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To second what Gren said, Tusk also threatens the best anti-removal mon ever introduced (you can't tell me Ghold's 86 speed and Tusk's 87 wasn't as intentional as Genesect, Hydreigon, and Haxorus getting 99, 98, and 97), making it a rare spinner that also is difficult to spinblock.
Having to run a speed-boosting nature on anything 100 base speed and below just to outspeed Tusk is mildly annoying, honestly. Every time I experiment with calcs, there's always a point where I go, "I'd like to get some more juice out of this after maxing offense investment, but I can't use an offense-boosting nature because I need the speed boost to outspeed Tusk."
(Well, I guess below 87 you'll never outspeed Jolly Tusk, but you get my point.)
For another topic, has anyone tried out Galarian Moltres or Zapdos to any effect? Typically they conflict with their Kanto counterpart in OU, and G-Moltres probably has it harder with some big Fairies and Bax snapping it in half defensively, but Zap has an okay Speed tier and a STAB combo that is really hard to switch into in OU, leaving it some free slots to play with (U-Turn, Sub, Taunt, Trailblaze, maybe Tailwind for HO saccing, Agility Cleaner).
I mainly wonder because compared to last Generation, Moltres and Zapdos both being effective-but-similar Defensive presences might mean using one leaves room for the Galarian form of the other in an offensive role.
For another topic, has anyone tried out Galarian Moltres or Zapdos to any effect? Typically they conflict with their Kanto counterpart in OU, and G-Moltres probably has it harder with some big Fairies and Bax snapping it in half defensively, but Zap has an okay Speed tier and a STAB combo that is really hard to switch into in OU, leaving it some free slots to play with (U-Turn, Sub, Taunt, Trailblaze, maybe Tailwind for HO saccing, Agility Cleaner).
I mainly wonder because compared to last Generation, Moltres and Zapdos both being effective-but-similar Defensive presences might mean using one leaves room for the Galarian form of the other in an offensive role.
We interrupt your Kingambit and Tera outrage to bring you my biannual Lokix Appreciation and Advocation Post™!
@ Choice Band
Ability: Tinted Lens
Tera Type: Bug
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- First Impression
- U-turn
- Leech Life
- Throat Chop/Axe Kick
Lokix is seriously the only reason I actually play the tier anymore. It's just such a fun 'mon to use. I think most people look at this and are turned off by its 102* (thanks TheTraininator) base attack, not-great typing, and mediocre speed when its best priority is very conditional. I'm here to tell those people that you are WRONG. Choice Band and Tera really augment its power a ton, and Tinted Lens allows it to hit the vast majority of OU Pokemon at least neutrally. Seriously, look at these calcs:
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Bug Lokix First Impression vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Kingambit: 234-276 (68.6 - 80.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tinted Lens Tera Bug Lokix U-turn vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gholdengo: 110-130 (34.9 - 41.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Bug Lokix U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dondozo: 140-166 (27.7 - 32.9%) -- 89.6% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Bug Lokix First Impression vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Baxcalibur: 294-346 (79.2 - 93.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Tinted Lens Tera Bug Lokix First Impression vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragapult: 346-408 (109.1 - 128.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tinted Lens Tera Bug Lokix U-turn vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Great Tusk: 170-200 (45.8 - 53.9%) -- 46.9% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tinted Lens Tera Bug Lokix Throat Chop vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Enamorus: 244-288 (84.4 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tinted Lens Tera Bug Lokix Leech Life vs. 252 HP / 192+ Def Toxapex: 136-160 (44.7 - 52.6%) -- 80.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Tinted Lens Tera Bug Lokix First Impression vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Dragonite: 284-336 (87.9 - 104%) -- 25% chance to OHKO (with multiscale broken admittedly)
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Bug Lokix U-turn vs. 252 HP / 140+ Def Garganacl: 138-164 (34.1 - 40.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Tinted Lens Tera Bug Lokix U-turn vs. 252 HP / 104 Def Zapdos: 216-256 (56.2 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Even though it just barely misses the OHKO or 2HKO on many of these Pokemon, the fact is that it is either doing it with a priority move as revenge-killing which means the target will probably already have been damaged, or it is using U-turn so you can follow it up with another attacker. Its niche is not in sheer KOing power (though it certainly isn't weak), but in being able to hit a large portion of the tier for good damage with a priority move. U-turn augments this and allows it to grab moment from fleeing Pokemon afraid of its First Impression. Leech Life is good against bulkier walls and helps offset the Stealth Rock weakness. The last and least useful slot goes to Throat Chop, which is a good move to use against Pokemon that 4x resist bug since it still does a lot even without the tera boost. Axe Kick is also an option to better deal with Valiant (your arch nemesis), Heatran, Garganacl, and Kingambit, but you do hard lose against Gholdengo, Skeledirge, and Enamorus. The Tera Type should always be Bug for those nuclear first impressions. Overall, Lokix is just very fun and unique to use. I implore you to try it out!
