Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion

[taziathegreat]

Cinderace being a pure Fire type makes him a way better Libero using than the protean siblings. He’s able fire off a Pyro ball for free and follow that up with a stab HJK/Gunk shot or Uturn. The Don is still extremely hard to chip down but chip is chip.

 

[Komodo_Drogo]

Cinderace @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Libero
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Pyro Ball
- High Jump Kick
- Court Change
- Gunk Shot/Zen Headbutt


I think this could be the most consistent set, right now if you look at OU, most things are either weak to fire/fighting or neutral, the things that cannot be broken by those 2 can be cripled by gunk shot, Zen also means you can lure tusk, Iron hands, iron moth, ape and pex, but gunk shot gives you a better shot against Valiant, Moon, Ting Lu, Volcarona and all the dragons

Thinking zen might be potentially better over gunk, as it will pressure great tusk a little more coming in.

252 Atk Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. 252 HP / 252 Great Tusk: 118-141 (27.1 - 32.4%) -- 96.7% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and 1 layer of Spikes

252 Atk Libero Cinderace Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Great Tusk: 158-188 (36.4 - 43.3%) -- 5.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and 1 layer of Spikes

(Wasn't sure of the phys def spread but it just knocks both down another hit if max defense)

I think it depends on how comfortable a team is with dealing with skeledirge it it tera fairies.

252 Atk Libero Cinderace Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tera Fairy Skeledirge: 260-308 (63.1 - 74.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

What do y'all think?

 

[Red Raven]

Hey guys. I'm still getting used to this tier while trying not to lose my sanity to Nemo and I've been experimenting with something that has been really working out for me



Anchor @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Rough Skin
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Outrage
- Poison Jab
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw

Good ol scarf Garchomp. With the lack of fairies in the tier and the presence of fast, annoying dragons like Lunarmence and Dragapult, I found this thing to be really cheesy and pick them off for my team. Nobody really expects it and outrage is no longer as much of a death sentence as it was, until the Tapus make their return that is. Sure, that Galladevoir is an issue if you wanna outrage so with this set, I've found that the support it needs are:

- something to deal with ghost monkey like
- something that can do its hazard machine duties
- something that pressures the ever irritating metal birb

Those three are not really that hard to come by since it is common to use Dragapult, Among Us, or Bambi (Ting Lu), or other guys like them and they really appreciate the ability to get rid of those fast annoying threats like Dragapult or Lunarmence. This set is just what I use because turning outrage into a nuke is just so much fun. With how obnoxious Past Donphan is, watching a move cleave over half its hp is just so satisfying especially if the thing didn't get a free switch into Garchomp. Poison jab is just a filler move because what else am I gonna fit there? It's not like stone edge is a particularly good move right now. Of course, the fact the Garchomp doesn't really need that much to terastal probably adds more to how to make this even more of a revenge killer. Something like steel to revenge kill a damaged Galladevoir or water as just a generally good defensive typing

So, what you guys think?

Here's a few replays of scarf Chomp doing scarf Chomp things

Hide

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1757637177-jglyn6v7is4ynfp3fqamopi9v5geue4pw

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1757592319-vcxtvsqjdo2qh14rja88bgt9u16z98rpw

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1757601296-g04z5znpyscvtestd1x9jwwrrdhcd9epw

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1757613114-bohj8z78vxx7ppil0bxxt7vc3wuvlmypw

PS

Can we please get rid of Nemo already

 

[CTNC]

Here's an odd theroymon thought. If Pyro Ball and High Jump Kick are the only 2 Attacks Cinderace really needs for most Pokemon, what about Double-Edge for filler? Libreo only activates once per switch in now and Court Change is a Normal Move, so Double-Edge would let you have a STAB Attack after Court Change.

Or you could use the less gimmicky and more proven U-Turn instead if you don't want Gunk Shot or Zen Headbutt... U-Turn is probably better than Double-Edge.

