Resource SV OU Post-HOME Viability Ranking Thread [ Final Update: Post #280 ]

[Finchinator]

Curious what circumstances have changed to knock Ceruledge down so far; on a cursory glance it seems like it could still hold its own but what do I know

It’s really hard to fit onto teams and Unaware users are all pretty solid. That’s not to mention more Fire type competition, a trend towards Booster Energy spam on offensive archetypes it used to fit on, and individual presences that are new like LandoT, SamuH, Volcanion, etc. troubling it

 

[pokeclysm]

What developments specifically have made Clod fall all the way to C+?

This happened:

 

[Avira]

Finchinator, what makes Floatzel D-rank in viability while both Basculegion forms are B-rank? From what I've seen on ladder, many people still prefer Floatzel on rain teams because of the much better speed tier that allows it to get the jump on Booster Energy Iron Valiant and how Ice Spinner is better for hitting dragons without taking recoil from Wave Crash. I know Basculegion is a better mon on non-rain teams, but is the gap that significant so significant to warrant a D-ranking for Floatzel? I'm not convinced and believe that the meta hasn't changed THAT much to dunk on Floatzel aside from the addition of Volcanion to OU.

 

[Pokedom10]

I know the tiers are ordered alphabetically, but do you really think Baxcalibur is the real deal? I love it personally, we do really need to embrace the big numbers it creates with minimal drawback, but potential top 5? In an Enamorus meta?

Great work as always Finch!

 

[Return to Zero]

Kinda surprised to see Grimmsnarl all the way down in C, given how much of a stir Screens teams and Light Clay have been causing for a while now. Is it mostly an issue of Dragapult taking over its role?

 

[LandorusTBeatsGreatTusk]

Are Heatran and Volcanion to blame for Skeledirge's down fall? What other reasons could explain Dondozo thriving while Dirge is sunking?

What set is making Samurott A tier?

 

[Pabloaram]

Why Clodsire is C+?? Poor clodsire

 

[Magcargo]

Why was Iron Jugulis removed? Its speed tier advantage over Hydreigon / Hoopa seems like it'd be more valuable in a metagame w/ faster threats, esp since it gets the jump on Enamorus.

 

[cyrtie]

Are they sorted in their specific tiers in terms of viability for example is Dragapult the best mon in the tier or, since it is at the top of S tier

 

[Cuddly]

Why is Lilligant-H placed in B here? It feels like a C+ at best Pokemon imo. More than half the top 10 Pokemon resist its STABs and without the 50% boost from Misstle it hits as hard as a blade of grass to neutral targets.

 

[Poyourt_]

Kinda surprised to see Grimmsnarl all the way down in C, given how much of a stir Screens teams and Light Clay have been causing for a while now. Is it mostly an issue of Dragapult taking over its role?

Yes

 

[Finchinator]

Finchinator, what makes Floatzel D-rank in viability while both Basculegion forms are B-rank? From what I've seen on ladder, many people still prefer Floatzel on rain teams because of the much better speed tier that allows it to get the jump on Booster Energy Iron Valiant and how Ice Spinner is better for hitting dragons without taking recoil from Wave Crash. I know Basculegion is a better mon on non-rain teams, but is the gap that significant so significant to warrant a D-ranking for Floatzel? I'm not convinced and believe that the meta hasn't changed THAT much to dunk on Floatzel aside from the addition of Volcanion to OU.

Floatzel was one we were between C and D on, but there really hasn’t been much of it on high ladder or in WCOP while both Basculegion have surfaced a fair amount. Water Absorb, Dondozo, and a short shelf life surely haven’t helped and it’s not like Floatzel was particularly good entering HOME either.

 

[Finchinator]

I know the tiers are ordered alphabetically, but do you really think Baxcalibur is the real deal? I love it personally, we do really need to embrace the big numbers it creates with minimal drawback, but potential top 5? In an Enamorus meta?

Great work as always Finch!

What does Enamorus have to do with it? It oftentimes Tera’s away from the Fairy weakness and carries Ice Shard or DD. The correlation here is nonexistent, Imo.

With this in mind, Bax was a very easy A+ for us. Some one-time checks like Zama-H exist, but otherwise it’s just the old ones like Fairy Dozo. I’m pretty sure it’s closer to S- than it is to A, for example.

 

[Finchinator]

Kinda surprised to see Grimmsnarl all the way down in C, given how much of a stir Screens teams and Light Clay have been causing for a while now. Is it mostly an issue of Dragapult taking over its role?

