Resource SS PU Viability Rankings


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Viability Update WOOOOOOOOOO!
It's been four months since our last update, and a fair bit has changed since then! We voted on every single nomination made since the last shift! These are the changes that occurred in addition to some quick explanations for why that may have happened!

New additions:
:comfey: NEW to C
:garbodor: NEW to B+

New drops that happened this month got added. Comfey unfortunately hasn't been anywhere near the most potent threat in the current meta but its Defog sets still justify it being ranked. Garbodor is definitely a solid spike setter but faces stiff competition from Ferroseed, which has a substantially better defensive typing and greater utility. Still a very solid Pokemon however, and one that finds itself in the upper ranks of B.

:jellicent: A to S
:ferroseed: A to A+
:regirock: A to A+
:gallade: A- to A
:sneasel: B to A-
:perrserker: B to B+
:lycanroc: B- to B
:magmortar: B- to B
:eldegoss: C to B
:hattrem: C to B
:shiftry: C to B
:cryogonal: UR to C
:lurantis: UR to C
:morpeko: UR to C
:shiinotic: UR to C

Jellicent has in the last few months risen to the most prominent Pokemon in the metagame. If you've played over this time you're surely aware of its defensive utility, how it can warp the metagame around it and provide a defensive switchin to the majority of the metagame. Its Specs sets are also incredible at the moment with very little reliable defensive counterplay. Without Espeon and Tsareena, Spikes are even better and Ferroseed benefits immensely off of this. Our current lack of removal allows Ferroseed to be such a prominent force in the current metagame. Regirock benefits from the rise in arbitrary physical attackers that plague our metagame, but has over the last several months (even arguably before last shift) risen as the premier Rock-type in the current metagame. Gallade has become more oppressive as an offensive breaker over the last several months, one that can take advantage of imminent Jellicent switchins, and one that overall has very little defensive counterplay. Sneasel has been seen a fair amount recently in tours as well, taking advantage of the fair chunk of balance teams we see in this current metagame. Dark + Ice is such a potent offensive typing in a metagame where we rely on Jellicent, Sandaconda, etc as physical walls and its rise in usage is definitely one that is for good reason. Otherwise the remainder of the rises are somewhat grouped into a few categories. Underrated breakers like Perrserker, Lycanroc and Magmortar all gained a small rise due to their ability to break through current teams much easier than they have in the past. Eldegoss, Shiftry, Hattrem*, Cryogonal, Lurantis, Morpeko are all forms of removal that have taken off as they for the most part allow removal against Jellicent which cannot be understated in such a Jellicent centric meta. Shiinotic is just generally a decent Pokemon that has the amazing defensive typing of Whimsicott with solid recovery and longevity.

:aggron: A+ to A
:gigalith: A+ to A
:mesprit: A to A-
:centiskorch: A- to B
:glastrier: A- to B
:weezing: A to B
:audino: B+ to B
:whimsicott: B+ to B
:froslass: B+ to B-
:haunter: B to B-
:ninjask: B+ to B-
:aromatisse: B to C
:arctovish: B- to C
:aurorus: B to C
:basculin: B to C
:cofagrigus: B to C
:druddigon: B to C
:flapple: B- to C
:galvantula: B to C
:miltank: B to C
:rhydon: B- to C
:sawk: B to C
:rotom-frost: C to UR

Aggron is still an amazing Pokemon but it faces very stiff competition from Togedemaru as a defensive Steel-type, especially with Togedemaru's ability to recover coming in even more handy in such a hazard centric metagame. Gigalith kind of suffers from a similar fate, it gets whittled down very easily throughout the course of a match and struggles checking "both sets" (Charizard + Pokemon that are generally walled by Togedemaru) of Pokemon it would like to. Gone are the days where you could slap this on a team and call it a day. Mesprit unfortunately just isn't as good as it used to be, and as much as I love it, its choiced sets aren't great at the moment. Scarf is very rarely a good option and Specs is mostly outclassed by Articuno-Galar, and doesn't appreciate the rise in usage of Togedemaru. Its Stored Power sets still justify A- rank however. Centiskorch and Glastrier have dropped rightfully as they're both subpar breakers, that while can see usage on some teams, are generally not worth it in comparison to other Pokemon like Gallade or Scyther. Weezing suffers from competition with Garbodor in terms of being a Toxic Spikes setter, but also this VR has not been updated since Tsareena left somehow so that should explain everything you need to know by itself. Whimsicott struggles to efficiently check Ground-types and Scrafty, the two Pokemon you'd use it for, and additionally isn't great at removing hazards longterm, so it's been moved down. Froslass's CB sets have struggled immensely for months now and are mostly outclassed by the faster, better Sneasel. In terms of Spikes setters you'd much rather use Ferroseed or Garbodor. Haunter struggles a bit from the lack of Weezing usage (previously at 33%) which is one Pokemon it could very easily come in on previously and attempt to wallbreak off of. Not only that but c'mon was it ever worth being B rank. Ninjask has Speed but that alone isn't enough to use it over Scyther, a much better Pokemon, most of the time.

A lot of drops to C, so I'll quick fire them. Aromatisse isn't very good off of Stall, which at the moment isn't enough to justify it being higher than C rank. Arctovish while incredibly powerful and definitely a Pokemon I like is very comparable to Specs Jellicent in terms of an incredibly powerful Water-type breaker with a middling speed tier, except struggles even moreso from the prevalence of hazards and hazardstack playstyles. Without incredibly efficient hazard control, Arctovish is barely ever worth it. Aurorus also doesn't benefit from hazards being so potent right now, it can run a pretty cool HDB set with EP to get around Toge but its power levels take a significant hit if you opt for this. Basculin struggles to find its place right now with Jellicent being so prominent, both as a defensive option to take care of Basculin in addition to offensively being comparative as a Water-type breaker. Cofagrigus's ID Body Press sets are mostly outclassed by the faster better Stored Power Mesprit & Uxie, in addition to not appreciating the rise in Jellicent, Ribombee, etc. Druddigon was one of the best Tsareena answers in the game months ago but at the moment struggles has trouble differentiating itself both as a Sheer Force breaker and as a defensive set. Flapple has always been garbage but it was B- for some reason so we've amended that. Galvantula doesn't appreciate the rise in Togedemaru, as well as being a somewhat niche pick to begin with so it's been dropped to C. Miltank can't check the big strong Grass-type that doesn't exist anymore and has trouble justifying usage otherwise. Rhydon is unfortunately not that great at the moment. It gets whittled down way too easily as a defensive Rock-type and its coverage leaves it struggling vs the omnipresent Jellicent and Sandaconda. Sawk struggles to differentiate itself from Gallade, I personally still enjoy it a lot but I can see the arguments here. Rotom-Frost isn't wallbreaking whatsoever in a metagame plagued by Togedemaru, Gigalith, Aggron, etc. It's not a Pokemon one would consider using right now and hence it's been dropped from the VR.


