Resource SV OU Viability Ranking Thread [ UPDATE: POST #751 ]

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Finchinator

-OUTL
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OU Leader
Sorry, it's been a really long week for me on a personal level; motivation is not great with Home looming overhead and me being really tired, so it took a few extra days. Thanks to everyone for your patience -- nobody really bothered me and that was really appreciated. Here is the slate:

Rises

  • :Baxcalibur: from A to A+
  • :Roaring Moon: from A to A+
  • :Hatterene: from A- to A
  • :Meowscarada: from A- to A
  • :Dondozo: from B+ to A-
  • :Scream Tail: from B to A-
  • :Iron Hands: from C+ to B-
  • :Cyclizar: from Uber/UR to C+
  • :Talonflame: from C to C+
  • :Golduck: from UR to C
  • :Haxorus: from UR to C
Drops
  • :Dragapult: from S- to A+
  • :Volcarona: from S- to A+
  • :Dragonite: from A+ to A
  • :Gholdengo: from A+ to A
  • :Walking Wake: from A to A-
  • :Clodsire: from A- to B+
  • :Garchomp: from A- to B+
  • :Greninja: from A- to B+
  • :Orthworm: from A- to UR
  • :Slowking: from A- to B+
  • :Torkoal: from A- to B+
  • :Scizor: from B+ to B
  • :Brute Bonnet: from B to B-
  • :Iron Jugulis: from B- to C+
  • :Quaquaval: from B- to C+
  • :Toedscruel: from B- to C+
  • :Iron Treads: from B- to C
  • :Grimmsnarl: from C+ to C
  • :Hawlucha: from C+ to C
  • :Iron Leaves: from C+ to C
  • :Abomasnow: from C to C-
  • :Gallade: from C to C-
  • :Masquerain: from C to C-
  • :Scovillain: from C to C-
  • :Tauros-Paldea-Fire: from C to C-
  • :Tyranitar: from C to C-
  • :Kilowattrel: from C to UR
  • :Rotom-Heat: from C- to UR
Feel free to ask questions about the rises and drops, but I will probably not get to them (or updating the OP) until late Sunday or Monday. Thanks!
 
Dragonite, Volc, Pult, and Gholdengo are getting replaced by the likes of Baxcalibur and Roaring Moon? Those 4 mons that dropped are still really good. I guess with no Shed Tail it is likely that their setup sweeping power will be worse, but they are still heavy hitters, much better than Bax or Moon imo still. Don't agree with the top end of this VR shift at all, from what I've seen, the drops make no sense.
 

Finchinator

-OUTL
is a Tournament Directoris a Top Social Media Contributoris a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Top Smogon Media Contributoris a Top Dedicated Tournament Hostis a Senior Staff Member Alumnusis a Smogon Discord Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Championis the defending OU Circuit Championis a Two-Time Former Old Generation Tournament Circuit Champion
OU Leader
Dragonite, Volc, Pult, and Gholdengo are getting replaced by the likes of Baxcalibur and Roaring Moon? Those 4 mons that dropped are still really good. I guess with no Shed Tail it is likely that their setup sweeping power will be worse, but they are still heavy hitters, much better than Bax or Moon imo still. Don't agree with the top end of this VR shift at all, from what I've seen, the drops make no sense.
The thread is open to questions, not claiming the collective opinion of both many posters in this thread and the entire VR council “makes no sense”.
 

RoiDadadou

Banned deucer.
Nothing too important regarding the drops, even if Dragonite will surely rise again, as the Band greatly appreciates Orth being gone, and is already seeing success at high level. Entirely deserved for Clodsire, that thing is ass. Baxca and Moon seem like they're very good, but maybe pushed by a 'still Shed' mentality, I'd say? The biggest and most worthy mentions are Hands, which I do feel like it could belong a lot in this new meta, having a way better MU versus fat and Unaware's than against Shed Offense, and of course, Meow. Which I still feel is a solid top 10 into the metagame. Its lead matchup is often impeccable, and Choice Band is among the biggest threats currently. I'll maybe post a few things later on, after people's opinions start getting deeper.
 
