Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4 [Volcarona Banned]

[Ctann]

samurott makes a great lead.

I really like this mostly lead set, what are everyone’s thoughts?


Samurott-Hisui @ Assault Vest
Ability: Sharpness
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 168 HP / 88 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Ceaseless Edge
- Razor Shell
- Sacred Sword
- Aqua Jet

the most common problematic matchups:

• Glimmora can’t KO and can be razor shelled back
• Deoxys can’t KO with superpower
• Darkrai can only KO 37% of the time if it’s got both focus blast and life orb, otherwise it cant
• specs Kyurem only has a similar 37% chance to KO with freeze dry
• landorus can’t KO with any move
• Tusk needs close combat
• Ribombee can’t KO
• Dragapult can’t KO, even choice band, unless it uses Tera

It doesn’t use focus sash so it can also be useful if it’s not the lead
thoughts ?

 

[Delibird Heart]

well, some slight corrections:

• it does the exact same amount as hustleband flapple using outrage outside of gravity
• if we're counting field conditions like gravity despite needing another mon to set them up, we should also factor in grassy terrain to boost flapple's number even more. let's also factor in tera because well duh
• even after factoring in all that, it still gets outdamaged. guess fucking who
  • 252+ Atk Choice Band Hustle Tera Grass Flapple Grav Apple (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tera Fighting Dondozo in Grassy Terrain: 486-574 (96.4 - 113.8%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
  • 252+ Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Tera Fire Gouging Fire Raging Fury vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tera Fighting Dondozo in Sun: 504-594 (100 - 117.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
• neither of these have jack shit on the actual strongest unboosted physical hit in the tier, which also happens to be the strongest unboosted hit of any kind in any tier
  • 252+ Atk Choice Band Galvanize Tera Electric Golem-Alola Explosion vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tera Fighting Dondozo in Electric Terrain: 862-1016 (171 - 201.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
• that is, "any tier" unless we want to count adapt tera ghost band basculegion last respects with 7 or more allies fainted. yes, that's right, 7 or more. revival blessing doesn't make the last respects counter go down (they capped the counter at one hundredfor some reason), and 2 mons learn it, so if you want to waste half your teamspace on gimmicky bullshit it's technically entirely possible to end up with a calc that looks a little something like this:
  • 252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Tera Ghost Basculegion Last Respects (400 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tera Fighting Dondozo: 949-1118 (188.2 - 221.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Damn yeah my bad I didn't think of the fact they added gouging fire now lol. But it used to really be the strongest (outside of self ko moves, which i also forgot to mention lol). Well done though this really puts things into perspective. Is there any mon who could live that golem hit without the help of sturdy and without resisting it/being immune to it ??

252+ Atk Choice Band Galvanize Tera Electric Golem-Alola Explosion vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Regirock: 438-516 (120.3 - 141.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Damn... Doesn't look like it lol.

Alright here's something else to not completely derail the OU metagame thread. What do you guys think about right now ? Good ? Bad ? What kind of teams do you use it on ?

 

[Heatranator]

Damn yeah my bad I didn't think of the fact they added gouging fire now lol. But it used to really be the strongest (outside of self ko moves, which i also forgot to mention lol). Well done though this really puts things into perspective. Is there any mon who could live that golem hit without the help of sturdy and without resisting it/being immune to it ??

252+ Atk Choice Band Galvanize Tera Electric Golem-Alola Explosion vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Regirock: 438-516 (120.3 - 141.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Damn... Doesn't look like it lol.

Alright here's something else to not completely derail the OU metagame thread. What do you guys think about right now ? Good ? Bad ? What kind of teams do you use it on ?

Ting lu is pretty good. I've been really liking more offensive versions. 252+ attack reaches a 350 stat, which can really hurt a lot of opponents expecting it to not hit that hard. Combine that with payback, which will almost always be last, thus making it a 100 bp move, and it can hit really hard. It still has lots of bulk even with just max hp investment, and can get up stealth rocks while making sure tusk doesn't want to remove them. E-quake 3hit kos tusk, so it will not like taking that.

