Yeah my other thought is that Sneasler would be going up now that Moon is gone and it can easily fulfill the role of unburden sweeper especially with the rise of Grassy Terrain offense.
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v3
- Thread starter TPP
- Start date
- Status
Meta enjoyment -1
Meta Competitiveness - 1
Worst gen so far and by far...5 was more fun.
Quickbans - 1
Ya'll need to chill on this, easy way to get more backlash. Figure out a better process.
Gholdengo - 5
NEEDS TO GO - Good is Ghold (Meta-stranglehold abilty) + Typing + Bulk + Recover + Nasty Plot = too much.
Gliscor - 3
Might rate higher but would like to actually see this in a meta without Ghold first.
Broken record at this point. Testing and banning Gliscor before Ghold is silly. Hazards have been an issue since the beginning of the meta, but ya'll keep larping about whatever shiny new spiker starts causing problems. Ban Gliscor, and you just get a Ting Lu, H-Samm, Glimm resurgence along with all the offensive spikers....
Ban Ghold, mons can spin and defog far more freely. Seems like a no brainer...
Kingambit - 2
Overrated at this point, there is enough counterplay. Play better end games. Tera is the ONLY reason this is even considered problematic.
Manaphy - 2
Too slow to be consistent enough with what is annoying about it right now. Tera again would be the bigger issue with this guy.
Wellspring - 3
People seem to forget Dragons and Grass types exist. This mon can potentially be problematic but the counterplay for this isn't that developed. Would remain on radar for me.
Sneasler - 1
What council member keeps asking for this to be put on the survey? This thing got like a 2 on the last survey and is still here. Why???
Tera Blast - 0 if I could.
This has been shot down a lot in the past, is against policy as it's hardly even debatable that the move itself is broken. Nonsense. Shouldn't even be on the survey.
Meta Competitiveness - 1
Worst gen so far and by far...5 was more fun.
Quickbans - 1
Ya'll need to chill on this, easy way to get more backlash. Figure out a better process.
Gholdengo - 5NEEDS TO GO - Good is Ghold (Meta-stranglehold abilty) + Typing + Bulk + Recover + Nasty Plot = too much.
Gliscor - 3Might rate higher but would like to actually see this in a meta without Ghold first.
Broken record at this point. Testing and banning Gliscor before Ghold is silly. Hazards have been an issue since the beginning of the meta, but ya'll keep larping about whatever shiny new spiker starts causing problems. Ban Gliscor, and you just get a Ting Lu, H-Samm, Glimm resurgence along with all the offensive spikers....
Ban Ghold, mons can spin and defog far more freely. Seems like a no brainer...
Kingambit - 2Overrated at this point, there is enough counterplay. Play better end games. Tera is the ONLY reason this is even considered problematic.
Manaphy - 2Too slow to be consistent enough with what is annoying about it right now. Tera again would be the bigger issue with this guy.
Wellspring - 3People seem to forget Dragons and Grass types exist. This mon can potentially be problematic but the counterplay for this isn't that developed. Would remain on radar for me.
Sneasler - 1What council member keeps asking for this to be put on the survey? This thing got like a 2 on the last survey and is still here. Why???
Tera Blast - 0 if I could.
This has been shot down a lot in the past, is against policy as it's hardly even debatable that the move itself is broken. Nonsense. Shouldn't even be on the survey.
i wonder who it could be
What council member keeps asking for this to be put on the survey?
(i know it isn't just him, guys, c'mon. i just think it's funny that someone would think it's some sort of wacky zany mystery why sneasler keeps getting on the surveys)
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Tell me what the better process is. Genuinely curious what you might have in mind that's better than what we have. What makes quickbans such a bad idea?
