Fully accurate triple axle seems nasty but unfortunately I don’t know how you would actually set up with it and you’ll never have stab on triple axel unless you tera so the setup turn is kinda wasted when you could just attack and instantly get stab
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4 [Volcarona Banned]
- Thread starter TPP
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Triple Axel is good for coverage and deals enough damage to take out the mons that could eat a boosted Knock or Flower Trick. The +1 boost makes up for the lack of STAB to OHKO defensive Gliscor and Dragonite. You also OHKO Raging Bolt after rocks chip. At +0 you still OHKO Lando.
Granted Hone Claws Meow does suffer 4MSS since it wants to fit Flower Trick, Knock, Tera Fire Blast, Triple Axel, and even Low Kick into 3 attacking slots. So there’s always something that’s gonna check you. But you CAN pick and chose your checks and tailor the rest of the team to whatever Meow can’t break past.
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658Greninja’s Showcase Of Heat Sets
I’m back with another post, bringing the heat into the OU forums once more. People tend to forget that running heat isn’t just slapping a lower tier mon and calling it a day, its also tweaking the sets/evs of top Pokemon for some creative builds. These are mostly sets I found cool and/or think are legit.
Darkrai (Darkrai) @ Leftovers
Ability: Bad Dreams
Tera Type: Poison/Ghost
EVs: 196 HP / 104 Def / 208 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind/Nasty Plot
- Dark Pulse
- Sludge Bomb
- Will-O-Wisp/Ice Beam/Taunt
Nasty Darkrai spread. 70/90/90 bulk isn’t terrible and if invested, can make it surprisingly bulky. I’ve eaten Tera Grass Glides from Rilla, LO boosted Superpowers from Deo-S, Cudgels from Wogre, and tanked 1-2 U-Turns. Calm Mind makes it less vulnerable to being rkilled by mons like Prima, Rbolt, and opposing Darkrai. Wisp is absolutely vile on this mon since most of your natural checks hate getting burnt. If you wanna 6-0 a whole Stall team, Tera Ghost + Taunt shuts them down hard. The way most teams deal with Darkrai is by pivoting around it, and this set makes doing so more difficult.
Ability: Bad Dreams
Tera Type: Poison/Ghost
EVs: 196 HP / 104 Def / 208 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind/Nasty Plot
- Dark Pulse
- Sludge Bomb
- Will-O-Wisp/Ice Beam/Taunt
Nasty Darkrai spread. 70/90/90 bulk isn’t terrible and if invested, can make it surprisingly bulky. I’ve eaten Tera Grass Glides from Rilla, LO boosted Superpowers from Deo-S, Cudgels from Wogre, and tanked 1-2 U-Turns. Calm Mind makes it less vulnerable to being rkilled by mons like Prima, Rbolt, and opposing Darkrai. Wisp is absolutely vile on this mon since most of your natural checks hate getting burnt. If you wanna 6-0 a whole Stall team, Tera Ghost + Taunt shuts them down hard. The way most teams deal with Darkrai is by pivoting around it, and this set makes doing so more difficult.
Dragonite (Dragonite) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Multiscale
Tera Type: Fairy/Flying
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant/Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Tera Blast
- Earthquake
- Encore
Imo, the playerbase should be more willing to experiment with Dnite outside of the usual Tera Normal E-Speed. Multiscale + wide movepool gives it plenty of options to work with, and some players have realized this. I didn’t come up with this set, but I think it’s hype asf. It deals with the usual Dnite counterplay such as Ironpress Zama, Tusk, Dozo, and the Steel Birds by nuking the former two and Encoring the latter half. Tera Fairy resists Sucker and is generally good neutral coverage vs anything not named Corv/Skarm/Molt. Tera Flying deals more to physically bulky targets like Gliscor and Mola. I’d also recommend trying Jolly since you outspeed Pult/Zama while being able to OHKO them with Tera Flying Blast.
+1 252 Atk Tera Flying Dragonite Tera Blast (80 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragapult: 340-400 (107.2 - 126.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252 Atk Tera Flying Dragonite Tera Blast (80 BP) vs. +1 252 HP / 88 Def Zamazenta: 292-348 (75.2 - 89.6%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes
Lum is an underrated option when paired with hazard control from Cinder/Treads/Hatt for punishing Hex Pult, Gliscor, Glowking, Wisp Cinder, and other status spreaders
Ability: Multiscale
Tera Type: Fairy/Flying
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant/Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Tera Blast
- Earthquake
- Encore
Imo, the playerbase should be more willing to experiment with Dnite outside of the usual Tera Normal E-Speed. Multiscale + wide movepool gives it plenty of options to work with, and some players have realized this. I didn’t come up with this set, but I think it’s hype asf. It deals with the usual Dnite counterplay such as Ironpress Zama, Tusk, Dozo, and the Steel Birds by nuking the former two and Encoring the latter half. Tera Fairy resists Sucker and is generally good neutral coverage vs anything not named Corv/Skarm/Molt. Tera Flying deals more to physically bulky targets like Gliscor and Mola. I’d also recommend trying Jolly since you outspeed Pult/Zama while being able to OHKO them with Tera Flying Blast.
+1 252 Atk Tera Flying Dragonite Tera Blast (80 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragapult: 340-400 (107.2 - 126.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252 Atk Tera Flying Dragonite Tera Blast (80 BP) vs. +1 252 HP / 88 Def Zamazenta: 292-348 (75.2 - 89.6%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes
Lum is an underrated option when paired with hazard control from Cinder/Treads/Hatt for punishing Hex Pult, Gliscor, Glowking, Wisp Cinder, and other status spreaders
Dondozo (Dondozo) @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Crunch
- Curse
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
Crunch and Tera Dark lets you hit both Ghold and Wogre neutrally. It also 1v1s Hex Pult.