252+ Atk Choice Band Galvanize Tera Electric Golem-Alola Explosion vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 468-552 (118.7 - 140.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Galvanize Golem-Alola Explosion vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 351-414 (89 - 105%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
Avalugg is probably the physically bulkiest mon in the game, and it can live a non tera one. Though good luck on the other one lol.
252+ Atk Choice Band Galvanize Golem-Alola Explosion vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Furfrou: 373-441 (105.3 - 124.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Furfrou is the bulkiest because it has fur coat, but idk why this dog is the bulkiest. It's not in the game though.
252+ Atk Choice Band Galvanize Golem-Alola Explosion vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Eternatus-Eternamax: 336-396 (51.6 - 60.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Still though, it is pathetic in terms of eternatus (I changed its typing to steel).

 

[Delibird Heart]

Ting lu is pretty good. I've been really liking more offensive versions. 252+ attack reaches a 350 stat, which can really hurt a lot of opponents expecting it to not hit that hard. Combine that with payback, which will almost always be last, thus making it a 100 bp move, and it can hit really hard. It still has lots of bulk even with just max hp investment, and can get up stealth rocks while making sure tusk doesn't want to remove them. E-quake 3hit kos tusk, so it will not like taking that.

I like the idea of offensive ting lu. I remember getting surprised by it a few times on the ladder back in predlc meta and thinking there may actually be work to be done right there. Something like an AV set could potentially be an extreme annoyance when coupled with a wishpasser like mola.

@ Assault Vest
Ability: Vessel of Ruin
Tera Type: Steel / Poison / Water
EVs: 252 HP / 156 Atk / 100 SpD
Careful Nature
- Earthquake
- Payback
- Stone Edge
- Heavy Slam

This is a more defensive spread that allows you to never be 2HKoed by specs kyurem's ice beam. Although you lose out on some offensive power, you still always 2hko it back:

252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 100+ SpD Assault Vest Vessel of Ruin Ting-Lu: 216-254 (42 - 49.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
152 Atk Ting-Lu Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kyurem: 196-232 (50.1 - 59.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Sounds interesting honestly. At a first glance, not much trades easily into this as Ting-Lu has great natural physical bulk, and you hit decently hard. Not sure what tera type would be the best for this, but steel allows you to work better vs both primarina and kyurem and gives you a really solid defensive typing over all, althought it doesn't get rid of your fighting weakness. Poison and Water are also good candidates. I'll try to build something with this in the near future and I'll let you know how it goes.

 

[tommytt22]

samurott makes a great lead.

I really like this mostly lead set, what are everyone’s thoughts?


Samurott-Hisui @ Assault Vest
Ability: Sharpness
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 168 HP / 88 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Ceaseless Edge
- Razor Shell
- Sacred Sword
- Aqua Jet

the most common problematic matchups:

• Glimmora can’t KO and can be razor shelled back
• Deoxys can’t KO with superpower
• Darkrai can only KO 37% of the time if it’s got both focus blast and life orb, otherwise it cant
• specs Kyurem only has a similar 37% chance to KO with freeze dry
• landorus can’t KO with any move
• Tusk needs close combat
• Ribombee can’t KO
• Dragapult can’t KO, even choice band, unless it uses Tera

It doesn’t use focus sash so it can also be useful if it’s not the lead
thoughts ?

Really like it, you're covering a lot of the metagames best leads. I've always preferred tera dark sucker punch over tera water aqua jet but they both have their strengths. Aqua jet is better against opposing sash leads incase they set screens etc. Sucker punch better late game if you save samurott. Nice work

 

[EpicGuy321]

confuse ray could actually be kinda gas on cryogonal. when i was last playing i was experimenting on what to run as its fourth move, since the ground tera blast set i was using in dlc1 is no longer worth running over kyurem. list of things i've tried:

• water tera blast. combined with freeze-dry, it's unresisted coverage, but cryogonal's damage output is honestly kind of lackluster. it's very much not iron bundle and i feel that trying to make it into a breaker/cleaner wasn't really the direction to go
• haze. a tried-and-true randbats option, and compressing haze and rapid spin into a single slot was interesting, but i just never found myself clicking it
• bind. yes, really. no, seriously, hear me out. hitting someone with a bind on switch can prevent them from doubling while you switch into your answer to what they now have out. it doesn't work at my skill level because people don't double, but the better your opponent is at positioning, the more effective it is to take away their ability to switch at any given time
• a secret tech that could possibly work quite well if played right but i don't have the raw skill to pilot that kind of heat properly. i'm willing to tell someone with actual building and laddering skills or some tour player in need of wacky ideas and see if they can find out what the optimal team comp for it is and whether it's any good, but i don't want to shout it out in public just yet just in case it actually works

maybe i'll try confuse ray on it whenever the next suspect happens

I was also considering Poison Jab. That way, you can poison things. If Clodsire can do it, so can Cryogonal.

