Super Smash Bros 64, Melee, and Brawl thread

[alphatron]

From what I see Melee vs Brawl is Competitive vs Casual.

Anyone that has played both games competitively will say Melee is better, people that just play the series casually will favor Brawl. That's basically what it comes down to

I question the part about casual players preferring brawl even at that point. Melee had a faster paced system and allowed for more items to be on the screen at the same time than brawl did. Melee's matches were potentially more chaotic. I'm a casual player, and although I prefer brawl, I can see this.

I'll admit that what keeps me playing it now are the stages and textures I can download.

 

[Mentlegen]

I'm a pretty casual player. I mean, I'll play around with my friends but I'm definitely not good enough to be in any tournaments or anything, and I much prefer melee to brawl.

In Melee I felt like I had control over my character, if I told him to jump and attack he would do it in that order in roughly the same amount of time that it took me to input the command. Brawl makes me feel less like I'm playing the game and more like the game is playing itself while I watch. The amount of time I watch my character execute a command versus the amount of time it takes me to input the command is frustrating.
And as for stages, Melee is much better. The Brawl stages either have extremely cluttered foregrounds/backgrounds or are much to big to have a good chaotic "brawl."

And one final thing, it pisses me off that people think playing final destination with no items is fun. If a game includes 50ish items, I want to be able to play with them, even if that does introduce a certain sense of unpredictability and make it harder to consistently win.

edit: see later post

 

[UltiMario]

Did you just say that making a game more random makes it more competitive? I guess short is tall and poor is rich, then.

You've even admitted that you're a casual player, yet you still yell at how competitive players play. Just play your own goddamn way and we'll play ours.

 

[Umby]

FD only with no items isn't competitive.

You have to have Fox only, too!

 

[Umbreon Dan]

items in brawl are retarded, if you get one you're pretty much guaranteed an immediate ko

oh except for that random 12% or whatever chance that the hammerhead will pop off and give your opponent a guaranteed ko instead.........

 

[Iamslow]

Okay so the Master Hand glitch does work but it takes a long ass time and that guide video sucked.

Yeah sorry Gametrailers is kinda hit or miss sometimes

items in brawl are retarded, if you get one you're pretty much guaranteed an immediate ko

The worst part about the items imo is that the Pokeballs almost always turn out to be either Goldeen, Bonsly or Munchlax and it's almost never worth dropping what your doing to get them

Edit: Well I guess Bonsly isn't totally useless but it's kind of a pain in the ass to use him is all

 

[Charro]

And one final thing, it pisses me off that people think playing final destination with no items is competitive. If a game includes 50ish items, I want to be able to play with them, even if that does introduce a certain sense of unpredictability and make it harder to consistently win.

Just like we ban Mewtwo, Garchomp, Double Team, Sheer Cold, Moody, Swift Swim + Drizzle on the same team, Brightpowder, and we don't use the Wonder Launcher mechanic to make Pokémon "competitive" ?

 

[mach3]

Besides, FD is NOT the only legal stage:

battlefield, DL64, yoshi's island, Fountain of Dreams, and there are others you can counterpick on once during a series.

 

[Mentlegen]

I should amend my statement from "competitive" to "fun."

Why I used competitive in the first place is beyond me.

And who gives a shit about pokemon? This is a super smash bros topic.

 

[Umby]

While the base subjects themselves were different, when you used the word "competitive" you referred to something that spans across various plans. It's not a matter of whether Pokemon is relevant to Smash, it's just someone using an outside reference to make a relative example.

Even if you switch it up to "fun," you're talking about something subjective. Maybe FD only IS fun to some people, just in the way having items on is fun for you. Nothing either of those sides can do about the point of view of the other.

 

[lilyhollow]

Did you just say that making a game more random makes it more competitive? I guess short is tall and poor is rich, then.

Randomness does not in itself preclude competitiveness. Ask Poker, Pokemon, and Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo why that is. Granted, I do agree with the Smash community's decision to ban items and whatnot; I'm just not convinced that Brawl is an outright superior competitive game for it.

I do agree that people should stop worrying about how others play the game, though. I've never understood the "how dare people believe that Hyrule Temple/items aren't fun!" mentality.

 

[Innocent Criminal]

Yeah, I never understood these arguments. Do you go and tell people they're wrong to prefer apple pies because plum pies objectively taste better*?

FD only with no items isn't competitive.

You have to have Fox only, too!

I understand that it's supposed to be a joke, but I don't get it. I really don't.
Not only are there 9 tourney legal stages, but FD is definitely not the most common pick.

And about "Fox only"... I'm relatively new to this so I don't know if early competitive Melee was dominated by Fox, but now it's clearly not the case. Just take a look at the results of Pound5, for exemple. The undisputed top player (Mango) mains Jigglypuff. Peach, Marth and Falcon are only A tier, Pikachu is D tier, and Armada beat the crap out of HBox's Jigglypuff (S tier) with Young Link. Yes, Young Link, E tier. No, Fox wasn't banned, keep scrolling down : no Fox player could even get up to the losers Quarters finals. And yes, he is still #1 on the latest tier list, but it really doesn't mean that much.

 

[Umby]

It's an early Melee joke.

"No items. Fox only. Final Destination."

 

[UltiMario]

That's not just an early Melee joke, it's Smash's most popular meme.

 

[Shiny Crobat]

That's not just an early Melee joke, it's Smash's most popular meme.

Hell no, Smash's most popular meme is Isai.

@Umby: how is it early? Only when Chillin was acknowledged as a professional player Fox was considered a top character.

 

[Umby]

"Early" was a poor choice of wording. It was meant in the same sense as "It's a joke from earlier."

 

[internet]

i know no items fox only final destination

don't know isai though

 

[Minwu]

wombo combo is the most popular smash meme prolly

 

[mach3]

Also, judging from pp's AMAZING performance at pound 5, and his consistent skill with falco, i think that perhaps we might be seeing a shift in places for fox and falco.

 

[Umby]

Also, judging from pp's AMAZING performance at pound 5, and his consistent skill with falco, i think that perhaps we might be seeing a shift in places for fox and falco.

You'll run into the same wall that called Marth's tier ranking into question at one point, in how only so many people we doing THAT well with one character. If 3 Falcos were placing top 8 consistently in major tournaments (feel free to call me out- I don't keep track of results), then that MIGHT warrant a shift in placing (though I'm sure most people are comfortable with where Falco is now considering the data that's already there) but just on PP's performance alone, that itself is nothing heavy enough to shake the list to where the character itself should get a 1up. Most people will just say "that's just PP being that much better with his character than the rest of us."

 

[Minwu]

Mango and DSW are the 2 other great Falco mains afaik

 

[Da Letter El]

wombo combo is the most popular smash meme prolly

That aint falco

 

[mach3]

Mango and DSW are the 2 other great Falco mains afaik

Well, mango doesn't really play anymore, i hope he is at genesis 2.

Zhu is a really nice falco (oh zhu, poor zhu, that aint falco...). Bombsoldier used to be the best, but he retired i think. I wish there were more.

 

[UltiMario]

For some reason I remembered about the Perfect Dark Combo video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwDHs6UXgR8

Anyone that has not seen this should watch it. Basically it's like the most showy combo video I've ever seen more Melee lol. Remember to watch through the credits!

You Brawl people go watch it too. This is the speed and tech skill that make people love Melee at its finest.

 

[Umby]

0:45 reminded me that I have:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ND8B-hiNIZ4

In my favorites.