Ability: Unaware
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Crunch
- Curse
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
Crunch and Tera Dark lets you hit both Ghold and Wogre neutrally. It also 1v1s Hex Pult.
Enamorus (Enamorus) @ Leftovers
Ability: Contrary
Tera Type: Ground/Steel
EVs: 64 Atk / 252 SpA / 192 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Moonblast
- Earth Power
- Superpower
- Taunt
I took months for players to realize Enamorus is more than just a Tera Stellar machine. Calm Mind Enam is an underrated breaker that can legit shut down some Fat builds. This set takes it a step further by punishing Blissey with Superpower, meaning most Stalls have a tough time fighting this unless its Molt/Talon Stall.
Ability: Contrary
Tera Type: Ground/Steel
EVs: 64 Atk / 252 SpA / 192 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Moonblast
- Earth Power
- Superpower
- Taunt
I took months for players to realize Enamorus is more than just a Tera Stellar machine. Calm Mind Enam is an underrated breaker that can legit shut down some Fat builds. This set takes it a step further by punishing Blissey with Superpower, meaning most Stalls have a tough time fighting this unless its Molt/Talon Stall.
Garchomp (Garchomp) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Rough Skin
Tera Type: Water/Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 216 Def / 40 Spe
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Dragon Tail
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
Tankchomp in general is p underrated in the tier. Think of it as Lando + Ting-Lu as one. Helmet + Rough Skin is incredibly good into the merit of physical threats, Voltturn, and punishing U-Turns. Its also a pretty awesome blanket check to Moon as most of the time you only need to force it out once. D-Tail is also crucial for avoiding being cheesed by shit like Hawlucha, Ironpress Zama (minus Roar variants), B-Swipe G-Fire, and Curse Garg. All this while setting hazards. This fits only on more offensive structures as opposed to its competition that fits on everything, but it gets the job done. Not a fan of SD Chomp rn, it’s too slow and not strong enough to get going, plus its easy to check or rkill for most teams.
Ability: Rough Skin
Tera Type: Water/Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 216 Def / 40 Spe
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Dragon Tail
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
Tankchomp in general is p underrated in the tier. Think of it as Lando + Ting-Lu as one. Helmet + Rough Skin is incredibly good into the merit of physical threats, Voltturn, and punishing U-Turns. Its also a pretty awesome blanket check to Moon as most of the time you only need to force it out once. D-Tail is also crucial for avoiding being cheesed by shit like Hawlucha, Ironpress Zama (minus Roar variants), B-Swipe G-Fire, and Curse Garg. All this while setting hazards. This fits only on more offensive structures as opposed to its competition that fits on everything, but it gets the job done. Not a fan of SD Chomp rn, it’s too slow and not strong enough to get going, plus its easy to check or rkill for most teams.
Glimmora (Glimmora) @ Red Card
Ability: Toxic Debris
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 84 Def / 172 Spe
Bold Nature
- Stealth Rock/Spikes
- Power Gem
- Earth Power
- Mortal Spin
(172 Spe to outrun Raging Bolt and Gliscor)
More players have been experimenting with bulky Glimmora and I think it’s pretty neat. Lets you live hits you’d otherwise die to and get up hazards more easily or Red Card them away. Red Card is pretty broken on a mon that shits out T-Spikes everytime it gets hit with a physical move.
Ability: Toxic Debris
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 84 Def / 172 Spe
Bold Nature
- Stealth Rock/Spikes
- Power Gem
- Earth Power
- Mortal Spin
(172 Spe to outrun Raging Bolt and Gliscor)
More players have been experimenting with bulky Glimmora and I think it’s pretty neat. Lets you live hits you’d otherwise die to and get up hazards more easily or Red Card them away. Red Card is pretty broken on a mon that shits out T-Spikes everytime it gets hit with a physical move.
Gouging Fire (Gouging Fire) @ Booster Energy
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Heat Crash/Flare Blitz
- Tera Blast
- Morning Sun/Earthquake/Dragon Claw
Imo the best set is Booster Atk G-Fire. It’s just so bulky and hard hitting that you can legit get multiple boosts with it. Tera Blast Fairy is nice since Fairy is a naturally good defensive typing on top of resisting Sucker and you smack checks like Tusk, Prima, Zama, Ting-Lu, and Dnite. Morning Sun trolls players thinking they can beat it via chip. Earthquake smacks Garg/Tran while Dragon Claw hits the only other mon not hit by Fire/Fairy, Moltres.
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Heat Crash/Flare Blitz
- Tera Blast
- Morning Sun/Earthquake/Dragon Claw
Imo the best set is Booster Atk G-Fire. It’s just so bulky and hard hitting that you can legit get multiple boosts with it. Tera Blast Fairy is nice since Fairy is a naturally good defensive typing on top of resisting Sucker and you smack checks like Tusk, Prima, Zama, Ting-Lu, and Dnite. Morning Sun trolls players thinking they can beat it via chip. Earthquake smacks Garg/Tran while Dragon Claw hits the only other mon not hit by Fire/Fairy, Moltres.
Great Tusk (Great Tusk) @ Leftovers/Heavy-Duty Boots/Rocky Helmet
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 136 Atk / 140 SpD / 232 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Headlong Rush
- Ice Spinner
- Knock Off/Bulk Up/Stealth Rocks
- Rapid Spin
What this spread does is live Offensive Ghold’s Make it Rain after a layer of Spikes.
