When Darkrai gets banned a month into Indigo Disk OU I want a real apology video with tears from everyone who voted a 5 on that thing.
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v3
- Thread starter TPP
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Even if I'm having a bad day, this made me not have it anymore so I don't have to have sleepless nights with the idea that Sneasler would ever get unbanned. Thank you council you've done an amazing deed.
Yeah Zamazenta-C is not coming down unless tera gets axed. Its bulky as all hell and it being able to tera makes it broken and makes up for no item slot.
ALSO UNANIMOUS DARKRAI UNBAN LETS GOOOOO
Very reasonable unban choices. Thankful that Bax and Sneasler are not touching the tier again. Will be curious about how Darkrai does - I'm frankly still skeptical, but it's possible that it goes the way of Blaziken and Aegislash last gen.
actually, are there even that many true suicide leads anymore? i can only think of a couple viable mons that fit the "hazards go up, i go down" archetype i associate with the term "suicide lead": glimmora, ribombee, and arguably hamurott (but not really in my opinion). i'm not entirely sure why suicide leads as a concept fell off so hard considering that keeping hazards up once they've been set up is easier this gen than it ever has been, but if i were to guess, i'd wager it has something to do with how many things got spikes with enough bulk to come in and set them, leading to setters with more longevity taking the place of suicide leads. also, stealth rock, which was the bread and butter of suicide leads because it only took one turn, seems to have kind of fallen by the wayside a bit, possibly also because of the increased prominence of spikes. and i'm thinking that court change might also have something to do with it. is this a thing anyone else has noticed, or is it just me?
Darkrai also wants Focus Blast, Psychic, Ice Beam, Sludge Bomb, Thunder, Dark Pulse and potentially Hypnosis, Trick or Nasty Plot depending on the set so there is a good bit of 4mss that could keep it in line.
100% agree. Best choice by far seems like most voters qualified or not, the council and me are all in the same page.
Darkrai in OU IS A REALITY, TTAR MAINS REJOICE!
The chance of Darkrai running FB is quite low and its a very mid move so TTar is gonna be one of the best counters by far as it can easily tank anything, specially AV Ttar.
Unless there are a lot of good offensive Waters incoming with this DLC I don't expect much to change for Gliscor, especially because part of its issue was that it pressures most standard removers and I have to assume Corv remains bad at Defog until we have a Suspect Verdict for Gholdengo.
Darkrai I expect to be encumbered enough by its move BP that it's worth a shot. It's kind of in the contrasting position to something like Dragapult or Hisuian Samurott, where their offensive stat is unassuming but the BP behind their moves (Sharpness boosted in the latter case) more than props up their overall output. Might still be dumb but I unironically think it's more likely to be unproblematic than most of our considered-redrops were.
Volc it's been so long since we had it to play with through most of Home and the Teal Mask so hard to say if the Meta shifts make it any more palatable, but I WILL go on record that Kingambit is a more decisive Tera Abuser than I ever found the moth to be (even if that says more about Kingambit). Roaring Moon I can see the case with its Knock Off bolstered sets but honestly we were scrambling to make DLC1 playable so I don't blame people for wanting that can kicked down the road.
Darkrai I expect to be encumbered enough by its move BP that it's worth a shot. It's kind of in the contrasting position to something like Dragapult or Hisuian Samurott, where their offensive stat is unassuming but the BP behind their moves (Sharpness boosted in the latter case) more than props up their overall output. Might still be dumb but I unironically think it's more likely to be unproblematic than most of our considered-redrops were.
Volc it's been so long since we had it to play with through most of Home and the Teal Mask so hard to say if the Meta shifts make it any more palatable, but I WILL go on record that Kingambit is a more decisive Tera Abuser than I ever found the moth to be (even if that says more about Kingambit). Roaring Moon I can see the case with its Knock Off bolstered sets but honestly we were scrambling to make DLC1 playable so I don't blame people for wanting that can kicked down the road.
Glisc I think manages to stay if we find we get good spinners like Excadrill or Ferrothorn or increased Defog distribution, but probably gets axed otherwise. That said, I also don't see him being the most pressing matter at the start.
Darkrai is the one I see most liable to being banned but also is one I do like that we're trying out. If we've tested Genesect in every game since Black and White, why not y'know? Literally a non point but it'll be nice having a special sweeper that isn't stored power-ing or relying on RNG procs.