Salamence: UR to B-

I think Salamence can fit on many teams due to its Intimidate. It can also function as a great check to Ice Spinnerless Tusk, Gambit, and many other physical attackers. I got to really high ladder with this set:

Anchovies (Salamence) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Intimidate
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 88 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA / 164 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Hurricane
- Flamethrower
- Roost

Examples of Salamence being good:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1856060437-rlwfqhqzvapjo2g3s5ilcj3812hb8bbpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1856802663-beumxvb8x9gwbh3hgnmxi9liviavyz5pw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1857743770
 
Sorry, it's been a really long week for me on a personal level; motivation is not great with Home looming overhead and me being really tired, so it took a few extra days. Thanks to everyone for your patience -- nobody really bothered me and that was really appreciated.
Keep your chin up king. You've done amazing work so far and we have faith in you!
Home will be a challenge like no other and we wish you luck ^.^
-
Moon to A+
This mon is not on par with the other A+ mons, imo.

Is it just me or is Moon ass? Like not ass but I legit haven't vs one in, no joke, my past 40 battles, at least.
Dance set can still surprise some teams but I honestly think Nite/Bax does it far better. Haven't seen much Dance Pult but I assume it does it better as well.

Moon often has to tera as well to be amazing which is fine but personally, any mon that lowkey has to tera is not that great in my book.
There are some exceptions like Garg that are usually the dedicated tera on Balance and it's perfectly fine.
Moon being lackluster outside of tera, and the fact that Offense/HO likes to tera all sorts of things depending on the MU makes it p whack.
Taunt is nice forsure, but then you start running into 4MSS p hard. Taunt/Dance leaves you with two slots, which the best would be Crunch/EQ, but then Tusk exists. No dance, i mean what's the point really. No taunt, u lose to all the walls, straight up. Things like ID Corv, curse Garg, Dozo, etc just handle it. Band is w/e, p bad. Scarf is again w/e, just run Meow..
I know it's a Sun staple, but again, is it just me or is Sun hot ass?

Other than that basically agree on everything.
Bozo is no surprise and I think will end the meta at A+
Chomp and Wake will continue to drop. Chomp is actually terrible, ngl. Stop loading up chain chomp... it's bad.
I don't think Hands is quite B- but not mad at it. Wouldn't be surprised if it fell back down to C+
Bax is a real star lately, that thing gets to +2 and u don't have a Dozo Bozo clowning around in the back it's often GG
Which is why I don't think Moon is on the same level as Bax. I would 100% rather deal with a +1 Moon than a +1 Bax any day.
Again, only viable Moon I can think of is dance 3 attacks, which is walled by phys walls, and taunt dance which does have a niche, but I don't think that set is A+ material.
Moon isn't taking my dragon/dark slots any time soon in any capacity.
 
I'm curious about why Valiant didn't make into the S- rank, it is one of the most influential Pokémon in the tier with all the possible sets and roles it can use/fill and you can't built a team without having a check to a few of its sets on both, offensive and defensive teams.
 

1LDK

Light Up The Night
is a Top Team Rater
Chomp and Wake will continue to drop. Chomp is actually terrible, ngl. Stop loading up chain chomp... it's bad.
Madly agree, stop chain chomp, use choice band or scarf, of course its gonna be a terrible special attacker, because it was not designed to it

I'm curious about why Valiant didn't make into the S- rank, it is one of the most influential Pokémon in the tier with all the possible sets and roles it can use/fill and you can't built a team without having a check to a few of its sets on both, offensive and defensive teams.
From personal experience only
Just attack the valiant, don't let it scare you with the multiple sets, unless you're using a Dark or Dragon Type move, Valiant dies in 2 Hits straight, and sack the mon you have, so you can semi know the set, even if the pulls out a CM or a SD is not the end of the world really, its good, its super good, but I honestly feel more scared with specs
or just pack Sylveon + a Physical wall and call it a day lmao
 
What's up with the dramatic Scream Tail rise? It hasn't really been on my radar personally, so I'm curious as to its sudden surge. What kinds of teams/playstyles does it fit on (I'm guessing fatter builds), and what about its role on those teams puts Scream Tail as an A- tier Pokemon?
 
Sorry, it's been a really long week for me on a personal level; motivation is not great with Home looming overhead and me being really tired, so it took a few extra days. Thanks to everyone for your patience -- nobody really bothered me and that was really appreciated. Here is the slate:

Rises
  • :Baxcalibur: from A to A+
  • :Roaring Moon: from A to A+
  • :Hatterene: from A- to A
  • :Meowscarada: from A- to A
  • :Dondozo: from B+ to A-
  • :Scream Tail: from B to A-
  • :Iron Hands: from C+ to B-
  • :Cyclizar: from Uber/UR to C+
  • :Talonflame: from C to C+
  • :Golduck: from UR to C
  • :Haxorus: from UR to C
Drops
  • :Dragapult: from S- to A+
  • :Volcarona: from S- to A+
  • :Dragonite: from A+ to A
  • :Gholdengo: from A+ to A
  • :Walking Wake: from A to A-
  • :Clodsire: from A- to B+
  • :Garchomp: from A- to B+
  • :Greninja: from A- to B+
  • :Orthworm: from A- to UR
  • :Slowking: from A- to B+
  • :Torkoal: from A- to B+
  • :Scizor: from B+ to B
  • :Brute Bonnet: from B to B-
  • :Iron Jugulis: from B- to C+
  • :Quaquaval: from B- to C+
  • :Toedscruel: from B- to C+
  • :Iron Treads: from B- to C
  • :Grimmsnarl: from C+ to C
  • :Hawlucha: from C+ to C
  • :Iron Leaves: from C+ to C
  • :Abomasnow: from C to C-
  • :Gallade: from C to C-
  • :Masquerain: from C to C-
  • :Scovillain: from C to C-
  • :Tauros-Paldea-Fire: from C to C-
  • :Tyranitar: from C to C-
  • :Kilowattrel: from C to UR
  • :Rotom-Heat: from C- to UR
Feel free to ask questions about the rises and drops, but I will probably not get to them (or updating the OP) until late Sunday or Monday. Thanks!
Questions:
  1. With the removal of Shed Tail, I would've thought that Roaring Moon would stay as is in terms of VR. What's primarily driving the rise in ranking?
  2. In my mind, I would've thought that Bax would be S- given its two sets, DD and SD. What elements of the metagame are holding it back from reaching S-?
  3. Understandably, the TeraNormal ESpeed DNite sets are starting to become less effective over time, which would warrant a drop in VR. Does Dragonite's other sets (CB, Special + Roost) not offset the falloff of DDNite's effectiveness?
  4. In the VR, we see multiple elements of Sun dipping in VR ... except Scream Tail. The instances that I've seen Tail were on Sun builds, so what other team archetypes is Scream Tail finding effectiveness in?
  5. On a similar note, I've always thought that Screens + Haxorus would go hand-in-hand because of the latter's ability to break Unaware Pokemon. Outside of Screens, what other team archetypes is Haxorus seeing usage in?
  6. In his BaxHO RMT, Mav mentioned that Iron Moth is one of the few necessary Pokemon on HO because it is a grounded Poison that works well on HO. Would its ability to be a TSpike absorber on Offense (and HO, both of which are very effective in this current meta) warrant a rise in VR? What elements hold Iron Moth back from taking that step up?
Madly agree, stop chain chomp, use choice band or scarf, of course its gonna be a terrible special attacker, because it was not designed to it
MixChomp has been a thing since Gen IV. It's a Mixed wallbreaker, so it's not supposed to be a great Special Attacker. When it's a top threat in the metagame, MixChomp/ChainChomp works well because it baits the Physical walls/Steel-types that switch into a CB or SD Garchomp, only to be nailed by a Draco Meteor or a Fire Blast.

The set itself is not bad, but its reliant on Garchomp's threat level in the metagame. In SV, its Band, Scarf, and even SubSD sets aren't top shelf to begin with. Furthermore, we have a metagame that's actually fairly well-prepared for Garchomp overall, regardless of set.
 
Last edited:

1LDK

Light Up The Night
is a Top Team Rater
What's up with the dramatic Scream Tail rise? It hasn't really been on my radar personally, so I'm curious as to its sudden surge. What kinds of teams/playstyles does it fit on (I'm guessing fatter builds), and what about its role on those teams puts Scream Tail as an A- tier Pokemon?
Balance appreciate the support with tools like wish + encore, is superfast for a wall and bulky on the 2 sides, some guys have been using it on SPL and has been pretty successful

https://pokepast.es/599b76acc0f1d16c

This is a team that contains scream tail from the sample teams, I have been fighting this team for a long time, it's consistent
 
Keep your chin up king. You've done amazing work so far and we have faith in you!
Home will be a challenge like no other and we wish you luck ^.^
-
Moon to A+
This mon is not on par with the other A+ mons, imo.

Is it just me or is Moon ass? Like not ass but I legit haven't vs one in, no joke, my past 40 battles, at least.
Dance set can still surprise some teams but I honestly think Nite/Bax does it far better. Haven't seen much Dance Pult but I assume it does it better as well.