 

[Magcargo]

Yeah, its hard to say how good Cinderace will be when it joins. I think it'll be a bit hard to make setup variants work due to all the roadblocks like Dondozo, Skeledirge, Pex, etc. + 4MSS meaning it will never be able to hit everything it wants & the interactions w/ Libero and Setup moves being inconvenient so it'll likely just stick to attacking sets. I could actually see it use Will-O-Wisp in this metagame to cripple switch-ins like Dondozo and Great Tusk w/ a Burn, though other mons like Skeledirge will be problematic MUs regardless.

 

[scarletnetto]

I know that the problematic aspect of chien pao, especially in a tera metagame, has been brought up before, so i'm not gonna go into too much detail, but consider this: terra dark choice band adamant chien pao (with an effective 177 base attack) has an, against neutral targets, 140 bp priority move (sucker punch) coming off of an almost 750 attack stat, to lock down offense if played correctly, especially late game, whilst having two great stab moves (icicle crash/ice spinner and crunch) for nuking fat mons, barring dondozo (who, btw, is a shaky counter due to its unreliable recovery). And that's without considering ice shard (potentially terra ice, at that) and sacred sword (which ignores opposing stat changes, such as +2 garganacl after an iron defence). I know people are convinced chi yu is far and away the most broken mon in the tier, tera or not, but chien pao is not far behind and i'd like to bring this to the council's attention, for potential action right after the conclusion of the suspect test (especially if tera doesn't end up banned)

-repost from the tera suspect thread, as i consider it relevant in this forum too

 

[MeeMoon78]

pls bring back tapu koko and skarmory

 

[awyp]

pls bring back tapu koko and skarmory

Skarmory and Tapu Koko doesn't look like it's coming back this gen, sorry.

 

[Ibaragi]

I'm tired, I'm burned out, I wasted 10+ hours of my life for nothing, I curse who said "any player around 70% GXE should be able to get reqs" (pretty sure 'twas Finch) and I hate laddering (OU, at least). FTR, the first and fourth slots are the same account at different times (1st was peak GXE), in case anyone was thinking I should retake that one.
I think I'm gonna be watching this suspect from the sidelines. Might try again around Eve with a whole new team, but doubt it'll make much of a difference.


And to not just make this a random complaint on my own performance:

Roaring Moon @ Booster Energy
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Outrage
- Acrobatics
- Tera Blast
- Dragon Dance

This thing was definitely the main character of most battles and the most convincing Poke of the team. Looks normal for the most part, but Tera-Elec REALLY makes a difference. Predicted Tera-Water (which are very common) are rendered pointless, Corvinight get OHKO at +1 with Tera Blast and Dondozo 2HKO with Booster Energy boost up (if HB Dondo with Leftovers can get shaky, but that's what SR is for). Acrobatics is run for Great Tusk and Valiant while maintaining wide, high BP neutral coverage, but Crunch can be run for Gholdengo and to not suffer against Iron Treads.
Too tired to go on all other options, but I felt Tera-Elec is the best option for Roaring Moon, specially in the current meta.

 

[Magcargo]

Great Tusk @ Leftovers
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 Spe
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Rapid Spin
- Knock Off
- Bulk Up

Hilarious Pokemon. IDK if this set is good on higher ladder matches since it doesn't beat some of Great Tusk's normal answers like Dondozo, but against other Great Tusks & Dragonite, Bulk Up is an awesome move to have since you can get stronger alongside them & win the 1v1 (unless you face a rogue Hurricane DD Dragonite). Having Rapid Spin is also quite handy since if you're greedy like me, you can try fishing for Speed boost while setting up and just go for game after winning the 1v1. The defensive investment is kinda nice to give Great Tusk more leeway while setting up. However more speed investment is probably a better idea since Great Tusks is still really slow even after bulking up. I gave enough speed investment to outspeed base 110s after rapid spin, but there might be a more relevant benchmark to try and reach.

 

[Heartache2491]

I've thought about Volt Switch, but I personally can't find much ideas for use for it myself. It does provide good pivot like you said though, so definitely give it a shot if you'd like to friend! Maybe swap Protect out for it? I'm not really sure which move to substitute for though, that's the thing. My biggest grip with Volt Switch is that because Pawmot is so fast, whatever you pivot in will most likely get hit in the process ;-; But it's still worth a try!