Darkrai is the one I see most liable to being banned but also is one I do like that we're trying out. If we've tested Genesect in every game since Black and White, why not y'know? Literally a non point but it'll be nice having a special sweeper that isn't stored power-ing or relying on RNG procs.
Volc and Kingambit are tera abusers in the most literal sense, they won't be instabanned but if a tera suspect ends in a ban they would likely stick around, which is probably part of the reason Volc dropped.
Also Gliscor could be fine if we get a defog tm and immediately suspect Ghold prior to a tera suspect. If we get a rapid spin and defog tm that would help a ton, and it could also stick around if Weavile is as good as it was last gen with triple axel as Weavile could really impede Gliscor making progress with spikes and give it less chances to come in.
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Thank god we didn’t have DLC1 style unbanning where Sneasler is allowed and Chien-Pao gets unbanned a second time.
Also another historical drop for Smogon where Darkrai is finally legal.
I voted OU on Volcarona, Darkrai, Gliscor, and Roaring Moon.
Volcarona was a borderline case back when it was banned, and I was very strongly in favour of its ban, but now we're almost two full metas away from Volc's ban so I think it's a sensible idea to revisit Volcarona for our "final" metagame. I'm still a bit wary of it just becoming cheese that is impossible to reliably play against, but for me its soft-checking potential for a few major threats and the controversy around the initial ban nudge me towards letting this have another shot.
I understand that people are hesitant to accept another offensive threat into a meta that has needed a lot of bans so far, but I find it hard to use this as a justification for not starting Darkrai in OU, when our preliminary evidence is the OUPL suspect slot where it was generally agreed to be mediocre by the people playing it. The mon does have a lot of options, so maybe it will take some time to find a broken concept with it, but right now I think that if the meta finds itself overrun with offensive threats and Darkrai stays at a similar level to what we're expecting, then the case is probably that other mons are more important to look at. It definitely doesnt have 0 value in the meta either, we've been generally lacking breakers and mons that are faster than Ogerpon, and we're pretty short on offensive Shadow Ball resists that dont immediately fold to Pult (except for Gambit). Personally I will be testing this on Gterrain and Webs, since those are the most likely styles to boost its breaking and sweeping potential over the edge imo.
Imo this never should have been banned in the first place, and I broadly agree with Vert's post earlier in the thread about the Gliscor Roaring Moon metagame being better than the final state of DLC 1. It was pretty hard-locked to a specific style (balance, with the occasional bulky offense) and compared to the elephant in the room (Gterrain) didnt put up great numbers in SCL. It also didnt invalidate nearly as much as people seem to think it does - Lando-T was still a great mon, with max defense 3atks + Rocks fitting on many Boots spam BOs and offenses better than Gliscor ever could, and speedier defensive Landos being able to run Taunt to get ahead in the hazard game so that your breakers can wreak havoc (as seen from my team vs Mind Gaming). Garchomp is basically the same level of niche with or without Gliscor, its best use is as a dual hazards setter that needs to be paired with a lot of Boots because it invites Spikes from Ting-Lu as well as Glisc. As for other mons like Zap, Gking and Ting-Lu, those mons clearly weren't dead during Glisc meta, just heavily reduced in usage, which is fine (i'd go one step further and say that's a good thing). I mentioned some of this in a PM with Nat a couple months ago, and I'll repost it here because it's still pretty relevant.
This is another topic I agree with Vert on. Process-wise, the Moon suspect largely spawned from a highly disliked meta that needed to be tiered in a very short timeframe. If I had the chance to go back to that time with the current opinions that I have, I would have pushed heavily for a Sneasler suspect first, because in hindsight allowing a mon that easily gets 600+ speed with plenty of bulk investment to spare, while also having 394 Attack and two 120 BP stabs, + great options to round out its coverage is really dumb. That toolkit outstrips what Moon is capable of pretty clearly imo, and as Vert pointed out, Roaring Moon's winrate ticked up towards the end of its time in the meta when more and more people were spamming it on Gterrain with Sneasler. Given the (understandably) rushed process and the current set of unknowns about how power-crept the next DLC will be, I think that Roaring Moon deserves another chance. This is also another Knock user, Sball resist and Ogerpon revenge killer that we banned btw.
