Okay but hear me out
MorkaLaboratory
Anyways, I hope gf gives us the rest of Eveelutions already, so that this forum can be even more bloated with them lmaoooo
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion
- Thread starter TPP
- Start date
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MorkaLaboratory
Anyways, I hope gf gives us the rest of Eveelutions already, so that this forum can be even more bloated with them lmaoooo
Makes me wonder if fellow Eeveelution Umbreon could help to wall Hisuian Zoroark since Umbreon is naturally very bulky
If it's a Tera Fairy/Fighting variant, no. Umbreon will get nuked. Also, if H-Z carries Focus Miss.
Wake in Sun teams is quite broken imo. It definitely creates some overcentralization and that's hard to deny. While Choice Specs sets are getting easier to play around, Wake can also hold Life Orb or Mystic Water, and use Tera in a suitable time to blow past its checks.
Wake has a free 4th moveslot available where it can fit things like Sunny Day, Agility or even Dragon Tail (not just Tera Blast). It's definitely not as flexible as Palafin and definitely requires more support, but Wake is far from a one trick pony.
I don't think Wake is broken overall, but more adaptable than people think. Tera Poison sets are popping up to beat the fairies, for example.
After playing for a good while, I can say I find Walking Wake to be really good but not really broken. It's more than manageable outside sun and I haven't felt the need to go out of my way to prep for it. It can feel very suffocating in sun though, but I still think it is possible to play around and besides, sun isn't the mostt consistent strategy.
On a side note H-Zoroark is underrated, it puts in a lot of work. I've been using Bitter Malice, it's pretty neat despite the 5 less BP from Shadow Ball. A lot of switchins to Zoroark don't like having their Atk dropped. I've even 1v1'd a Dragonite with bitter malicw since it can't setup with DD. I don't think it'll stay in OU, UU at lowest (which I think it's gonna destroy) but it definitely has a niche.
On a side note H-Zoroark is underrated, it puts in a lot of work. I've been using Bitter Malice, it's pretty neat despite the 5 less BP from Shadow Ball. A lot of switchins to Zoroark don't like having their Atk dropped. I've even 1v1'd a Dragonite with bitter malicw since it can't setup with DD. I don't think it'll stay in OU, UU at lowest (which I think it's gonna destroy) but it definitely has a niche.
A bit late to the discussion, but I think there's more to WW and Hydro Steam than just "it gets boosted in sun, therefore it's broken"; I feel like the synergy between Protosynthesis boosting WW's speed/SpA and a secondary offensive typing in Dragon (a near-unresisted combo) propels it to a level of power in that you could literally spam it and one of either of its Dragon STABs as much as you want at basically no penalty at all due to how ungodly powerful the combination is. I guess you could compare it to how Chi-Yu functioned in the tier, only slightly less nuclear due to its lower base Special Attack. People wouldn't be hyping up Walking Wake as this unstoppable force if it didn't have an incredible synergy between its ability and moves...which it does. I don't personally think it's broken, but I can't deny that Hydro Steam is the most fucked move it could possibly ask for. It's a perfect accuracy Water-type move that gets boosted to 120 BP in sun on top of its ability boosting its stats in sun, of course it's going to be great.
Plus it also gets boosted in the rain, which is nice. I mean, Surf or Hydro Pump are probably better for that role but I mean if we're oversimplifying moves to just their BP I might as well mention that.
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Zoroark Hisui is better than I expected - not only because of its immunties, but being able to spread will o wisp as well
However, I am not sure what I item I should run. I tried Throat Spray but it does not work as expected
Hyper Voice
Bitter Malice
Will-O-Wisp
Flamethrower
max speed max special attacks
However, I am not sure what I item I should run. I tried Throat Spray but it does not work as expected
Hyper Voice
Bitter Malice
Will-O-Wisp
Flamethrower
max speed max special attacks
I personally like running the Choice Specs set but if you don't want to be stuck on a move I would recommend going with Heavy Duty Boots to work with Will-O-Wisp / Knock Off
Usually takes a couple days, guess will be done by the weekend. https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/usage-based-tier-update-for-march-2023-an-aroma-of-pu.3717197/ just went up, which has some preliminary info
Armarouge??????