Moon often has to tera as well to be amazing which is fine but personally, any mon that lowkey has to tera is not that great in my book.
There are some exceptions like Garg that are usually the dedicated tera on Balance and it's perfectly fine.
Moon being lackluster outside of tera, and the fact that Offense/HO likes to tera all sorts of things depending on the MU makes it p whack.
Taunt is nice forsure, but then you start running into 4MSS p hard. Taunt/Dance leaves you with two slots, which the best would be Crunch/EQ, but then Tusk exists. No dance, i mean what's the point really. No taunt, u lose to all the walls, straight up. Things like ID Corv, curse Garg, Dozo, etc just handle it. Band is w/e, p bad. Scarf is again w/e, just run Meow..
I know it's a Sun staple, but again, is it just me or is Sun hot ass?

Chomp and Wake will continue to drop. Chomp is actually terrible, ngl. Stop loading up chain chomp... it's bad.
Moon has always felt naff to me, Dnite just does everything Moon does but better, has priority so can run bulk, has multiscale so getting the dd off is easier, easier to get multiple dds off because bulk, both have roost, both have taunt ect Dnite can also go special so feels way less of a one trick pony like Moon is.

Bax is seriously legit though idk why it's not S-

Chain chomp is ass yeh, tank and scarf chomps are the only good chomps imo.
 
What's up with the dramatic Scream Tail rise? It hasn't really been on my radar personally, so I'm curious as to its sudden surge. What kinds of teams/playstyles does it fit on (I'm guessing fatter builds), and what about its role on those teams puts Scream Tail as an A- tier Pokemon?
It's essentially the only viable Wish user.
Stall uses Alomomola for wish but it doesn't fit well on standard Balance/BO.
It's a mon that didn't really get explored or utilized properly until recently.
Questions:
  1. With the removal of Shed Tail, I would've thought that Roaring Moon would stay as is in terms of VR. What's primarily driving the rise in ranking?
  2. In my mind, I would've thought that Bax would be S- given its two sets, DD and SD. What elements of the metagame are holding it back from reaching S-?
  3. Understandably, the TeraNormal ESpeed DNite sets are starting to become less effective over time, which would warrant a drop in VR. Does Dragonite's other sets (CB, Special + Roost) not offset the falloff of DDNite's effectiveness?
  4. In the VR, we see multiple elements of Sun dipping in VR ... except Scream Tail. The instances that I've seen Tail were on Sun builds, so what other team archetypes is Scream Tail finding effectiveness in?
  5. In a similar note, I've always thought that Screens + Haxorus would go hand-in-hand because of the latter's ability to break Unaware Pokemon. Outside of Screens, what other team archetypes is Haxorus seeing usage in?
  6. In his BaxHO RMT, Mav mentioned that Iron Moth is one of the few necessary Pokemon on HO because it is a grounded Poison that works well on HO. Would its ability to be a TSpike absorber on Offense (and HO, both of which are very effective in this current meta) warrant a rise in VR? What elements hold Iron Moth back from taking that step up?
I love it when I have a rambling post where I barely managed to squeak out a coherent thought, then someone comes along and just does an amazing job touching on things I was trying to say.
Concise, thoughtful, and logical post dude. Fantastic... literally couldn't have said it better myself. Ty.

Moon has always felt naff to me, Dnite just does everything Moon does but better, has priority so can run bulk, has multiscale so getting the dd off is easier, easier to get multiple dds off because bulk ect.

Chain chomp is ass yeh, tank and scarf chomps are the only good chomps imo.
Yeah I love messing around w RH endure dtail chomp lol
Scarf is w/e, I think Tusk does scarf ground better but not mad at anyone who wants to mess around w scarf chomp.

The Moon thing came to me after I was trying to build a solid HO and it just like always let me down. I ended up running speed booster, taunt, 3 attacks to kinda get things in range for my other mons, but again, super lackluster mon without dance.
Even behind a shed tail sub, at +2 ada attack booster, walls were living, getting chip, and then Gambit would revenge lol- stuff like that idk.
It just doesn't really fit on HO, at least in a way that isn't outclassed by something else like Nite.
 