We interrupt your Kingambit and Tera outrage to bring you my biannual Lokix Appreciation and Advocation Post™!
@ Choice Band
Ability: Tinted Lens
Tera Type: Bug
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- First Impression
- U-turn
- Leech Life
- Throat Chop/Axe Kick
Lokix is seriously the only reason I actually play the tier anymore. It's just such a fun 'mon to use. I think most people look at this and are turned off by its 92 base attack, not-great typing, and mediocre speed when its best priority is very conditional. I'm here to tell those people that you are WRONG. Choice Band and Tera really augment its power a ton, and Tinted Lens allows it to hit the vast majority of OU Pokemon at least neutrally. Seriously, look at these calcs:
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Bug Lokix First Impression vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Kingambit: 234-276 (68.6 - 80.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tinted Lens Tera Bug Lokix U-turn vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gholdengo: 110-130 (34.9 - 41.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Bug Lokix U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dondozo: 140-166 (27.7 - 32.9%) -- 89.6% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Bug Lokix First Impression vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Baxcalibur: 294-346 (79.2 - 93.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Tinted Lens Tera Bug Lokix First Impression vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragapult: 346-408 (109.1 - 128.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tinted Lens Tera Bug Lokix U-turn vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Great Tusk: 170-200 (45.8 - 53.9%) -- 46.9% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tinted Lens Tera Bug Lokix Throat Chop vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Enamorus: 244-288 (84.4 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tinted Lens Tera Bug Lokix Leech Life vs. 252 HP / 192+ Def Toxapex: 136-160 (44.7 - 52.6%) -- 80.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Tinted Lens Tera Bug Lokix First Impression vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Dragonite: 284-336 (87.9 - 104%) -- 25% chance to OHKO (with multiscale broken admittedly)
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Bug Lokix U-turn vs. 252 HP / 140+ Def Garganacl: 138-164 (34.1 - 40.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Tinted Lens Tera Bug Lokix U-turn vs. 252 HP / 104 Def Zapdos: 216-256 (56.2 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Even though it just barely misses the OHKO or 2HKO on many of these Pokemon, the fact is that it is either doing it with a priority move as revenge-killing which means the target will probably already have been damaged, or it is using U-turn so you can follow it up with another attacker. Its niche is not in sheer KOing power (though it certainly isn't weak), but in being able to hit a large portion of the tier for good damage with a priority move. U-turn augments this and allows it to grab moment from fleeing Pokemon afraid of its First Impression. Leech Life is good against bulkier walls and helps offset the Stealth Rock weakness. The last and least useful slot goes to Throat Chop, which is a good move to use against Pokemon that 4x resist bug since it still does a lot even without the tera boost. Axe Kick is also an option to better deal with Valiant (your arch nemesis), Heatran, Garganacl, and Kingambit, but you do hard lose against Gholdengo, Skeledirge, and Enamorus. The Tera Type should always be Bug for those nuclear first impressions. Overall, Lokix is just very fun and unique to use. I implore you to try it out!
Underrated mon for sure, I think you have to combine it with Cinderace or a hazard remover in order for it to get as much opportunities coming out to the field cleanly. Great post.
Underrated mon for sure, I think you have to combine it with Cinderace or a hazard remover in order for it to get as much opportunities coming out to the field cleanly. Great post.
That and a banded First Impression or Axe Kick asks a lot from your defensive core. It accentuates what sets it apart, but I'm not sure what kind of build would warrant its usage over Gambit.
That and a banded First Impression or Axe Kick asks a lot from your defensive core. It accentuates what sets it apart, but I'm not sure what kind of build would warrant its usage over Gambit.
I think most people look at this and are turned off by its 92 base attack, not-great typing, and mediocre speed when its best priority is very conditional.
Minor correction: Lokix’s speed is base 92, but its attack is actually 102. Figured I’d point it out so people don’t pull out the Spidops comparisons lol, (though yeah thanks to Tinted Lens, Lokix is actually a goddamn nuke).
We interrupt your Kingambit and Tera outrage to bring you my biannual Lokix Appreciation and Advocation Post™!