Armarouge moved from UU to OU
You know why right? the Psyspam that has been used in the last month prior to the ban.
It was a fantastic mon but I don't if it'll be used as commonly due to Espathra being Ubers now. I think it might drop next month depending on the meta right now.
The psychic spam team is kinda popular rn, if you take a look a bit lower, Polt and Indedee have almost the same usage.
Baxcalibur went from UUBL to Top 15 in usage... safe to say it has secured its place in the post-Chien Pao metagame as a formidable wall breaker and sweeper.
I thought Ceruledge and Quaquaval might drop but they both managed to stay, the rising popularity of Sun teams is probably good for Ceruledge as its Weak Armor Tera Grass Solar Blade sets are commonly featured on Sun.
I thought Ceruledge and Quaquaval might drop but they both managed to stay, the rising popularity of Sun teams is probably good for Ceruledge as its Weak Armor Tera Grass Solar Blade sets are commonly featured on Sun.
I just don't get how Ceruledge keeps avoiding to go UU, this month it even increased in usage 
Wait, I didn't see it was #15, that's a big surge, also Dragapult flew up to #4. Chien's ban benefited them quite a lot, sadly it also helped the ugly cat which is at #12.
The rises were pretty obvious so idk if there’s a whole lot to say. Ceruledge is also underrated (its the Volc check the unbathe keep crying about) but yes it will be hard to fit when there are better options normally. Also the ladder loves the duck that mon will be OU for awhile, running the most cursed sets like Covert Cloak on it 
I quite like the idea of either Sunny Day or Substitute as the fourth move if not running specs. Admittedly I've not played with Wake much since I've been busy but if a lot of what people are using against it (Clod, Slowking) relies on status to force Wake out, you can just sub on them and continue blasting. Also lets you more safely beat Water Garg and not eat a million damage from Salt Cure if it comes in after you knock something out.
You don't do much to Azumarill but neither does anything outside Tera Blast.
Not only Pao's ban helped but also having a great match up against two of top meta picks rn: Volc and Rotom is great.
You could always use Hyper Voice Throat Spray since Illusion can give you an extra turn.
Hey so I just want to start off saying in this post that I appreciate the time and effort that the OU council have put in this generation.
They have been more transparent and responsive to the player base, while also taking swift and corrective action on the problematic pokemon that have cropped up this generation.
Thank you Finchinator, ausma, ironwater, Ruft and TPP for all of your hard work thus far.
Now, I want to talk about the elephant in the room. Great Tusk.
I'm not posting to say "oh no Great Tusk is broken ban ban ban".
But this is the third consecutive month where it has been the top pokemon. With two consecutive months of an over 50% usage stat, I think there is something wrong with the OU tier. No pokemon should ever have that high usage. It's a cry for help. (Per the monthly stat charts displayed at the start of each month, Great Tusk had 37% in December, 53% in January, and 57% in February.)
Last generation, I think there was too much caution on behalf of banning problematic pokemon (too many suspect tests and not enough conversations among the council for quick bans). This led to heavily skewed usage stats of checks and counters that otherwise shouldn't have seen that much play (Looking at you Seismitoad). Clefable was good, but it was the only realistic answer to Urshifu-S.
I digress. My point here isn't the Great Tusk is problematic. But something is wrong with the meta, and the role compression offered by Great Tusk is probably the most efficient method to answer whatever that problem may be.
I'd assume Gholdengo is in a similar boat. It has 35%+ usage for the past three months. (37% in December, 43% in January, and 41% in Febrauary).
Something needs to be done. I would love to see Garganacl banned, as it just is dummy thiccccc (yes with five "C"s) and causes all sorts of problems.
However, I don't know what the actual problem is. I don't know if Great Tusk is a symptom or a cure, but I felt the need to call attention to it.
A parting thought: when the Home/DLC drops, I think we should learn from the mistakes of Gen 8. I don't think everything should be freed again (there were like... three suspects on Cinderace in gen 8 back when Libero was broken).
