ORAS Ubers Stall w/ Arceus-Dark

[Plulax]

Hey, this is my third Ubers RMT and my second ORAS one. Stall seemed pretty much impossible when Mega Rayquaza was on every team, but after its ban I decided to try it out. I wanted to start with Arceus Dark since he's cool and antichrist and stuff, and build from there, and I've been doing well with this team so far. This team walls quite a lot but not everything, which is impossible. I would love to hear any suggestions, especially with the EVs which are all pretty standard. I'm also quite concerned about Mega Salamence; with Refresh I can't stall him out; with Earthquake, Diancie and Groudon are gone.

Susej (Arceus) @ Dread Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 HP / 80 Def / 176 Spe
Timid Nature
- Calm Mind
- Recover
- Refresh
- Judgment
I love how unexpected and useful Arceus Dark is. I especially love how it can set up on basically every regular Defogger in the tier, particularly Lati@s which are everywhere. ArcDark is also a great switch-in to Mewtwo Y, Giratina-O and Lugia, though I have to be careful of Mewtwo's Taunt and Aura Sphere. If I mispredict and get Low Kicked by Mewtwo X, I'm screwed. Calm Mind can be very threatening, although I don't sweep with it very often. Recover is duh. I love how he can afford to run Refresh over a coverage move because barely anything resits Dark in this tier, it's great stab. Standard Smogon EVs, can't think of any better ones tbh.

much wall (Lugia) @ Leftovers
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 Spe
Bold Nature
- Roost
- Whirlwind
- Toxic
- Substitute / Ice Beam
Although I have CM Arc-Dark, Lugia is the true star of the team and my frequent wincon. It is my most reliable check to the two most dangerous Pokemon in the metagame, ExtremeKiller and Primal Groudon. Roost is obvious recovery, and it's great to shrug off Stone Edges and Ice Beams. Whirlwind is mandatory for phazing scary sweepers. Toxic is the best move ever. I love being able to put Groudon/Kyogre/everything not stupid Gengar on a timer. I used to have Aeroblast in the final spot but you barely ever see M2X. Substitute is the handiest against Primal Groudon, as it's let me prevent Thunder Waves and such several times. Ice Beam's handy against Salamence and Rayquaza, both of which can be pretty tough to handle. Preserving Multiscale is vital for me; I always have to make sure the field is clear before I switch Lugia in, and I try not to use it until ExtremeKiller is sent in. Standard Smogon EVs, Bold to check physical sweepers.

Fabulous (Diancie) @ Diancite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 248 HP / 124 Def / 136 Spe
Impish Nature
- Protect
- Diamond Storm
- Heal Bell
- Toxic
Diancie is my middle finger to opposing Toxics. Having a cleric is mandatory for this team and frees up a slot for Blissey; it's also handy to heal off any Sacred Fire burns. I'm a huge, huge fan of Mega Diancie in this tier and I think it should be used more. Being able to check Lugia, Ho-Oh, Yveltal, and Darkrai is awesome and important. I usually end up leading with Diancie, and when I do I always Protect; this lets me scout and safely switch to mega form. It also lets me stall with Toxic, which is fabulous. Diamond Storm makes uber birds cry. Its chance at raising Defense is overlooked and has helped me quite a few times. I'm using the standard EVs, please let me know if you have better ones. Impish is mainly to check Ho-Oh, as long as I don't switch into Earthquake.

Sunny D (Groudon) @ Red Orb
Ability: Drought
EVs: 252 HP / 56 Def / 200 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Lava Plume
- Roar
There's really no reason not to use Primal Groudon in this metagame, it's just amazing. It's very good at setting Stealth Rock and keeping it there. Earthquake is more reliable for this set than Precipal Blades because I'm more concerned about accuracy over power. Lava Plume is awesome for fishing for burns, and many people forget about his great 150 SpAtk. Roar is primarily used for stopping a GeoXern sweep. Sassy nature is used to mainly deal with Xerneas and Kyogre; it also lets me take some hits from stupid Mega Gengar, who I hate.

fat pink blob (Blissey) (F) @ Shed Shell / Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpDef / 4 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish
- Toxic
- Protect
- Seismic Toss
Since I wanted a full-fledged stall team, a wish passer seemed mandatory. Blissey's wishes are invaluable to Primal Groudon, Gira-O, and Mega Diancie because it gives them a second chance to wall. Toxic is sexy, as said above. I play Blissey similarly with Diancie, as Protect lets me both scout and Toxic stall. Seismic Toss is a must so Blissey's not total Taunt bait. However, because Ferrothorn is a nightmare if Groudon is out, I'm thinking about Flamethrower a tiny bit; it seems pretty useless otherwise though. I used to run Lefties and prefer to use them, but Mega Gengar is a dickwad and Shed Shell helps me (hopefully) switch into something safe. I know I don't have any Defense EVs but Blissey sponges so many special attacks I like all the HP I can get.