@ Choice Band
Ability: Tinted Lens
Tera Type: Bug
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- First Impression
- U-turn
- Leech Life
- Throat Chop/Axe Kick
Lokix is seriously the only reason I actually play the tier anymore. It's just such a fun 'mon to use. I think most people look at this and are turned off by its 92 base attack, not-great typing, and mediocre speed when its best priority is very conditional. I'm here to tell those people that you are WRONG. Choice Band and Tera really augment its power a ton, and Tinted Lens allows it to hit the vast majority of OU Pokemon at least neutrally. Seriously, look at these calcs:
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Bug Lokix First Impression vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Kingambit: 234-276 (68.6 - 80.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tinted Lens Tera Bug Lokix U-turn vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gholdengo: 110-130 (34.9 - 41.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Bug Lokix U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dondozo: 140-166 (27.7 - 32.9%) -- 89.6% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Bug Lokix First Impression vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Baxcalibur: 294-346 (79.2 - 93.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Tinted Lens Tera Bug Lokix First Impression vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragapult: 346-408 (109.1 - 128.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tinted Lens Tera Bug Lokix U-turn vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Great Tusk: 170-200 (45.8 - 53.9%) -- 46.9% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tinted Lens Tera Bug Lokix Throat Chop vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Enamorus: 244-288 (84.4 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tinted Lens Tera Bug Lokix Leech Life vs. 252 HP / 192+ Def Toxapex: 136-160 (44.7 - 52.6%) -- 80.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Tinted Lens Tera Bug Lokix First Impression vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Dragonite: 284-336 (87.9 - 104%) -- 25% chance to OHKO (with multiscale broken admittedly)
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Bug Lokix U-turn vs. 252 HP / 140+ Def Garganacl: 138-164 (34.1 - 40.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Tinted Lens Tera Bug Lokix U-turn vs. 252 HP / 104 Def Zapdos: 216-256 (56.2 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Even though it just barely misses the OHKO or 2HKO on many of these Pokemon, the fact is that it is either doing it with a priority move as revenge-killing which means the target will probably already have been damaged, or it is using U-turn so you can follow it up with another attacker. Its niche is not in sheer KOing power (though it certainly isn't weak), but in being able to hit a large portion of the tier for good damage with a priority move. U-turn augments this and allows it to grab moment from fleeing Pokemon afraid of its First Impression. Leech Life is good against bulkier walls and helps offset the Stealth Rock weakness. The last and least useful slot goes to Throat Chop, which is a good move to use against Pokemon that 4x resist bug since it still does a lot even without the tera boost. Axe Kick is also an option to better deal with Valiant (your arch nemesis), Heatran, Garganacl, and Kingambit, but you do hard lose against Gholdengo, Skeledirge, and Enamorus. The Tera Type should always be Bug for those nuclear first impressions. Overall, Lokix is just very fun and unique to use. I implore you to try it out!
This might sound a bit whack but i've actually been using a decent bit of lokix but not the band set
I've been running double dance lokix and with leech life it actually is so much fun
the set i use is this
Lokix @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Tinted Lens
Tera Type: Bug
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Agility
- Throat Chop
- Leech Life
Surprisingly it actually matches up well into dirge because throat chop stops it from using torch song
Leech life SD sweeping is super super fun especially because of tinted which lets it wall break surprisingly well as most defensive cores in OU do not really have a good answer to Lokix due to the weird combination of its stabs and tinted lens.
It has a decent enough speed stat to where after agility it outspeeds stuff like booster energy valiant so it has a surprisingly good speed tier as well
Its not a great mon but I've had a lot of fun using it.
Another Niche band user I've been experimenting with is Gallade
I'll just post a few calcs to show how funny this mon is
252+ Atk Choice Band Sharpness Gallade Sacred Sword vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Great Tusk: 210-247 (48.3 - 56.9%) -- 39.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Sharpness Gallade Psycho Cut vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gholdengo: 144-169 (45.7 - 53.6%) -- 41% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Sharpness Gallade Psycho Cut vs. 252 HP / 104 Def Zapdos: 280-330 (72.9 - 85.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Sharpness Gallade Psycho Cut vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Baxcalibur: 295-348 (79.5 - 93.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Sharpness Gallade Psycho Cut vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowking-Galar: 229-270 (58.1 - 68.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Sharpness Gallade Sacred Sword vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dondozo: 231-273 (45.8 - 54.1%) -- 50% chance to 2HKO
These are some non cherry picked neutral or resisted calcs to just give a general idea of Gallade's power level as a wallbreaker not even using its coverage, just its stabs and without tera being utilized.
The majority of the meta right now has defensive cores that don't really prepare for psychic damage, and the dark types in the meta aren't really prepared for the obscenely strong sacred sword that Gallade has.
the mons that CAN switch into its stabs are Cresselia, Gholdengo (only once) And Hatterene.
Thankfully for Gallade it gets night slash which allows it to threaten these mons with 2hkos.
Really underrated and fun breaker, also has access to shadow sneak so it functions as ass revenge killer.
Underrated mon for sure, I think you have to combine it with Cinderace or a hazard remover in order for it to get as much opportunities coming out to the field cleanly. Great post.
