Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4 [Volcarona Suspect]

[YubelVT]

I forgot there was a suspect going on meaning ladder is just unusable for people like me. Can't wait for it to be over so every game isn't against screens HO player #717 who just made a fifth alt for the suspect

Kingambit is so cool I love having to play around the kingambit in the back and whatever's out front which is even more fun when combined with Glowking. It's so fucking fun and competitive to have to worry about losing because I had the audacity to be winning

 

[CobsonYaoi]

Do I have a chance of getting the reqs I need when I currently have 11 wins and 4 losses? Also Specs Vacuum Wave Keldeo is probably the best way to deal with Kingambit.

Just came across offensive Blissey I think I'm going insane.

 

[JunkoAJ]

Do I have a chance of getting achieving the reqs I need when I currently have 11 wins and 4 losses? Also Specs Vacuum Wave Keldeo is probably the best way to deal with Kingambit.

Just came across offensive Blissey I think I'm going insane.

If you can win about 13 games in a row without losing then you'll be fine!

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

I forgot there was a suspect going on meaning ladder is just unusable for people like me. Can't wait for it to be over so every game isn't against screens HO player #717 who just made a fifth alt for the suspect

Kingambit is so cool I love having to play around the kingambit in the back and whatever's out front which is even more fun when combined with Glowking. It's so fucking fun and competitive to have to worry about losing because I had the audacity to be winning

suspect laddering is actually my favorite time because i get the oppportunity to dismantle established, decorated players with the stupidest shit ever without having to grind to the 1900s or continually win tour matches. you haven't lived until you've blown someone up with an atales + tork + peli triple weather team and then realized 20 minutes later that it was a defending spl champion

 

[YubelVT]

suspect laddering is actually my favorite time because i get the oppportunity to dismantle established, decorated players with the stupidest shit ever without having to grind to the 1900s or continually win tour matches. you haven't lived until you've blown someone up with an atales + tork + peli triple weather team and then realized 20 minutes later that it was a defending spl champion

I have skill issues

 

[HallowedHarlequin]

Cohesion. There is probably a policy review thread on that, it's called transitivy of bans. It's not exclusive to OU though, whatever is banned on a tier, is banned on all tiers below, for example RU banned Light Clay this gen so it's also banned from NU and PU.

I saw somewhere that one of the reasons for this is that the tiers are continually intermingling due to the usage-based system, and that system becomes distorted if rules are inconsistently applied across tiers. In this case, It wouldn't really make sense for powerful sleep abusers to drop because of low usage after the sleep ban, then suddenly have them get their sleep moves back in lower tiers when that was a big part of why they were OU in the first place.

Unsure if this falls into RMT or not, or even simple question simple answers but what would you guys think is the best spike setter for a team with rillaboom on it?considering gliscor with high horsepower instead of EQ but not sure if it's worth it with the -5 in both accuracy and power, also unsure if meowscarada is any better considering the double grass types, although maybe if kyurem gets banned i'll consider

Better players can correct me if this is bad advice, but I'd say:
- HH Gliscor should be fine. It's a mon that doesn't mind taking the extra turn to do something quite as much as other mons do thanks to its healing, and most of the time you'll still be hitting/getting the KOs you would with non-terrain EQ.
- Meowscarada would also be fine! Doubling up on a type isn't necessarily a disadvantage, especially for offensive teams. It's often an intentional strategy for one pokemon to weaken the opponent's resists of that type, and the other to finish them off. In your case, you could try having Meowscarada weaken/Knock Off opposing grass resists early on so Rillaboom can go for an endgame Grassy Glide sweep. It can also run Protean so it might not even be functioning as a grass type.
- Otherwise, I think Samurott-H, Ting-Lu, and Skarmory are the most popular. Try stuff and see what fits!

 

[Mario With Lasers]

suspect laddering is actually my favorite time because i get the oppportunity to dismantle established, decorated players with the stupidest shit ever without having to grind to the 1900s or continually win tour matches. you haven't lived until you've blown someone up with an atales + tork + peli triple weather team and then realized 20 minutes later that it was a defending spl champion

Literally what does that team do, enable wallbreaker Castform?

 

[Elec-ant1234]

Literally what does that team do, enable wallbreaker Castform?

clearly it enables weather ball Lando-T, a pokemon commonly known for running special options.
also castform wishes it could do anything with it's statline, even with this the thing wouldn't be doing anything of value

 

[SpritePony]

I know the sleep discussion is over, but I just read through Finch's post and even though I know I shouldn't say shit, and I've seen people saying I should kms over my own bs, I thought I'd weigh in a little as a low ranked person/cart primary player.

I'm a tad surprised to see Sleep wholly banned as it was in Gen 5 -- but not for the same reasons. I fully understand council's decision and the community push back for it (Sleep and freeze are inherently uncompetitive, I wish we got Drowsy and Frostbite from PLA even though I do not like that game.) However, looking through it points to mainly two Pokemon; Darkrai and Valiant. Why is this relevant?
I've been around this metagame since day 1 of SV. I've lived through the terrors that were Bundle, Flutter, <><, cheems-poo, and the like. Valiant was always a contender for ban discussions. However, if you *ever* brought up Hypnosis sets back then, people would laugh at you, call you bad, and label the set as "bad" or "a meme". Yet, when Darkrai reappears in DLC2, suddenly everyone loses their minds over it and Val. Val was always an exceptionally strong Pokemon, and it wasn't until Darkrai because it's shenanigans that people took Hypnosis sets seriously.