252 SpA Gholdengo Make It Rain vs. 0 HP / 140 SpD Great Tusk: 265-313 (71.4 - 84.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after 1 layer of Spikes and Leftovers recovery
Thus it makes spinning vs Ghold teams more consistent.
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 136 Atk / 140 SpD / 232 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Headlong Rush
- Ice Spinner
- Knock Off/Bulk Up/Stealth Rocks
- Rapid Spin
What this spread does is live Offensive Ghold’s Make it Rain after a layer of Spikes.
252 SpA Gholdengo Make It Rain vs. 0 HP / 140 SpD Great Tusk: 265-313 (71.4 - 84.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after 1 layer of Spikes and Leftovers recovery
Thus it makes spinning vs Ghold teams more consistent.
Heatran (Heatran) @ Eject Pack
Ability: Flame Body
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 248 HP / 144 SpA / 116 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Overheat
- Earth Power
- Tera Blast
You might recognize this set from Leng Loi’s RMT, but the team was used last year in SCL and by Heatranator. This set says f**k Magma Storm and runs Overheat + Eject Pack to pivot out after setting rocks. Tera Fairy Blast is really nice for punishing Dragons while being good neutral coverage into everything in conjunction with Fire/Ground.
Ability: Flame Body
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 248 HP / 144 SpA / 116 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Overheat
- Earth Power
- Tera Blast
You might recognize this set from Leng Loi’s RMT, but the team was used last year in SCL and by Heatranator. This set says f**k Magma Storm and runs Overheat + Eject Pack to pivot out after setting rocks. Tera Fairy Blast is really nice for punishing Dragons while being good neutral coverage into everything in conjunction with Fire/Ground.
Hoopa-Unbound (Hoopa-Unbound) @ Choice Band
Ability: Magician
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Hyperspace Fury
- Knock Off
- Gunk Shot
- Drain Punch/Zen Headbutt
AV is the better set for combining offense with defensive utility, but I had a blast with Band Hoopa. This only needs to click one move and its Hyperspace Fury which trucks even bulky resists like Gambit while having the luxury of not being scouted by Protect. Knock Off for secondary strong Dark STAB, and Gunk Shot to one-shot Fairies. It helps that most Gliscors are running less physical investment, so you can threaten them more reliably.
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Dark Hoopa-Unbound Hyperspace Fury vs. 244 HP / 52+ Def Gliscor: 302-356 (85.7 - 101.1%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
Ability: Magician
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Hyperspace Fury
- Knock Off
- Gunk Shot
- Drain Punch/Zen Headbutt
AV is the better set for combining offense with defensive utility, but I had a blast with Band Hoopa. This only needs to click one move and its Hyperspace Fury which trucks even bulky resists like Gambit while having the luxury of not being scouted by Protect. Knock Off for secondary strong Dark STAB, and Gunk Shot to one-shot Fairies. It helps that most Gliscors are running less physical investment, so you can threaten them more reliably.
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Dark Hoopa-Unbound Hyperspace Fury vs. 244 HP / 52+ Def Gliscor: 302-356 (85.7 - 101.1%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
Iron Moth (Iron Moth) @ Booster Energy
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 124 Def / 132 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fiery Dance
- Sludge Wave
- Tera Blast
- Substitute/Dazzling Gleam
The absolute rawest Moth set and all its just standard Iron Moth with Tera Dark instead. Tera Blast Dark hits Pult, Glowking, and Dirge while hitting Tran neutrally, but the main sell here is Dark defensively. Not only do you now resist Sucker, but you block Future Sight and Psyshock from killing you, or breaking your Sub. I’ve used this to surprise sweep many Balances reliant on Future Sight Gking to beat it. Please try this out.
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 124 Def / 132 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fiery Dance
- Sludge Wave
- Tera Blast
- Substitute/Dazzling Gleam
The absolute rawest Moth set and all its just standard Iron Moth with Tera Dark instead. Tera Blast Dark hits Pult, Glowking, and Dirge while hitting Tran neutrally, but the main sell here is Dark defensively. Not only do you now resist Sucker, but you block Future Sight and Psyshock from killing you, or breaking your Sub. I’ve used this to surprise sweep many Balances reliant on Future Sight Gking to beat it. Please try this out.
(Kingambit) @ Leftovers
Ability: Supreme Overlord
Tera Type: Dark/Flying/Fairy
EVs: 248 HP / 44 Atk / 216 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Kowtow Cleave
- Sucker Punch
- Iron Head
This Gambit spread makes Gambit less offenisvely overwhelming but stronger defensively. You tank Kyurem hits more reliably, and tank a +1 Tbolt from Raging Bolt at full.
Ability: Supreme Overlord
Tera Type: Dark/Flying/Fairy
EVs: 248 HP / 44 Atk / 216 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Kowtow Cleave
- Sucker Punch
- Iron Head
This Gambit spread makes Gambit less offenisvely overwhelming but stronger defensively. You tank Kyurem hits more reliably, and tank a +1 Tbolt from Raging Bolt at full.
Kyurem (Kyurem) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Pressure
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 28 Def / 252 SpA / 228 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Freeze-Dry
- Earth Power
- Body Press
While looking for the best 4th moveslot on Boots Kyurem, I stumpled upon Body Press. Draco is too weak and Scale Shot/Icicle Spear are inconsistent without Loaded Dice. Body Press 2HKOs Balloon Gambit, OHKOs Weavile, and 3HKOs Blissey, letting you burn up Soft-Boiled pp fast. Honestly Kyurem only really needs 3 moves, the 4th slot can be for whatever purpose.