I voted Ubers on Zamazenta-Crowned, Baxcalibur, Urshifu-Rapid-Strike, and Sneasler.
This is a cheesy ass mon and everyone I've talked to seems to really not want it back in the metagame. The added Def, Steel stab and natural Toxic/Gking immunity make the range of checks for this mon notably smaller than the range of checks for Idef Zama-H. It's beatable for sure, but not really in a way that I find friendly enough for a wide range of teams to handle it properly (run Kanto Birds/Unaware or lose to the right Tera typing/Crunch fishing lmao).
After this left the metagame a few months ago, I started to appreciate how naturally strong this fucker was. It had plenty of setup options, priority, well-distributed stats and easy perfect coverage to boot. On top of this, it could still perform basically any of its roles while running Boots sets, meaning that unlike a lot of other strong breakers you couldnt rely on hazards to limit it. Scale Shot and Veil factor into my argument much less, but having those options only makes it more of a pain to deal with. Bax for me is something that I dont see existing in a future balanced version of the metagame, and because of that I'd rather not waste time testing it out.
This mon's momentum-grabbing capabilities really tempted me to vote OU on this thing, as I loved using it in Gen 8. However, as someone who used Shifu a lot in Gen 8 I can say that by far its main flaw in the gen was being limited by the Regen Waters (and thus needing auxiliary breakers to U-turn into). Gen 9 addresses this flaw in Urshifu's game by making all the Regen Water resists lame and forcing them to have low usage (Toxapex/Amoonguss/Slowbro together dont even crack 10 percent usage in SCL, while reg Slowking also has low usage and isnt really bulky enough to take U-turns from Shifu). The crazy part about this is, I've only talked about the pivot set so far - Urshifu got two really useful buffs to take advantage of its natural bulk and great typing that forces out staple typings like Ground and Steel. The first is its collection of Tera SD sets, which allow it to utilise any number of combinations that usually allow it to muscle directly through a defensive mon at worst and straight up win a game at best. The second buff is Punching Glove, which might seem insignificant at first, but I cant tell you enough how much Urshifu would have appreciated that buff in Gen 8 to push through mons like Clef, while generally just increasing its odds of getting past defensive checks. Between its access to fantastic entry points to do its thing, and the lack of a solid catalogue of options that prevent Shifu from doing its thing once it is on the field, I think Urshifu-Rapid-Strike is another case of a mon that's simply too good to fit into a balanced version of OU.
I talked about this mon's perks in the Roaring Moon section, we're probably never gonna get anything that makes this mon okay unless Grassy Terrain goes back to the levels it was at before Rilla got Glide (and there's no serious reason to believe that it'll get much worse). Stupid, stupid mon I can't stress it enough - I barely even ran Dire Claw on it because the dual 120 BP STABs were just so powerful, and it could tailor its set in all types of different ways to take advantage of Tera. Sneasler could use Tera Dark to continue resisting Sucker while breaking through Fighting resists, Tera Fight to break through Dondozo and secure late-game situations vs offense, Tera Ghost to become immune to Espeed (and even run Marshadow coverage + Substitute), Tera Flying to conveniently evade Tusk, Gliscor and Lando (again you could use this with Sub to really turn Gliscor into setup fodder). I really think 130 Atk is just too much for what is mostly just a better Hawlucha clone (think about how hard Lucha hits even off 92 Atk).
Hopefully the mons I've voted to start in OU dont come back to bite us in the ass too hard, but to be sure of everything we'll have to see how the DLC goes and how much new stuff is actually going to be introduced (wish we had more leaks tbh).
P.S. if we're not gonna ban Tera, please at least let us ban Tera Blast, that move only serves to make the meta more difficult to tier.