Giratina-Origin @ Griseous Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 76 HP/ 252 Def / 136 SpA / 44 Atk
Brave Nature
- Defog
- Shadow Sneak
- Draco Meteor
- Will-O-Wisp
I used to have Latias but it seemed to be my least effective member. I've replaced it with mixed Gira-O at Didoy75's suggestion and it seems to work much better, especially at making my team a bit less Extreme Killer and Mega Gengar weak. Defog is mandatory, especially for keeping Multiscale intact. Shadow Sneak is for Mewtwo, Mega Gengar, ect. Draco Meteor hits quite hard and is very good for keeping Primal Groudon away and killing Mega Salamence. Will-O-Wisp is mainly there for Extreme Killer. The Attack EVs with Brave nature let me 2HKO Mega Gengar and the Defense EVs let me take a +2 Shadow Claw before I burn EK.

Arceus-Dark @ Dread Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 HP / 80 SpD / 176 Spe
Timid Nature
- Judgment
- Recover
- Calm Mind
- Refresh

Lugia @ Leftovers
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 Spe
Bold Nature
- Roost
- Toxic
- Substitute
- Whirlwind

Diancie @ Diancite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 248 HP / 124 Def / 136 Spe
Impish Nature
- Toxic
- Protect
- Heal Bell
- Diamond Storm

Blissey (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpDef / 4 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish
- Protect
- Toxic
- Seismic Toss

Giratina-Origin @ Griseous Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 76 HP/ 252 Def / 136 SpA / 44 Atk
Brave Nature
- Shadow Sneak
- Draco Meteor
- Will-O-Wisp
- Defog

Groudon @ Red Orb
Ability: Drought
EVs: 248 HP / 56 Def / 204 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Lava Plume
- Earthquake
- Toxic

 

[Didoy75]

Hey guy, I really like your team but you should change some little things:
Changing Groudon's Evs for 248 HP / 56 Def / 204 SpD for Entry Hazards and a Sassy Nature if you use Lava Plume.

Latias is better with Draco Meteor instead of Dragon Pulse.

I haven't ever played defensive M-Diancie so I can't help you for this mon.

You should play a pokemon with Will-O-Wisp to stall Steel types (For example changing Latias for Giratina-O)

This set:

Giratina-Origin @ Griseous Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 Atk / 248 Def / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Defog
- Shadow Sneak
- Dragon Tail
- Will-O-Wisp

Everything is classic.

Or this one:

Giratina-Origin @ Griseous Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 76 Spe / 252 Def / 136 SpA / 44 Atk
Naughty Nature
- Defog
- Shadow Sneak
- Draco Meteor
- Will-O-Wisp

76 Spe allows you to outspeed defensive Yveltal but you can put it in HP.
44+ Atk to 2HKO Mewtwo, M-Gengar and Lati@s with Shadow Sneak.
252 Def to tank EKiller's Shadow Claw and burn it back.

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Arceus Shadow Claw vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Giratina-O: 296-351 (67.1 - 79.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 252+ Atk Arceus Shadow Claw vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Giratina-O: 250-296 (56.6 - 67.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Hope it helped

 

[Plulax]

Didoy75, I've tested Gira-O today and it seems to fit much better than Latias. Thanks a bunch
Team edited: replace Latias with Gira-O, changed Groudon to Sassy

 

[Blackraven]

Great, stall team man, my main change is changing Blissey to 252 HP/ 252 Dec, Bold nature. This allows you tank physical hits a LOT better. Sp. Def isn't necessary on Blissey

 

[advanceblog]

This team, like many stall teams, is weak to set-up sweepers that can access Substitute or Refresh such as Salamence-Mega and opposing Arceus-Dark. One way to alleviate this is with Unaware Clefable, who can serve as a wish-passer in place of Blissey. Of course, Clefable is easily worn down, and this leaves you weak against various special sweepers, so you may need to change your core to address this underlying weakness.