Ability: Pressure
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 28 Def / 252 SpA / 228 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Freeze-Dry
- Earth Power
- Body Press
While looking for the best 4th moveslot on Boots Kyurem, I stumpled upon Body Press. Draco is too weak and Scale Shot/Icicle Spear are inconsistent without Loaded Dice. Body Press 2HKOs Balloon Gambit, OHKOs Weavile, and 3HKOs Blissey, letting you burn up Soft-Boiled pp fast. Honestly Kyurem only really needs 3 moves, the 4th slot can be for whatever purpose.
Latios (Latios) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Steel/Electric
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Luster Purge/Psyshock/Psychic Noise
- Thunderbolt
- Aura Sphere/Grass Knot
Maturing is realizing Latios doesn’t need to drop Dracos. Everything you’d normally hit with Draco gets hit by Psychic STAB or its coverage anyways, so I decided to take a page from UU and slap Calm Mind + Thunderbolt on it. +1 Thunderbolt 2HKOs Gholdengo and OHKOs the Steel birds while Tera Electric OHKOs SpD Corv. Tera Electric lets you sponge T-Wave, wall Zapdos, and Calm Mind in front of Ghold. Plus the obvious no weakness with Electric + Levitate. Since +1 Tera Electric Tbolt 2HKOs Gambit, I’ve considered Grass Knot which trucks Ting-Lu and OHKOs Garg at +1. Latios is hard to fit, but the teams that can use it appreciate its strengths as a Spikes Immune wallbreaker that helps with matchups like Volcanion, Heatran, or Kyurem + SD Gliscor if Tera Steel.
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Steel/Electric
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Luster Purge/Psyshock/Psychic Noise
- Thunderbolt
- Aura Sphere/Grass Knot
Maturing is realizing Latios doesn’t need to drop Dracos. Everything you’d normally hit with Draco gets hit by Psychic STAB or its coverage anyways, so I decided to take a page from UU and slap Calm Mind + Thunderbolt on it. +1 Thunderbolt 2HKOs Gholdengo and OHKOs the Steel birds while Tera Electric OHKOs SpD Corv. Tera Electric lets you sponge T-Wave, wall Zapdos, and Calm Mind in front of Ghold. Plus the obvious no weakness with Electric + Levitate. Since +1 Tera Electric Tbolt 2HKOs Gambit, I’ve considered Grass Knot which trucks Ting-Lu and OHKOs Garg at +1. Latios is hard to fit, but the teams that can use it appreciate its strengths as a Spikes Immune wallbreaker that helps with matchups like Volcanion, Heatran, or Kyurem + SD Gliscor if Tera Steel.
Ogerpon (Ogerpon) (F) @ Mirror Herb
Ability: Defiant
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Ivy Cudgel
- Knock Off
- Encore
Swords Dance Grasspon is underrated for sporting the classic SD + Encore combo. I decided to take things a step further with Mirror Herb on offensive teams. You switch in as they click Dragon Dance or Swords Dance, then you Tera and Encore. Now they have to deal with a giga boosted Grasspon. It’s not great but it’s fun to punish Moon
Ability: Defiant
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Ivy Cudgel
- Knock Off
- Encore
Swords Dance Grasspon is underrated for sporting the classic SD + Encore combo. I decided to take things a step further with Mirror Herb on offensive teams. You switch in as they click Dragon Dance or Swords Dance, then you Tera and Encore. Now they have to deal with a giga boosted Grasspon. It’s not great but it’s fun to punish Moon
Ogerpon-Wellspring (Ogerpon-Wellspring) (F) @ Wellspring Mask
Ability: Water Absorb
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 136 Atk / 120 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Ivy Cudgel
- Trailblaze
- Encore
Anyone saying Wogre struggles vs offense hasn’t seen this set yet. Similar idea as Mirror Herb but actually good. Trailblaze punishes teams for sacking in front of Wogre and Zama for clicking Iron Defense via Encore. I’m a huge fan of Adamant since your Cudgels become stronger and can OHKO targets like Moon at +2 with Tera. This is the set that convinced me Wogre is a problem.
Ability: Water Absorb
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 136 Atk / 120 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Ivy Cudgel
- Trailblaze
- Encore
Anyone saying Wogre struggles vs offense hasn’t seen this set yet. Similar idea as Mirror Herb but actually good. Trailblaze punishes teams for sacking in front of Wogre and Zama for clicking Iron Defense via Encore. I’m a huge fan of Adamant since your Cudgels become stronger and can OHKO targets like Moon at +2 with Tera. This is the set that convinced me Wogre is a problem.
Slowking-Galar (Slowking-Galar) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 248 HP / 132 Def / 128 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Psyshock/Psychic Noise
- Surf
- Flamethrower/Slack Off
A SS OU classic. Its not good into Offense and performs worse as a Kyurem check, but wow does this shred Balance. Glowking’s nautral longevity lets it get off several opportunities to clean house. The physical bulk allows you to pivot around Wogre, eat Earthquakes, eat a Knock from Weavile, and the speed invesment outpaces Ting-Lu which you truck with +2 Surf. It also threatens OHKOs on other bulky Grounds, especially with Tera. Psychic/Water hits most things neutrally, but you can run Flamethrower over Slack Off to immediately threaten Gambit/Ghold.
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 248 HP / 132 Def / 128 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Psyshock/Psychic Noise
- Surf
- Flamethrower/Slack Off
A SS OU classic. Its not good into Offense and performs worse as a Kyurem check, but wow does this shred Balance. Glowking’s nautral longevity lets it get off several opportunities to clean house. The physical bulk allows you to pivot around Wogre, eat Earthquakes, eat a Knock from Weavile, and the speed invesment outpaces Ting-Lu which you truck with +2 Surf. It also threatens OHKOs on other bulky Grounds, especially with Tera. Psychic/Water hits most things neutrally, but you can run Flamethrower over Slack Off to immediately threaten Gambit/Ghold.