Hopefully we can expect more common updates in the future! I'm glad we finally got this out but yea it definitely has been too long since the last update. I also updated the sprites in the OP to be updated to Gen 8 sprites since a few people mentioned that and they definitely look better than the old ones. Anyway thank you for reading, and I'm looking forward to reading more of your nominations soon!

Thwackey: C -> B

I hope it's not too early to bring this up again, since I just made a nom about this before last shifts, but Thwackey needs to be ranked higher. The value you get from threatening an OHKO on half of our tier's defensive threats with CB Wood Hammer should place Thwackey in at least B tier, alongside breakers like Centiskorch, Magmortar, and Glastrier. Thwackey can break through Jelli and all the rock-types in the tier, cripple switch-ins with knock, and/or pivot with U-turn. The only common mons that Thwackey struggles with are poison-types and steel-types, the former being bulky enough to take CB hammer while still functioning after a knock, and the latter resisting Thwackey's main moveset. (I didn't count flying types there because Guno is knock weak, and Zard/Scyther don't want to lose their boots.)

I didn't want to post a one-liner asking why Thwackey didn't get promoted last shifts, but if there is a reason for it that I missed, I would like to know.
Spiritomb: UR -> C

Spiritomb has been quite out of question due to being seemingly outclassed by other ghost-types, but for the matter of viability I believe it does have both a theoretical niche and effectiveness on high ladder play, particularly on bulky offense teams. It may use both calm mind or will'o/toxic sets, but the latter is completely outperformed by fellow ghost/dark Sableye, and calm mind lacks too much immediate impact for a pokemon without recovery, is slow and vulnerable to toxic. Nonetheless, I believe Spiritomb has many virtues to use a Choice Band set, and which set it apart from competition like trevenant and dusknoir.

Firstly, Spiritomb is naturally extremely difficult to OHKO by PU standarts. Even though it may be wore down by entry hazards, it has the bulk to not be 2HKO-ed by Jolteon, and it does even survive a non-specs moonblast from Ribombee. Of course, lacking recovery, it won't tank many hits, but being able to take 1 or 2 is vital for a slow pokemon, specially if it can hit hard in return. Its deffensive typing is also very effective on giving it switch-in opportunities, granted the total 3 immunities, and it usefully handles threats like Choice Band Gallade and Articuno Galar. It's not a reliable deffensive pivot but, for offensive teams, being able to tank a hit a threaten back is already huge.

And now I get to my point: Choice Band Spiritomb is threatening, as much as it's competition is. It's self-evident why it doesn't make for a wallbreaker as good as trevenant, which has much higher attack and a great secondary stab. Nonetheless, Spiritomb's superior bulk and general deffensive typing make it better at finding switch-in opportunities (even though Trevenant resists Jolteon's Volt Switch, it greatly fears knock off, doesn't handle Articuno-Galar and gets OHKOed by Charizard and Archeops, while Spiritomb threatens the latter and might even KO zard after some chip damage). Also, Spiritomb has access to Shadow Sneak and STAB Sucker Punch, which are the reason why I believe Spiritomb is viable as a mid-term between a wallbreaker, a revenge killer and even a lategame cleaner, differently from Trevenant. But wait: doesn't dusknoir make all I've already said but much better and with greater coverage? Well, it has the same moves, but no STAB on Sucker Punch + worse deffensive typing don't compensate for the 10 points higher on Attack, and Dusknoir having Ice Punch or Earthquake is useless most of the time; also, Infiltrator is much better than Pressure.

Now for the set itself, Poltergeist is mandatory and almost completely risk-free. Unlike NU, I've rarely ever seen any pokemon not use an item to avoid Poltergeist, and, excepting Scrafty and Audino, it hits almost everything relevant for a great junk: here are some calcs:

252+ Atk Choice Band Spiritomb Poltergeist vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Gigalith: 186-219 (49.7 - 58.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Spiritomb Poltergeist vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Togedemaru: 339-400 (101.4 - 119.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Spiritomb Poltergeist vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Charizard: 288-339 (96.9 - 114.1%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO while it's also not immensely threatened back
252 SpA Charizard Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Spiritomb: 150-177 (49.3 - 58.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Spiritomb Poltergeist vs. 252 HP / 220+ Def Quagsire: 193-228 (48.9 - 57.8%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Even if Spiritomb is nowhere fast, it can crutially outspeed mons like Quagsire or Gigalith and pressure them with a 2HKO, while also limiting its switch-ins each time 'cause really nothing takes well a Poltergeist except Regirock and the few resists.
Even if not having the same power as Trevenant, Spiritomb is quite effective in spamming Poltergeist, which does not only help its teammates by heavily damaging oposing walls but also clears the path for itself lategame. And that's where the 2nd and 3rd moveslots come: Sucker Punch and Shadow Sneak. Spiritomb has already no coverage whatsoever so it's gonna be walled by the few dark types in the tier anyways, and having both options, together with infiltrator, is huge for a revenge killer, particularly now that Tsareena is no longer in the tier. First of all, it's an excellent safety net against random sweepers that eventually pop out, specially but not solely Drifblim. Those sweepers aren't really consistent so they won't usually see high ladder play, but checking them realiably is great for an offensive team that doesn't have a great deffensive backbone. Specially, any sub+berry or focus sashes will be neutered, and being locked in shadow sneak is a low price for not being sweeped. Also, both moves hit deceptevely hard. For instance, antileading Jolteon with Spiritomb trades 30 to 40% damage from Volt Switch in favor of dealing up to 97% with sucker punch. Scarf Togedemaru takes up to 94% too. It's also really useful against Archeops, which gets into defeatist range after sucker punch
252+ Atk Choice Band Spiritomb Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Archeops: 211-250 (72.5 - 85.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
but does barely avoid it with the shadow sneak
252+ Atk Choice Band Spiritomb Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Archeops: 121-144 (41.5 - 49.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
All of that considering Spiritomb can afford to take one or two hits from any of those mons.
It does also threaten Gallade, Mesprit, Haunter and so on with any mon weak to Ghost or frail enough to be revenge killed by sucker punch. While being surrounded by heavy hitting mons, Spiritomb might get the chance to pick up a weakened team and clean up late game, specially against opposing offense.
For the last moveslot it may either use toxic or trick (I find trick much better though), so it doesn't get completely neutered by audino but rather actually baits it in and turns the tables on it, and makes stall match-ups much more easy to cope when Audino can't switch between Wish, Protect and Toxic. It can also mess other walls like eldegoss or ferroseed, or blanks eventual Pyukumuku, Shuckle, Corsola-Galar or similars if they are ever used. It's not at all an answer to Scrafty, which is still its main counter, but many times the scrafty switch-in is so predictable that Spiritomb may actually work as a good bait to a double switch.
Still, Spiritomb is extremely niche, but I believe is the best one fullfilling a legitimate role in the metagame, as far as offense goes. It does threaten many key pokemon like Charizard, Articuno-Galar, Togedemaru, Jolteon or even non-Will'o Jellicent, it has the power to wallbreak against defensive staples such as Gigalith or Quagsire and also takes a few hits quite well. It has a great role compression since it's useful both in mid and lategame, for keeping sweepers in check with its priority, checking key pokemon, spamming poltergeist everytime it gets to switch in and even cleaning up. It differentiates itself enough from main competitor as an offensive ghost type Trevenant/Gourgeist and I find it to be much better that Dusknoir (didn't even consider Choice Band Frosslass as competition since that's no more than a gimmick).

Here's a replay, it isn't the best example but I don't usually save replays so it's what i have
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I mean, I'm not playing PU that often anymore, but I think Thwackey should go from C to B-/B. It just has a good matchup with the best Pokémon in the tier, Jellicent, being able to 2HKO it with Grassy Glide. It can also OHKO Archeops while Archeops only 2HKOs back (not factoring in Defeatist!) *I also back the previous post about this*

252+ Atk Choice Band Thwackey Grassy Glide vs. 252 HP / 224+ Def Jellicent in Grassy Terrain: 338-402 (83.6 - 99.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Thwackey Grassy Glide vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Archeops in Grassy Terrain: 261-307 (89.6 - 105.4%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Thwackey Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Regirock in Grassy Terrain: 272-324 (74.7 - 89%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery and Grassy Terrain recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Thwackey Grassy Glide vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Gigalith in Grassy Terrain: 290-344 (77.5 - 91.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery and Grassy Terrain recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Thwackey Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Articuno-Galar: 298-352 (92.8 - 109.6%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
Hello everyone, here are some of my thoughts about the current viability ranking:


- :Ribombee: and :Ferroseed: From A+ to A : Both are currently ranked A+, which is, I think, a bit too high for them. They are very good Pokemon, but I think that they provide less utility than they used to. We have now other options to use Spikes and Aromatherapy, and while having a good Grass check is still as necessary as before, they do struggle a bit more against the aggressivity of the current offensive Grass types in Shiftry and Gourgeist.

- :Silvally-Fairy: (Fairy) From A- to B : Fairyvally always has been difficult to put in builds due to its weakness to hazards. Unfortunately for it, Garbodor’s drop has given us a good Spiker as well as a good Poison type, which comes in addition to Weezing and Qwilfish. I think it marks the end of Fairyvally as an A mon, having to deal with these Poison types on top of facing a good Steel type in every game is a bit too much.

- :Poliwrath: From B to C: Poli can work, but it requires so much support because of the abundance of bulky Water and Grass types that I don't think it's worth to have him in a team at the moment.

- :Froslass: and :Stunfisk-Galar: From B- to C : I won't deny the originality of their respective types, but I don't think they are worth using rn. They are really inconsistent, and you will easily find some better mons who are doing the same job. There are other better offensive Ghost types in Gourgeist, Jellicent and Haunter. Sneasel is doing better as a fast offensive Ice type, and for Stunfisk case, you can just use another Steel type, especially Toge who can also block Volt Switch.


- :gallade: From A to A+ : I was always a bit reluctant about putting Gallade higher than it was, mainly because of its limited defensive utility. But when compared to other A rank Pokemon like Archeops, Aggron and Gigalith, it’s easy to see that, most of the time, Gallade has much more of an impact than the others. I would consider its influence as greatly as Guno's or Zard's ones in both teambuilding and ingame.

- :scyther: From A- to A : Scyther has always been good, but it's only recently that I realized how consistent it was in each and every game. This is what makes it better than the others A- mons like Mesprit and Sneasel who often do less work in some matchups because they get low pretty quickly. From the classic pivot to the SD Brick Break set, I think Scyther is good enough to get a spot next to Ghostvally and Archeops.

- :lanturn: and :shiftry: From B to B+ : Shiftry is indisputably one of the most popular underground breakers atm, it has flaws in his bad defensive typing and poor bulk, but is really threatening each time it comes on the field. Lanturn on the other side is and old meta Pokemon who sees less and less use, but I believe that we were too focused on its Heal Bell / Toxic set to realize that it can also do the same job than Wishiwashi, with a Restalk set. In fact, its only flaw would be to be pressured by Ground types, but it is not something too restrictive in the teambuilder and having a Flying resist is very good for Zard. I would also add that Water Absorb could be its best talent, due to Specs Jellicent and Band Vish being "popular" breakers, but it requires to have an Elec immunity in the back.