I made a different post that goes into a bit more detail quite a while back that includes team options and hazard removal. I just made this post to not completely copy-paste it here again. It has a different set, dropping Sucker Punch for Throat Chop to be able to do something to incoming Ghold and Enamorus and the like. I also added a mention to Axe Kick in this new analysis. https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/sv-ou-metagame-discussion.3710915/page-431#post-9613006
(also, ignore everything I said about Kingambit. I was completely wrong)
Also, I've been trying to use Gallade recently, but it feels pretty hard to use without a choice item. It can't break stuff like Ghold without a boosting item, but it also is outsped by too many things without Scarf. Even with Scarf, it's outrun by stuff like +1 Bax, Pult, Scarf Hamurott, Unburden Sneasler, Boosted Valiant/Moth and of course tier staple Rock Polish Garganacl at +4, which are all very important matchups to want your Scarf mon to win. Swords Dance works sometimes, but oftentimes as I SD something like Enamorus or Bax switches in and threatens me out. Plus, your prediction game has to be ON POINT with either choice item, as there are many Fighting and Psychic resists in the tier and a typical team will probably have at least one of each. I haven't tried Shadow Sneak Tera Ghost, but honestly that sounds like a lot of investment for Gallade of all things instead of a more consistent sweeper like Gambit.
I tried to make specs Glaceon work but wouldn’t say I was that successful. Closest I got was using it on a rain team to double into bulky water resists (Freeze-Dry hits Pex, Clod, Amoongus, Dnite, Wwake, random bulky waters super effectively). Then I had Tera blast water to hit freeze-dry resists hard under rain (Heatean, gambit, gholdengo etc.).
I made a different post that goes into a bit more detail quite a while back that includes team options and hazard removal. I just made this post to not completely copy-paste it here again. It has a different set, dropping Sucker Punch for Throat Chop to be able to do something to incoming Ghold and Enamorus and the like. I also added a mention to Axe Kick in this new analysis. https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/sv-ou-metagame-discussion.3710915/page-431#post-9613006
(also, ignore everything I said about Kingambit. I was completely wrong)
Also, I've been trying to use Gallade recently, but it feels pretty hard to use without a choice item. It can't break stuff like Ghold without a boosting item, but it also is outsped by too many things without Scarf. Even with Scarf, it's outrun by stuff like +1 Bax, Pult, Scarf Hamurott, Unburden Sneasler, Boosted Valiant/Moth and of course tier staple Rock Polish Garganacl at +4, which are all very important matchups to want your Scarf mon to win. Swords Dance works sometimes, but oftentimes as I SD something like Enamorus or Bax switches in and threatens me out. Plus, your prediction game has to be ON POINT with either choice item, as there are many Fighting and Psychic resists in the tier and a typical team will probably have at least one of each. I haven't tried Shadow Sneak Tera Ghost, but honestly that sounds like a lot of investment for Gallade of all things instead of a more consistent sweeper like Gambit.
Just run Adamant Gallade with Agility, Sharpness, and Night Slash to beat Ghold. Item gets freed up to whatever you want (I prefer EBelt, but LO can work too.)
252+ Atk Expert Belt Sharpness Gallade Night Slash vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gholdengo: 307-362 (97.4 - 114.9%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO <-- Pre-Tera
252+ Atk Expert Belt Sharpness Tera Dark Gallade Night Slash vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gholdengo: 461-542 (146.3 - 172%) -- guaranteed OHKO <-- Post Tera
You can legit just bring it in on a Scarf Dengo and watch it go brr. Or Agility up and threaten something else coming in, like a potential Tusk.
252+ Atk Expert Belt Sharpness Tera Dark Gallade Psycho Cut vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Great Tusk: 346-410 (93.2 - 110.5%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Sharpness Tera Dark Gallade Psycho Cut vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Great Tusk: 374-445 (100.8 - 119.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Gallade has potential, just need to work around it a little bit.
i've had some fun with banded mabosstiff, that thing punishes switch-ins like hardly anything else i've ever seen. literally any time you correctly predict a switch, your opponent loses a mon, and they take a massive chunk even if you predict wrong. it also likes to put people in nasty situations where they're forced to either burn their tera or sacrifice a mon. unfortunately, i can't really recommend this in the modern era because i instantly swapped it out for banded hoopa-u the second home dropped
i've also toyed with the idea of banded merciless pex on a tspikes team but i don't have the nerve to actually build it and go on ladder. i feel like it'd probably be too slow and too weak to actually get anything done outside of a surprise gunk shot ohko now and then
Just run Adamant Gallade with Agility, Sharpness, and Night Slash to beat Ghold. Item gets freed up to whatever you want (I prefer EBelt, but LO can work too.)
The temptation to do this now is... really strong. I love Gallade, and my teams kinda struggle against Dragapult. I'd always considered Jolly/SD/Shadow Sneak and found it regularly came up short, but this looks a lot more exciting.