Yea, we have seen a couple of other screens setters and screens has also died down a bit in popularity, so it was a fit for C. Still an improvement from pre-HOME, but not by a humongous margin.

 

[Finchinator]

Are Heatran and Volcanion to blame for Skeledirge's down fall? What other reasons could explain Dondozo thriving while Dirge is sunking?

What set is making Samurott A tier?

Dondozo’s extra physical bulk goes a long way against some of the stronger things we commonly see now like Kingambit and Baxcalibur. Skeledirge struggles with a lot of new Pokemon and isn’t the same caliber offensive presence it previously was, but it’s still alright.

Samurott-H uses a couple of sets ranging from Scarf to Sash Lead to occasional SD, CB, and even AV/Rest. Ceaseless Edge is an awesome move and Sharpness makes it p strong.

 

[malomyotismon]

Dondozo’s extra physical bulk goes a long way against some of the stronger things we commonly see now like Kingambit and Baxcalibur. Skeledirge struggles with a lot of new Pokemon and isn’t the same caliber offensive presence it previously was, but it’s still alright.

Samurott-H uses a couple of sets ranging from Scarf to Sash Lead to occasional SD, CB, and even AV/Rest. Ceaseless Edge is an awesome move and Sharpness makes it p strong.

Hey finch i was wondering whats helped the recently nerfed cressilia and the less of two genie forms therian enamorous have a decent level of vibility in B+

 

[Fenghuang]

Hey finch i was wondering whats helped the recently nerfed cressilia and the less of two genie forms therian enamorous have a decent level of vibility in B+

Cress is still good and benefits a lot from tera. It's a solid sweeper, and a decent support mon especially on trick room teams.

Enamorus-T has a solid defensive profile that makes it a decent sweeper in fat teams, B+ might be a bit high but idk if I'd put it below B.

 

[Finchinator]

Why Clodsire is C+?? Poor clodsire

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/sv-ou-post-home-viability-ranking-thread.3723863/#post-9688752

 

[Finchinator]

Why was Iron Jugulis removed? Its speed tier advantage over Hydreigon / Hoopa seems like it'd be more valuable in a metagame w/ faster threats, esp since it gets the jump on Enamorus.

Ngl I’ve seen a grand total of 1 Iron Jugulis since HOME was released, and it was during my climb up in the 1200s. It has never been too strong of an option, but now it faces so much competition and it is so reliant on a 70% move that it’s very hard to justify

 

[Finchinator]

Are they sorted in their specific tiers in terms of viability for example is Dragapult the best mon in the tier or, since it is at the top of S tier

Alphabetical within sub-tiers

 

[Finchinator]

Why is Lilligant-H placed in B here? It feels like a C+ at best Pokemon imo. More than half the top 10 Pokemon resist its STABs and without the 50% boost from Misstle it hits as hard as a blade of grass to neutral targets.

Between coverage/Teras and its complimentary moves, it gets a lot. It was a pretty trendy pick on HO and Sun, but it has taken a little bit. I could see B-

 

[658Greninja]

Good for Roaring Moon to be able to stay in the A tiers even with how rough its competition with Bax, Sneasler, and Valiant as sweepers.

Though I would have to ask.

Why is Scizor in C+? I would’ve expected it to be higher due to being able to rkill Enam/Bax/Valiant while also sniping Tera Fairy mons.

 

[Fusion Flare]

I see that Iron Treads got a bit of a boost in the rankings. It generally is still overshadowed by its past counterpart, but this is an improvement over wallowing in the C rankings. What changed?

 

[Mimikyu Stardust]

I see that Iron Treads got a bit of a boost in the rankings. It generally is still overshadowed by its past counterpart, but this is an improvement over wallowing in the C rankings. What changed?

Iron Treads is still an amazing HO mon with it able to counter glimmora and beat sandy shocks with tera and being the most reliable spinner on those teams, and with the addition of zapdos it now has a niche of being able to wall it reliably and spin on it (as long as its not heat wave, which is rare) and being the ground type of choice for most rain teams.

 

[awyp]

What pushed Iron Valiant to S tier from Pre HOME?

Why is Cinderace not A but just A-? Court Change is very impactful when it comes to screens and entry hazard. Cinderace sis usually able to switch in on Fairy moves quite easy, and provides the ability to Wisp physical attackers in front of it as well as providing solid pivoting with Uturn?