Announcement SV National Dex UU Stage 5.3: Lavender Haze

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Having taken over the metagame by storm and as quickly as the follow-up from our last post. The council has decided to suspect test Iron Moth!


Suspect Reasoning:

Iron Moth has been a rather controversial Pokemon, even with the long-standing history it has had thus far. From a tier full of ups and downs attached to both itself and others, to its outstanding reputation as sibling to Big :volcarona:™, it has nevertheless managed to preserve and remain one of the most reliable and threatening presences in the tier to date, and has even seen a strong resurgence against the prevalence of hyper offense teamstyles lately, to say nothing of the dynamics used to handle it having shifted overtime to a more questionable perspective as such, thus marking the overall outline of reasons for this suspect test down below.

Currently, Iron Moth reins as one of the top sweepers and wallbreakers in the tier; it packs all the power you can ask for, as evident from the implications of its base 140 Special Attack, often bolstered further by Fiery Dance or secondary boosts, to a remarkable offensive movepool. A perfectly capable Speed tier of 110 often complements these aspects too, usually being finalized with pairings of Agility or even the occasional Speed boost from Booster Energy to exercise its impact on the majority of games it features in, the former of which is also capable of outspeeding every relevant Choice Scarfer or Speed-boosting threat after setup. It even packs significant special defense to top things off, allowing it to survive the occasional Water-type encounter or Choice Scarfers attacking it from that end under more conditional circumstances.

In terms of moveset, Iron Moth’s most common variations always opt for the signature combination of Fiery Dance and Sludge Wave, rounded out by coverage options in Energy Ball to nail common Waters and Grounds such as Hippowdon and Rotom-W, weakening these targets far more effectively than its other options, Psychic to win opposing Iron Moth mirrors in a pinch, or even Dazzling Gleam to KO the occasional Dragons like Latios or Hydreigon that would otherwise survive an unboosted attack, with it and the former covering simultaneously for its arch-nemesis Tyranitar. These sets will usually feature some form of Booster Energy to raise with Special Attack or Speed with the appropriate EV investment and upon switchin, making it potentially far more dangerous when confronted in the traditional sense. As discussed previously, more utility-focused sets remain very viable as well, making use of Heavy-Duty Boots to not get worn down by Stealth Rock and Spikes, and even generating momentum with U-turn or being able to set Toxic Spikes of its own to fill the necessary requirements of the more defensive approach it thus occupies, being a very unique and multi-dimensional check to many Fairy and Steel-types on teams in need of the offensive firepower it holds.

However, not all carnations within roses remain positive for Iron Moth’s tenure in the tier. While it is true that Iron Moth has more than enough power to make the occasion beyond just a dice roll in its favor, tactics against it have been multifaceted to the extent teams can often respond to it one way or another without the need to adapt answers extensively. This generally ranges from common defensive staples, most importantly Ting-Lu, Tyranitar formes, and Mega Latias, to generally bulky Pokemon such as Swords Dance Iron Hands, and even Pokemon that can commonly exploit its 4x Ground weakness to remove it in a pinch, such as Mega Venusaur, Celesteela and Assault Vest Tangrowth, many of which we see stacked on the same these compositions in some form. Speed Booster variants, while more consistent in tandem with the general flow of most offensive teams, are especially crippled by their reliance on Fiery Dance boosts to break through most full-health targets, thus reserving it for more of a late-game role, whereas Agility sets can sometimes be deterred from setting up altogether.

Iron Moth’s tendencies to struggle against these structures in practice may also be reinforced by its other weaknesses and frailty on the physical side, and weakness to entry hazards outside of Heavy-Duty Boots, making revenge killing or pressuring it far easier to do as a whole with faster Pokemon such as Alakazam, Choice Scarf Galarian Zapdos, and Zeraora, should the respective boosts from Booster Energy remain obsolete. The recent Light Clay ban, while not entirely tied to Iron Moth’s capabilities as an offensive sweeper, also significantly restricts the flexibility in playing around many of these combined situations to begin with, limiting the ability of Agility variants to trade with the aforementioned key targets to achieve necessary sweeping conditions. Added to this, more individually successful checks with sufficient bulk and resistances have also been seeing substantial use in concordance to shifts influenced handily by Iron Moth as well, but have each proven very viable outside of handling it regardless - including the likes of Slowking and Mega Aerodactyl, to Nihilego and Ceruledge on more offensive teams, which can all easily finish off a boosted Iron Moth if kept healthy.