The temptation to do this now is... really strong. I love Gallade, and my teams kinda struggle against Dragapult. I'd always considered Jolly/SD/Shadow Sneak and found it regularly came up short, but this looks a lot more exciting.
The problem with Gallade is that while you have a great Attack stat of 125, your Speed and Defense hold you back at 80 and 65 respectively. I prefer Adamant Agility over Jolly SD, and Jolly Double Dance so that you actually have options and don't die to Dengo or similar stonewalls to Psychic/Fighting STABs.
Also working on theorymonning for Glimmora and making a new team overall. Still in the early stages.
i've had some fun with banded mabosstiff, that thing punishes switch-ins like hardly anything else i've ever seen. literally any time you correctly predict a switch, your opponent loses a mon, and they take a massive chunk even if you predict wrong. it also likes to put people in nasty situations where they're forced to either burn their tera or sacrifice a mon. unfortunately, i can't really recommend this in the modern era because i instantly swapped it out for banded hoopa-u the second home dropped
i've also toyed with the idea of banded merciless pex on a tspikes team but i don't have the nerve to actually build it and go on ladder. i feel like it'd probably be too slow and too weak to actually get anything done outside of a surprise gunk shot ohko now and then
Banded adamant Mabostiff sounds like serious heat. Maybe with zapdos to get it in on glowking. Tera fairy play rough and retaliate could be okay on it.
DLC 1 will have some interesting tools, but there is also some problematic stuff dropping.
The Good:
Thunder Clap vs Gambit Sucker. If Bolt runs sub you have a good chance of winning the mind games vs Gambit thanks to how the move works. That's on paper though, I'm sure Gambit will find a way.
Conk will always be nice for Gambit, Mach Punch will force a Tera or scare it out. Yet, again, Gambit will most likely 1v1 somehow.
Kommo is going to be interesting forsure, I can see a few sets working: BD, Specs/Throat Spray, Mixed, ID BP.
Mamo will find a nice place in the meta I think, may have to Tera to really be top tier but I'm predicting a good showing from the mammoth.
Crawdaunt and Chandy will be fun picks, and will find a place on some teams, but nothing crazy. Craw makes TR much better, but a breaker that loses to Don isn't really a true breaker in SV. Chandy will be mid at best but could have a cool niche w it's ability, typing + tera.
Sun will enjoy Ninetails, but with such a offensive meta Torks bulk is really nice and might just always outclass the fox.
Snorlax is cool, don't see it doing much in OU however.
The Bad:
A-Tails is back, so that's gonna be fun. Screen HO will be back in a big way.
Gliscor seems overhyped, but even losing roost the thing will be difficult for some teams to handle. I could see it as an irritating mon to prep for.
The Ugly:
The Toxic Chain mons. I haven't found info on the % chance, but if it's anything north of 30% that's insane. Even 30% might be really an issue. Ppl are worried about Scald, but this is worse- no mon wonts to get badly psn, unlike Scald where Spa mons don't really care. You can't switch mons in comfortably, even resists. At some level, this will be really annoying, like worse than Scald annoying.
Clef gets Cosmic Power and Stored Power via level up.
Unaware, Max HP Def, Cosmic, SP, Soft, Moon- Tera Steel/Psn to stop stop Toxic
Pair it with screens so it can get a few Cosmics off and a lot of teams are getting folded.
Counter play would be Taunt/Encore, but most of those mons don't want to eat a Moonblast- and Mental Herb lets you muscle past whatever.
There's Ting who can phaze, and Pex Haze- and Trick, but like we've seen with broken Gambit, Trick is shaky counterplay.
CB Bax is a premier breaker, and it loses easily after just one Cosmic. 252 Atk Choice Band Baxcalibur Icicle Crash vs. +1 252 HP / 252 Def Clefable: 145-172 (36.8 - 43.6%) -- 99.7% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Ursa is the other breaker, loses if Reflect is up, or a well timed Tera. 252+ Atk Guts Ursaluna Facade (140 BP) vs. +1 252 HP / 252 Def Clefable through Reflect: 127-150 (32.2 - 38%) -- 1.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Tera Steel stops Meow CB Flower from breaking at all.
The common CM SP Cress set is good right now, but you can just set up in it's face with a few phys mons and muscle past, as it can only boost Spd. Still a set that needs respected, but isn't crazy.
Clef is crazy because Unaware stops a lot of counterplay SP Cress has.
There of course is also the CM Magic Guard variant, which also must be respected.
-
I could be wrong and the meta will adapt, but between Screens HO coming back, Toxic Chain, and this Clef set we might be in for some trouble.
A screens or SP suspect might be on the table, since Tera won't be going anywhere until maybe DLC 2.