Volcarona was a borderline case back when it was banned, and I was very strongly in favour of its ban, but now we're almost two full metas away from Volc's ban so I think it's a sensible idea to revisit Volcarona for our "final" metagame. I'm still a bit wary of it just becoming cheese that is impossible to reliably play against, but for me its soft-checking potential for a few major threats and the controversy around the initial ban nudge me towards letting this have another shot. I understand that people are hesitant to accept another offensive threat into a meta that has needed a lot of bans so far, but I find it hard to use this as a justification for not starting Darkrai in OU, when our preliminary evidence is the OUPL suspect slot where it was generally agreed to be mediocre by the people playing it. The mon does have a lot of options, so maybe it will take some time to find a broken concept with it, but right now I think that if the meta finds itself overrun with offensive threats and Darkrai stays at a similar level to what we're expecting, then the case is probably that other mons are more important to look at. It definitely doesnt have 0 value in the meta either, we've been generally lacking breakers and mons that are faster than Ogerpon, and we're pretty short on offensive Shadow Ball resists that dont immediately fold to Pult (except for Gambit). Personally I will be testing this on Gterrain and Webs, since those are the most likely styles to boost its breaking and sweeping potential over the edge imo. Imo this never should have been banned in the first place, and I broadly agree with Vert's post earlier in the thread about the Gliscor Roaring Moon metagame being better than the final state of DLC 1. It was pretty hard-locked to a specific style (balance, with the occasional bulky offense) and compared to the elephant in the room (Gterrain) didnt put up great numbers in SCL. It also didnt invalidate nearly as much as people seem to think it does - Lando-T was still a great mon, with max defense 3atks + Rocks fitting on many Boots spam BOs and offenses better than Gliscor ever could, and speedier defensive Landos being able to run Taunt to get ahead in the hazard game so that your breakers can wreak havoc (as seen from my team vs Mind Gaming). Garchomp is basically the same level of niche with or without Gliscor, its best use is as a dual hazards setter that needs to be paired with a lot of Boots because it invites Spikes from Ting-Lu as well as Glisc. As for other mons like Zap, Gking and Ting-Lu, those mons clearly weren't dead during Glisc meta, just heavily reduced in usage, which is fine (i'd go one step further and say that's a good thing). I mentioned some of this in a PM with Nat a couple months ago, and I'll repost it here because it's still pretty relevant. This is another topic I agree with Vert on. Process-wise, the Moon suspect largely spawned from a highly disliked meta that needed to be tiered in a very short timeframe. If I had the chance to go back to that time with the current opinions that I have, I would have pushed heavily for a Sneasler suspect first, because in hindsight allowing a mon that easily gets 600+ speed with plenty of bulk investment to spare, while also having 394 Attack and two 120 BP stabs, + great options to round out its coverage is really dumb. That toolkit outstrips what Moon is capable of pretty clearly imo, and as Vert pointed out, Roaring Moon's winrate ticked up towards the end of its time in the meta when more and more people were spamming it on Gterrain with Sneasler. Given the (understandably) rushed process and the current set of unknowns about how power-crept the next DLC will be, I think that Roaring Moon deserves another chance. This is also another Knock user, Sball resist and Ogerpon revenge killer that we banned btw.I voted Ubers on Zamazenta-Crowned, Baxcalibur, Urshifu-Rapid-Strike, and Sneasler.
This is a cheesy ass mon and everyone I've talked to seems to really not want it back in the metagame. The added Def, Steel stab and natural Toxic/Gking immunity make the range of checks for this mon notably smaller than the range of checks for Idef Zama-H. It's beatable for sure, but not really in a way that I find friendly enough for a wide range of teams to handle it properly (run Kanto Birds/Unaware or lose to the right Tera typing/Crunch fishing lmao). After this left the metagame a few months ago, I started to appreciate how naturally strong this fucker was. It had plenty of setup options, priority, well-distributed stats and easy perfect coverage to boot. On top of this, it could still perform basically any of its roles while running Boots sets, meaning that unlike a lot of other strong breakers you couldnt rely on hazards to limit it. Scale Shot and Veil factor into my argument much less, but having those options only makes it more of a pain to deal with. Bax for me is something that I dont see existing in a future balanced version of the metagame, and because of that I'd rather not waste time testing it out. This mon's momentum-grabbing capabilities really tempted me to vote OU on this thing, as I loved using it in Gen 8. However, as someone who used Shifu a lot in Gen 8 I can say that by far its main flaw in the gen was being limited by the Regen Waters (and thus needing auxiliary breakers to U-turn into). Gen 9 addresses this flaw in Urshifu's game by making all the Regen Water resists lame and forcing them to have low usage (Toxapex/Amoonguss/Slowbro together dont even crack 10 percent usage in SCL, while reg Slowking also has low usage and isnt really bulky enough to take U-turns from Shifu). The crazy part about this is, I've only talked about the pivot set so far - Urshifu got two really useful buffs to take advantage of its natural bulk and great typing that forces out staple typings like Ground