Fast Taunt Ting-Lu (Ting-Lu) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Vessel of Ruin
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 240 HP / 16 Def / 64 SpD / 188 Spe
Impish Nature
- Spikes
- Ruination
- Earthquake
- Taunt
Fast Ting-Lu is a Vert-made hood classic. Anything this dude touches is gold. What it does is disrupt other walls with Taunt, especially Defog Corv and get off Spikes. Helmet also punishes Gambit and random U-Turns. Its good at stacking Spikes and keeping them up.
Ability: Vessel of Ruin
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 240 HP / 16 Def / 64 SpD / 188 Spe
Impish Nature
- Spikes
- Ruination
- Earthquake
- Taunt
Fast Ting-Lu is a Vert-made hood classic. Anything this dude touches is gold. What it does is disrupt other walls with Taunt, especially Defog Corv and get off Spikes. Helmet also punishes Gambit and random U-Turns. Its good at stacking Spikes and keeping them up.
Zamazenta (Zamazenta) @ Expert Belt
Ability: Dauntless Shield
Tera Type: Fire/Ice
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Heavy Slam/Iron Head
- Crunch
- Ice Fang/Tera Blast
Dropping a new broken Zama set here. AoA is kinda weak with Boots and Jolly. Life Orb could be run, but getting chipped makes it easier to check or be pivot around. Then I saw E-Belt, gave it an Adamant nature since it threatens most of the base 120s anyways, and thus created a monster.
Peep this, you 2HKO defensive Ghold after rocks.
252+ Atk Expert Belt Zamazenta Crunch vs. 252 HP / 196+ Def Gholdengo: 170-202 (44.9 - 53.4%) -- 88.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
2HKO Gliscor and Lando.
252+ Atk Expert Belt Zamazenta Ice Fang vs. 244 HP / 248+ Def Gliscor: 221-264 (62.7 - 75%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal
-1 252+ Atk Expert Belt Zamazenta Ice Fang vs. 252 HP / 220+ Def Landorus-Therian: 187-226 (48.9 - 59.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Small roll to OHKO Pult on the switch.
252+ Atk Expert Belt Zamazenta Crunch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragapult: 276-326 (87 - 102.8%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
Guarantee a 2-shot on Tera Fairy Bolt with Iron Head.
252+ Atk Expert Belt Zamazenta Iron Head vs. 64 HP / 28 Def Tera Fairy Raging Bolt: 230-271 (56.5 - 66.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Guarantee an OHKO on Valiant.
252+ Atk Expert Belt Zamazenta Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Iron Valiant: 355-420 (122.4 - 144.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
And potentially OHKO Wogre after rocks.
252+ Atk Zamazenta Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ogerpon-Wellspring: 235-277 (78 - 92%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Ability: Dauntless Shield
Tera Type: Fire/Ice
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Heavy Slam/Iron Head
- Crunch
- Ice Fang/Tera Blast
Dropping a new broken Zama set here. AoA is kinda weak with Boots and Jolly. Life Orb could be run, but getting chipped makes it easier to check or be pivot around. Then I saw E-Belt, gave it an Adamant nature since it threatens most of the base 120s anyways, and thus created a monster.
Peep this, you 2HKO defensive Ghold after rocks.
252+ Atk Expert Belt Zamazenta Crunch vs. 252 HP / 196+ Def Gholdengo: 170-202 (44.9 - 53.4%) -- 88.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
2HKO Gliscor and Lando.
252+ Atk Expert Belt Zamazenta Ice Fang vs. 244 HP / 248+ Def Gliscor: 221-264 (62.7 - 75%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal
-1 252+ Atk Expert Belt Zamazenta Ice Fang vs. 252 HP / 220+ Def Landorus-Therian: 187-226 (48.9 - 59.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Small roll to OHKO Pult on the switch.
252+ Atk Expert Belt Zamazenta Crunch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragapult: 276-326 (87 - 102.8%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
Guarantee a 2-shot on Tera Fairy Bolt with Iron Head.
252+ Atk Expert Belt Zamazenta Iron Head vs. 64 HP / 28 Def Tera Fairy Raging Bolt: 230-271 (56.5 - 66.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Guarantee an OHKO on Valiant.
252+ Atk Expert Belt Zamazenta Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Iron Valiant: 355-420 (122.4 - 144.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
And potentially OHKO Wogre after rocks.
252+ Atk Zamazenta Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ogerpon-Wellspring: 235-277 (78 - 92%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
I hope y’all have a pleasant day.
It's interesting to see an increase in ban sentiment for Zamazenta. For those who actually like the current meta, be careful what you wish for as a Zama ban will likely result in 3+ more bans after you guys boot the dog. Banning Zamazenta would have by far the largest effect on the meta compared to any other ban.
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I'm a cat person. Simple as that.
i usually pick spikes on chomp and run endure or rest. its honestly pretty gross because if a pokemon makes contact, endure turns a 2hko into a 3hko, which brings a pokemon from full down to about 13%
the +1 from hone claws is actually only slightly less than the stab boost from protean because of how damage calculation works:
+1 252 Atk Meowscarada Triple Axel (120 BP) (3 hits) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Abomasnow in Snow: 149-177 (46.4 - 55.1%) -- approx. 64.5% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Protean Meowscarada Triple Axel (120 BP) (3 hits) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Abomasnow in Snow: 151-179 (47 - 55.7%) -- approx. 71.1% chance to 2HKO
factoring in the miss chances, the second one is actually less likely to 2hko than the first. so there's definite arguments to be made for its effectiveness in terms of damage output. i do think it's not worth it because you lose out on pivotability by merit of being setup, because meow can almost never afford to spend turns not doing damage, and because band protean just does way more
This was mostly an awesome post. You have a lot of heat sets and all that. I wanted to like it. I really did. But I couldn't. I'm mad because you're gonna get Kyurem banned. Umm... Let me rephrase that because some of you reading this probably think that is a good thing. You're going to break the meta.