Suspect Test Information
  • Reading this is mandatory to participate in the suspect test. The voting requirements are a minimum GXE of 79 with at least 40 games played. In addition, you may play 1 less game for every 0.2 GXE you have above 79 GXE, down to a minimum of 20 games at a GXE of 83. Also, needing more than 40 games to reach 79 GXE will suffice.
GXEminimum games
7940
79.239
79.438
79.637
79.836
8035
80.234
80.433
80.632
80.831
8130
81.229
81.428
81.627
81.826
8225
82.224
82.423
82.622
82.821
8320
  • You must use a fresh account that begins with the given prefix for this suspect test. That prefix is NDUU9IMTH. For example, I could signup and qualify with the name NDUU9IMTH Arishem.
  • You may not impersonate or mock another user with your account name. If there is any slight hesitation, you're probably better off picking a different name. We reserve the right to null your voting requisites if you are found impersonating or mocking another user with your account name. Moderator discretion will be applied.
  • If you are found trying to manipulate voting requisites in any way, you will be met with a harsh infraction. Manipulating voting requisites ranges from faking your screenshot to asking another user to forfeit.
  • The Pokemon that's being suspect tested, Iron Moth, will be allowed on the National Dex UU ladder for the next two weeks so that we can properly assess its position in the metagame.
This suspect test will go on for two weeks. It will last until December the 22nd at 11:59 PM GMT-4.
 

awyp

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Got reqs, I will say I don't think Iron Moth is too much for the tier mainly because of one simple reason, the most dominant Pokemon in the tier (Tyranitar Mega) walls tf out of it, best case scenario its a Fiery Dance Boost on a Tyranitar switch and you go for a Energy Ball if you have it. Iron Moth definitely suffers from 4 Moves Syndrome, because if you don't want to get walled by Vena-M you need Psychic. It also gets walled by Skeledirge as well, yeah Tyranitar is in the tier but if you play the game right you can keep it in battle plus Iron Moth doesn't like taking sandstorm damage. With introduction of Ting Lu in the tier as well, there's just enough sort of mons you can choose from without saying I need this on my team strictly because of Iron Moth. Iron Moths most common set is Booster Speed, I haven't seen much of the SpA boosting, I have seen some boots but the only reason I'm mentioning these sets are because they are not as threatening as booster speed (since you outspeed everything outside Exca in sand), I will say I think SpA boosting with Agility has a lot of potential but still falls short [sometimes] because you need a free turn to setup Agility (which isn't super difficult on the right mon). I forgot to mention Blissey exists. Yeah it'll be a DNB for me.
 
I've already written at length in the Metagame Discussion, but I wanted to also write here to explain why I will be voting ban on Iron Moth. Feel free to check out the Metagame thread to see more of my thoughts.

In short, the reason Moth should be banned is because of the combination of its typing, raw power, movepool, and set combinations.

Here's the long explanation. A Fire/Poison typing not only allows Iron Moth to avoid all forms of passive damage from Status, which Stall teams rely on to wear down fast offensive threats, but also allows it to take on tier staples like Cinderace and Celesteela. Iron Moth's power is also insane, being able to 2HKO the entire tier after a Fiery Dance boost, and often even without one if using Booster Energy for Special Attack. Fiery Dance itself is another problem, coupled with the near unlimited coverage options Moth has, such as Energy Ball, Psychic, and Dazzling Gleam. The RNG inherent in Fiery Dance can turn decent checks like H-Goodra, Ting-Lu, or Tyranitar into shaky options at best. Additionally, Moth can use a Boots + U-Turn set to beat such checks in the long term, and can even use Morning Sun on those sets to 1v1 Chansey. The most common Moth set is Booster Speed, which often opts for Energy Ball and Substitute in the last 2 slots, but even Booster Speed sets can use Morning Sun or other coverage options. These three sets are essentially able to beat the entire tier, as there is no real reliable counter to Iron Moth.

Obviously Moth cannot run all three sets at once. Booster Special suffers from needing a setup turn, which withs Moth's typing isn't always easy given its 4x Ground weakness. Boots Pivot sets can struggle with being outsped or lacking the coverage necessary to beat mons like Tyranitar or Quagsire. Booster Speed needs to take a cut to its Special Attack to get the Speed raise, so it can often lack in power if you don't get enough Spatk raises from Fiery Dance.

However, these issues do not mean Moth is not a phenomenal option in the tier. It is one of the best late-game cleaners in the tier, and is also one of the best Wallbreakers. I wanted to discuss some of the points brought up by awyp. While Tyranitar does check Iron Moth, there is always an issue in the matchup, which is whether to Pursuit Iron Moth on the switch, or Stone Edge and try to kill it. Booster Sets don't die to Knock Off, and Max Attack TTar rarely even OHKOs Moth switching out with Pursuit. If Stone Edge misses, TTar gets blown up by 2 Energy Balls. Mega Venusaur gets chunked by Fiery Dance or Sludge Wave, and can only switch into Moth if its Mega evolved already. It also easily is 2HKOd by Booster Special. Ting-Lu and Skeledirge are both more solid checks, but both can get worn down, either by getting Knocked or Pursuited. And finally, like I mentioned, Blissey and Chansey are not counters, but serve as roadblocks to get chip or if the Fiery Dance RNG really goes your way, kill Moth while sustaining heavy damage.

To be honest, I'm not sure how Moth is going to fare in the Post-DLC meta. I still think it's very good and very underutilized, and with the rise of Meowscarada Booster Sets have gotten a lot better. For these reasons, despite a new meta, I will still be voting Ban. If we get Slowking-Galar back and maybe one other reliable answer, it could be worse retesting Moth, but until that happens, I'm happy shaking this bug out of the tier.
 
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