and Steel. The first is its collection of Tera SD sets, which allow it to utilise any number of combinations that usually allow it to muscle directly through a defensive mon at worst and straight up win a game at best. The second buff is Punching Glove, which might seem insignificant at first, but I cant tell you enough how much Urshifu would have appreciated that buff in Gen 8 to push through mons like Clef, while generally just increasing its odds of getting past defensive checks. Between its access to fantastic entry points to do its thing, and the lack of a solid catalogue of options that prevent Shifu from doing its thing once it is on the field, I think Urshifu-Rapid-Strike is another case of a mon that's simply too good to fit into a balanced version of OU. I talked about this mon's perks in the Roaring Moon section, we're probably never gonna get anything that makes this mon okay unless Grassy Terrain goes back to the levels it was at before Rilla got Glide (and there's no serious reason to believe that it'll get much worse). Stupid, stupid mon I can't stress it enough - I barely even ran Dire Claw on it because the dual 120 BP STABs were just so powerful, and it could tailor its set in all types of different ways to take advantage of Tera. Sneasler could use Tera Dark to continue resisting Sucker while breaking through Fighting resists, Tera Fight to break through Dondozo and secure late-game situations vs offense, Tera Ghost to become immune to Espeed (and even run Marshadow coverage + Substitute), Tera Flying to conveniently evade Tusk, Gliscor and Lando (again you could use this with Sub to really turn Gliscor into setup fodder). I really think 130 Atk is just too much for what is mostly just a better Hawlucha clone (think about how hard Lucha hits even off 92 Atk).Hopefully the mons I've voted to start in OU dont come back to bite us in the ass too hard, but to be sure of everything we'll have to see how the DLC goes and how much new stuff is actually going to be introduced (wish we had more leaks tbh).
P.S. if we're not gonna ban Tera, please at least let us ban Tera Blast, that move only serves to make the meta more difficult to tier.
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I guess it just feels like there's better things you can do with a team slot? Ribombee's less common now that people have adapted to it and suicide leads really only exist for HO. HO is really really good, sure, but it just feels like they don't get you enough momentum to be worth the 5/6 game you're playing after.
This slate is all very reasonable and exciting - great work council! Here's what I'm excited about for each:
Balance and Stall are back on the menu boys! Players better than I were making things work on the latter with Clodsire and Amogus but now we are going to have some real fun with spikes toxic knock absorber knock user status absorber and blanket physical check all in one slot. Won't be a problem with Ice Beam Darkrai and Kyurem (if he lasts) in the tier
I am going to hit the ladder with the most disgusting Veil + Kyurem + Darkrai team very soon. If bro is not too strong (very very possible, seems only good not amazing) he'll be a cool tool for balance squads and might have a home on HO as well. Very shiny new toy! I definitely called this being unanimous btw
anything that switches in on Waterpon and Rillacheap is a very welcome addition! This thing keeps Gliscor in check, smacks Gholdengo, can EQ Gambit, and at least requires a Tera to do anything really potentially gamebreaking. Nice boon for sun too potentially making it relevant again
big nerf for Grassy Terrain (if we see Tapus this might not be necessary) amazing setup sweeper for balance, smokes Gholdendouche, balanced by how much hazards + knock off is in the tier (this was the case during DLC1 as well) like how is bro weak to both hazards. Also how tf does Darkrai kill this thing lol (we may someday see Tera Blast Flying or Ground Darkrai)
I am not sure if this thing is staying in the tier but a ridiculous ice dude to threaten roaring moon and Gliscor as well as Zapdos and Thundurus is attractive at the very least
Bonus:
so glad this is still banned, this is one of the dumbest Pokémon ever designed
Balance and Stall are back on the menu boys! Players better than I were making things work on the latter with Clodsire and Amogus but now we are going to have some real fun with spikes toxic knock absorber knock user status absorber and blanket physical check all in one slot. Won't be a problem with Ice Beam Darkrai and Kyurem (if he lasts) in the tier I am going to hit the ladder with the most disgusting Veil + Kyurem + Darkrai team very soon. If bro is not too strong (very very possible, seems only good not amazing) he'll be a cool tool for balance squads and might have a home on HO as well. Very shiny new toy! I definitely called this being unanimous btw anything that switches in on Waterpon and Rillacheap is a very welcome addition! This thing keeps Gliscor in check, smacks Gholdengo, can EQ Gambit, and at least requires a Tera to do anything really potentially gamebreaking. Nice boon for sun too potentially making it relevant again big nerf for Grassy Terrain (if we see Tapus this might not be necessary) amazing setup sweeper for balance, smokes Gholdendouche, balanced by how much hazards + knock off is in the tier (this was the case during DLC1 as well) like how is bro weak to both hazards. Also how tf does Darkrai kill this thing lol (we may someday see Tera Blast Flying or Ground Darkrai) I am not sure if this thing is staying in the tier but a ridiculous ice dude to threaten roaring moon and Gliscor as well as Zapdos and Thundurus is attractive at the very leastBonus:
so glad this is still banned, this is one of the dumbest Pokémon ever designedAbout that... HEAR ME OUT, What about using Altaria?
