Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4 [Volcarona Banned]

I can't say I entirely agree with the notion that the top mons are so much better than the rest of the metagame. I do agree that there are a fair deal of brokers, but a lot of the lower tiers are still viable. I feel this notion of lower tiers being bad or more difficult to run mainly come from players who don't realize how insane some of them are.

Remember, mons like Manaphy, Iron Moth, Zapdos, etc were considered borderline OP in DLC1, and other mons like Garg were considered OP in earlier metas. While these mons are seeing less usage, nothing is really stopping them from still being threatening to most teams and still finding success. Playstyles like sand which have been down bad are also able to see success now with new partners like Exca.
 

KamenOH

formerly DynamaxBestMeta
like this, for example; how is broken mons being commonplace in OU "just a higher power level" while broken mons being commonplace in ubers is "actually a broken meta"? by your logic, shouldnt ubers be a perfectly fine tier that just so happens to be powercrept? its not (the previous generation)OU, after all, its inherently going to have a higher power level and we should just accept it, shouldnt we?
You assume that the mons in OU are broken.
The actual meta mons in Ubers are not only above and beyond what OU is, but also have clear differences in power that you allude to elsewhere in your post. As I stated previously, mons such as the raidons and groudon/kyogre are so overwhelmingly better than everything else that you are at an inherent disadvantage if you don't also bring them, which is markedly different from OU. While yes, there are some mons that are better than others, hence the viability rankings (though i do not doubt that you know of them), you aren't strictly worse off for not running what is best. As good as Kingambit, Great Tusk, Gholdengo, and Iron Valiant are, a majority of teams will not be running some or any of them.
As generations progress, you are right in that their power levels will creep. However, that isn't to say that it will be a bad thing, like I assume you are implying. We should accept this fact, that things will get stronger over time. We should not accept mons that are so much better that you are de facto required to run them in order to win. You did not need Archaludon in order to win, as many Sun teams have proven, for example, while you would need Flutter Mane to win because it has 135 Speed and Special Attack, with nasty coverage. You are unquestionably better off with it, than without.
 
Because Ubers is, in no uncertain words, a proper shithole in comparison to OU. Shit beyond broken here is commonplace, and I prefer having at least a semblance of strategy in my metas. No place for strategy when Mewtwo, Miraidon, and Koraidon are involved.



Annihilape:
Rain Pelipper run Hurricane quite often, and are bulky enough to win the confrontation, while Dragapult, Darkrai, and Gholdengo offer strong Ghost attacks to bring it down, Darkrai less recommended than others.
Archaludon:
Many great members of the community brought up answers, but I don't want to assume that you'd agree with them.
Baxcalibur:
Enamorus, Great Tusk, Iron Valiant, Primarina (thats ou? damn good for it), and like maybe a couple others are all good checks/counters, mostly checks but they all have good non-fire SE moves, and are OU. Can't have non-OU mons used to fight OU mons, after all.
Chi-Yu:
This fucker thrives in the sun, but that shits overrated because it's rain season. Its fire attacks are halved, and there's 8 fucking water types, as well as at least three ground types to use. It's strong, but not unbeatable.
Chein-Pao:
It's an Ice/Dark type that relies on its speed and Atk to fuck shit up, but thats fine and dandy because Iron Valiant can booster outspeed, while Kingambit our lord and savior regularly runs Low Kick, as well as Iron Head. Two top mons that should be on a good chunk of teams.
Espathra:

It has to burn a Tera if it wants to stay in. Otherwise, its Psychic type fodder that has 4MSS if it wants anything but stored power. It could run tera fairy, but then it opens itself to Steel and Poison attacks, which arent uncommon.
Flutter Mane:
It's diet mewtwo, cracked speed n special, with enough coverage to count. it can stay banned.
Iron Bundle:
Unless Raging Bolt Thunderclap OHKOS, this minmaxed fuckboy should also stay banned. I would say Electro Shot, but muh broken beats broken, which should only apply if we even agree on whats broken. I will not say FM can keep something OU, because that's patently ridiculous.
Ogerpon Heathcliffe:
As a Fire/Grass type with no item, it has rather good resistances to its weaknesses. Pelipper is, besides just winging it with Tera Flying Tera Blast, my only consistent option. Regrettably, keep it banned.
Palafin:
It requires two total turns to be its best. Rillaboom, Raging Bolt, and other water types are good checks that can make it swap back out, and help you regain momentum. Unless that fucker packs Ice Punch hundo %, Zapdos too.
Regieleki:
You are burning your tera with regieleki. Using it without it being net bullshit besides being the third electric type in OU requires burning your tera to Tera Ice. Being a pure ice type comes with all the net negatives of being fucking ice type. If you arent using your tera on this mon, regieleki will be walled by any ground type or electric resist.
This fucker wouldn't be banned if tera wasnt a thing, like its UU/RU self was back in gen 8. Instead, we get base 100 boltbeam coverage, that would die to a body press. Its frail, and very fast, and was contentious even when it was banned.
Sneasler:
Im tired as fuck rn man, dire claw is cheese hell.
Terapagos:
Jesus fuck just ban its Stellar Form like we did Zygarde Complete. It's a slow, tanky normal type otherwise with defenses slightly better than mew and an attack stat of 105. It can't even Tera normally, so its just mediocre otherwise. Gen 2 Tauros ass mon, but since we apparently can't separate Stellar from its normal form, even though we could separate complete zygarde from zygarde, its banned. With Stellar its ban, without it aint.
Okay, let's look at all of these mons properly.
Annihilape: Rage fist go brrr. It has enough bulk to take that ghost hit and fire back. Plus with tera, you can remove that weakness and take 25%.
Archaludon: the only one I can see somewhat working, but having to be forced to run clod on lots of teams ain't healthy.
Baxcalibur: Can live anything under veil+snow, and only primarina resists both stabs. One mon countering something while it destroys everything else isn't healthy.
Chi-Yu: If a special attacker that has decent speed can beat Blissey without psyshock, that ain't healthy. Also, it doesn't need sun to dominate, that's just the cherry on top.
Chien-Pao: only iron valiant can take on pao, and it commonly runs sacred sword to destroy gambit. Banded crunch probs can 3hit ko it anyways.
Esparthra: can brute force it's way past steel types and being forced to tera ain't that bad when you destroy everything in the tier while getting stronger. Stored power destroys anything not a dark type which can be beaten by dazzling gleam.
Flutter name: thank god you didn't try to argue against it's brokeness otherwise I would have a stroke.
Iron bundle: thank god we are not that brain dead
Hearth flame: grass+fire is amazing coverage. Slap on play rough, and nothing is surviving.
Palafin: 160 attack ain't that broken apparently. Plus, it can easily slot in cc or ice punch to destroy checks. Combine that with 100 speed and amazing bulk, and you need a raging bolt and rillaboom to survive it.
Regieleki: wasn't contentious in the slightest. Doesn't matter if you have a bad defensive typing when nothing resists your attacks and you can outspeed anything. I lied about not having a stroke, this take is so bad I might have 2.
Sneasler: best set didn't even use dire claw, so can't even say that.
Terapagos: yes it probs isn't ban worthy without tera, but with it is bs incarnate. We don't live in a world without tera, so continue taking your copium.

Most of these mons are ban worthy even without tera, you can't just say it's tera's fault. I went through all your reasoning and half of them are 'lol, X mon counters it' which is not a good argument. Kyogre has counters, yes, but we don't unban it because it would be constraining.
 

