There's about zero new additions though. I'm not sure where this idea that Ape is getting new counterplay from HOME is coming from. It's not gonna be any more manageable for bulky teams.
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion
- Thread starter TPP
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Walking Wake rolls over 95% of offensive teams, but in the grand scheme of the meta, he's balanced because defensive teams can wall him entirely (Slowking, water absorb Clodsire, etc).
Whether bulky teams gain a direct answer to Annihilape or not isn't necessarily the deciding factor. What matters is whether Annihilape gives an unfair advantage to the user.
If Annihilape destroys stall but auto-loses to offense? He will be balanced in the grand scheme of the meta.
Only way to know for sure is to re-test.
I personally don't know if he will be unbanned permanently (he very well might not be) but I think it's worth a test.
Annihilape doesn't autolose to anything except hyper offense though. It still has a pretty good matchup into both balance and Bulky offense. Also Waking Wake dosen't "roll over offense" booster val exsit
What?
I always run offense and Wake is barely an issue, isn't that fast so gets a kill at best and the need of sun is super exploitable.
The main speculation I've read is that, regardless of whether transfer moves don't happen, Zapdos and Tornadus-T both fit in bulky teams and rip into no-Tera Annihilape. Zapdos also makes Annihilape regret using Tera Water, forcing it to use something else like Tera Fire or Tera Fairy.
yea this was maybe true in the first week that WW released and people didn't know how to handle it but the best offensive mon in the tier is a fairy that can a) abuse booster energy as well and b) naturally outspeeds wake. This is ignoring how mediocre sun feels vs most offense as well. Nothing like that seems like it will be true for ape's matchup vs balance/stall once HOME releases. As I've said before, the fundamental problem is just that Rage Fist makes it that Ape is so heavily favored to win the war of attrition vs any bulky team it's ridiculousWhat?
Tera water -> WW survives moonblast and OHKO's Valiant even after a moonblast SpA drop (or calm mind)
A nice pile of quality Flying-types is just what defensive teams ordered to deal with irritating Annihilapes, and HOME is ready with the treatment.
And then Ape terad and invalidated all those shiny new fliers and went back to having no real reliable defensive play.
It always finds it's way back to Tera, doesn't it? If the mechanic ever got resuspected, I get the feeling the outcome would be quite different now there's been time to cook
If not for tera, it would have never been banned the first time... defensive Gholdengo easily fits on stall and can handle Annihilape w/o tera just fine.
Tera does make the Ape a lot harder to plan around, however we now have Zoro-H (immune to both STABs and hard walls the original sets) + all the mons from home. It's worth a test.
I think Ape probably should stay in Ubers since I've mentioned before I think the same issue is it's ability to Tera. I do understand the council though deciding to give it another shot post HOME
I agree that Zoroark-Hisui is the biggest check to Ape. If you switch Zoro-H in on a bulk up, you basically force a free turn if it lacks coverage (making it run night slash for that one MU would be funny) or even 2 if it doesn't catch on to the illusion. Nasty plot setup opportunities on such a powerful sweeper can end a game in one call, meaning seeing it in team preview adds a ton of pressure to the Annihilape user.
1: ape is degenerate, please do not allow it back in OU
2: The reason SP Mag was so broken last generation was because it gave you coverage to hit things and gave you more recovery because you could afford to run Draining Kiss. Tera gives it whatever coverage it wants (ground) or lets it just break through its checks with adaptability soul-heart fleur cannons
3: stop saying magearna should stay in OU because it's good for the meta. Tiering action happens based on whether the mon is broken or overcentralizing, not what effect it has on the meta. The sole exception is GSC Snorlax because there are so few pokemon in OU and the tier developed before this philosophy took effect
4: Tera is the common denominator that makes all the borderline pokemon busted and the tier feel terrible to play
2: The reason SP Mag was so broken last generation was because it gave you coverage to hit things and gave you more recovery because you could afford to run Draining Kiss. Tera gives it whatever coverage it wants (ground) or lets it just break through its checks with adaptability soul-heart fleur cannons
3: stop saying magearna should stay in OU because it's good for the meta. Tiering action happens based on whether the mon is broken or overcentralizing, not what effect it has on the meta. The sole exception is GSC Snorlax because there are so few pokemon in OU and the tier developed before this philosophy took effect
4: Tera is the common denominator that makes all the borderline pokemon busted and the tier feel terrible to play
Bundle or mane is definitely the other unanimous one
My money is on bundle though, since specs bundle was that obscene when it was legal
My money is on bundle though, since specs bundle was that obscene when it was legal
Its balanced mainly because you have to commit to sun or rain to get full mileage out of wake, which can make it pretty predictable sometimes and easy to play around
I do feel like Ape is the least broken of it, Lando-I, and Mag, but it does have that whole “completely invalidates an entire play style” thing going for it that might make it more banworthy. Hope it can find a way to stay OU, I think rage fist is a cool mechanic and incentivized unique styles of play
Was the previous Ape leak accurate ?
Cause we might already have our answer
Cause we might already have our answer
The only coverage SP Mag needs is a way to hit Dark types, which it already has. It was also already banned last gen, so your rant about Tera is mute.
Excited to see just how many times “Hisuian Zoroark” gets mentioned in this thread over the next 24 hours.
Riiiiiight, Gholdengo the Ghost-type Pokemon easily absorbs boosted STAB Rage Fist. I must have missed that counterplay.
except that steel types exist and wall it forever and fire types if they switch in immediately aren't taking too much from non-stab 60 BP stored power and without Tera you don't have coverage for either of them, nor can you change your type to resist their moves. Also, I was talking about Tera as a whole mechanic, not just on Stored Power Mag sets. It's a bit rude to say my entire anti-tera post is illegitimate based off disproving one potential use of the mechanic, even if we assume you were right.
Annihilape will remain banned from SV OU upon the release of Pokemon HOME: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/sv-ou-home-tiering-announcements.3721859/#post-9632397
4 Atk Annihilape Rage Fist vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gholdengo: 92-110 (24.3 - 29.1%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery (stall break set with max HP/speed)
252 Atk Annihilape Rage Fist vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gholdengo: 114-134 (30.1 - 35.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery (offensive set with max atk/speed)
Don't press U-Turn when you see Annihilape (it boosts rage fist) and defensive Gholdengo could switch in every time.
The problem is when Annihilape uses tera, it's no longer weak to Gholdengo's ghost moves, which means Gholdengo can no longer win the war.
Hzoro is mainly used on the types of teams that match up well into Annihilape anyway so it's not a huge difference. If we had a bulky Normal/Ghost it'd be a different story.
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