Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v2 [Update on Post #5186]

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Finchinator

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Early thoughts from watching a bunch:
  • :Ursaluna: is the best Trick Room Pokemon ever and likely uncounterable to a broken degree. With Eject Pack Magearna and Chilly Reception Slowking-G, Trick Room is already more accessible than ever. Enter Ursaluna, who is a picture perfect abuser. It’s naturally very bulk, it has an incredibly spammable move, it’s able to practically ignore status, and it can opt to SD for some walls or break most things from the start.
  • :Sneasler: is outright stupid. It can be checked, it can be countered, and it is not the same offensive profile (or even close) to others being discussed now, but Dire Claw in such a fragile metagame state may not have a place. Way too much variance and no true way to circumvent it or enforce counterplay besides being fortunate.
  • :Regieleki: is probably broken. Not a huge shock, but BoltBeam with Tera and that much power is nuts when coming off of speed like that. Priority is awesome for it and a few things soft check, but hands are being simplified by these single interactions and that’s not very competitive or stimulating.
  • :Magearna: is pulling the same stuff it did last generation, but with more openings due to Tera and arguably more possibilities. Mainly seeing the Stored Power sets now, but I imagine it can pull off a lot. It’s worth noting that it’s kinda needed for Chien-Pao now, who I’ll probably get to in a later post.
 
Early thoughts from watching a bunch:
  • :Ursaluna: is the best Trick Room Pokemon ever and likely uncounterable to a broken degree. With Eject Pack Magearna and Chilly Reception Slowking-G, Trick Room is already more accessible than ever. Enter Ursaluna, who is a picture perfect abuser. It’s naturally very bulk, it has an incredibly spammable move, it’s able to practically ignore status, and it can opt to SD for some walls or break most things from the start.
  • :Sneasler: is outright stupid. It can be checked, it can be countered, and it is not the same offensive profile (or even close) to others being discussed now, but Dire Claw in such a fragile metagame state may not have a place. Way too much variance and no true way to circumvent it or enforce counterplay besides being fortunate.
  • :Regieleki: is probably broken. Not a huge shock, but BoltBeam with Tera and that much power is nuts when coming off of speed like that. Priority is awesome for it and a few things soft check, but hands are being simplified by these single interactions and that’s not very competitive or stimulating.
  • :Magearna: is pulling the same stuff it did last generation, but with more openings due to Tera and arguably more possibilities. Mainly seeing the Stored Power sets now, but I imagine it can pull off a lot. It’s worth noting that it’s kinda needed for Chien-Pao now, who I’ll probably get to in a later post.
Dire claw being status claused perhaps?
 
Early thoughts from watching a bunch:
  • :Ursaluna: is the best Trick Room Pokemon ever and likely uncounterable to a broken degree. With Eject Pack Magearna and Chilly Reception Slowking-G, Trick Room is already more accessible than ever. Enter Ursaluna, who is a picture perfect abuser. It’s naturally very bulk, it has an incredibly spammable move, it’s able to practically ignore status, and it can opt to SD for some walls or break most things from the start.
  • :Sneasler: is outright stupid. It can be checked, it can be countered, and it is not the same offensive profile (or even close) to others being discussed now, but Dire Claw in such a fragile metagame state may not have a place. Way too much variance and no true way to circumvent it or enforce counterplay besides being fortunate.
  • :Regieleki: is probably broken. Not a huge shock, but BoltBeam with Tera and that much power is nuts when coming off of speed like that. Priority is awesome for it and a few things soft check, but hands are being simplified by these single interactions and that’s not very competitive or stimulating.
  • :Magearna: is pulling the same stuff it did last generation, but with more openings due to Tera and arguably more possibilities. Mainly seeing the Stored Power sets now, but I imagine it can pull off a lot. It’s worth noting that it’s kinda needed for Chien-Pao now, who I’ll probably get to in a later post.
Hypothetical question: if Dire Claw becomes too much, would Sneasler the Pokemon be banned?
 

churine

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in my five minutes of playing the new home meta, these home additions have made weather even more powerful. im mainly going to talk about rain and sun here because sand and snow didnt see much change from what i see.