 

[Didoy75]

Plulax i believe that Groudon's Nature isn't sassy but careful,relaxed, sorry.
It allows it to always tank +2 EQ from LO E-Killer.

 

[haxiom]

Hey Plulax,

This is a pretty solid team. Few major weaknesses, and I've certainly experimented with similar builds and such, though I scrapped most ones like this. Gengar is a massive issue for this team, as it can remove Lugia which is quite important, as well as Diancie which means no cleric and no bounce. I mean, just in general, this team struggles with Shadow Tag, and there's not much you can do about it. You basically need pursuit if you want to alleviate this, and I've tried a lot of builds to fit it and it's exceptionally difficult. I guess the lack of a Steel-type is a little bit unnerving since it does force you to play really well against Latias/os.

So beyond that inherent weakness (Gengar), there are a few things I guess you could try. In a similar build I have (though some sets are different and the team plays a bit more offensively), I tried experimenting with Psyshock Lugia which can almost KO Gengar after stealth rocks, so if you can get a bit of prior damage on the Gengar you can kill it on the taunt. Also to clarify some things, the 252 HP / 56 Def / 200 SpD Groudon runs a Relaxed nature, and Blissey runs 252 Def / 252 SpD / 4 Spe with the Shed Shell and a Calm Nature.

Good luck!

 

[Didoy75]

Also to clarify some things, the 252 HP / 56 Def / 200 SpD Groudon runs a Relaxed nature

You are right i was wrong

 

[Plulax]

Blackraven, I've changed to the 252 Def EVs but I've kept Calm since it's still my main special wall.
Advanceblog, Salamence is definitely a struggle. If he has Roost and Refresh, Diancie takes care of it fairly easily. If he has Roost and Earthquake, I try toxic stalling with Lugia and hopefully phazing him out. As for opposing Refresh Arceus, that's certainly also an issue. I definitely phaze it out if I can, and if I can't, try to boost alongside it with Arc Dark. Thankfully Refresh Arceus isn't too common. I don't think Clefable would be as effective in general as Blissey, plus I'd have two Fairy types with Diancie and I definitely don't need to add onto my Steel weakness.
Haxiom, I like your idea of Psyshock on Lugia and while it seems kinda useless outside of that, I might test it out. Without Aeroblast I won't be able to check Mewtwo X though. Gengar is definitely the #1 threat to this team. I try to predict its switch-in as much as possible with Arc Dark. I can also finish it off with Shadow Sneak if I've somehow weakened it. Groudon can also take a couple of hits and KO with Earthquake and hopefully not get D-Bonded. I've also changed to Relaxed on Groudon.

 

[Sweep]

sup

This is a pretty solid team, you have every relevant threat in the metagame checked for the most part. I don't like Giratina-O very much on Stall, though, without a phazing move you'll have a hard time checking Lum or Refresh Extremekiller, which in conjunction with SR and a Salamence or Rock Polish Primal Groudon to help wear down Lugia will pose a massive threat to your team. The lack of reliable recovery really hurts it, and though I get that it's a nice answer to Taunt mm2x and forces out Mega Gengar, you already have an excellent check to the former and Gengar can just switch out of an expected Sneak. With that said, it is a good Salamence check when healthy and I see the utility in Sneak and Will-O-Wisp. Toxic and Lava Plume Primal Groudon also looks very threatening since it can status your Lugia and deal good damage to everything else. Also, keep your Blissey EV's the way they are, you'll need the special bulk for Geo Xern. Finally, Refresh CM Fairy Arceus and CroXern will sweep you if they are the last mon standing, especially the latter. I feel as though these issues could be fixed if you fit a CM Primal Kyogre somewhere (RestTalk, possibly over Tina-O), preferably one with enough bulk to take a +2 ExtremeSpeed from any Arceus after SR. 248 HP and 76 Def is all you need to accomplish that goal, rest of your EV's can be placed wherever you'd like but I suggest a fair amount of speed to creep Groudon. This won't help with your Salamence issue, but between Diancie and Lugia you have it covered about as well as any stall can that lacks an Arceus-Rock.