Please consider keeping all of the currently banned mons locked out of OU, or at least provide a transparent council vote on what should or shouldn't be allowed back. I'd also ask that the council vote on or outright ban any of the pokemon that were banned last gen. So Lando-I, Magearna, etc. Barring balance changes from Gamefreak, broken mons don't stop being broken, and I bet tera will help most of the Ubers more than hurt.
Again, I digress. My overall point is this: Something is wrong and clearly overcentralized in OU, moreso than possibly any other generation. Something is wrong, and I appreciate whatever changes may come to improve the health of the OU metagame.
They have been more transparent and responsive to the player base, while also taking swift and corrective action on the problematic pokemon that have cropped up this generation.
Thank you Finchinator, ausma, ironwater, Ruft and TPP for all of your hard work thus far.
Now, I want to talk about the elephant in the room. Great Tusk.
I'm not posting to say "oh no Great Tusk is broken ban ban ban".
But this is the third consecutive month where it has been the top pokemon. With two consecutive months of an over 50% usage stat, I think there is something wrong with the OU tier. No pokemon should ever have that high usage. It's a cry for help. (Per the monthly stat charts displayed at the start of each month, Great Tusk had 37% in December, 53% in January, and 57% in February.)
Last generation, I think there was too much caution on behalf of banning problematic pokemon (too many suspect tests and not enough conversations among the council for quick bans). This led to heavily skewed usage stats of checks and counters that otherwise shouldn't have seen that much play (Looking at you Seismitoad). Clefable was good, but it was the only realistic answer to Urshifu-S.
I digress. My point here isn't the Great Tusk is problematic. But something is wrong with the meta, and the role compression offered by Great Tusk is probably the most efficient method to answer whatever that problem may be.
I'd assume Gholdengo is in a similar boat. It has 35%+ usage for the past three months. (37% in December, 43% in January, and 41% in Febrauary).
Something needs to be done. I would love to see Garganacl banned, as it just is dummy thiccccc (yes with five "C"s) and causes all sorts of problems.
However, I don't know what the actual problem is. I don't know if Great Tusk is a symptom or a cure, but I felt the need to call attention to it.
A parting thought: when the Home/DLC drops, I think we should learn from the mistakes of Gen 8. I don't think everything should be freed again (there were like... three suspects on Cinderace in gen 8 back when Libero was broken).
Please consider keeping all of the currently banned mons locked out of OU, or at least provide a transparent council vote on what should or shouldn't be allowed back. I'd also ask that the council vote on or outright ban any of the pokemon that were banned last gen. So Lando-I, Magearna, etc. Barring balance changes from Gamefreak, broken mons don't stop being broken, and I bet tera will help most of the Ubers more than hurt.
Again, I digress. My overall point is this: Something is wrong and clearly overcentralized in OU, moreso than possibly any other generation. Something is wrong, and I appreciate whatever changes may come to improve the health of the OU metagame.
Great Tusk is number one because he is the thing bringing all together, is one of the very few hazard removers that can kill gholdengo, is a bulky stealth rocker, a bulky attacker, a non-passive wall, can be a sweeper. tusk is not a problem, is everything around him that is a problem, try counter all the physical mons withouth it
now, there are a few mons that really help its viability
Gholdengo shuts down corviknight into B+, Corviknight can hard counter tusk
Garganacl shuts down a lot of stuff with salt cure, but is forced to tera or will die to EQ
sun also is on the rise and helps that a lot
If you wanna reduce tusk´s usage in this meta, you would need to
Either add hazard removers and hazard mons that beat gholdengo or straight up ban gholdengo
Ban Garganacl so that Corv really sky rockets
add special attackers into the mix, so that special walls are now more apreciated
make the other weathers more viable so that sun decays in usage
the thing is, we can't do a lot of this because we are not game freakazoids
Gen 9 meta is most know for 2 things, Tera and almost every Pokémon’s viable move pool being cut in half.
Great Tusk is one of like 5 Pokémon you can genuinely say didn’t lose anything (obviously) and isn’t wishing it had something extra. Of course a mon like that is the best Pokémon in the Tier
Great Tusk is one of like 5 Pokémon you can genuinely say didn’t lose anything (obviously) and isn’t wishing it had something extra. Of course a mon like that is the best Pokémon in the Tier
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