish support), which can really disrupt the opponents team Pickpocket can be a double edged sword, however, so you need to avoid stealing things like AV or Choice band if you arent ready to lose your utility moves yet.

On the flip side, there arent really a whole lot of uses for Mold Breaker in the current metagame (unless Im forgetting something), so there's little drawback to running Pickpocket if you play it well.

Can also switch into a-muk's knock and take its lefties! (no one is running black sludge this gen)

But yeah another plus to running pickpocket is that tink runs more physdef now to help vs things like and , meaning that it can switch into more powerful physical attacks to yoink some items.

Overall, i second pickpocket tink

 

[Roxyroxyroxy]

What's the slither wing spread for?

I originally had it for mixed defensive walling on balance, to be able to rank special hits and uturn out then with wilo be able to basically get more defense. You can go full physdef and drop special defense if you have something like alolan muk or scream.