It’s far from just me.
step 1: find the people at game freak in charge of balance
step 2: undergo a years-long process of plastic surgery, method acting, and linguistic conditioning to look, sound, and act exactly like them
step 3: call them and tell them there's some people having fun playing a balanced game of competitive pokemon. they'll instantly flock towards the area to see what's balanced and how to ruin that next gen
step 4: when they get there, trap them in a giant net of some kind
step 5: take their place at work and balance things directly
unban everything at once, every uber, caly-s, all dumped into OU “just so we can test it out for a bit”, nothing bad will happen to the tier I’m sure, and since Koraidon is also in there now Kingambit is totally fine for the tier. Totally unrelated to the 30 ubers raining down on the tier and making literally everything that isn’t Skeledirge obsolete. Totally.
See now I'm just imagining Face Off but with Finch and Satoshi Tajiri, Gamefreak's CEO. Finch has to try and fix as much of the game as he can while Tajiri runs OU in his absence and tries to get the council to unban Bloodmoon.
Realistically we are just doing the best we can with the hand we are dealt each generation. For example, I think our process now is more up-to-date, active, and effective than ever, but I also think chopy DLC releases and skewed power creep is not conducive to a promptly balanced metagame, so it may take some time and effort. Last generation I thought that mid-late generation we had a good stretch of a good metagame despite needing to do less, and that is not necessarily because of any amazing maneuvers on our end so much as the draw varying between the two situations.
At the end of the day, I am thankful for more generations regardless of whatever they may include and however it may impact us anyway.
At the end of the day, I am thankful for more generations regardless of whatever they may include and however it may impact us anyway.
me when i find the guy that fucking designed Mind's Eye
Anyway, survey-wise, I'm glad to see people have Gambit opinions still. The mon is a menace and I hope it gets reconsidered soon.
…which is why it would be better to be the one doing the dealing. clearly this means that my totally real [dubious - discuss] and 100% serious [citation needed] "operation ditto" proposal is exactly what's happening and the pieces are already moving into place
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We've got really just one viable splashable spinner, who already loses awfully to Gliscor irrespective of Gholdengo. Defog? You free up Corv at most and that's still not nearly enough to make it more reasonable for teams to handle Gliscor.
Doesn't matter that tera pushes it over the edge. Right now you focus on the mons. Also you might have forgotten that this mon has a reputation for beating teams which comes loaded with multiple checks. The issue isn't not having enough counterplay. And endgames? When those are revolving around sucker punch mind games, there's not that much you can do.
Overrated at this point, there is enough counterplay. Play better end games. Tera is the ONLY reason this is even considered problematic.
More? There was backlash one time to one mon. People have been pretty okay with the quickbans this gen.
the council was dealt a pretty impossible hand this generation and they've done a great job. perfect? probably not, no, and seeing how the last few pages have gone, there's no agreement as to what "perfect" is. i highly doubt 10 random people pulled from this thread could do better.
that said, if only mudkipnerd had just remembered ape was sash... the meta would be perfect right now...
(just to clarify this is not supposed to be at ausma's expense, shes the goat, mudkipnerd is just the goat of goats)
that said, if only mudkipnerd had just remembered ape was sash... the meta would be perfect right now...
(just to clarify this is not supposed to be at ausma's expense, shes the goat, mudkipnerd is just the goat of goats)
can this be next year's afd prank
pull 10 random people, give em 48 hours, see what happens... im down
I mean, I don’t blame the council for seeing Sneasler as a future ban candidate. If Gholdengo and/or Gliscor end up leaving, Sneasler is going to be extremely potent with barely anything left in the tier hard-checking or walling it besides Skeledirge, Quagsire and Dondozo. With Tera and Dire Claw RNG that becomes less of a problem for it. Surprisingly decent bulk for a fast wallbreaker, 130 Atk and 120 Spe, Unburden for sweeping, Poison Touch for annoying pivot shit, two 120 BP STABs.
I don’t see it as too much (at least rn), but I could see it becoming a problem once Gholdengo (arguably its longest-standing hard-check) goes away.