TL;DR:
Some cool mons with niches we needed are coming back, but Aurora Veil, Clef, and Toxic Chain are going to cause some pain on an already strained meta.
DLC 1 will have some interesting tools, but there is also some problematic stuff dropping.
The Good:
Thunder Clap vs Gambit Sucker. If Bolt runs sub you have a good chance of winning the mind games vs Gambit thanks to how the move works. That's on paper though, I'm sure Gambit will find a way.
Do we know if the next two paradox Pokemon are in DLC1 or 2? From the way the trailers have been showing things it seems as if they're gonna drop in 2 and Thunder Clap is probably the signature move of the Bolt.
Do we know if the next two paradox Pokemon are in DLC1 or 2? From the way the trailers have been showing things it seems as if they're gonna drop in 2 and Thunder Clap is probably the signature move of the Bolt.
Also want to add two mons to the Good category: Vikavolt and Poliwrath.
Wrath will be great for Rain, as they struggle the most with Gambit, and it lives a fallen 5 +2 Sucker and OHKOs w CC.
Volt is cool for it's Tusk MU. Nothing Tusk has is a 2hko, and it can Roost off a Knock or Spinner with ease. (Not sure if it keeps roost, if it doesn't then that's still not bad) Not an easy mon to switch into once in, and it always gets in vs 80% usage Tusk.
Overall, I'm excited to have some more ground resists and potential answers to Gambit.
Only time will tell if these new mons can hang with Val, Bax, Pult, Enam, Garg, etc.
Teams may just end up looking basically the same after new toy syndrome dies down, we'll see.
DLC 1 will have some interesting tools, but there is also some problematic stuff dropping.
The Good:
Thunder Clap vs Gambit Sucker. If Bolt runs sub you have a good chance of winning the mind games vs Gambit thanks to how the move works. That's on paper though, I'm sure Gambit will find a way.
Conk will always be nice for Gambit, Mach Punch will force a Tera or scare it out. Yet, again, Gambit will most likely 1v1 somehow.
Kommo is going to be interesting forsure, I can see a few sets working: BD, Specs/Throat Spray, Mixed, ID BP.
Mamo will find a nice place in the meta I think, may have to Tera to really be top tier but I'm predicting a good showing from the mammoth.
Crawdaunt and Chandy will be fun picks, and will find a place on some teams, but nothing crazy. Craw makes TR much better, but a breaker that loses to Don isn't really a true breaker in SV. Chandy will be mid at best but could have a cool niche w it's ability, typing + tera.
Sun will enjoy Ninetails, but with such a offensive meta Torks bulk is really nice and might just always outclass the fox.
Snorlax is cool, don't see it doing much in OU however.
The Bad:
A-Tails is back, so that's gonna be fun. Screen HO will be back in a big way.
Gliscor seems overhyped, but even losing roost the thing will be difficult for some teams to handle. I could see it as an irritating mon to prep for.
The Ugly:
The Toxic Chain mons. I haven't found info on the % chance, but if it's anything north of 30% that's insane. Even 30% might be really an issue. Ppl are worried about Scald, but this is worse- no mon wonts to get badly psn, unlike Scald where Spa mons don't really care. You can't switch mons in comfortably, even resists. At some level, this will be really annoying, like worse than Scald annoying.
Clef gets Cosmic Power and Stored Power via level up.
Unaware, Max HP Def, Cosmic, SP, Soft, Moon- Tera Steel/Psn to stop stop Toxic
Pair it with screens so it can get a few Cosmics off and a lot of teams are getting folded.
Counter play would be Taunt/Encore, but most of those mons don't want to eat a Moonblast- and Mental Herb lets you muscle past whatever.
There's Ting who can phaze, and Pex Haze- and Trick, but like we've seen with broken Gambit, Trick is shaky counterplay.
CB Bax is a premier breaker, and it loses easily after just one Cosmic. 252 Atk Choice Band Baxcalibur Icicle Crash vs. +1 252 HP / 252 Def Clefable: 145-172 (36.8 - 43.6%) -- 99.7% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Ursa is the other breaker, loses if Reflect is up, or a well timed Tera. 252+ Atk Guts Ursaluna Facade (140 BP) vs. +1 252 HP / 252 Def Clefable through Reflect: 127-150 (32.2 - 38%) -- 1.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Tera Steel stops Meow CB Flower from breaking at all.
The common CM SP Cress set is good right now, but you can just set up in it's face with a few phys mons and muscle past, as it can only boost Spd. Still a set that needs respected, but isn't crazy.
Clef is crazy because Unaware stops a lot of counterplay SP Cress has.
There of course is also the CM Magic Guard variant, which also must be respected.
-
I could be wrong and the meta will adapt, but between Screens HO coming back, Toxic Chain, and this Clef set we might be in for some trouble.