Pawmot is pretty cool, and it’s nice to see some experimentation with it! Any thoughts on volt switch? Pivoting with base 115 speed seems like it would be pretty good, considering that barely any good electric types exist at the moment

 

[Dhrabb]

View attachment 478925
I'm tired, I'm burned out, I wasted 10+ hours of my life for nothing, I curse who said "any player around 70% GXE should be able to get reqs" (pretty sure 'twas Finch) and I hate laddering (OU, at least). FTR, the first and fourth slots are the same account at different times (1st was peak GXE), in case anyone was thinking I should retake that one.
I think I'm gonna be watching this suspect from the sidelines. Might try again around Eve with a whole new team, but doubt it'll make much of a difference.


And to not just make this a random complaint on my own performance:

Roaring Moon @ Booster Energy
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Outrage
- Acrobatics
- Tera Blast
- Dragon Dance

This thing was definitely the main character of most battles and the most convincing Poke of the team. Looks normal for the most part, but Tera-Elec REALLY makes a difference. Predicted Tera-Water (which are very common) are rendered pointless, Corvinight get OHKO at +1 with Tera Blast and Dondozo 2HKO with Booster Energy boost up (if HB Dondo with Leftovers can get shaky, but that's what SR is for). Acrobatics is run for Great Tusk and Valiant while maintaining wide, high BP neutral coverage, but Crunch can be run for Gholdengo and to not suffer against Iron Treads.
Too tired to go on all other options, but I felt Tera-Elec is the best option for Roaring Moon, specially in the current meta.

Whoever said that wasn't wrong actually, I always hover around 70 gxe and I was able to get reqs although it was after laddering for like 5 days. Ladder can be hell but you can definitely get reqs if you're at least average and keep going at it.

 

[Athyestic]

I know that the problematic aspect of chien pao, especially in a tera metagame, has been brought up before, so i'm not gonna go into too much detail, but consider this: terra dark choice band adamant chien pao (with an effective 177 base attack) has an, against neutral targets, 140 bp priority move (sucker punch) coming off of an almost 750 attack stat, to lock down offense if played correctly, especially late game, whilst having two great stab moves (icicle crash/ice spinner and crunch) for nuking fat mons, barring dondozo (who, btw, is a shaky counter due to its unreliable recovery). And that's without considering ice shard (potentially terra ice, at that) and sacred sword (which ignores opposing stat changes, such as +2 garganacl after an iron defence). I know people are convinced chi yu is far and away the most broken mon in the tier, tera or not, but chien pao is not far behind and i'd like to bring this to the council's attention, for potential action right after the conclusion of the suspect test (especially if tera doesn't end up banned)

-repost from the tera suspect thread, as i consider it relevant in this forum too

You wanna know a sad calc?
+2 252 Atk Tera Dark Sword of Ruin Chien-Pao Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Breloom: 226-267 (86.5 - 102.2%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO

Breloom isn't exactly bulky but this is boots/sash SD.

 

[Finchinator]

I'm tired, I'm burned out, I wasted 10+ hours of my life for nothing, I curse who said "any player around 70% GXE should be able to get reqs" (pretty sure 'twas Finch) and I hate laddering (OU, at least).

If you hate laddering and don’t derive enjoyment from the game, then why ladder to get reqs to begin with? Seems like that’s the root of your issue. Regardless, I stand by what I said and I think the wide base of first time reqs getters (see: voter ID thread) speaks volumes to my claim being true.

If you can get to 35-8 with a 78 GXE, you can 100% get to 80 GXE in 50-60 games (it would have to be on a fresh alt since I know you kept going on that one). Realistically if you just keep trying new alts until you get a good start (say 8-0 or 13-2 types), then you’ll eventually get there if you keep focusing on improving. If you do the same thing over and over again and expect different results, you’re insane by definition — like that is the literal embodiment of insanity. Sometimes it’s best to take periodic breaks or save replays of losses and find what you did wrong, correct it for the next games, and come in with a fresher perspective. But with those numbers you showed, you’re clearly trending in the right direction and don’t need to shy away unless you’re just genuinely not enjoying, in which case ofc stop this is just a hobby after all.