 

[Ctann]

[offensive] Garchomp might be more viable than usual right now

• I'm seeing lots of special attacking landorus
• You’re not super reliant on loaded dice, thus opening up item slots, or you can use leftovers
• there’s things like alomolola you can +2 on
• You can get creative with items or move sets, soft sand can get a 3hko on a trimmed down dozo, Tera ground is capable of deleting most of the meta, electric Tera blast gives you coverage against the popular checks and bypasses glare from serp, stun spore from ribombee, fire type can reverse sweep Kyurem, valiant, enamorous and co, tera ghost with some high PP moves (or shadow claw) actually beats standard iron defense skarm and gives you a slightly improved MU against zamazenta, whilst giving you an easy way to bypass almost all dragonite. If you want to be super creative you can even use Tera water with water STAB to give you an easy out vs wake and become the ultimate anti-weather matchup, you also get to hit tusk harder and resist the ice spinner. Tera steel or poison also has a few perks such as STAB iron head/poison jab, and the toxic + fairy + grassy glide resist, tho doesn’t really stand out from the rest of the options when it comes to being anti meta.
• Immune to thunderclap
• Not outclassed by roaring moon due to the meta liking Garchomp defensive profile slightly more than moons profile, and moon is excellent but only a reliable asset on certain team structures
• Not outclassed by dragonite due to non-competing roles. Dragonite is anti offense, especially frailer offense and has a backup e speed. Garchomp is a classic breaker that forces teams to shuffle through their ground/dragon immunities or to sack something.
• Only mildly outclassed by great tusk on an offensive basis, but has enough differentiation and can be significantly more creative.
• You have meta partners like alomolola that love wishpassing to an offensive threat like Garchomp. Slap on some HDB on your chomper boy for maximum fun, and enjoy the pressure you can exert!

So we have a Pokémon that has lots of creative Tera options.. I counted 7 that can be meta, although I can see other unorthodox ideas working too, like Tera fairy, grass, ice and even dragon. This might be the only pokemon capable of having 7+ viable Tera types!

 

[EpicGuy321]

[offensive] Garchomp might be more viable than usual right now

• I'm seeing lots of special attacking landorus
• You’re not super reliant on loaded dice, thus opening up item slots, or you can use leftovers
• there’s things like alomolola you can +2 on
• You can get creative with items or move sets, soft sand can get a 3hko on a trimmed down dozo, Tera ground is capable of deleting most of the meta, electric Tera blast gives you coverage against the popular checks and bypasses glare from serp, fire type can reverse sweep Kyurem, valiant, enamorous and co, tera ghost with some high PP moves actually beats standard iron defense skarm and gives you a slightly improved MU against zamazenta, whilst giving you an easy way to bypass almost all dragonite. If you want to be super creative you can even use Tera water with water STAB to give you an easy out vs wake and become the ultimate anti-weather matchup, you also get to hit tusk harder and resist the ice spinner. Tera steel or poison also has a few perks such as STAB iron head/poison jab, and the toxic + fairy resist, tho doesn’t really stand out from the rest of the options when it comes to being anti meta.
• Immune to thunderclap
• Not outclassed by roaring moon due to the meta liking Garchomp defensive profile slightly more than moons profile, and moon is excellent but only a reliable asset on certain team structures
• Not outclassed by dragonite due to non-competing roles. Dragonite is anti offense, especially frailer offense and has a backup e speed. Garchomp is a classic breaker that forces teams to shuffle through their ground/dragon immunities or to sack something.
• Only mildly outclassed by great tusk on an offensive basis, but has enough differentiation and can be significantly more creative.

So we have a Pokémon that has lots of creative Tera options.. I counted 7 that can be meta, although I can see other unorthodox ideas working too, like Tera fairy, grass, ice and even dragon. This might be the only pokemon capable of having 7+ viable Tera types!

Volcarona:

samurott makes a great lead.

I really like this mostly lead set, what are everyone’s thoughts?