Basically, Kyurem doesn't need anything else to abuse. Body Press was my biggest concern on a mon that was already pretty borderline. If this thing starts dropping stuff like Blissey with Body Press on a regular bases, it's a big problem. And now it is kinda moderator endorsed. This was one development I didn't want to see.
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(seriously though this is Not a gouging fire breaking swipe case were people just simply started adapting via mola + gliscor cores or curse dozo or even roar zama, this is now having to worry even more about if kyurem is gonna be pure specs or special hdb or loaded dice or mixed earth power + ice beam + freeze and scaleshot or dragon dance icicle spear + freeze + earth power and Now it can be an extra variation of 3 special + 1 physical)
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Someone cooked here
Dark moth and Body Press Kyurem are really crazy
body press kyurem is actual meta-revolutionizing shit and it just got casually dropped in here like it ain't no thang. we just witnessed the competitive pokemon equivalent of a major scientific breakthrough in real time
I mean, I stated this as a concern on the 14th. I realize that's a different thing than actually creating a viable set with actual analyses and playtesting, but I don't think this came that far out of left field.
Not to take credit away from Gren, though. They can have all the blame for when we have to ban Kyurem. And all their sets were great in general.
Stupid wolf and stupid ice dragon are two mons I hope people fully 'figure' out so we can get them out. Let the chaos erupt, I'm ready for the bloodshed
We can agree and disagree on whether a Kyurem ban is positive or not but I do not think that a Kyurem ban breaks the meta. I can see those concerns for Zama, who by itself covers so much nearly-broken stuff. I could and did see that for Volc, who was a great Ice and Fairy check, even if the meta seems fine without it. However, all Kyurem does for the meta is make me run AV Glow when I'm running a fatter team. I fail to see the slippery slope with banning Kyurem, so if you would clarify this point thatd be great. Brb omw to spam BP Kyurem until I get it banned
First of all, I've not been pro-ban or anti-ban on Kyurem. I stated at the time of the suspect that I was neutral. I didn't particularly care whether that borderline threat stayed or went. But that was before it starts abusing Body Press, which to me is the final straw to a mon that was already borderline. This would force my hand to be pro-ban when I wanted to be Switzerland.
I often find myself torn between wanting to ban as few mons as possible and wanting to address threat saturation. Threat saturation was the biggest priority for me with how much of a mess DLC 2 was to start. But the current meta is much improved after the Volc ban. Kyurem being banned now is maybe bad timing. It would be the biggest special wallbreaker in the tier gone right after we correctly banned the biggest special setup sweeper in Volc. It's not that there aren't any good special attackers left, but teams were already trending towards prioritizing physical defense a bit more heavily than special defense because of the greater amount of dire physical threats.
I don't think Zama is broken. And I never bought the Volc defensive utility narratives, which were incredibly overstated and not without alternatives. IMO, the most pressing threat is Roaring Moon. Roaring Moon has limited ban support among top players, though. Now the focus would be Kyurem, and after that, players will just stack physical defense and maybe just claim all these crazy physical threats are fine. Though this is pure theorymon, I am a bit wary of what this meta shake up could do just when it was starting to look nicer.
okay, but where tf is choice specs dragonite. Its so funny when the opponent switches in dondozo expecting me to DD Espeed and tries forcing a switch and then
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragonite Draco Meteor over 2 turns vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Unaware Dondozo: 746-882 (148 - 175%) -- guaranteed KO in 2 turns
I usually run Draco + Ice beam cause that is Dclaw/Outrage + Ice Spinner type coverage, which is commonly run, and I usually don't use Tbolt cause the main water/flying types can be K.Oed by Draco and Fire Blast, so in the last moveslot I like to run
0- Atk Dragonite Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Clodsire: 248-294 (53.5 - 63.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
no investments in EVs and a bad nature, can 2HKO Clodsire.
0- Atk Dragonite Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Heatran: 316-376 (81.8 - 97.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
and heatran as well.
I do not see Zamazenta as banworthy. It doesn’t really punish initial switchins well enough to be too much. Body Press sets are obviously the focus here, and they are very strong for sure. But Body Press is frequently immunized or even 4x resisted, meaning Zamazenta has to rely on covers like Crunch (or HSlam/Edge less commonly). Crunch isn’t really able to 2HKO PDef Ghold (often Cloak for Garg and defense drops) or do enough to severely punish GKing scouting, OHKO Dragapult, etc.
Every singular set between Sub, RestoChesto, Roar, and 3A has enough counterplay individually with some overlap, and figuring out which set isn’t too challenging seeing as one “wrong” pivot can be contained. Timely Tera Steel or Tera Fire can patch up singular interactions nicely, but seldom does this default to teams getting swept so much as just putting an extra burden. Obviously there are times when a game can ultimately end with a Zamazenta sweep despite these conditions, but this is often due to out-positioning or other factors coming to play, which is not exactly a sign of it being broken so much as a good Pokemon and good play being effective.
With something like Volcarona, you frequently end up roadkill if you get the initial sequence wrong. With something like Archaludon, counterplay was too thin and even inconsistent. But with Zamazenta, there are a lot of flexible methods for counterplay and teams frequently fit multiple of them. The added defensive value obviously makes it easier to use than something like a Volcarona, but Zamazenta to me is far more a very good Pokemon than a broken one.