Altaria has defog, inmunitty to spikes doesnt care about gliscors toxic thanks to natural cure, has good bulk, Ice Beam is 2HKO and 3HKOs Gholdengo with flamethrower at 0 investment. It has plenty of options for utility and Gholdengo switching isnt really easy as it doesnt inmediatly threathen her without any NPCan also easily wall the likes of CB Rillaboom...
Seems pretty good to me actually.
New gang is here ALTARIA SHALL RISE TO OU
Also reminder
TTAR WILL RISE AGAIN FOR DAKRAI SHENANIGANS!!
Hazards?
I was already in favor of dropping watershifu (probably because I’m in favor of dropping things in general), but I never thought of it that way. Sure, watershifu has the freedom to mix up it’s item/tera, is slightly bulkier before tera, and its stabs can’t be walled by a single tera type, but it’s really hard to argue it’s so much better than ogerpon-w that it doesn’t even deserve to drop, especially when oger wasn’t even suspected (also watershifu was banned in the same controversial volc qb). Tbf tho I bet the community wouldve suspected ogerpon-w in the near future if it wasn't for DLC.
I will concede that in general urshifu-rs is slightly more powerful than ogerpon-w. However this is a bad argument for not testing urshifu-rs because: 1) This only applies to surging strikes vs. ivy cudgel (cuz 112.5 bp move vs. 100). Thus, power whip is more powerful than close combat and horn leech is more powerful than drain punch (although power whip has 80% accuracy and both are vulnerable to zapdos's static in ogerpon-w's case). 2) If the fact that surging strikes is more powerful than ivy cudgel is such a big deal then I wonder why more people aren't being vocal about running Adamant Ogerpon-W here if that slight increase in power takes something from not even suspect worthy to quick ban territory? My guess is because people first decided watershifu was busted and then decided to cite it's power over waterpon instead of the other way around.
(For the sake of the above discussion I am assuming watershifu has punching gloves, which I think is a fair assumption since that was its best set.)
I don't think something needs to "add something to the tier" to be tested from ubers. Nor do I think "broken checks broken" is a good idea either. However, if something is more than 50% likely broken, but adds something to the metagame by checking borderline broken mons, then I think that is extra incentive to test it during a DLC drop when we unban many questionable things (looking at you Genesect). For example, Urshifu-RS is another gambit check, discourages Ting-Lu/Zapdos spam, and goes through Gliscor protect/sub nonsense. Now if urshifu-rs is broken we ban it, and if that results in gambit/ting/zap/gliscor becoming broken we ban them too. Same logic applies to unbanning bax as well in my opinion.
Unfortunately, it seems like the general public is pretty against rapid strike getting tested, so I find it highly unlikely it will get the 7/10 council votes necessary. Especially with all of the circle jerking that's been going on in this forum since this generation started. Like a couple prominent people would propose X may be banworthy, then a ton of people (most of whom hadn't previously complained about X) would immediately agree and insult the intelligence and experience of anyone who thought otherwise.