- :arctovish: and :aurorus: From C to B : Vish and Aurorus are very good ice type breakers that follows the path of Shiftry. Both abuses really well the common slow defensive cores, one by clicking the same spammable move everytime and the other one thanks to his insane coverage. Vish can also use sub to deal with it's only fears, the bulky waters. Aurorus on his side can have a good match up against offensive teams too, with rock polish as a good 4th move. Both are doing better in the meta than what the C rank leads us to think, and we already have seen proofs of that with popular teams as chlo's.

- :Alcremie:, :ludicolo:, :sawk:, :lurantis: and :comfey: From C to B- : They all are more interesting Pokemon to use than the other C tiers. Lurantis, Sawk, Ludicolo, Comfey and Alcremie all check interesting boxes that makes them unique Pokemon. Not perfect ones, but unique enough to justify their slot in a good team.
Lurantis is a Grass breaker who can be compared to Shiftry, it has less sheer power but has way more utility and longevity.
Sawk is one of the only Pokemon who can be good with a Scarf (and the Banded set is cool too), having a very good movepool that makes it hard to switch into.
Ludicolo is well known, but rain cores can still destroy a good bunch of non-fat teams, the Ice-Water-Grass coverage always has been difficult to deal with.
Comfey and Alcremie are, in my opinion, creative ways to deal with both Scrafty and Gallade, while still providing support to your team. Comfey has a 4MSS, but if you make the right choices in its moveset, it can either be an hasard remover, a defensive pivot, a clearic etc. Alcremie has a very good bulk, especially if you use it with max Def investments. It can pp stall Aggron easily or take 2 Life Orb Zen Headbutt from Gallade. Aroma is also a good option to check the defensive Jellicent, because they can't taunt you, and Cm + Mystical Fire make it a less passive mon in general.

- :Electivire: From UR to B- : It has been talked about in the PU discord, I’m not gonna lie, I didn't know we had this Pokemon in gen8 lol, never saw it in competitive before, but it has some potential! You can use it as you would use a Magmortar, with Sub + 3 special attacks. The value it has over a Jolteon is its bulk, and its access to focus blast. The first one allows you to get a sub on passive mons like Audino, when the second one is enough to break through Ground type mons when holding the Wide Lens item. Some Spikes + Koff support is appreciated, but it really can do great in this meta! Here is a replay about it:
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ship's a'goin' down!
is a Community Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributor
:articuno-galar: A+ -> A: Feel like this one slipped through the cracks in the last update because Guno hasn't been very dominant for a while now, it's still a very dangerous threat you need to be prepped for but it's a difficult fit on a lot of teams and Specs in particular hasn't appreciated our relative lack of good hazard control.

:lycanroc: B -> A-: Lycanroc is insanely dangerous, it can run Adamant at the moment since Life Orb Accelerock wrecks most things it would otherwise outspeed (Charizard, Scyther, Archeops) which means at +2 with a Life Orb it can even muscle past defensive behemoths like Regirock and Sandaconda with some chip. It does require some clever teambuilding since it's a Rock-type that doesn't switch in on Zard very comfortably and it requires some prediction to make the most of it, but anything less than A- I think undersells its threat level. A lot of teams straight up lose if it gets an opportunity to click SD.

:eldegoss: B -> A-: I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but Eldegoss really is just about our best hazard removal outside of maybe Zard. Regenerator actually makes it really annoying to face for teams that rely on hazard chip. It has to make some difficult decisions with regard to spreads, since you both want the bulk to eat hits from hazard removers and the power to muscle past Jellicent, but on the other hand this also gives it a lot of freedom in the spreads and movesets it runs; it's a lot more customizable than one would think. Deserves a spot in the low A ranks for its utility despite my misgivings with it.

:kabutops: B -> C: It's hard to deny at this point that Kabutops just doesn't cut it outside of maybe specific hyperoffense builds or something. Outclassed by Lycanroc as an offensive Rock-type and too frail and easily chipped to serve as a Charizard check in any meaningful way.

:gurdurr: B- -> C: Only refraining from nomming it for UR because on paper it has some pretty neat tools that give it a niche but like, nobody uses this.

:runerigus: B- -> C: Don't know why we moved Cofagrigus to C without also lowering Runerigus, as it has even less of a niche than the former. It's Palossand without recovery which already isn't a great mon to begin with.

:silvally: (Dragon + Poison) B- -> C: Poison is not that useful of a defensive typing right now and Poisonvally kinda lacks the utility to make it worthwhile on nearly all teams. Dragon I think only rose above C because it was an OK Tsareena check on certain teams but it sorta lacks a defined niche atm.

:basculin::carbink::claydol::dugtrio-alola::golbat::morpeko: C -> UR: These seem pretty bad right now, I wouldn't really run any of these except for the novelty perhaps. If people can show why these are worth running (which means more than "I won games with them on ladder" because you can win with just about anything on ladder) that would be appreciated, otherwise I'd say unrank em.

- :Ribombee: and :Ferroseed: From A+ to A : Both are currently ranked A+, which is, I think, a bit too high for them. They are very good Pokemon, but I think that they provide less utility than they used to. We have now other options to use Spikes and Aromatherapy, and while having a good Grass check is still as necessary as before, they do struggle a bit more against the aggressivity of the current offensive Grass types in Shiftry and Gourgeist.
I disagree on both counts. Ribombee's utility will always be indispensable on a lot of teams as long as Scrafty is in the tier, as every other Scrafty check is liable to get worn down too quickly in a meta where games tend to drag on a bit. Moreover, having immediate speed control, a cleric, and a wincon in addition to a reliable Scrafty check is too good to pass up on a lot of teams. Bee is too meta-defining to be any lower than A+. As for Ferroseed, competition with other mons on hazard stacking teams means little when Ferroseed remains the best and most splashable Spiker in our meta by a long shot. Garbodor is its most direct competition and it notably suffers from a lack of defensive utility in the current meta, often causing Garbodor teams to look like they're using Garbodor for the sake of being different from standard Ferro stack rather than because Garb is really that good of a mon. As an aside, neither of them really function primarily or even secondarily as Grass checks, even in the Tsar meta they weren't especially good Grass checks due to Bee's frailty and Ferro's inability to 1v1 Tsar unless it ran Toxic.