Every singular set between Sub, RestoChesto, Roar, and 3A has enough counterplay individually with some overlap, and figuring out which set isn’t too challenging seeing as one “wrong” pivot can be contained. Timely Tera Steel or Tera Fire can patch up singular interactions nicely, but seldom does this default to teams getting swept so much as just putting an extra burden. Obviously there are times when a game can ultimately end with a Zamazenta sweep despite these conditions, but this is often due to out-positioning or other factors coming to play, which is not exactly a sign of it being broken so much as a good Pokemon and good play being effective.
With something like Volcarona, you frequently end up roadkill if you get the initial sequence wrong. With something like Archaludon, counterplay was too thin and even inconsistent. But with Zamazenta, there are a lot of flexible methods for counterplay and teams frequently fit multiple of them. The added defensive value obviously makes it easier to use than something like a Volcarona, but Zamazenta to me is far more a very good Pokemon than a broken one.
Counter point
You require a turn of set up on a Pokemon that’s pretty frail and has tons of weaknesses and has tons of Pokemon that can outspeed it. So you do have to factor in that Protean can use it twice or even at all, while Hone Claws at best factors in 1 less usage.
So it should look like
Hit 1 kick over 2 turns = 0.9% * 20
Hit 2 kicks turn 1 and miss second turn = 0.81% * 60
etc.
Then add up all those possibilities, and yeah it’ll be stronger overall to use Protean.
Granted you do still have Knock Off and Flower Trick on your STABs since you’d be going for Overgrowth on such a set and can potentially get an even bigger boost with Flower Trick too if you’re at low health.
It is arguably better against more defensive teams however as the expected probability ends up getting closer.
I made a thread on twitter replying to this, but I do think that Zama is worthy of a suspect test at least. I will absolutely concede that it is less broken than something like volcorona, since it can't flip its matchups as easily, but I think that it is an oppressive and constraining mon on teambuilding.
Zama is a little bit like gambit to me, insofar as they can both quickly set up and sweep if given even just a small window of opportunity and you don't have a hard counter. This makes counterplay a necessary thought when teambuilding, making it restricting. I don't think that this necessarily makes it broken, but I do think that it is worthy of a suspect test.
In terms of counterplay, I find that tera fire, substitute sets hard to counter, being able to sub and avoid status on everything but pult, and avoid wisp with tera. SpDef EVs allow it to easily tank ghost moves and hit hard back with a crunch given that most ghosts are frail. I think that the best counters to this would be defensive gholdengo with covert cloak, as mentioned, or fairies. Zama does, in fact, have four move-slot syndrome, not allowing it to run all of the moves that it wants to without giving up something important, meaning that there is theoretically always a counter to it. Compare this to a mon like volcorona, whose moves have far fewer resistances and immunities and loves tera-ing past its counters. Yet, like gambit, fainting your opponents' counters to sweep late game with zama is far too common
However, I do think that the most important feature of zama is that it checks gambit when gambit isn't running tera blast, perhaps making it a necessary broken-checks-broken.
While I wouldn't vote ban in a suspect test, I do think that its oppression on teambuilding does make it a worthy candidate of a suspect test.
Zamazenta is fine. The real issue I see with the meta right now is Booster Energy. Even since the prehome meta, mons associated with this item have been an issue. For example, the most egregious offenders (legal for longer than a week) were Iron Valiant and Roaring Moon. Both of these mons had very viable calls for a suspect at the time because Booster Energy raises their speed and attack to ludicrous levels, respectively, compared to the rest of the metagame. Next, we had Walking Wake drop, and the meta scrambled to find checks before we thankfully got one or two in DLC (prim, raging bolt). Fast-forward to now and we have Walking Wakes, Gouging Fires, Raging Bolts, Iron Moths, Roaring Moons, Iron Valiants and EVEN GREAT TUSKS boosting their stats to levels previously-reserved for a mon that had to be choice-locked. Meanwhile the meta still is struggling to cope with these threats. According to usage stats, the most common Walking Wake checks are Blissey/Clodsire (mostly reserved for stall), Roaring moon, and Raging Bolt. The most common Raging Bolt checks are similar with the addition of steel/grounds Iron Treads and Excadrill, both of which are suboptimal mons to run and get easily countered by weather ball/terablast sets. Iron Moth, a mon that was UU until recently surging back in popularity with Sub and other techs, gets checked by dnite and the aforementioned special stall walls. Roaring Moon trades for at least a mon against BO/Balance and can outright sweep most offenses without a dedicated answer.
If you aren't packing one of the specific checks I just mentioned, each of these booster mons can set up in your face and just sweep. Without the added power of booster energy, they become much easier to prep for and play against.
The most common argument for keeping Booster Energy in the meta I see is that, since it is a one-time boost, just force the mon out! My response is this: there are very few options present in the current metagame that can force a boosting paradox mon off the field. Booster Spatk Raging Bolt clicking CM on your offense team? Better hope you have a booster speed ival with encore. Booster Attack GFire/RMoon clicking DD on your fat team? Better hope you're packing unaware Dozo or roar Zama. Not to mention these booster threats can tera to beat most of their checks.
Another point I see defending Booster Energy is that its a balancing force in the metagame. "How am I supposed to check these fast threats on offense without booster ival?" Use a scarf mon like God intended. "How am I supposed to break stall without booster gouging/bolt/rmoon?" Use one of the multitude of other choices the metagame offers.