Then you couple that with the fact that like every two weeks we'd suspect test the "best" pokemon before the meta had time to settle. I know people joke that smogon bans everything until Big Stall™ is the best playstyle, but to me the reality seems like we ban everything until Lando-T/Clef/Corv + Regen cores dominate with knock off, wisp, static, and flame body being the best ways to make progess.
My solutions here are putting people like Storm Zone and Vert on the council and accepting that it will take ~4 months post DLC to get a balanced meta instead of trying to get it done in like 1 month.
The wild Stall player saidA wild Stall player appeared!
The wild Stall player said 'and
are the best!'
The wild Stall player fled.
is the best!The wild Stall player fled.
is more accurate from my experience
Nah. I voted 5 because it no longer meets the power threshold to stay banned with no trial, not because I’m 100% convinced it’s gonna be balanced. Unlike everything else on that list, Darkrai was not suspected or voted on for quickban this gen; it was just quickbanned by default because it’s been quickbanned in every gen prior. That doesn’t sit well with me when I think even most people who want it banned would agree that there’s no way this thing is more broken than, say, Chien-Pao, who got TWO separate shots in the OU tier to prove itself. If Darkrai gets banned too, that’s just the way it is.
Very curious on the urshifu-RS and urshifu-SS opinions seeing as how offensive the meta is, the speed control options that are/will be available, and the general utility urshifu will add as a bulky physical hitter.
Id even put urshifu-RS way above roaring moon as worth revisiting. Post knock off Roaring moon has always been too much at “forcing” games. Not a big fan of Pokémon’s that just force KOs in matchups. Even if they can be revengeable, usually it’s at a cost if you’re relegated to priority/scarf, and it’s especially at a a cost if they still have a defensive Tera. Dragonite is similar, but less ridiculous.
Pokémon’s like urshifu and Ogerpon-w are partially balanced by their access to mediocre speed boosting options that usually have an opportunity cost in some matchups.
the only opportunity cost to booster energy is the bad matchup against offensive webs teams. Tack on great atk/speed and a high power reliable stab with a potential defensive Tera the sleeve… and it’s not fun.
people hated sneasler due to 1 turn netting it +2 atk, +2 speed and +1 def. Roaring moon gets +2 atk and +1 speed, with better defensive profile for setup opportunities to pull off the boosting turn better than sneasler can.
Id even put urshifu-RS way above roaring moon as worth revisiting. Post knock off Roaring moon has always been too much at “forcing” games. Not a big fan of Pokémon’s that just force KOs in matchups. Even if they can be revengeable, usually it’s at a cost if you’re relegated to priority/scarf, and it’s especially at a a cost if they still have a defensive Tera. Dragonite is similar, but less ridiculous.
Pokémon’s like urshifu and Ogerpon-w are partially balanced by their access to mediocre speed boosting options that usually have an opportunity cost in some matchups.
the only opportunity cost to booster energy is the bad matchup against offensive webs teams. Tack on great atk/speed and a high power reliable stab with a potential defensive Tera the sleeve… and it’s not fun.
people hated sneasler due to 1 turn netting it +2 atk, +2 speed and +1 def. Roaring moon gets +2 atk and +1 speed, with better defensive profile for setup opportunities to pull off the boosting turn better than sneasler can.
Ok so I know I made that whole being dense with old Ubers dropping to OU, but Darkrai is actually going to drop to OU for the DLC 2. This is my take on the Indigo Disk, and what I will do to change as a player.
SV OU. You better watch out. DLC 2 is where I bring my A game. I get #1 on the OU ladder, then I get #1 on the VGC ladder. No longer do I play to have fun. I play to win. This DLC is MY time in the spotlight. New moves, new pokemon, and we near the final dex for SV. Everything rides on this for the future of SV OU, and if it ends up being horrible. No more begging. No more bullshit Rate My Teams with me camping the 1400 elo range. No more being laughed at for my ideas. It's Game Time, Folks.
SV OU. You better watch out. DLC 2 is where I bring my A game. I get #1 on the OU ladder, then I get #1 on the VGC ladder. No longer do I play to have fun. I play to win. This DLC is MY time in the spotlight. New moves, new pokemon, and we near the final dex for SV. Everything rides on this for the future of SV OU, and if it ends up being horrible. No more begging. No more bullshit Rate My Teams with me camping the 1400 elo range. No more being laughed at for my ideas. It's Game Time, Folks.
- Status