I would've preferred to see Val and Rai get the hammer over full on Sleep, but I'm fine with what council did. It puts me into an awkward spot of "If I see these Sleep moves used on me on cart, do I just let it slide like before, or stop playing as if they spammed sleep on all my mons?" (Seriously, there's too many people who do this on cart. It's super tilting.) I'll have to see in the coming days, but this was quite the interesting development for me.

Also lol Kyurem suspect. I haven't played with it yet this gen, so I'll have to give it a go before I comment on it. Kyurem is kind of a diet Bax, IMO, as unlike Bax, Rem can be burned. Buuut it also has special sets and snow buff and yadda yadda... Gotta find a way to build around it to my style.

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

Literally what does that team do, enable wallbreaker Castform?

you know how strong gouging fire is under sun? or archaludon under rain? imagine both of those on the same team, with aurora veil support. it has no right to work in any way, shape or form but somehow i keep almost getting reqs with it. you can also slot on wake or bolt over gouging because they can exploit the other two weathers a lot better, but i like being able to 6-0 stall on preview

(please note that this is not a serious team by any means, i made it as a joke and suspects happen to be the best time to test joke teams)

 

[Finchinator]

Also lol Kyurem suspect. I haven't played with it yet this gen, so I'll have to give it a go before I comment on it. Kyurem is kind of a diet Bax, IMO, as unlike Bax, Rem can be burned. Buuut it also has special sets and snow buff and yadda yadda... Gotta find a way to build around it to my style.

Special sets are far more common than physical ones on Kyurem

 

[YubelVT]

I know the sleep discussion is over, but I just read through Finch's post and even though I know I shouldn't say shit, and I've seen people saying I should kms over my own bs, I thought I'd weigh in a little as a low ranked person/cart primary player.

I'm a tad surprised to see Sleep wholly banned as it was in Gen 5 -- but not for the same reasons. I fully understand council's decision and the community push back for it (Sleep and freeze are inherently uncompetitive, I wish we got Drowsy and Frostbite from PLA even though I do not like that game.) However, looking through it points to mainly two Pokemon; Darkrai and Valiant. Why is this relevant?
I've been around this metagame since day 1 of SV. I've lived through the terrors that were Bundle, Flutter, <><, cheems-poo, and the like. Valiant was always a contender for ban discussions. However, if you *ever* brought up Hypnosis sets back then, people would laugh at you, call you bad, and label the set as "bad" or "a meme". Yet, when Darkrai reappears in DLC2, suddenly everyone loses their minds over it and Val. Val was always an exceptionally strong Pokemon, and it wasn't until Darkrai because it's shenanigans that people took Hypnosis sets seriously.

I would've preferred to see Val and Rai get the hammer over full on Sleep, but I'm fine with what council did. It puts me into an awkward spot of "If I see these Sleep moves used on me on cart, do I just let it slide like before, or stop playing as if they spammed sleep on all my mons?" (Seriously, there's too many people who do this on cart. It's super tilting.) I'll have to see in the coming days, but this was quite the interesting development for me.

Also lol Kyurem suspect. I haven't played with it yet this gen, so I'll have to give it a go before I comment on it. Kyurem is kind of a diet Bax, IMO, as unlike Bax, Rem can be burned. Buuut it also has special sets and snow buff and yadda yadda... Gotta find a way to build around it to my style.

I don't think hypnosis darkrai was particularly good, but what I think happened is that it started getting tournament and ladder results against unexpecting players who were prepping for normal sets and that was the straw that broke the camerupt's back on the sleep clause mod discussion.

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

Special sets are far more common than physical ones on Kyurem

paradoxically, this actually can in many cases make physical sets better than if they were common, because of how many people expect the special set and attempt to play around it accordingly. i've seen a lot of people switch in a special wall that gets deleted by icicle spear or scale shot. of course, the special set is still the better one performance-wise (in my opinion at least), but the physical one has very strong lure potential

 

[SpritePony]

Special sets are far more common than physical ones on Kyurem

Understood. I have to experiment with both. I would've thought that a DD Scale Shot set would've been popular.

I don't think hypnosis darkrai was particularly good, but what I think happened is that it started getting tournament and ladder results against unexpecting players who were prepping for normal sets and that was the straw that broke the camerupt's back on the sleep clause mod discussion.

This is also understood and fair. As someone who winds up running into a lot of sleep spam, I can understand people's frustration with the mechanic as a whole.

 

[Mario With Lasers]

you know how strong gouging fire is under sun? or archaludon under rain? imagine both of those on the same team, with aurora veil support. it has no right to work in any way, shape or form but somehow i keep almost getting reqs with it. you can also slot on wake or bolt over gouging because they can exploit the other two weathers a lot better, but i like being able to 6-0 stall on preview

(please note that this is not a serious team by any means, i made it as a joke and suspects happen to be the best time to test joke teams)

Smogon is a circus and we are God's goofiest clowns

 

[Cuddly]

Smogon is a circus and we are God's goofiest clowns

This post reminded me that Mr. Mime isn’t in the game and we can’t make a niche set with it or its Galar counterpart :’(
Oh well, we can still use Zamazenta.