KamenOH

formerly DynamaxBestMeta
Okay, let's look at all of these mons properly.
Annihilape: Rage fist go brrr. It has enough bulk to take that ghost hit and fire back. Plus with tera, you can remove that weakness and take 25%.
Archaludon: the only one I can see somewhat working, but having to be forced to run clod on lots of teams ain't healthy.
Baxcalibur: Can live anything under veil+snow, and only primarina resists both stabs. One mon countering something while it destroys everything else isn't healthy.
Chi-Yu: If a special attacker that has decent speed can beat Blissey without psyshock, that ain't healthy. Also, it doesn't need sun to dominate, that's just the cherry on top.
Chien-Pao: only iron valiant can take on pao, and it commonly runs sacred sword to destroy gambit. Banded crunch probs can 3hit ko it anyways.
Esparthra: can brute force it's way past steel types and being forced to tera ain't that bad when you destroy everything in the tier while getting stronger. Stored power destroys anything not a dark type which can be beaten by dazzling gleam.
Flutter name: thank god you didn't try to argue against it's brokeness otherwise I would have a stroke.
Iron bundle: thank god we are not that brain dead
Hearth flame: grass+fire is amazing coverage. Slap on play rough, and nothing is surviving.
Palafin: 160 attack ain't that broken apparently. Plus, it can easily slot in cc or ice punch to destroy checks. Combine that with 100 speed and amazing bulk, and you need a raging bolt and rillaboom to survive it.
Regieleki: wasn't contentious in the slightest. Doesn't matter if you have a bad defensive typing when nothing resists your attacks and you can outspeed anything. I lied about not having a stroke, this take is so bad I might have 2.
Sneasler: best set didn't even use dire claw, so can't even say that.
Terapagos: yes it probs isn't ban worthy without tera, but with it is bs incarnate. We don't live in a world without tera, so continue taking your copium.

Most of these mons are ban worthy even without tera, you can't just say it's tera's fault. I went through all your reasoning and half of them are 'lol, X mon counters it' which is not a good argument. Kyogre has counters, yes, but we don't unban it because it would be constraining.
Gonna be real, I'll edit this possibly tomorrow with better responses, but what in OU counters Kyogre. Genuinely? Not exactly a diss on your point but a better example to illustrate what you mean would be nice.
 
Gonna be real, I'll edit this possibly tomorrow with better responses, but what in OU counters Kyogre. Genuinely? Not exactly a diss on your point but a better example to illustrate what you mean would be nice.
Water pon is immune to water moves, can outspeed and hit it hard with grass move. Walking wake can take a water move, outspeed and hit it hard with dragon move.
Rillaboom can use grassy glide to revenge kill it.
Dragonite can take a hit with multi scale and hit it with a e-speed, weakening spout damage.
Lots of mons can outspeed it like booster valiant and fast Scarfers and deal great damage to it.
Raging bolt can hit it with a thunderclap and heavily damage it.
Technically quite a few, but that doesn't make kyogre balanced. You can technically counter anything, but that doesn't make it balanced. The counterplay has to be splashable, which the mons you listed do not really have. If you don't run a specific counter you should be able to still play around it.
 
Sad to see Bridge go, not bc it wasnt overpowered, bc it certainly was, but bc it was the first suspect where i actually flipped on my opinion. seeing bridge break my trust by electro shotting everything in sight didnt make much for its ban allegations.

sad that GF will probably leave too, i have had enormous fun and success with an SpDef set but ofc thats not the broken set lolz

and also Great Neck will probably be booted, and the only Great Neck will be the great neck your mother gave me last night, Trebek

sorry for that guys im just super sad to not be nominated for the smog awards im clearly super funny :c
 
It kinda sucks that Arch was so broken in rain, because outside of rain it was just a really solid mon with a nice defensive profile. I think it added a lot to the tier.

I personally think that the main problem is tera, and since we don't discuss abt it, banning every strong mon won't solve the tier
This is true. There's been absolutely no discussion about banning Tera this gen. Especially not in the OU meta discussion threads. It hasn't come up a single time.
 