Samurott-Hisui @ Assault Vest
Ability: Sharpness
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 168 HP / 88 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Ceaseless Edge
- Razor Shell
- Sacred Sword
- Aqua Jet

the most common problematic matchups:

• Glimmora can’t KO and can be razor shelled back
• Deoxys can’t KO with superpower
• Darkrai can only KO 37% of the time if it’s got both focus blast and life orb, otherwise it cant
• specs Kyurem only has a similar 37% chance to KO with freeze dry
• landorus can’t KO with any move
• Tusk needs close combat
• Ribombee can’t KO
• Dragapult can’t KO, even choice band, unless it uses Tera

It doesn’t use focus sash so it can also be useful if it’s not the lead
thoughts ?

I really like scarf Hamurott. Aqua Cutter, Ceaseless, Knock, Flip Turn. Hits a nice 442 speed, sneakily OHKOing Dragapult and threatening even scarf Gholdengo. Being faster than Tusk also allows you to get some surprise KOs on people who think they can just Headlong you and kill!

 

[Ctann]

Volcarona:

I really like scarf Hamurott. Aqua Cutter, Ceaseless, Knock, Flip Turn. Hits a nice 442 speed, sneakily OHKOing Dragapult and threatening even scarf Gholdengo. Being faster than Tusk also allows you to get some surprise KOs on people who think they can just Headlong you and kill!

Volcarona Tera types:

• Ground to bypass heatran, ceruledge and dirge
• Water to bypass the above, but poorer against gouging fire and long neck in exchange for generally good defensive type
• Dragon to break the dragons
• Fairy to break the dragons and resist sucker punch. But misses the critical gouging fire matchup
• Grass to break past the nacl, most waters - especially the fairies - and remain healthy generally
• Fringe options like steel, bug, fire, etc..

Did I miss any? There’s 5 types that are quite viable. Garchomp might not be as meta but definitely has more creative Tera types.

Garchomp Tera types:

• The 7 types mentioned above, plus;
• Tera fairy to better bypass most dragapult and get a sucker punch resistance vs gambit
• Tera grass to resist waterpon and turn the tables, also gives a neat water resist against rain
• Tera dragon to power up stab and resist Ivy cudgel
• Tera ice to OHKO Gliscor and get cool coverage with EQ. Not cool vs balloon steels tho since they all OHKO back with make it rain/iron head/ magma storm.

viable items on Volcarona:

• heavy duty boots

viable items on Garchomp:

• Heavy duty boots
• Leftovers
• Loaded dice
• Rocky helmet
• Soft sand
• Yache berry
• Roseli berry
• Grassy seed
• Lum berry

 

[FruitLoopBoop]

Hey all,
Does manaphy have a place in the meta rn? Or is prim just better if you want a bulky water wincon?
im just thinking because take heart was a great addition to the movepool and means it doesnt fear toxic like prim does so it could use a different ters type to poison/steel
but that dragon immunity and dark/fighting resist on prim are massive too
Prim has recovery in draining kiss tho so it seems better to me, whilst mana would depend on rest + hydration in rain

Primarina is probably better at that role of setup sweeping with cm, but does manaphy’s more offensive sets do anything? is tail glow three attacks any good, or is the speed just not enough, even in rain?

 

[Time Waster]

The fundamental problem with hazards is that Game Freak removed defog from some of the best mons in the tier. I would fully support a ban if or the tapus (assuming they were present) kept defog. But they don't. Game Freak gutted removal off of good mons and has been acting as a scapegoat for people to vent their frustrations about hazards. Defog is utter garbage and Mr. 1000 is not the reason for it being unviable. Is a healthy presence for the tier? I think so, I'm not going to pass judgement but bholgengo is a great mon thats splashable and sees high usage for a reason, even on teams that don't require keeping hazards up at all cost.

I'm just glad we got HDB before this gen

I'm sure this has been said before at some point but I haven't seen it mentioned recently. The reason defog's distribution is so limited now is because there's no defog TM in the game. You can only get it by level up and breeding which is why Corv still has it. This wasn't done on purpose like the toxic and scald distribution nerf. GF does balance this game for singles sometimes, but that's not the case here. They probably didn't see the reason to put it in the game without the Tapus since hazards don't really exist in VGC. I think a lot of the mons that lost defog will get it back in gen 10.

 

[Soiramio3000]

Good thing that pokemon xa will be released in 2025 and not sooner.

There is evidence to suggest that it will have crossplay.

In SV files people found the signature move of that pokemon that was resurected by that immortal guy from kalos.

I wonder how would pangoro perform on the current meta.
Maybe if the create a brand new dark type punching move it could perform as a niche wallbreaker similar to golurk.
Tera could help too.