This is one of the better Dark Arceus teams I've seen, nice job. This team also struggles with Mega Gengar, but I can't figure out a way to fit a Pursuit user & Gengar can beat them with prediction / coverage anyway barring Chople TTar.

crap nvm you DO need Defog, diancie can't keep off hazards reliably, but I still say Kyogre would fit nicely somewhere on that team. just cannot figure out where

 

[Plulax]

Sweep, I don't think I could give up Gira-O for Primal Kyogre because without Defog I wouldnt be able to effectively preserve Multiscale. I'm gonna test it out though. You're right about the Blissey EVs, I had actually switched back to 252 HP / 252 Defense but forgot to update it, which I just did. You're completely right about every check you mentioned, particularly CroXern which I'm beginning to discover can be as annoying as hell. Thanks a bunch

 

[willthenoob]

If you're not insistent on using Calm Mind Arceus-Dark, you could perhaps try combining the roles of Arceus-Dark and Giratina-O in using a dedicated support Arceus with Defog and WoW (maybe Rock to deal with Mega Mence? or Dark might suffice as well) and run specially defensive Aegislash with Toxic, Pursuit and Gyro Ball. It's a completely safe switch in to Lati@s, completely walls Mega Gengar that lacks Shadow Ball (and a lot of ones don't, I believe, opting for Sludge Wave and Focus Blast), Pursuit traps all 3 (80 Atk EV to guarantee OHKO on Gengar and Latias is 2HKOed), and is another Xerneas check to boot (especially so now since Hidden Power Fire isn't very viable anymore), taking the pressure off of Blissey to switch in more freely to Primal Kyogre (which doesn't 2HKO if you run max special bulk). It's also not particularly weak to Ekiller, and has the potential to beat Refresh Shadow Claw Ekiller because using Shadow Claw on King's Shield causes Arceus to lose Attack boosts. Aegislash is also a very "stally" Pokemon with Toxic and "Protect", and isn't particularly weak to either of the Mega Mewtwos.

However, this does create problems in that Primal Groudon becomes harder to check, putting a lot of pressure on Lugia. It also does defeat the whole starting point of the team in Calm Mind Arceus-Dark, making the team more passive in general. So this isn't exactly a rate. Consider this is as a sort of food for thought.

 

[sunny004]

Mega Mence, with its anti-stall moves roost and refresh, would honestly need to be KOed rather than stalled out.

To play around it I'd suggest switching from an EQ-weak mon (Diancie/Groudon but dian is the better option) to Gira-O, then will-o-wisping it, then KO it when it tries to use refresh.
Or just straight up using Draco meteor instead of wisp

Hope this helped!

 

[Radio_Active]

Small nitpick: isnt Gira-A bulkier than Gira-O

 

[Didoy75]

Small nitpick: isnt Gira-A bulkier than Gira-O

Gira-A is useless in ORAS imo because it doesn't have a real offensive power and doesn't have Levitate.
It is bulkier but need ResTalk to be a better check to some pokes like MMence or Ekiller than Gira-O and with only 2 possible slots (Dragon Tail, Will-O, Defog) it is outclassed by Gira-O that can check other pokes like PDon.

 

[Plulax]

What I do against Salamence is simply try to D-Meteor it as soon as possible, which is way easier said than done. I've had a Salamence Sub while I D-Meteored and guess what, I lost :D Diamond Storm also works well but I have to pray it doesn't have Earthquake.
Willthenoob I appreciate your suggestion although I'm unwilling to redo my entire team.
However you gave me the idea of considering a Support ArcDark with Defog. I really like Sweep's suggestion of CM Kyogre which I want to just test over Gira-O. I'll update later with how it goes.

 

[RoseColoredCampusLife]

Have you tested rest talk cm primal kyogre over giratina o?

Edit: I saw that sweep said giratina o is necessary for hazard control, but have you tried to fit primal kyogre in this team anywhere?

 

[Didoy75]

Have you tested rest talk cm primal kyogre over giratina o?

Edit: I saw that sweep said giratina o is necessary for hazard control, but have you tried to fit primal kyogre in this team anywhere?

Imo it isn't viable cause even if u use ice beam over scald you are stopped by PDon (easyly taking your hits or hitting very hard with Precipice Blades) and when you are asleep you are very weak to everything because 1) you are slow 2) you cannot take physical hits 3) you only have 1/3 chance to attack.
That's only my opinion but it is probably more viable than I think it is.

Edit: Anyways Gira-O cannot be changed by anything without defog because hazard control is very important in ORAS, especially in a stall team, especially if you play Lugia.