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Annihilape:
Rain Pelipper run Hurricane quite often, and are bulky enough to win the confrontation, while Dragapult, Darkrai, and Gholdengo offer strong Ghost attacks to bring it down, Darkrai less recommended than others.
pult and ghold were extremely common in pre-home too and that didn't stop annihilape from being broken. darkrai can't switch into it at all and peli has serious trouble if rocks are up, which isn't hard to do on teams with annihilape since it's such a fantastic spinblocker
Archaludon:
Many great members of the community brought up answers, but I don't want to assume that you'd agree with them.
i did agree with the anti-ban arguments until i actually used arch rain for the first time and started picking up matches i had no business winning. i might not be great at the game but i'm fantastic at knowing when something is wrong
Baxcalibur:
Enamorus, Great Tusk, Iron Valiant, Primarina (thats ou? damn good for it), and like maybe a couple others are all good checks/counters, mostly checks but they all have good non-fire SE moves, and are OU. Can't have non-OU mons used to fight OU mons, after all.
out of those, only primarina didn't exist when bax got axed. not much has changed that would prevent bax from being broken, and what has changed would potentially make it more broken than it was before thanks to the meteoric rise of glowking, which would be a great partner for bax in the same way that it's a great partner for kyurem because they're the same fucking mon
Chi-Yu:
This fucker thrives in the sun, but that shits overrated because it's rain season. Its fire attacks are halved, and there's 8 fucking water types, as well as at least three ground types to use. It's strong, but not unbeatable.
Chein-Pao:
It's an Ice/Dark type that relies on its speed and Atk to fuck shit up, but thats fine and dandy because Iron Valiant can booster outspeed, while Kingambit our lord and savior regularly runs Low Kick, as well as Iron Head. Two top mons that should be on a good chunk of teams.
yeah i get it, ha ha hee hee, this is a prime location for memeing and shitposting, but did you have to put jokes in the middle of an ostensibly serious post? they aren't even funny. speaking of, look at the post number haha nice well shit, someone deleted a post. i was so happy about sniping post 6969 again
Espathra:
It has to burn a Tera if it wants to stay in. Otherwise, its Psychic type fodder that has 4MSS if it wants anything but stored power. It could run tera fairy, but then it opens itself to Steel and Poison attacks, which arent uncommon.
espathra doesn't "have to burn a tera", that's only a phrase you use if you're planning to ever use another mon in the match. once espathra comes in, it doesn't go back out, it just clicks the funny button and wins
Iron Bundle:
Unless Raging Bolt Thunderclap OHKOS, this minmaxed fuckboy should also stay banned. I would say Electro Shot, but muh broken beats broken, which should only apply if we even agree on whats broken. I will not say FM can keep something OU, because that's patently ridiculous.
that wouldn't make much of a difference. the only thing that would do is force it to run an electric-resistant tera, and grass or dragon would likely be in use already thanks to rillaboom
Palafin:
It requires two total turns to be its best. Rillaboom, Raging Bolt, and other water types are good checks that can make it swap back out, and help you regain momentum. Unless that fucker packs Ice Punch hundo %, Zapdos too.
ice punch bodies rilla, bolt, and zapdos. other water-types just die to neutral hits because of how fucking strong palafin is. maybe it doesn't have room to beat the entire meta with just one set anymore, but it's still bullshit strong, especially in rain—which, as you've said multiple times in this very quote, is quite the popular archetype right now
Regieleki:
You are burning your tera with regieleki. Using it without it being net bullshit besides being the third electric type in OU requires burning your tera to Tera Ice. Being a pure ice type comes with all the net negatives of being fucking ice type. If you arent using your tera on this mon, regieleki will be walled by any ground type or electric resist.
This fucker wouldn't be banned if tera wasnt a thing, like its UU/RU self was back in gen 8. Instead, we get base 100 boltbeam coverage, that would die to a body press. Its frail, and very fast, and was contentious even when it was banned.
eleki wouldn't be banned if tera wasn't a thing, yes. but guess what? tera is a thing, and it's not gonna stop being a thing anytime soon based on how absolutely bodied the pro-ban side got in the recent survey. and it wasn't "contentious even when it was banned", it was so overwhelmingly agreed upon that the mon was broken that the council had to do an emergency quickban. and again, it's not "burning your tera" when it's op after teraing. you didn't see anyone making arguments (at least, not serious ones) that terapagos required you to "burn tera" even though it was objectively the only thing you should have ever clicked the tera button on when it was legal
Sneasler:
Im tired as fuck rn man, dire claw is cheese hell.
sneasler's best sets didn't even run dire claw, it was broken outside of that altogether. although with the removal of sleep clause mod, it probably would run it way more often because of the ludicrous reward potential, which would make it both broken and uncompetitive
Terapagos:
Jesus fuck just ban its Stellar Form like we did Zygarde Complete. It's a slow, tanky normal type otherwise with defenses slightly better than mew and an attack stat of 105. It can't even Tera normally, so its just mediocre otherwise. Gen 2 Tauros ass mon, but since we apparently can't separate Stellar from its normal form, even though we could separate complete zygarde from zygarde, its banned. With Stellar its ban, without it aint.
although i agree that stellar should be banned exclusively, that's not how it works and there are specific programming reasons for why it can't work. the way in-battle form changes are recorded is kinda messy—since the algorithm apparently can't actually record the form changes, it just counts the in-builder things that make the form change happen, so every charizard holding a charizardite y counts as "mega charizard y" even if the charizard doesn't actually mega evolve. other in-battle changes are treated similarly—every rayquaza with dragon ascent is counted as mega rayquaza, every zygarde with power construct is counted as zygarde-complete, and so on. but of course there's no in-builder thing that makes terapagos able to turn into stellar, it just does it. this effectively means we have to tier them together because all our current methods of recording usage statistics treat them as the same mon
 