 

[MaahirMomtaz12]

This post reminded me that Mr. Mime isn’t in the game and we can’t make a niche set with it or its Galar counterpart :’(
Oh well, we can still use Zamazenta.

My wishful thinking

Mr. Rime @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Ice Body
Tera Type: Ice
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
- Chilly Reception
- Rapid Spin
- Psyshock / Psychic
- Focus Blast

Chilly Reception fits perfectly for this mon since it's the Comedian Pokémon lol

 

[Cuddly]

My wishful thinking

Mr. Rime @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Ice Body
Tera Type: Ice
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
- Chilly Reception
- Rapid Spin
- Psyshock / Psychic
- Focus Blast

Chilly Reception fits perfectly for this mon since it's the Comedian Pokémon lol

I was actually thinking using Screen Cleaner and Mr. Mine-G instead.
Screen Cleaner would be really great if it were available on more Pokemon so that Screens HO is nerfed a bit.
Mr. Mime-G being used here because it has 100 Speed, so unlike Mr. Rime you would be outspeeding Great Tusk, Glimmora, Samurott-H, Gliscor, and also Raging Bolt, and Dragapult and Modest Deo-S at +1 from Rapid Spin.

 

[Wolf-X]

Yeah


At least change it to the OU Oligarchy smh my head

The OU Oligarchy doesnt have quite the same ring to it, and anyways Monarchys is just a form or oligarchy so im going with it. DOWN WITH HER HEADS!!

 

[Elec-ant1234]

The OU Oligarchy doesnt have quite the same ring to it, and anyways Monarchys is just a form or oligarchy so im going with it. DOWN WITH HER HEADS!!

why can't we just show our displeasure with authority like normal people

 

[MaahirMomtaz12]

I was actually thinking using Screen Cleaner and Mr. Mine-G instead.
Screen Cleaner would be really great if it were available on more Pokemon so that Screens HO is nerfed a bit.
Mr. Mime-G being used here because it has 100 Speed, so unlike Mr. Rime you would be outspeeding Great Tusk, Glimmora, Samurott-H, Gliscor, and also Raging Bolt, and Dragapult and Modest Deo-S at +1 from Rapid Spin.

That could work too but I was basing off Chilly Reception, which I presume only Mr. Rime would get due to its lore

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

The OU Oligarchy doesnt have quite the same ring to it, and anyways Monarchys is just a form or oligarchy so im going with it. DOWN WITH HER HEADS!!

"down with her heads"? what do you want them to do, play heads-up 7-up?

 

[Just A Shroom God]

The OU Oligarchy doesnt have quite the same ring to it, and anyways Monarchys is just a form or oligarchy so im going with it. DOWN WITH HER HEADS!!

Hey, you know what Pokemon is really good at attacking heads???
252+ Atk Choice Band Lokix Throat Chop vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def The OU Monarchy: 51924-61088 (472036.3 - 555345.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
ah, the good old pre-dlc1 days...

 

[Karxrida]

you know how strong gouging fire is under sun? or archaludon under rain? imagine both of those on the same team, with aurora veil support. it has no right to work in any way, shape or form but somehow i keep almost getting reqs with it. you can also slot on wake or bolt over gouging because they can exploit the other two weathers a lot better, but i like being able to 6-0 stall on preview

(please note that this is not a serious team by any means, i made it as a joke and suspects happen to be the best time to test joke teams)

Honestly the idea of multi weather teams sounds kind of legit? Especially with Walking Wake running around. I remember Sun + Sand combos were a thing for a bit in XY, though that was partially due to Mega Charizard Y loving Pursuit support from Tyranitar.

Doing triple weather is probably overkill and a bit too much to manage, but it's worth looking into Snow + Rain, Snow + Sun, or even Rain + Sun glued together by Walking Wake.

The OU Oligarchy doesnt have quite the same ring to it, and anyways Monarchys is just a form or oligarchy so im going with it. DOWN WITH HER HEADS!!

I can't believed you misgendered a bunch of the council smh.

 

[HallowedHarlequin]

"The OUligarchy" is right there for the taking I'm ashamed with you guys.

But honestly, there's been a giant discussion about what's wrong with sleep clause mod at least every generation that normally resulted in nothing happening, so actually doing something this time and just putting the axe to it is a pretty gigachad move. Score one for the OUligarchy.
---
Triple weather is hype. It's the type of thing that you know probably won't work at tippy top level, but it's one of the best experiences in Pokemon to see how far you can get with it. I remember one time, I think in gen 6, there was a quad weather doubles team that won a room tournament match with Scarf Weather Ball Roserade, which got a ko every turn by having the right teammate switch in to change the weather hit something super effectively at the start of each turn.
Triple anything is hype, really. Like that triple dinosaur team from a while back, or triple genies in doubles.