 

[scarletnetto]

You wanna know a sad calc?
+2 252 Atk Tera Dark Sword of Ruin Chien-Pao Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Breloom: 226-267 (86.5 - 102.2%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO

Breloom isn't exactly bulky but this is boots/sash SD.

To elaborate on it, if tera dark, sucker punch is a 140 bp cause of 2x stab (70 bp + 2x stab - normally it's a 105 bp, without tera dark). The base attack stat (176 to be exact) stems from factoring in the ability sword of ruin [it's 372 attack (with 252 evs to its, in name only, 120 base attack stat + adamant nature) * 4/3= 496. It's the exact same process people followed to calculate chi yu's base spa, which comes in at 197. The only difference in the calculation process between the 2 is that in chien pao's case, u go with a +attack nature cause it can afford to thanks to priority, whereas chi yu always runs timid, even on scarf sets]. So, if tera dark, it's both 176 base attack (that means a 744 attack stat with a choice band) AND 140 priority move at the same time. To visualise what that means for opposing offensive pokemon, consider the following: 252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Dark Chien-Pao Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Baxcalibur: 340-400 (91.6 - 107.8%) -- 50% chance to OHKO (the calculation is with a 176 base attack to simulate sword of ruin). Baxcalibur, one of the bulkiest offensive mons, has a legit chance to get ohko'd from full, not even considering rocks or spikes. Imagine what that means for other offensive mons with less bulk than it. That's lockdown of the offense if played correctly, especiallly late game where most mons have been cheaped. And, to top it off, anything slower than 369 (chien pao's speed with a neutral nature) must deal with a 160 bp crunch (80 bp + 2x stab. That same move can also drop ur defence stat,too,so...) AND 120 bp ice spinner (or 127,5 bp icicle crash, which,btw, has a 30% flinch rate), not to mention dark and ice have very few, if any, monz that can resist both (azumarill on top of my head). And finally it also has another priority move, albeit weaker (ice shard, 60 bp factoring stab), which is especially relevant versus some of the best offensive mons in the tier (dragons) and sacred sword (which ignores opponent's stat stage changes, such as garganacl at +2 with an iron defence). So, if played correctly (which means,among other things, clear the field of hazards), tera dark choice band adamant chien pao both locks down offense and is a nuke against defense (or to be more precise, to anything slower than 369 speed). And fyi, it doesn't need to sweep, just to either break a hole in ur team or revenge kill some of ur offensive threats (or both). That's all it is, but it for sure ain't deoxys attack (although not far behind)

 

[Lectrys]

Hey guys. I'm still getting used to this tier while trying not to lose my sanity to Nemo and I've been experimenting with something that has been really working out for me



Anchor @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Rough Skin
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Outrage
- Poison Jab
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw

Good ol scarf Garchomp. With the lack of fairies in the tier and the presence of fast, annoying dragons like Lunarmence and Dragapult, I found this thing to be really cheesy and pick them off for my team. Nobody really expects it and outrage is no longer as much of a death sentence as it was, until the Tapus make their return that is. Sure, that Galladevoir is an issue if you wanna outrage so with this set, I've found that the support it needs are:

- something to deal with ghost monkey like
- something that can do its hazard machine duties
- something that pressures the ever irritating metal birb

Those three are not really that hard to come by since it is common to use Dragapult, Among Us, or Bambi (Ting Lu), or other guys like them and they really appreciate the ability to get rid of those fast annoying threats like Dragapult or Lunarmence. This set is just what I use because turning outrage into a nuke is just so much fun. With how obnoxious Past Donphan is, watching a move cleave over half its hp is just so satisfying especially if the thing didn't get a free switch into Garchomp. Poison jab is just a filler move because what else am I gonna fit there? It's not like stone edge is a particularly good move right now. Of course, the fact the Garchomp doesn't really need that much to terastal probably adds more to how to make this even more of a revenge killer. Something like steel to revenge kill a damaged Galladevoir or water as just a generally good defensive typing

So, what you guys think?