- :Froslass: and :Stunfisk-Galar: From B- to C : I won't deny the originality of their respective types, but I don't think they are worth using rn. They are really inconsistent, and you will easily find some better mons who are doing the same job. There are other better offensive Ghost types in Gourgeist, Jellicent and Haunter. Sneasel is doing better as a fast offensive Ice type, and for Stunfisk case, you can just use another Steel type, especially Toge who can also block Volt Switch.
I'm ambivalent on GFisk, in theory it should've gotten better after Tsar and Espeon were both gone but in practice its passivity remains an issue and the defensive typing doesn't compensate for the problems it has. Froslass I disagree on, even if it's true that on more standard teams it's awkward to fit as a Spiker and mostly outclassed by Sneasel and the Ghost types you mentioned as a breaker, it's useful as a fast Spikes lead on hyperoffense teams which I think aren't bad right now. It has enough of a niche to distinguish itself from the mass of C ranks imo.

- :gallade: From A to A+ : I was always a bit reluctant about putting Gallade higher than it was, mainly because of its limited defensive utility. But when compared to other A rank Pokemon like Archeops, Aggron and Gigalith, it’s easy to see that, most of the time, Gallade has much more of an impact than the others. I would consider its influence as greatly as Guno's or Zard's ones in both teambuilding and ingame.
Gallade is incredibly dangerous and kinda impossible to ever be truly prepped for, but I think A+ is a bit much for a mon that ultimately offers little defensive utility and is not too difficult to wear down or play around for numerous teams. I also disagree that it's as influential as Zard or more influential than Archeops, these two mons distinguish themselves by being strong and fast while also having reliable recovery, forcing many teams to have reliable long-term checks to them since otherwise your team gets outlasted. Gallade does not require that kind of prep unless you're running stall or very fat balance.

- :lanturn: and :shiftry: From B to B+ : Shiftry is indisputably one of the most popular underground breakers atm, it has flaws in his bad defensive typing and poor bulk, but is really threatening each time it comes on the field. Lanturn on the other side is and old meta Pokemon who sees less and less use, but I believe that we were too focused on its Heal Bell / Toxic set to realize that it can also do the same job than Wishiwashi, with a Restalk set. In fact, its only flaw would be to be pressured by Ground types, but it is not something too restrictive in the teambuilder and having a Flying resist is very good for Zard. I would also add that Water Absorb could be its best talent, due to Specs Jellicent and Band Vish being "popular" breakers, but it requires to have an Elec immunity in the back.
I agree with Shiftry rising but not so much because it's a breaker. Instead, I find it more useful with a bulky set with Defog/Leaf Storm/Knock Off/Synthesis, compressing hazard removal, item removal, a reliable Coil Conda check, and a Jelli check/Ghost resist in one. While it can absolutely function as a breaker as well, I think those sets take less advantage of what makes Shiftry unique and worth using over the Grass type competition. Lanturn I disagree with, it has a niche but it's notably a lot more passive than Wishi and only really seems worth running on teams that have serious Zard issues otherwise.

- :Alcremie:, :ludicolo:, :sawk:, :lurantis: and :comfey: From C to B-
Agree with some of these but I wanna see more of Alcremie in practice, even with max Defense investment it does struggle vs Gallade. Sawk I just don't agree with because I still don't really see how it distinguishes itself from Gallade, who has an even better offensive movepool and better defensive typing + special bulk. Also disagree with Comfey, the utility set isn't terrible but it loses to basically all hazard setters in the tier. Strongly agree with Ludicolo and Lurantis though and I even think they fit in B rank. Ludi is really excellent on setup spam hyperoffense because of its ability to wear down defensive cores while providing useful setup opportunities vs mons like Quagsire, Jellicent, and Sandaconda, which otherwise are a major roadblock for more physically oriented teams.
Frosslas B- to A-

Frosslas natural speed and respectable bulk with will o wisp can lead to very reliable spikes that can shut down stall mons and defog and it can block rapid spin

its my set

Froslass @ Leftovers
Ability: Cursed Body
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 180 HP / 4 Atk / 88 Def / 56 SpD / 180 Spe
Careful Nature
- Triple Axel
- Will-O-Wisp
- Taunt
- Spikes


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:Jellicent: S -> A+: Jellicent is great, but the meta has simply adapted. Everything that it attempts to counter annoys it, and it's just not as centralizing as a force as it used to be. Charizard can toxic on switch, Araquanid (tentative) can out-stall it with toxic and sub, and Ribombee is using quiver+aromatherapy to destroy these kinds of walls. It also doesn't particularly enjoy Guzzlord entering the tier. It's usage in PUPL thus far is lacking at best.

:Articuno-Galar: A+ -> A: Articuno-Galar is ranked too high for sure. Its wallbreaking potential is unmatched, but PU is a tier of wallbreakers. Seriously, like half of the tier has the word 'wallbreaker' on its Smogon analysis. This is even moreso true with the three most recent additions to the tier, of which Guzzlord it is not a fan of. I'm sorry to continue referencing PUPL, but that will be a trend of this post. It's usage is trailing off near the C-tier Pokemon, and its inability to consistently safely attack or outspeed common threats is wearing on its viability.

:Regirock: A+ -> A: Don't get me wrong, Regirock is very, very good, but is it as good as Charizard and better than Sandaconda in the current metagame? There's stiff competition for this sort of role on any team (just look at the rankings right now and the abundance of rock types at the top), and while Regirock may be a great option, it's certainly not the option. It's lack of recovery makes it tougher and tougher to use in a climate where spikes stacking is getting easier and easier. It's usage in PUPL reflects this, being lightly used in week 1 and almost completely dropped in week 2.

:Togedemaru: A+ -> A: Togedemaru is just lacking options with this meteoric rise of ground types like Sandaconda and Sandslash. Rocky helmet's use in the tier also makes Togedemaru feel like it's withering away quickly. It's still great, and offers strong switch-in opportunities against threats like Eldegoss, Whimsicott, and Mesprit, but it just doesn't have as many options now-a-days, especially with Doublade and Ferroseed taking more of the spotlight.