I don’t see it as too much (at least rn), but I could see it becoming a problem once Gholdengo (arguably its longest-standing hard-check) goes away.
yeah, i can agree that sneasler is a cheapass mon, but in terms of cheapness this entire gen is a fucking 5-cent store so i don't see it as a priority right now
erm statistically there’s a pretty good chance that at least one somewhat qualified player gets selected who can probably at least guide the other silly goobers in the right directionthe council was dealt a pretty impossible hand this generation and they've done a great job. perfect? probably not, no, and seeing how the last few pages have gone, there's no agreement as to what "perfect" is. i highly doubt 10 random people pulled from this thread could do better.
that said, if only mudkipnerd had just remembered ape was sash... the meta would be perfect right now...
(just to clarify this is not supposed to be at ausma's expense, shes the goat, mudkipnerd is just the goat of goats)
but yeah I would not trust like 90% of these people to balance the tier if their posts reflect even a little bit as to their true opinions
There are now two viable dragon types in OU and only one grass, and the fact that Dondozo has to run one of these two Tera types to reliably beat ogerpon-W, making it match up worse into Kingambit, is actually a problem! The reason further counterplay has not developed is because nothing else can really switch in
People seem to forget Dragons and Grass types exist. This mon can potentially be problematic but the counterplay for this isn't that developed. Would remain on radar for me.
Aren't you an enjoyer or the "doesn't contribute anything positive to the meta" argument? What does Sneasler contribute?
no? i've argued against that argument several times and i'm not sure how you got that wrong because you seem to follow my posts pretty closely (out of what i assume is either hatred or deeply buried romantic attraction). something doesn't have to contribute positively to the meta to justify it staying, it has to contribute negatively to justify it going. think of it this way: your appendix doesn't really do anything important, but no one's going out of their way to get an appendectomy unless there's a problem with it
i don't think sneasler is a negative enough presence right now to justify acting on it over gliscor, ghold, gambit, waterpon, or manaphy, all of which have more demonstrably bad effects on gameplay, builder, or both. going back to the appendix metaphor, action against sneasler right now would be like scheduling an appendectomy while you're undergoing total organ failure
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Let's not go down this train of thought. OU is not something we customize as we see fit, but something that naturally changes as we figure out/decide what is and isn't balanced. Something has to be provably bad for the tier to be removed, not provably good to be added to it. Unless those whispers of Kokoloko tiering returning somehow end up being true.
It nearly singlehandedly makes Rillaboom a #2 usage mon, that's something
I second this, Gliscor swaps in on tusk and just clicks spikes again, and If tusk stays in it risks toxic and then it really loses the hazard game. You can also just tech tera ghost on (insert mon) to spinblock in a pinch, even gliscor itself. Cinderace also does absolutely nothing to the Gliscor+Clefable+4 boots teams.
If the meta is so awful... Why should we do nothing about it being awful?
I don't remember the exact post, but the last tiering survey results showed only a single Pokemon above a 3.6, or something to that effect, with the next two trailing behind by about .3 points.
All this is to say that forum posts are extremes (though lets be honest, very few people are voting below threes and many throw 5s out easily) and that results which factor in everyone (and especially those of higher tiered players) will likely sit mostly in the 2.5-3.5 range. I'd be surprised if anything averages a 4 when Roaring Moon couldn't last time.
For one, most Baton Pass users weren’t broken either. Of course Tera Blast isn’t going to be broken on every Pokemon that learns it since practically everything learns it.
Second, your argument is a bit confusing.
You don’t want Tera Blast to be banned because of a few bad eggs, but want Tera to be banned as a whole over a few bad eggs?
I think Tera Blast ban would be a great compromise for both anti and pro tera camps. Regieleki and Volcarona definitely were banned for new coverage provided by Tera Blast. Espathra more than likely was pushed over the edge by Tera Blast, and in general would make Tera more tame. It’s kind of like if Hidden Power had effectively 120 BP and worked off your better offense just for the cost of a resource you have for rest of the match.
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