 

[BolTingBlazie]

Good thing that pokemon xa will be released in 2025 and not sooner.

There is evidence to suggest that it will have crossplay.

In SV files people found the signature move of that pokemon that was resurected by that immortal guy from kalos.

I wonder how would pangoro perform on the current meta.
Maybe if the create a brand new dark type punching move it could perform as a niche wallbreaker similar to golurk.
Tera could help too.

I hate to tell you but light of ruin has been in every game's files since XY, and SV is done pretty much. ZA content will probably be usable in the next gen.

That being said I hope legends ZA lets us get AZ's Floette and evolve it, because I want to know what kind of competitive monster an AZ's Florges would be and how good eviolite AZ's Floette would be.

 

[Soiramio3000]

I hate to tell you but light of ruin has been in every game's files since XY, and SV is done pretty much. ZA content will probably be usable in the next gen.

That being said I hope legends ZA lets us get AZ's Floette and evolve it, because I want to know what kind of competitive monster an AZ's Florges would be and how good eviolite AZ's Floette would be.

in every game's files?
okay then.

 

[Kallum]

Good thing that pokemon xa will be released in 2025 and not sooner.

There is evidence to suggest that it will have crossplay.

In SV files people found the signature move of that pokemon that was resurected by that immortal guy from kalos.

I wonder how would pangoro perform on the current meta.
Maybe if the create a brand new dark type punching move it could perform as a niche wallbreaker similar to golurk.
Tera could help too.

I'm just out here hoping it will have multiplayer and more traditional battle system so that we can have a new OU tier but with Megas (I know I'm on that good copium)

 

[MaahirMomtaz12]

Good thing that pokemon xa will be released in 2025 and not sooner.

There is evidence to suggest that it will have crossplay.

In SV files people found the signature move of that pokemon that was resurected by that immortal guy from kalos.

I wonder how would pangoro perform on the current meta.
Maybe if the create a brand new dark type punching move it could perform as a niche wallbreaker similar to golurk.
Tera could help too.

What's this signature move

 

[MaahirMomtaz12]

I hate to tell you but light of ruin has been in every game's files since XY, and SV is done pretty much. ZA content will probably be usable in the next gen.

That being said I hope legends ZA lets us get AZ's Floette and evolve it, because I want to know what kind of competitive monster an AZ's Florges would be and how good eviolite AZ's Floette would be.

Eternal Flower Floette can't evolve. It has stats similar to Florges, with more Special Attack and Speed but at the cost of less Special Defense

 

[Powerhero]

What's this signature move

Light of Ruin. Fairy, 140 BP, 8 PP, 90% acc. Signature Move of Eternal Flower Floette which never got released.

 

[MaahirMomtaz12]

Light of Ruin. Fairy, 140 BP, 8 PP, 90% acc. Signature Move of Eternal Flower Floette which never got released.

Oh that move is 10 years old now lol

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

Light of Ruin. Fairy, 140 BP, 8 PP, 90% acc. Signature Move of Eternal Flower Floette which never got released.

i have to wonder how floette-eternal would fare if she were dropped into the current meta. she has excellent breaking power—140 power coming off of 125 spa is marginally stronger than a walking wake draco meteor (outside of sun), and light of ruin is more spammable than most moves of an equivalent power level. maybe there should be a roomtour with her legalized, just for fun

 

[FuecocoBoi]

i have to wonder how floette-eternal would fare if she were dropped into the current meta. she has excellent breaking power—140 power coming off of 125 spa is marginally stronger than a walking wake draco meteor (outside of sun), and light of ruin is more spammable than most moves of an equivalent power level. maybe there should be a roomtour with her legalized, just for fun

Light of Ruin has 50% recoil, Floette has effectively no ability, (flower veil only being useful in doubles and even still very bad), dies to any physical steel or poison move or powerful neutral. Basically baby Flutter.

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

Floette has effectively no ability, (flower veil only being useful in doubles and even still very bad)

flower veil actually does affect the user if it's grass-type, so you could easily just tera grass to turn your floette into a status absorber and make her immune to webs. grass usually doesn't have very good tera synergy with fairy but in this case it might be a solid option

or you could just go for ground tera blast for that crazy fairy/ground coverage that all the cool fairy-types are using these days

 

[Finchinator]

Imma be real: leading SV OU has been a trip lately. No matter what is acted on or purposefully left untouched, the majority of people are going to find themselves upset with something relevant to the metagame. You could ask a dozen top players (including people on the council) what the problem with the metagame is and likely come up with close to a dozen unique answers ranging from nothing at all to wanting a lot of bans. There’s the people in the middle, myself included, who just want one or two things to go now, too.