:Mesprit: A- -> B+: Mesprit is threatening through its intense versatility. Yes, it can run just about any set under the moon, from scarf sweeper, to set-up sweeper, to SR/healing wish support; it has got it all. But it lacks oomph. It doesn't do enough a lot of the time, and its PUPL usage is indicative of that. It doesn't appreciate things like Audino, Eldegoss, and Ferroseed becoming more popular, and it's practically a free switch-in for Araquanid (tentative). Togedemaru and Aggron still continue to annoy it, and its speed tier is becoming less and less impressive as the dichotomy between fast and slow grow ever larger in the tier. Scyther's high usage also isn't doing it any favors.

:Sneasel: A- -> B: Sneasel actually stacks up pretty well against the tier's latest entrants, so this big of a drop might be a little too premature, but the ice type cat-thing just isn't making the impact it needs to in order to maintain an A- rating. Its lack of switch-in opportunities compared to other fast-sweepers of the tier really hurts it, and its trade-off of power vs survivability it has to face with its item isn't kind. It has good uses, but not enough for where it needs to be right now.

:Trevenant: B+ -> B: This thing has quickly fallen from grace. In weeks one and two of PUPL, it has been used a singular time. It's moveset is just outclassed by Gourgeist-S. It's honestly not bad at all, there's just little incentive to use Trevenant right now, especially with the addition of Doublade. Even Froslass offers more as a ghost wallbreaker with spikes.

:Stunfisk-Galar: B- -> C: Stunfisk-Galar is such a tragic Pokemon with a really cool design and ability, but it sort of just falls flat on its face, relegated to being a Spdef wall with no recovery or meaningful status conditions. It serves as a strong counter to Togedemaru and offers a feign attempt at circumventing some special attacking threats like Ribombee, but Sandaconda compresses so many more roles. Ground typing also only serves to weaken the steel type defensively, making it susceptible to would-be useless Pokemon like Whimsicott. It's really hard to justify this mon over practically any other steel type in the tier.

:Lunatone: C -> UR: Lunatone holds almost no niche in PU that I can't see another Pokemon being able to do. The other rock-type SR setters in the tier far outclass it, and if you're trying to fulfill the niche of levitate on a sub-par rocker, Claydol does so with the added bonus of levitate. Its meteor beam power herb set doesn't really do anything that Archeops can't, and it's a mediocre at-best check to Charizard in a sea of strong choices. Future sight support and other 'role compression' simply don't stack up with its stats, especially considering the current popularity of Eldegoss.


:Sandaconda: A -> A+: Sandaconda is currently PU's premier defensive wall. It's insanely splashable, and can reliable cripple many threats in the metagame, including Doublade, Togedemaru, Archeops, Aggron, and Gallade. It may be the tier's best SRer, and that alone should make it rise, but its ability to run the (not as good in my opinion) coil set is a huge plus. Charizard has to be wary of stone edge, and shed skin makes it so reliable against certain other would-be checks. Sandaconda just straight-up walls so many of the tier's lower viability threats, making it very centralizing to the tier's team structures.

:Eldegoss: B -> A: It just keeps getting better and better. From literally being UR at one point to being the premier hazard remover of the tier, Eldegoss offers a reliable backbone to any team. Ghost types in general are lacking use as spin-blockers right now (aside from Doublade's introduction), and it really only fears Gourgeist and Trevenant of these due to their sleep powder immunity. Regenerator is just so incredibly important, and Eldegoss's heavy usage in PUPL speaks volumes to this.

:Audino: B -> B+: Audino has been picking up steam in tournament play and ladder. While stall is surprisingly effective in a tier full of wallbreakers like PU, it offers a lot for non-stall teams. It gives balance and offense teams 1/2 switch pivots into Guzzlord, from which you can act accordingly, and in general threatens many of the tier's special attackers like Articuno-Galar with knock off. This thing is undoubtedly good and moreso struggles from perceptions of ladder play pinning it as a slow/unfun mon.

:Sandslash: B -> B+: Sandslash may just have to be on the verge of reaching the A tiers. This Pokemon is incredible in the current metagame, with insane role compression with knock off, rapid spin, spikes, stealth rock, and EQ. This, coupled with its greater offensive capabilities, allow Sandslash to seriously contend Sandaconda's role. This is sort of a no-brainer in my opinion. It was the 5th most used mon this week in PUPL and is an excellent answer to Doublade.

:Lycanroc: B -> B+: Lycanroc is turning heads and I can see why. I second most of the post above by termi, especially given how much of the tier it can set up on.
A lot of teams straight up lose if it gets an opportunity to click SD.
:Thwackey: C -> B-: Again, I concur with what many of my peers have noted above this post, but I don't know if it's that good, especially considering the new drops.

:Coalossal: C -> B-: Watch out for Coalossal, it's making waves. And by that, I mean four uses in PUPL's first 2 weeks. But hey! that's not bad, and this thing's role compression is pretty neat, especially with how important Charizard and Ribombee are to the current metagame. Coalossal is putting in work and its usage is even on the rise on the ladder, being just another option for spikes. It's certainly better than its C tier brethren.

:Mr. Rime: UR -> C: Fighting/freeze-dry coverage essentially hits all of the tier's greatest walls for super effective damage, and its ability to spin is much appreciated. Mr. Rime doesn't fit on every team, but I see a trend of it carving its niche in this meta. With a speed boost, Mr. Rime effectively becomes a late game sweeper with one of the tier's highest special attacking stats. It gets decent switch-in opportunities on things like Eldegoss, Jolteon, Lanturn, and Whimsicott, and genuinely poses a threat to common team structures (Sandaconda/rock type SRer + Eldegoss/Jellicent).