Here's a few replays of scarf Chomp doing scarf Chomp things

Hide

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1757637177-jglyn6v7is4ynfp3fqamopi9v5geue4pw

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1757592319-vcxtvsqjdo2qh14rja88bgt9u16z98rpw

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1757601296-g04z5znpyscvtestd1x9jwwrrdhcd9epw

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1757613114-bohj8z78vxx7ppil0bxxt7vc3wuvlmypw

PS

Can we please get rid of Nemo already

Fire Fang or Fire Blast looks like a better filler move for Garchomp right now to bean Air Balloon Gholdengo harder and hit Corviknight worth something, especially since Iron Valiant really doesn't want to take Earthquake. (Once Pokemon HOME compatibility is released, you might want Poison Jab back to OHKO Enamorus after Stealth Rock, though.)

 

[T-Bolt]

So is cinderace getting added after the suspect test or whenever showdown updates?

 

[TrainerGeist]

So is cinderace getting added after the suspect test or whenever showdown updates?

Whenever Showdown Updates.

From the OU Chat Room:

 

[Heartache2491]

So I made another team focused around Pawmot (God, this Pokemon is so fun to use!!!)

It's a purely offensive Pawmot that abuses game mechanics to spam Double Shock without any drawbacks (a Pawmot that doesn't have Revival Blessing!? That's ridiculous!) Having it Tera to Electric makes it not lose its electric typing, which it normally would with Double Shock. Throw a Choice band on top of that, and so many mons just die to you.

I made the rest of the team based around handling threats Pawmot can't, specifically ground types, and even having Sticky Web helps too with some matchups, as Pawmot does get outsped by some threats.

I feel like the first game was a success. I'll get more later since I don't feel good right now. Made a mistake with the Zard though, should have took Dragonite out first, but it's ok, we won!

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1758112133

 

[Contrary Servine]

Just like to share a fun little Roaring Moon set I've been messing around with lately.

Roaring Moon @ Covert Cloak
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 212 Atk / 44 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Jaw Lock
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance
- Roost

I came up with this after deciding I wanted a way to bait Garganacl hard, and it's actually not too bad. With Covert Cloak, Salt Cure is literally useless, and Tera Ghost makes you immune to Body Press, letting you trap it with Jaw Lock and then DD up while your opponent clicks buttons helplessly. Even with ID sets you can usually stall them out of Recover PP if you don't get a crit first. It's essentially a free win if your opponent has Garganacl, and Tera Ghost has the advantage of making you immune to common priority like ESpeed and Mach Punch, with only Kingambit's Sucker Punch reliably stopping the sweep. Ghost also has the neat advantage of meaning you can't be trapped, so you can actually switch after you Jaw Lock if you need to. Speed evs are for Dragonite.
I legitimately think Covert Cloak has a small niche on these kinds of trapping set up sweepers, since this set also works on Torkoal and Amoongus, preventing the 30% burn/poison. Will maybe add replays if I remember.

 

[Soiramio3000]

I wonder how galarian sloking is going to affect the meta with its signature move eerie spell(80 base psychic move that removes 3 pp from its target's last used move.).

 

[Eeveeto]

I wonder how galarian sloking is going to affect the meta with its signature move eerie spell(80 base psychic move that removes 3 pp from its target's last used move.).

0, low PP and low power. Galarian Slowking himself will be decent with Chilly Reception + Future Sight. Sets like AV, CM and NP + Trick worked decently last Generation, though I personally always found the Mon very overrated and prefered the Johto variant.

 

[Komodo_Drogo]

Just ran into a bulk up roost quaquaval, has anyone else been using this and how solid is it right now? My team couldn't touch it so was wondering if it was bad matchup or a legitimate threat.

 

[Fusion Flare]

it does alright when it terastallizes, but you have to get a few free turns to get snowballing, and also hope you either dont get overloaded by offense, statused, or thud into a surprise toxapex.

Just ran into a bulk up roost quaquaval, has anyone else been using this and how solid is it right now? My team couldn't touch it so was wondering if it was bad matchup or a legitimate threat.

 

[MasterPlayer]

So I may or may not have found something that can apparently live a super effective STAB hit from Great Tusk and maybe barely live a super effective non-specs STAB Overheat from Chi-Yu with the right conditions met, that also happens to have no safe switch-ins other than Blissey and Dondozo, but the latter depends of it not packing a certain move