Sorry, it's been a really long week for me on a personal level; motivation is not great with Home looming overhead and me being really tired, so it took a few extra days. Thanks to everyone for your patience -- nobody really bothered me and that was really appreciated. Here is the slate:

Rises
  • :Baxcalibur: from A to A+
  • :Roaring Moon: from A to A+
  • :Hatterene: from A- to A
  • :Meowscarada: from A- to A
  • :Dondozo: from B+ to A-
  • :Scream Tail: from B to A-
  • :Iron Hands: from C+ to B-
  • :Cyclizar: from Uber/UR to C+
  • :Talonflame: from C to C+
  • :Golduck: from UR to C
  • :Haxorus: from UR to C
Drops
  • :Dragapult: from S- to A+
  • :Volcarona: from S- to A+
  • :Dragonite: from A+ to A
  • :Gholdengo: from A+ to A
  • :Walking Wake: from A to A-
  • :Clodsire: from A- to B+
  • :Garchomp: from A- to B+
  • :Greninja: from A- to B+
  • :Orthworm: from A- to UR
  • :Slowking: from A- to B+
  • :Torkoal: from A- to B+
  • :Scizor: from B+ to B
  • :Brute Bonnet: from B to B-
  • :Iron Jugulis: from B- to C+
  • :Quaquaval: from B- to C+
  • :Toedscruel: from B- to C+
  • :Iron Treads: from B- to C
  • :Grimmsnarl: from C+ to C
  • :Hawlucha: from C+ to C
  • :Iron Leaves: from C+ to C
  • :Abomasnow: from C to C-
  • :Gallade: from C to C-
  • :Masquerain: from C to C-
  • :Scovillain: from C to C-
  • :Tauros-Paldea-Fire: from C to C-
  • :Tyranitar: from C to C-
  • :Kilowattrel: from C to UR
  • :Rotom-Heat: from C- to UR
Feel free to ask questions about the rises and drops, but I will probably not get to them (or updating the OP) until late Sunday or Monday. Thanks!
None of these drops make sense.

Dragapult
Gholdengo
Garchomp
Quax
 
None of these drops make sense.

Dragapult
Gholdengo
Garchomp
Quax
Literally all of those make a lot of sense lol...

Pult is a menace but Garg keeps it in check and everyone has a Fairy or Tera Fairy for band darts
Gold is no longer seen as OP or a must have mon, still good be not as good as it was.
Chomp, shouldn't have to explain this one much. It has a bad lead MU vs common leads, and it just outclassed as a ground type and dragon type.
Quax has a good MU vs some paper HO but it's just a subpar mon when it comes to cleaning, sweeping, breaking, etc.
 
Can I inquire more about the drop of toedscruel? If anything I would presume that the orthworm ban and rise of glimmora (usage wise) would benefit it as it both has less competition in the lead MU and has a winning mu vs glimmora. Hat being more viable also makes its niche more important.

Also if possible could we get to see the slate? I'm curious on what got voted on
 

1LDK

Light Up The Night
is a Top Team Rater
MixChomp has been a thing since Gen IV. It's a Mixed wallbreaker, so it's not supposed to be a great Special Attacker. When it's a top threat in the metagame, MixChomp/ChainChomp works well because it baits the Physical walls/Steel-types that switch into a CB or SD Garchomp, only to be nailed by a Draco Meteor or a Fire Blast.
Yes, but I disagree that it's a good set in the context of gen 9

1) reason 1 being the over reliance on it, meaning that, so many ladder players using it, you eventually learn to not go to tusk on chomp and play around it differently

2) it has some consistency issues, it really needs LO for power, and once LO recoil kicks in, you know for certain is chain chomp, it also has trouble fitting either Fire Blast and Spikes alongside Rocks, EQ and Draco

3) While the amount of Physical walls this gen are great, the amount of steels right now is famously low, and while tera helps, it means sacrificing the tera token, now, steel tera is almost always a good idea, specially if is in a wall or a slow breaker, the problem is that Garganacl is also a thing, and so is strong ground types

You don't need to bait great tusk, it doesn't have reliable recovery, meaning that can be easily cut down on the course of the game, sure, this could be solved by wish support, but that only fits certain teams, I would rather play to its strengths that pretend to be something that it really is not
 
Curious about the Scream Tail and Moon rises moreso than anything.

Scream to me seems like a faster, weaker Hatt that can't bounce back hazards and/or set up, and I mean yeah she has Wish and fast Encore, but outside of that I don't see why you wouldn't just use Hatt on most teams. Not to mention I barely ever see her on the ladder, so idk what justifies a rise, much less to A-.

Moon also strikes me as a bit odd, considering that he's not only one of the biggest Tera hogs on HO, but also just lost a crucial piece of support in Shed Tail. Choiced sets are still there, but his STABs are so weak that he really can't threaten any of the best physical walls in the tier for ant meaning full damage without Tera, and even then he still thuds into Tusk like nothing else.
 
Why did dnite and pult drop? They both are still insanely strong lol. Same with wake, it dropping to low A also does not make sense to me as sun is still strong.
 
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