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espathra doesn't "have to burn a tera", that's only a phrase you use if you're planning to ever use another mon in the match. once espathra comes in, it doesn't go back out, it just clicks the funny button and wins
You massively overrate Espathra's abilities with Tera no longer legal. It has mediocre bulk with a terrible defensive typing and won't be setting up on much of anything, not to mention that it doesn't get a Speed Boost until the first full turn it stays on the field. An uninvested Dazzing Gleam is weak even with a boost, and Tera Fairy wasn't even Espathra's bet set. That was Tera Fighting since it could beat Steel-type checks while having a good match-up into Dark-type Pokemon. The ability to snipe checks with Tera Blast along with a better defensive typing from using Terastal are what broke Espathra. Espathra has no business being Uber in a Teraless environment.
 
You massively overrate Espathra's abilities with Tera no longer legal. It has mediocre bulk with a terrible defensive typing and won't be setting up on much of anything, not to mention that it doesn't get a Speed Boost until the first turn it stays on the field. An uninvested Dazzing Gleam is weak even with a boost, and Tera Fairy wasn't even Espathra's bet set. That was Tera Fighting since it could beat Steel-type checks while having a good match-up into Dark-type Pokemon. The ability to snipe checks with Tera Blast along with a better defensive typing from using Terastal are what broke Espathra. Espathra has no business being Uber in a Teraless environment.
While I do disagree with the idea that esparthra would be okay in OU without tera, there main point was that esparthra doesn't have to burn tera because tearing it is 100% amazing. You don't have to tera anything else when tera esparthra is so amazing. It wasn't that esparthra without tera is amazing, it was that using tera on esparthra isn't 'burning it'.
 
Before you continue, we are talking about Oppurtunist being run on Espartha, correct? I will say the obvious, Espartha very easily punishes set-up mons. If you want to be a jack about is and say 105 Speed is too much on top of those conditions, be my guest but to say tera is what makes Espartha broken and arguing it the way you are proposing it looks not genuine. If we dig deeper, ban set up moves. Dragapult switching in and getting a DD up versus Roaring Moon is not the same, I agree but it is what is making roaring Moon broken. I think if you're for a tera ban this is not the way to do it. Ban Kingambit at that point. I do not know why you're being silly about setup moves making mid mons jank. But to do also, include what a counter is again, a counter comes in, checks spped tier, after taking the hit, and snowballs. That's where your MU game develops and is making the whole tier unplayable, enocuraging Glowking, etc like mentioned with DaddyBuzzwole.
Speed boost obviously. While opportunist is cool, speed boost is 100% better.
I don't want to even approach the rest of the post because it makes no sense. Banning set up moves is silly and the whole posting what a counter thing is unnecessary.
 