Now that the meta has settled into something of a (albeit tenuous) balanced state, I think it's time we re-evaluate some of the things that make this gen so swingy, such as Booster Energy. Combining booster and tera exacerbates the issue, but since the playerbase likes tera so much, I won't bother getting into it.
Edit: I agree that Zamazenta is a potential issue in the meta, but I think a booster suspect would be more impactful in terms of making a positive change to Gen 9 OU.
If you aren't packing one of the specific checks I just mentioned, each of these booster mons can set up in your face and just sweep. Without the added power of booster energy, they become much easier to prep for and play against.
The most common argument for keeping Booster Energy in the meta I see is that, since it is a one-time boost, just force the mon out! My response is this: there are very few options present in the current metagame that can force a boosting paradox mon off the field. Booster Spatk Raging Bolt clicking CM on your offense team? Better hope you have a booster speed ival with encore. Booster Attack GFire/RMoon clicking DD on your fat team? Better hope you're packing unaware Dozo or roar Zama. Not to mention these booster threats can tera to beat most of their checks.
Another point I see defending Booster Energy is that its a balancing force in the metagame. "How am I supposed to check these fast threats on offense without booster ival?" Use a scarf mon like God intended. "How am I supposed to break stall without booster gouging/bolt/rmoon?" Use one of the multitude of other choices the metagame offers.
Now that the meta has settled into something of a (albeit tenuous) balanced state, I think it's time we re-evaluate some of the things that make this gen so swingy, such as Booster Energy. Combining booster and tera exacerbates the issue, but since the playerbase likes tera so much, I won't bother getting into it.
Edit: I agree that Zamazenta is a potential issue in the meta, but I think a booster suspect would be more impactful in terms of making a positive change to Gen 9 OU.
The one thing I want to mention that your post doesn't address (as in I assume you have a response but it wasn't initially included so prompting for it) is that Booster Energy doesn't make enough threats Unhealthy across the board to justify hitting the item rather than the abusers. Like the immediate question is how broken does Booster Energy become inherently when we have obviously-balanced users like most lower-tier Paradoxes (Slither Wing, Scream Tail, Sandy Shocks), and not much stink is being raised about even some good users like Iron Treads and Valiant. It's a harder case to make that Booster Energy should go in terms of tiering policy vs abusers considered overbearing like Bolt or Moon.
There just won't be action on Booster Energy given that Flutter Mane and Iron Bundle were broken without Booster Energy, and the only even remotely contentious mons in OU with Booster Energy are Roaring moon and to a lesser extent, Gouging Fire.
Raging Bolt is a perfectly balanced mon even with Booster Energy, and there are so many Paradox mons that have easy-to-stop Booster Energy sets that it's a non-issue. The bar for action on Booster Energy has not been met and won't anytime soon.
Raging Bolt is a perfectly balanced mon even with Booster Energy, and there are so many Paradox mons that have easy-to-stop Booster Energy sets that it's a non-issue. The bar for action on Booster Energy has not been met and won't anytime soon.
Might be a controversial opinion, but even if Zamazenta is banned, I don't think Kingambit would be too much of an issue. There is a lot of anti-Gambit technology out there, with easy lures like Focus Blast Gholdengo, Brick Break Roaring Moon, Low Kick Weavile / Ogerpon-TM / Meowscarada, etc. on top of multiple different answers ranging from Lando-T, Great Tusk, Corviknight, Skarmory, and a multitude of lesser used Fighting- or Dark-types like Keldeo, Chestnaught, Hydreigon, Cobalion, etc (many of which would become more viable without Zamazenta largely outclassing them). Most of these aren't hard counters persay due to Tera, but while Gambit is one of the strongest Tera users, clicking Tera with it also isn't completely riskless in most cases (the biggest exception being against Stall, where Tera Dark can be a bit riskless against certain Dondozo variants after the opponent expends their defensive Tera to deal with another threat). On occasions, there will be other users of Tera that will be better (such as Zamazenta or Gouging Fire) or Gambit's base typing will be needed to help deal with certain threats better (i.e. certain Gholdengo variants, Weavile, etc.).
I'm not advocating for a Zamazenta suspect, but I think Kingambit will be managable in a Zama-less meta.
I'm not advocating for a Zamazenta suspect, but I think Kingambit will be managable in a Zama-less meta.
Thank you for pointing this out. Definitely something I missed in my counterpoint section. I'm going to respond to this one since it is much better written and doesn't contain points I already addressed in my original post (i.e. Bolt being "perfectly balanced and easy to stop").
Not every Booster Energy user has to be top-tier with booster, just like how not every mon with Hypnosis was top-tier. The ones that ARE top-tier, though, are really oppressive, in my opinion, but don't have to be banned on their own. Iron Valiant and the rare Iron Boulder break speed tiers while GFire/Rmoon/Bolt just bust through teams. Their checks don't even have to be fully removed. To address the point made about Iron Bundle/Flutter Mane being broken without booster, that doesn't change the fact that they would be broken WITH booster, too.
The argument I'm making is with regards to mons and booster energy AS THEY ARE IN OU. Mons that are Ubers without Booster would still be Ubers. Mons that are lower tier with booster will still be lower tier after a potential ban. The only mons a booster ban would affect are borderline-broken mons that people have issue with. Does that make sense? I'm happy to explain more.
I think Kingambit would be a lot harder to handle without Zamazenta and Ogerpon-Wellspring, with the latter almost certainly being banned in the next suspect test if Zama were banned. Ogerpon-Cornerstone and base Ogerpon are nowhere near as splashable, and a lot of the lower-viability mons you listed as answers are just not great in general. While I could see Kingambit being managable with Zama gone, it will be a lot harder to deal with if Wellspring also goes.