Two potential Pokemon that I don't feel entirely confident enough to nominate are :Corsola: and :Charizard:. The former is seeing usage in PUPL as the tier's best (???) Guzzlord check with the bonus of regenerator and the latter is a repeat champion of PUPL usage. So much of the tier has to consider Charizard in building, and it feels centralizing enough to be an S ranked Pokemon.
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formerly Nezloe
Araqanuid has been banned so time to talk about the 2 of the new drops I guess.
:guzzlord: --> A+/S.
This mon without a doubt is insanely strong, at first, it seems "ooo defensive dragon dark type maybe it's better off being used as a defensive option for teams" which no one can blame you for thinking however why use it defensively when you can simply run choice band (or another offensive set) and make a tier full of strong wall breakers seem like child's play, there are VERY LITTLE if not none mons who want to take on guzzlord not even fairy types are safe from its almighty heavy slam and even If you do find a way to get in safely on guzzlord it's not the easiest to revenge kill as it can simply switch out and clicking its STAB or coverage threatening you.

Also writing this post kinda late so sorry if it's hard to read but anyway this mon feels almost impossible to switch in to/check and it doesn't help ll that this mon feels bulky as fuck sometimes (which it pretty much is) and in sure others can agree as me and others have talked about this mon and how it feels like almost an unhealthy presence to the metagame due to it's breaking ability. To add on to my previous remarks this mon benefits SO much from pivot moves like uturn and teleport which is just switch-in for free card if you're not careful or not prepped for guzzlord, I also forgot to mention but what makes this mon even more threatening is that it gets beast boost (which seems pretty obvious) which makes this mon even HARDER to handle. Honestly, I haven't watched too much PUPL but I am genuinely curious to see how PUPL handles this mon moving forward, the builds the techs, etc.

:Doublade:--> B/B+
To be completely honest I haven't tested this mon all too much but it seems solid defensively and it's seen some PUPL usage I think and from the looks of it seems to be doing well. I think double has a seemingly slight advantage over over steel types with eviolite and basically completely walling gallade while just in general being super physically bulky, but yeah that's all I gotta say for this mon.

This ended up kinda being kind of a discussion thread ish post more than VR post I guess oh well


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PU Leader
new to s/a+
incredibly powerful breaker, band sets have very little drawback impairing our physical switchins immensely. specs sets struggle vs gigalith and audino but otherwise have an incredibly easy time breaking through. while they have a small amount of checks each, it is almost impossible to determine which it is on preview. not only that but mixed lo sets are very threatening, and defensive sets are also seeing usage. this mon is incredibly versatile and very difficult to deal with defensively. i would like to see it go but this isn't an np thread so s / a+ rank will do​

new to a/a-
doublade is very good rn. great spinblocker with many opportunities to set up a swords dance and wallbreak / clean. great coverage for potential switchins like zard / guzz / scrafty / etc. overall a welcome addition to the tier, but one that has definitely left a mark with an impact that shouldn't be understated.​

a to a+
gigalith is currently the best steel type in the tier, it's the only commonly used somewhat reliable vanilluxe answer. best specs guzz answer, compresses a lot of roles into one mon. it is making its way onto the majority of teams in pupl, got #1 in usage last week which while usage obviously doesn't always equate to viability, people are realising how hard it is to go without right now. this mon is the ultimate spdef glue, it deals with the vast majority of special attackers with utter ease and sets sr vs the vast majority of removal easily. you know what gigalith does.​

a+ to a-
specs guno is unfortunately more mediocre than it has ever been in this tier. gigalith is everywhere, toge is everywhere, guzzlord is everywhere. it is a mediocre breaker right now in a tier with vanilluxe. guno's hdb sets are underwhelming, fsight archetypes have really fallen off in recent months. there was a time where guno was a premier breaker, but that time has long gone.​

a to a-
there's not too much to say about ghostvally. guzzlord dropped, regirock & scrafty are incredibly common. it just struggles more than it ever did before. it's still a super nice mon to use, and it definitely benefits from weezing being more popular again but yea it's definitely been hindered recently.​

b+ to a
wishiwashi went from a subpar zard check months ago to a mon that's seeing more and more tournament usage as time goes on. fits on so many builds, switches into regirock / coil conda / zard / etc with utter ease. helps with vanilluxe pressure. such a good mon right now, and a rating of b+ does not reflect its viability whatsoever.​

b to a/a-
one of our best breakers rn. there's very little that can confidently switch into this other than gigalith, and most of what can otherwise is a subpar fringe viability mon. spdef togedemaru can't even check it well due to taking 40% from specs sets and being forced into a wish/ih 50/50. alternatively taunt sets prove the same dilemma. this mon is insanely good right now.​

b to a-
slasher is seeing a lot of usage rn bc of gigalith being everywhere, bc of doublade archetypes and how it's the most effective removal with that everywhere. overall it's a good spike setter in a meta that still struggles with removal. doublade exacerbated this problem as now eldegoss isn't able to spin vs most things like it could before. spikes are good, slasher is a good setter and decent removal.​

b to c
b was always too high for kabu. there was no point in the last two years this mon ever justified a b rank. there was a point in time where drednaw was seeing usage, not kabu though, never kabu. i have no clue why this mon is so high and how we missed it over all this time. it stands in theory that it'd be a decent breaker with the kinds of mons we have in the meta, and even though we have stuff like jelli/ferro/etc these are things that could be gotten around. in practice this mon hasn't done a single thing in years. we have so many good breakers in this tier, why would i ever unironically run kabutops.​

b to b-
kind of a similar case with poliwrath. as a breaker this mon struggles, but at least it has the ability to actually stand out. a fighting type with a solid secondary stab with solid coverage. one that, with cb, 2hkos jellicent or whatever mon is run to combat its dual stabs. it has versitility as well, being able to run subpar defensive sets or cheese a win with belly drum. but yet again it struggles like kabu. this mon isn't something i'd want to build around right now. it's just depressingly unimpressive. poliwrath isn't worth using.​

b to c
glastrier is just bad. i've tried using it several times over the last few months to no avail. it is so hard to get in, so hard to accomplish anything with. all its sets fall flat. this mon is in the same rank as eldegoss, whimsicott, lycanroc right now LOL. it is just so bad. there are better ice type breakers, both sneasel and vanilluxe are 10x better than it. this mon just isn't good.​

b- to c
runerigus, while a personal favourite of mine, is incredibly hard to justify over other ground types. sandaconda has shed skin rest and an actual speed tier, sandslash gets spikes and spin, palossand has the same exact type but with recovery. while it does have several niches in being able to run toxic spikes and the ability to run gimmicky tr wp sets, these are only slight niches and not ones that justify a rank higher than c in my eyes.​

b- to c
there was a bit where a bunch of us were trying to make this work. this mon desperately needs toxic. it would benefit tenfold from toxic and recovery. but it has neither. it is directly outclassed by spdef aggron other than being a volt immunity, which unfortunately is not something important in the current meta. mediocre steel type i wish was just that bit better.​

b- to c
again, just another mediocre breaker. hard to get in, hard to ever get to function well in a match. struggles against the plethora of phys def mons that plague the tier. pure dark, reliant on knock to break. i would love to see it be good, but it is currently nowhere near that.​