You massively overrate Espathra's abilities with Tera no longer legal.
possibly, but that wasn't the discussion. the discussion was what ubers aren't worthy of being banned now, which is none of them. my personal opinion is that espathra would still not be ok with tera gone because i think it would still be, at minimum, annoying as shit and likely unhealthy/cheese. i do admit that i could be wrong and i would be open to unbanning it in the increasingly unlikely event of a tera ban or the almost-likely-but-probably-not event of a tera blast ban, but i think it'd go right back up
 
the thing with "power creep doesn't mean more bans need to happen" is that it implies the new, more powerful mons necessarily counteract each other to become the new normal, and in this gen, they don't. not one banned mon was banned as the direct result of a previous ban making it too much for the tier.

unban everything and i am sure not only the community would ask for their bans again, it would happen mostly in the speed they already got banned - flutter mane and regieleki almost immediately, and so on.
 
What do you mean by Archaludon bans? I do not see that in the rules. I heard this site was good for competitive discussion. My teams have lately had trouble with raging bolt and Gholdengo. I've read a bit of this thread, and seen a lot of discussion on Stealth Rock and I have not really seen it much when playing. I also don't know why many teams run Boots when hazards are not used competititively. I also see you all discussing a tera ban, when I don't think TPC would ban their new mechanic from competitive play. Have a good day, y'all.
 
What do you mean by Archaludon bans? I do not see that in the rules. I heard this site was good for competitive discussion. My teams have lately had trouble with raging bolt and Gholdengo. I've read a bit of this thread, and seen a lot of discussion on Stealth Rock and I have not really seen it much when playing. I also don't know why many teams run Boots when hazards are not used competititively. I also see you all discussing a tera ban, when I don't think TPC would ban their new mechanic from competitive play. Have a good day, y'all.
thus a forum for a singles 6v6 format and not vgc doubles, hence your confusion
 
What do you mean by Archaludon bans? I do not see that in the rules. I heard this site was good for competitive discussion. My teams have lately had trouble with raging bolt and Gholdengo. I've read a bit of this thread, and seen a lot of discussion on Stealth Rock and I have not really seen it much when playing. I also don't know why many teams run Boots when hazards are not used competititively. I also see you all discussing a tera ban, when I don't think TPC would ban their new mechanic from competitive play. Have a good day, y'all.
Bruh, not the day one account. I know you most likely are new here, if you want to talk about Doubles OU, then this is the thread. https://www.smogon.com/forums/forums/doubles-ou.729/
If you want to talk about VGC, here is the thread.
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threa...tagame-discussion.3732909/page-6#post-9983490
We are talking about singles, which have all of these things that you listed. We are also struggling with raging bolt, so hey, you have something in common with us.
 
thus a forum for a singles 6v6 format and not vgc doubles, hence your confusion
But 6v6 singles isn't an official format, 3v3 singles and 4v4 doubles are.
Bruh, not the day one account. I know you most likely are new here, if you want to talk about Doubles OU, then this is the thread. https://www.smogon.com/forums/forums/doubles-ou.729/
If you want to talk about VGC, here is the thread.
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threa...tagame-discussion.3732909/page-6#post-9983490
We are talking about singles, which have all of these things that you listed. We are also struggling with raging bolt, so hey, you have something in common with us.
VGC is official doubles, so I don't know what you mean by Doubles OU.
 
But 6v6 singles isn't an official format, 3v3 singles and 4v4 doubles are.

VGC is official doubles, so I don't know what you mean by Doubles OU.
This is by smogon rules, which uses 6v6 singles. There is also Doubles OU which is basically VGC, but with bans. The second link is for talk on VGC, which you can play on showdown as well.
6v6 singles isn't offical, that is true, but we use an emulator called showdown in which 6v6 singles is the main format.

how do people expect the community to agree to do anything with espathra when we can't even agree on how to spell it
I checked and you are correct. Idk why I thought there was an extra r in there, but the more you know. Like I can easily spell all the ultra beasts names (nihilego, Buzzwole, Pheromosa, Xurkitree, Kartana, Celesteela, Guzzlord, Stakataka, Blacephalon, poipole, Naganadel), but can't even spell an ostrich's name. :psycry:
 