A screens or SP suspect might be on the table, since Tera won't be going anywhere until maybe DLC 2.
TL;DR:
Some cool mons with niches we needed are coming back, but Aurora Veil, Clef, and Toxic Chain are going to cause some pain on an already strained meta.
I'd like to add something on top of this: TechTop will be coming back. TechTop is actually a threat to a large number of common threats with BP/MP/Sucker/Fake Out shenanigans. It'll be in DLC 2 as opposed to 1, but Top could maaaaybe see some fringe play, especially with Tera Steel.
252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Tera Steel Hitmontop Fake Out vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Iron Valiant: 82-97 (28.3 - 33.5%) -- 0.2% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Tera Steel Hitmontop Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Iron Valiant: 244-291 (84.4 - 100.6%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Hitmontop Mach Punch vs. 112 HP / 0 Def Kingambit: 390-458 (105.6 - 124.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Hitmontop Fake Out vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Baxcalibur: 81-96 (21.8 - 25.8%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Hitmontop Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Baxcalibur: 242-289 (65.2 - 77.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Tera Steel Hitmontop Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Baxcalibur: 242-289 (65.2 - 77.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Tera Steel Hitmontop Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragapult: 224-265 (70.6 - 83.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
The list goes on and on. Top can one to two tap so many Pokemon with a full set of priority moves. It won't be OU by any means, but has potential as a UU, or possibly RU tier Pokemon by itself that happens to have an OU niche. I'm very much looking forward to this mon. Of course, having Spin natively is also a major boon for it.
I'd like to add something on top of this: TechTop will be coming back. TechTop is actually a threat to a large number of common threats with BP/MP/Sucker/Fake Out shenanigans. It'll be in DLC 2 as opposed to 1, but Top could maaaaybe see some fringe play, especially with Tera Steel.
252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Tera Steel Hitmontop Fake Out vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Iron Valiant: 82-97 (28.3 - 33.5%) -- 0.2% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Tera Steel Hitmontop Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Iron Valiant: 244-291 (84.4 - 100.6%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Hitmontop Mach Punch vs. 112 HP / 0 Def Kingambit: 390-458 (105.6 - 124.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Hitmontop Fake Out vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Baxcalibur: 81-96 (21.8 - 25.8%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Hitmontop Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Baxcalibur: 242-289 (65.2 - 77.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Tera Steel Hitmontop Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Baxcalibur: 242-289 (65.2 - 77.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Tera Steel Hitmontop Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragapult: 224-265 (70.6 - 83.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
The list goes on and on. Top can one to two tap so many Pokemon with a full set of priority moves. It won't be OU by any means, but has potential as a UU, or possibly RU tier Pokemon by itself that happens to have an OU niche. I'm very much looking forward to this mon. Of course, having Spin natively is also a major boon for it.
Contrarily, I don't think Technician will be the reason HMT will have a niche. It's biggest benefit is being able to Spin on Ghost Pokemon. Previous generations used Foresight to allow Rapid Spin to remove Hazards vs. Ghosts. More importantly, HMT's STAB Fighting will hit Gholdengo for SE damage after Foresight. Its bulky stat distribution allows him to comfortably matchup against the two big Steels. The main downside I see is that a CC, even if it's SE, wouldn't be enough to OHKO 0 HP Gholdy
Contrarily, I don't think Technician will be the reason HMT will have a niche. It's biggest benefit is being able to Spin on Ghost Pokemon. Previous generations used Foresight to allow Rapid Spin to remove Hazards vs. Ghosts. More importantly, HMT's STAB Fighting will hit Gholdengo for SE damage after Foresight. Its bulky stat distribution allows him to comfortably matchup against the two big Steels. The main downside I see is that a CC, even if it's SE, wouldn't be enough to OHKO 0 HP Gholdy
1. Is Foresight going to be in the game? It got removed in SS.
2. Would Foresight even go through Good as Gold?
Edit: I tested it in National Dex and Foresight in fact does not go through Good as Gold anyway.
DLC 1 will have some interesting tools, but there is also some problematic stuff dropping.
The Good:
Thunder Clap vs Gambit Sucker. If Bolt runs sub you have a good chance of winning the mind games vs Gambit thanks to how the move works. That's on paper though, I'm sure Gambit will find a way.
Conk will always be nice for Gambit, Mach Punch will force a Tera or scare it out. Yet, again, Gambit will most likely 1v1 somehow.
Kommo is going to be interesting forsure, I can see a few sets working: BD, Specs/Throat Spray, Mixed, ID BP.
Mamo will find a nice place in the meta I think, may have to Tera to really be top tier but I'm predicting a good showing from the mammoth.
Crawdaunt and Chandy will be fun picks, and will find a place on some teams, but nothing crazy. Craw makes TR much better, but a breaker that loses to Don isn't really a true breaker in SV. Chandy will be mid at best but could have a cool niche w it's ability, typing + tera.