:basculegion: :tornadus-therian: :zapdos:
starting off with rain, rain already seemed good before home but the addition of basculegion and return of both tornadus and zapdos have really catapulted its potential. basculegion imo is really interesting because it actually doesnt have any physical ghost stabs given we banned last respects (deservingly), and the only other one is phantom force. it feels like a midground between barraskewda and floatzel in that it has wave crash unlike barra but hits harder than floatzel. while its noticeably slower than both of those, it still outruns most scarfers with an adamant nature and it has better bulk than a wet tissue paper at least, as well as immunity to fighting and normal, meaning it does have slightly more opportunities to switch in, which imo makes it prob the best swift swimmer. but basculegions other ability, adaptability, poises it to be a ridiculous wallbreaker, even more so than crawdaunt, and i feel both abilities are viable on rain. i could legitimately see guessing games of whether it be swift swim or adaptability, with both forms hitting like a truck either way. you could prob stack another one of those aforementioned swift swimmers like floatzel and just onslaught the opponent with rain boosted moves; its pretty absurd honestly. should also mention the female basculegion as well, imo its main draw is having an actual ghost stab in shadow ball, but i feel its not as consistent as it would need to rely on hydro pump for power and its easier checked by like clodsire. its probably best not as a swift swimmer but with as wallbreaker with adaptability, likely on teams outside of rain.
we also have the return of rain staple tornt, back to do its things as something to take on grasses and fighters and pivot in mates while spamming hurricane (although rip knock off), and zapdos is back here too though it actually lost weather ball which is pretty unfortunate. i still think it would be preferred over killowattrel due to its better bulk therefore more opportunity to get in on the field, but again, losing weather ball sucks; at least you have tera blast ig.

:lilligant-hisui: :arcanine-hisui: :typhlosion-hisui:
onto sun, main additions im looking at here are the hisuian forms of lilligant and arcanine, as well as typhlosion to an extent. lilligant-h is already immediately threatening in sun due to chlorophyll, but it can also function outside of sun due to victory dance, which to no one surprise, a physical qd is crazy powerful. you can come in to threaten a cc on something only to vd up and be even more scary. its also crazy this mon gets ice spinner too so you dont even need to necessarily burn a tera to hit flyers. honestly its main issue is that grass is not a powerful physical type, your best option is leaf blade unless you wanna hard commit to sun with solar blade, which maybe it can work on like a cb set or smth, but i feel that grass stab could be droppable for something like tera blast fire to hit gholdengo. i also should mention that this mon gets sleep powder but honestly i dont think its that worth, this mon really wants its coverage and vd, and i dont fuck with the accuracy. same reason with hustle but youd prob want hustle on non-sun teams just for the power at least. overall though i can see this mon be a premier chlorophyll sweeper which makes me so happy eeee this mon slays.
arcanine-h on the other hand is simple af. slap a choice band, go tera fire, spam flare blitz and head smash with no recoil to incinerate your foes. you also still have espeed as priority and idk ur fourth move doesnt rly matter whether its cc double edge or w/e. very fun mon held back by head smash accuracy and hazards weakness. both typhlosion forms are really fun to use on sun even though they are hard to fit, really wish home brought back burn up for these guys it would be so sick with tera fire. you still have the paradox past forms like your walkingwakes and greattusks which make sun more diverse than rain imo, but its rly fun to see these unga bunga mons

overall i think its interesting how these weather styles got new tools to work with, and i can see them be very powerful.
 
but Dire Claw in such a fragile metagame state may not have a place.
Just run convert cloak bro!
Hypothetical question: if Dire Claw becomes too much, would Sneasler the Pokemon be banned?
Since it is the only mon getting it for now, yeah, not point in banning the move if only one mon gets it. Now, if Smeargle returns it would make it even harder to justify banning the move since it won't run it.
 
I'll type out a another post later but REGIELEKI that thing is a menace, I play OU casually (which could be used to discredit my opinion if you want lol) but even I can tell with the games I played the way I use it feels like a more menacing Kingambit.

Also Hamurrot, Kleavor and Glimmora team kinda funny it isn't actually that bad imo maybe if i go higher up in ladder it might not be as good but i like it

Also offensive sash glimmora is underrated it sounds random but it sets hazards deals good damage and can take out the crazy threats in the meta too so thats even better

Big bad bear use headlong rush, BOOM! Energy Ball and its dead! If regieleki decides not to volt switch then you can OHKO with earth power, Dragons over here get taken out by dazzling gleam and sludge bomb can be used in longer games as a form of scald.
 
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awyp

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I don't think Sneasler is the problem but Dire Claw doesn't deserve to be in OU tbh. I think one of them has to go in due time, way too much variance and I don't think it in general inspires competitive play. My first opinion on home is that homie has got to go or the move has to go, whichever I don't care.
 