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What do you mean by Archaludon bans? I do not see that in the rules. I heard this site was good for competitive discussion. My teams have lately had trouble with raging bolt and Gholdengo. I've read a bit of this thread, and seen a lot of discussion on Stealth Rock and I have not really seen it much when playing. I also don't know why many teams run Boots when hazards are not used competititively. I also see you all discussing a tera ban, when I don't think TPC would ban their new mechanic from competitive play. Have a good day, y'all.
i can understand why you might be confused as to the nature of smogon, since you created your account mere hours ago. there's no shame in being new or not understanding something you were just introduced to, everyone was new at some point! so let me clear things up for you:

smogon is entirely created and run by pokemon fans like you and me. we've got no affiliation with tpci, game freak, creatures inc, or any of the companies that hold the actual rights to the franchise whatsoever. all of smogon's tiers are unofficial, fan-created formats controlled by the players rather than game freak and friends. this lets us create more diverse, engaging, and balanced formats than the official ones allow for by doing things like banning overpowered pokemon and uncompetitive strategies. but that's not all—we've got metas where we change the rules of the game, mod in things that don't exist, and even create our own pokemon, flavor and all! ou, smogon's flagship format, is a 6v6 singles format, so that's what all of the discussion on this part of the forum is based around. but don't worry—we do have an entire forum and chatroom on pokemon showdown for the discussion of vgc, so you can consult them about your problems with raging bolt and gholdengo. if you're interested in competitive 6v6 singles, though, feel free to stay here and chill and consult some people who are better than i am on how to get started. but wherever you choose to go, i'm happy to welcome you to smogon. good luck and have fun!

(and if you do wind up finding a consistent answer to raging bolt, please tell us, we're dying to know over here)
 
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i can understand why you might be confused as to the nature of smogon, since you created your account mere hours ago. there's no shame in being new or not understanding something you were just introduced to, everyone was new at some point! so let me clear things up for you:

smogon is entirely created and run by pokemon fans like you and me. we've got no affiliation with tpci, game freak, creatures inc, or any of the companies that hold the actual rights to the franchise whatsoever. all of smogon's tiers are unofficial, fan-created formats controlled by the players rather than game freak and friends. this lets us create more diverse, engaging, and balanced formats than the official ones allow for by doing things like banning overpowered pokemon and uncompetitive strategies. but that's not all—we've got metas where we change the rules of the game, mod in things that don't exist, and even create our own pokemon, flavor and all! ou, smogon's flagship format, is a 6v6 singles format, so that's what all of the discussion on this part of the forum is based around. but don't worry—we do have an entire forum and chatroom on pokemon showdown for the discussion of vgc, so you can consult them about your problems with raging bolt and gholdengo. if you're interested in competitive 6v6 singles, though, feel free to stay here and chill and consult some people who are better than i am on how to get started. but wherever you choose to go, i'm happy to welcome you to smogon. good luck and have fun!

(and if you do wind up finding a consistent answer to raging bolt, please tell us, we're dying to know over here)
Wouldn't any ground type work?
 
Duraludon @ Eviolite
Ability: Light Metal
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 80 HP / 252 SpA / 176 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Draco Meteor
- Flash Cannon
- Thunder Wave

In my effort to cope with today's ... horrible news, I've been testing this set out on a new alt I made. Haven't gotten too high yet, but I must say, barring the poor Ghold MU, this actually isn't half bad! Dura is a really bulky with Eviolite, letting it trade decently well vs a number of offensive threats like Valiant + spread paralysis effectively vs bulky targets like Slowking-G and Mola. This is quite useful for its partner, Manaphy, which can take advantage of these free turns to setup Tail Glow + Sub and sweep easily. Most ground-types do not want to switch into Dura because of the threat of Draco. I've found it to be a nice lure for Volcarona since ppl love to use Dura as an entry point to setup QD, only for it to get T-Waved lol. Like most high def mons, this guy in G-Terrain can somewhat check Roaring Moon (though Knock is REALLY annoying) and a few other annoying mons like Maushold (not nearly as well as Arch) some Dragonite (again not as well as Arch) etc. Woger is probably going to drop Superpower in the coming days, so this should match up fine vs that as well.

Overall, not a perfect replacement for Arch, but it is surprisingly not that awful, which is more than what I was expecting.
 

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