Something I’ve accepted since I took over last generation is you can’t please everyone and, if you try to do that, you’re just going to end up disappointed. So while I listen to everything people say, I do it mostly to inform myself and potentially even share with the council or fuel justifications, not necessarily to dictate every last decision as it’s impossible to make decisions that jive with every informed perspective - they have impossible overlap far more often than not when you take a decent sample after all.

Tera is a great example of this as plenty of good players still want it acted on, but the majority clearly doesn’t and it feels like the writing is on the wall when it comes to a full ban given what we have seen. Some people accept this premise and focus on the next steps to make the current situation more competitive/balanced while certain others act out of protest and spite, voting to not ban anything ever again until course changes, spamming the survey with extreme scores for every option, and haha reacting posts before they can even read them fully. It’s an interesting range and just taking it all in from afar is kinda reflective of actual society in a lot of ways. I’ve always found that interesting about how people handle stuff.

Similar to Tera as a whole, a lot of Pokemon prompt a scattered range of responses from players, too. A lot of guys want us to overhaul stuff and quickban various Pokemon, which is really extreme and wouldn’t even be possible as nothing has council support for a quickban. Others want us to leave the tier as is and view it ideal. The reality will always find itself in the middle, which often leads to suspect tests.

Finding 60% on anything right now is really a challenge and you can make of that what you will. Personally I think it’s just due to variable beliefs and understandings of what is broken in a tier with so many options, especially with the cap for possibilities blown up with the Tera dynamic kept in mind.

Stuff like Wellspring is arguably textbook broken due to lack of good switchins, but a lot of people mention metagame context with hazards and speed tiers. Stuff like Volcarona can put an immense strain on preservation in the battle and even having sufficient measures for it in the builder, but a lot of people mention the handful of stops and metagame evolutions that can stifle it or the fact that it can only do so much within any single set. You can extend this give-and-take logic to other Pokemon like Kyurem or Dragapult as well, which people have called for action on while others have vehemently opposed action on.

I think that like just about every other generation, more of a consensus will come with more time and development, especially as the tier grows closer to a settled state. With Tera and power creep on both ends, it definitely takes longer to reach that point this generation, evidenced by prior states like DLC1. However, we will get there. Just hoping people keep an open mind in the meantime rather than being defeatist or counterproductive. Don’t think the tier is terribly far from where it needs to be and I am having fun despite some limitations.

 

[Moutemoute]

Finding 60% on anything right now is really a challenge and you can make of that what you will. Personally I think it’s just due to variable beliefs and understandings of what is broken in a tier with so many options, especially with the cap for possibilities blown up with the Tera dynamic kept in mind.

Dumb question from a non-OU player but I feel like the OU community has grown massively since generation 9 compared to SS (maybe it's just a feeling and I'm wrong af) and this is why it's also really tough to reach a supermajority threshold. With that in mind, would this be doable / questionnable to act on the voting threshold (>50, >51, idk etc...). We're talking here more about a policy thing but that may open some changes to the tier if the threshold to ban something was lowered. It wouldn't be perfect (it will never be), but this could open some ban(/unban) more easily ? Just a dumb question, don't hate please.

 

[Finchinator]

Dumb question from a non-OU player but I feel like the OU community has grown massively since generation 9 compared to SS (maybe it's just a feeling and I'm wrong af) and this is why it's also really tough to reach a supermajority threshold. With that in mind, would this be doable / questionnable to act on the voting threshold (>50, >51, idk etc...). We're talking here more about a policy thing but that may open some changes to the tier if the threshold to ban something was lowered. It wouldn't be perfect (it will never be), but this could open some ban(/unban) more easily ? Just a dumb question, don't hate please.

Changing the voting threshold mid-generation is a tough sell, especially after some 55-58% suspects — it comes off as more of a salty overreaction than much else.

I have already pitched a potential change to 55% for next generation, which will be a discussion that happens closer to then and I may not even be involved with tiering as much come then (TBD). But I see it remaining 60% for now and the logic behind a supermajority like this checks out, it’s really just a matter of picking the arbitrary threshold from there that best fits our needs.