 

[RoseColoredCampusLife]

Imo it isn't viable cause even if u use ice beam over scald you are stopped by PDon and when you are asleep you are very weak to everything because 1) you are slow 2) you cannot take physical hits 3) you only have 1/3 chance to attack.
That's only my opinion but it is probably more viable than I think it is.

I played probably 8 or so games with it and only had trouble with primal groudon and mence. I don't really see anything to replace on the team with primal kyogre. It's really important to keep hazards off the field especially for lugia. I think its fine as is, can't find counters/checks to everything *sigh*.

 

[Plulax]

I tried the team with CM Primal Kyogre over Gira-O and Defog Arceus Ghost over ArcDark, but I felt like the team wasn't as effective. While I'm proud of this team and it's very fun to play, it can be somewhat frustrating to ladder with. I'm not sure if that's a fault of the team or my playing skills, or if it's because stall's simply harder to pull off in this tier.
I've edited to include my team export in case anyone wants to test it, and I've changed Lugia's 4th moveslot to Substitute.

 

[RoseColoredCampusLife]

I tried the team with CM Primal Kyogre over Gira-O and Defog Arceus Ghost over ArcDark, but I felt like the team wasn't as effective. While I'm proud of this team and it's very fun to play, it can be somewhat frustrating to ladder with. I'm not sure if that's a fault of the team or my playing skills, or if it's because stall's simply harder to pull off in this tier.
I've edited to include my team export in case anyone wants to test it, and I've changed Lugia's 4th moveslot to Substitute.

I've played 30 or so games with it and I'm like 22 and 8. I really like it but once two or three mons go down it gets really hard to keep the rest of the team afloat. Maybe I'm too aggressive of a player to be playing stall lol... but I think you did a really nice job with it

 

[Plulax]

OK so I've played this team to death by now and while I love it it has some big flaws. Mainly, Diancie and Aromatherapy Xerneas trample all over this team. I know that I built this team around ArcDark and while it's definitely won me battles...I feel like it can be the weakest link, and I'm going to start testing CM Primal Kyogre in its place (though I'm very unsure about EVs). If anyone supports this or disagrees or has a better idea let me know.

 

[Didoy75]

The Kyogre set I use is the following one:

Kyogre-Primal @ Blue Orb
Ability: Primordial Sea
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 136 HP / 252 SpA / 120 Spe
Modest Nature
- Origin Pulse
- Ice Beam / Blizzard
- Thunder
- Calm Mind

120 Spe allow you to outspeed 44 Spe GeoXern.
Blizzard is an option that 2HKOs Latias and a +1 Blizzard OHKOs Latios (unlike Ice Beam).
You could also try HP Ground to beat PDon.

It is a very powerful wallbreaker but it is very weak to priorities and powerful physical attacks from faster pokemons (like Mewtwo's Psystrike).

Also, Plulax, I recommended you the Giratina-O set but I think that Dragon Tail would be better than Will-O-Wisp (allow you to beat Refresh MMence etc.).

I have some changes to make the team better:

- Ferrothorn -> PDon (better on stall, better check to Kyogre, also set up SR, help dealing with EKiller)

- Arceus-Rock -> Diancie (far better Ho-Oh check, recovery + access to Will-O-Wisp and Defog, good birds check)

- Sableye -> Giratina-O (better than Diancie as a Magic Bounce user on stall, access to Foul Play)

And last but not least (if you want :

- Klefki -> Blissey (Blissey is too passve, Klefki provides Spikes support, which is necessary on your team imo)
Cleric support looks necessary but Seismic Toss/Wish/Heal Bell/Protect is too passive imo.

Sets

Arceus-Rock @ Stone Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 248 HP / 204 Def / 56 Spe
Timid Nature
- Judgment
- Defog
- Will-O-Wisp
- Recover

(56+ Spe to outspeed Rayquaza.)

Sableye @ Sablenite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 124 Def / 136 SpD
Impish Nature
- Foul Play
- Knock Off / Fake Out
- Will-O-Wisp
- Recover

SpD EVs let you tank 2 Fire Blasts from Mewtwo Y, Fake Out is an option to Mega Evolve safely.

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Gyro Ball
- Stealth Rock
- Leech Seed
- Protect

Klefki @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Play Rough
- Thunder Wave
- Toxic
- Spikes

If you choose to use my changes, be careful against PDon because your only check is Lugia. Arceus-Rock checking Salamence, Lugia could only be used to check PDon.

Hope I didn't change too much the team...
Hope I helped & gl with the team !