Sun will enjoy Ninetails, but with such a offensive meta Torks bulk is really nice and might just always outclass the fox.
Snorlax is cool, don't see it doing much in OU however.
The Bad:
A-Tails is back, so that's gonna be fun. Screen HO will be back in a big way.
Gliscor seems overhyped, but even losing roost the thing will be difficult for some teams to handle. I could see it as an irritating mon to prep for.
The Ugly:
The Toxic Chain mons. I haven't found info on the % chance, but if it's anything north of 30% that's insane. Even 30% might be really an issue. Ppl are worried about Scald, but this is worse- no mon wonts to get badly psn, unlike Scald where Spa mons don't really care. You can't switch mons in comfortably, even resists. At some level, this will be really annoying, like worse than Scald annoying.
Clef gets Cosmic Power and Stored Power via level up.
Unaware, Max HP Def, Cosmic, SP, Soft, Moon- Tera Steel/Psn to stop stop Toxic
Pair it with screens so it can get a few Cosmics off and a lot of teams are getting folded.
Counter play would be Taunt/Encore, but most of those mons don't want to eat a Moonblast- and Mental Herb lets you muscle past whatever.
There's Ting who can phaze, and Pex Haze- and Trick, but like we've seen with broken Gambit, Trick is shaky counterplay.
CB Bax is a premier breaker, and it loses easily after just one Cosmic. 252 Atk Choice Band Baxcalibur Icicle Crash vs. +1 252 HP / 252 Def Clefable: 145-172 (36.8 - 43.6%) -- 99.7% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Ursa is the other breaker, loses if Reflect is up, or a well timed Tera. 252+ Atk Guts Ursaluna Facade (140 BP) vs. +1 252 HP / 252 Def Clefable through Reflect: 127-150 (32.2 - 38%) -- 1.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Tera Steel stops Meow CB Flower from breaking at all.
The common CM SP Cress set is good right now, but you can just set up in it's face with a few phys mons and muscle past, as it can only boost Spd. Still a set that needs respected, but isn't crazy.
Clef is crazy because Unaware stops a lot of counterplay SP Cress has.
There of course is also the CM Magic Guard variant, which also must be respected.
-
I could be wrong and the meta will adapt, but between Screens HO coming back, Toxic Chain, and this Clef set we might be in for some trouble.
A screens or SP suspect might be on the table, since Tera won't be going anywhere until maybe DLC 2.
TL;DR:
Some cool mons with niches we needed are coming back, but Aurora Veil, Clef, and Toxic Chain are going to cause some pain on an already strained meta.
I'm not sure about Kommo-o after thinking about it more. In a meta where Tusk rules the roost, Kommo-O will have a hard time standing out since its nearly impossible to compete with that statline. Its both slower and weaker than Tusk and its physical Bulk is way worse too since its HP is 40 points lower. Its typing does give it some utility vs Pokemon such as Meowscarada and Samurott-H that would give Tusk a hard time, but at the same time, it also doesn't have any way to remove the Spikes they set up either. It also has way better special bulk, but I can't think of any MUs that would be too relevant in off the top of my head.
252 SpA Alakazam Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Great Tusk: 504-594 (116.1 - 136.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Alakazam Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Kommo-o: 290-344 (81.9 - 97.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
I guess one thing it can do that Tusk can't is be a complete Dragapult counter. With Tera Fairy Bulletproof, you would be immune to both of its STABs. You can run other defensive Teras like Steel to be a Gholdengo Check. Bulletproof will give it an immunity to several other moves like Cinderace's Pyro Ball, which is pretty great.
It has a lot of offensive variety in setup moves compared to Tusk, but TBH, I mainly think it'll be using Clangerous Soul. Belly Drum sets are nerfed due to no Scale Shot, and Swords Dance / Dragon Dance sets are gonna have a tough time competing with Baxcalibur (which is also faster and stronger). Clangerous Soul might have some issues with Health management and being a bit too slow, but I still think it could manage w/ a good Tera-type, maybe Tera Poison for Iron Valiant or Tera Flying for Tusks.
In general, I think powercreep might have gotten a bit too high for Kommo-o to keep up, though we'll obviously have to wait and see how the DLC meta turns out.
As for Clef, you may be onto something. I'm surprised it didn't run Stored Power last gen since that could have let it win Clef wars pretty easily, as well as potentially beat other Pokemon like Volcarona while still running Magic Guard. I could see that CM or Cosmic Power Stored Power set being borderline broken then.
1. Is Foresight going to be in the game? It got removed in SS.
2. Would Foresight even go through Good as Gold?
Edit: I tested it in National Dex and Foresight in fact does not go through Good as Gold anyway.
@ Choice Band