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I don't think Sneasler is the problem but Dire Claw doesn't deserve to be in OU tbh. I think one of them has to go in due time, way too much variance and I don't think it in general inspires competitive play. My first opinion on home is that homie has go to go or the move has to go, whichever I don't care.
i mean its kinda clear whos gonna go, H-sneasel aint gonna mess up the meta lol
 
I think the thing there is that the Field Ability for Torkoal and especially Pelipper do massive work in tying their kits together. Pelipper goes from a sitting duck to a slow Pivot with very high BP STABs compensating its nothing-special offensive stats, while Torkoal's defenses and either Rocks or Spinning serve the offensive breaker style of Weather teams well since he compresses some of the non-attacker utility into a slot you're obligated to fit already.

Rillaboom doesn't gain a great deal that's synergistic with Grassy Terrain, in that it makes maybe one of his strong aspects better with the boosted STAB and some extra healing, but it doesn't really fill a gap to give him a cohesive role beyond "make field effect happen", that lacking area being why Pelipper completely erased Politoed's existence. Terrains just aren't very well suited to building a team around in a lot of cases until very recently with stuff like Quark Drive for Electric or the (almost seemingly accidental) Psyspam synergy. Rillaboom isn't being run for a team so much as for one team member to function better, compared to how Hawlucha, while much worse than Sneasler, was asking you to run what were already some of the most influential Pokemon in the Gen 7-8 Metagames (to the point it could sometimes just get the trigger off the opponent's instead of your own)
You can't undersell Bulu's secondary fairy type like that. It allowed it to pivot into a lot of stuff safely, knock off and u-turn are nice but we have a lot of users for those moves already.

Just like pika pal mentioned already, the other terrian settters have better synergy with the current rooster of mons in the game, we just got a lot of good flying types so the EQ damage reduction is less valuable. Rilla is a decent mon but without GG it has not business on OU. Outside grassy terrain others do what it does but better and grassy terrain itself doesn't have much good synergies rn.
This is just some pretty circular logic here and with logic that isn’t even true.
The original post was not using Rillaboom with Sneasler, 2 Pokemon that clearly synergize well with each other, but suddenly Grassy Terrain doesn’t synergize well with anything in the tier. And that’s not even true. You have every Ground weak Pokemon, every Pokemon who appreciates passive recovery, and every Pokemon who appreciates having their Grass moves powered up. It’s also not lacking in abilities either. You have Unburden, which technically is not exclusive to Grassy Terrain, would you honestly rather use Pincurchin and Electric Seed?
Bottom line is, Rillaboom is best option for Unburden Pokemon. You’re not running shitmons like Pircurchin or Indeedee, and you know if Indeedee can find a niche in OU with Psyspam teams, there is no doubt you’ll see Rilla with Sneasler, Iron Moth, Heatran, Gholdango, Kingambit, Meowscarada, Skeledirge, ect. because it’s arguably the most useful terrain.
 
Dire Claw is the major problem but, paired up with Poison Touch, anything not made of steel or salt will be statused instantly. And both steel and salt usually hates beeing punched by STAB fighting-type moves.

So I guess Sneasler must go.
 
Thank goodness that Finchinator sees that Ursaluna is broken. This thing is basically Melmetal on steroids. While it may not be as bulky on the physical side and doesn't have as great of a defensive typing as Melmetal does, the raw breaking power due to Guts, sky-high attack, and multiple high-power STABs with great offensive typings, is absurd, OHKOing pretty much every offensive Pokemon aside from Great Tusk and being "OHKO Walls" powerful. This thing has cover legend bulk and power. Its speed is its only negative trait.
 
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I have been surprised that both zamazentas are pretty managable surprisingly at the moment during this chaotic meta.

I was scared crown was gonna be broken but, weirdly enough its been kind of a struggle to use at times.

Body press sets are wild though
 
I really do wish we could preserve sneasler though...
I’d really prefer to just kill Dire Claw first instead of throwing the baby out with the bath water so we can see if Sneaseler is actually the problem or not. It’s also worth mentioning that Gholdengho is immune to both of its stabs and resists acrobatics, and Toxapex looks like a lot more favorable of an answer with Dire Claw gone, but we’ll just have to see where the chips fall
 
Sleep Clause does it work with Dire Claw?
I made a test with level 1 Sneasler vs Toxel and Toxtricity. Those can only be put to sleep by Dire Claw since they are immune to both poison and paralysis. Never menaged to put them both to sleep, and always got Dire Claw PP depleted. So I guess that although Sleep Clause mostly aplies to 100% sleep moves, it is coded in a way that more than one pokemon can't be asleep in a team I THINK. Maybe i was just unlucky.
 
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