(xl) b- to c/ur
this was initially ranked for otr sets skankovich was high on. these have fallen off immensely, and even moreso now that guzz is in the tier. defensive sets are too hard to justify unless you absolutely want to stop spinners. not ever really worth it unfortunately, as most people would rather run a competent ghost type instead and deter spin for a bit than run this mediocre pumpkin thing.​

c to b-
cool mon! spins vs doublade, sets rocks and spikes and whatnot. even saw usage in pupl as a hazard lead for ho.​

unr to b-
slower weaker vanilluxe with coverage that hits gigalith hard. can run specs, special hdb, lo mixed sets; pretty powerful; ep ohkos toge, wood hammer/leaf storm impair gigalith. on paper almost nothing switches into this. in practice, it is still an immensely powerful breaker with very little holding it back.​

c to unr
all these mons have no place being on any serious team. our c rank is clogged up with a lot of shit and these are by far the worst offenders. i would like to remove them all from the vr.​
Mid-PUPL nominations:

-> A+

Both doublade and guzzlord are incredible and I believe they should both be A+ ranked.

Doublade has the niche of being the best ghost type in a tier that has poor hazard removal. It fits onto many teams very well and instantly applies pressure thanks to its great bulk and swords dance. Only a handful of pokemon actually feel comfortable with switching into it, mainly the ground types in quagsire and sandaconda. Other pokemon like charizard, non choice specs guzzlord, and scrafty aren't reliable answers to it due to the former being hit by rock slide and the latter two unable to OHKO doublade. It is a "fake steel" because it has no reliable recovery, so running another steel type like gigalith or wish passer like audino is recommended with it, but rest is always an option for more defensive sets which allows it to serve a unique niche of being a steel type and spinblocker in one slot.

Guzzlord is amazing in the sense that its dangerously both offensively and defensively. Resttalk sets are great defensively and knock off + heavy slam allows it to exert a decent amount of offensive pressure. On the offensive side, choice specs doesnt have great switchins, the most common ones are probably gigalith or audino but those still get chunked; the same goes for choice band where the main pokemon comfortable with switching into it and not getting obliterated is like sandaconda, weezing, and quagsire. Overall great mon and addiction to the tier.

-> S

I believe both gigalith and charizard should be S ranked.

Gigalith is the primary defensive wall in ths tier to the point where I would say it defines the metagame. You can answer so much in one slot with it, it's a steel type that checks fire types which makes it extremely unique. I joked in the PU cord earlier that the tier would fall apart if gigalith was banned because I think that is 100% true. In one slot you answer ribombee, vanilluxe, scyther, charizard, mesprit, galarian articuno, and you get a stealth rock setter in a tier that is dominated by pokemon weak to rocks. No pokemon offers the same amount of compression that gigalith does and putting it at S rank would be a good indicator of that.

Charizard is similar to gigalith except it's from an offensive standpoint. You need to have a charizard answer in this tier; offensively flying + fire STABs hits so much and toxic puts a timer on the pokemon that arent dented by those two. It's also a defogger, something that is valued ever since tsareena left which made hazard removal tough to fit on teams. There isn't much else to say here, a good combination of offensive firepower and defensive utility makes charizard one of the most defining and splashable threats in the tier.

-> A

Scyther and wishiwashi are two pokemon that have been getting a lot more usage. Both have really good roles within the tier and are huge threats to prep for, the former offensively and the latter defensively.

Scyther's usage in PUPL should be self explanatory when looking at its offensive presence. Despite not offering a lot defensively, it's excellent at ripping apart teams with the right support. Knock off + dual wingbeat + u-turn is going to be a general annoyance to virtually any team, and the main answers are forced to rest (gigalith, regirock, doublade), or still get generated on momentum-wise (togedemaru, aggron). It's an obscene breaker, and the teams that have been used which center on scyther as the main progress maker like Luthier's week 3 team is a good indicator at how good this pokemon is at doing its job.

Wishiwashi is really good at enabling offensive threats in a tier that's overwhelmed with them. At the moment, it's incredibly hard to prepare for all breakers thanks to how many stacked threats there are in the tier, and wishiwashi pivoting makes them a lot scarier to deal with. It has insane bulk, a good neutral defensive typing, and low speed, which lets it switch into many pokemon like gigalith, sandaconda, charizard, and garbodor, then generate momentum. The role it fills is very unique but allows it to shine very well while fitting on many teams.

-> B

I feel that both these pokemon are pretty slept on.

Cinccino is really cool as a breaker at the moment. Its fast enough to outspeed scyther, and it has the additional ability of being a normal type, allowing it to come in against doublade's shadow sneaks as an offensive pokemon and dismantle it with encore. I've really been enjoying encore cinccino recently, it deals with typical answers like scrafty, doublade, regirock, and sandaconda with some aggressive play, but even without encore u-turn + knock off is always going to be great in a generation that is dominated by heavy duty boots. Overall really underrated pokemon that deserves more usage.

Lurantis is one of the better offensive grass types. Knock + superpower + leaf storm is great coverage and hits the whole tier for good damage, and the last slot can go to synthesis or defog depending on which the team wants. Eldegoss as removal is extremely passive so lurantis taking on a more offensive approach is really helpful. Much like cinccino, it's very slept on at the moment in my opinion.

-> B/B-

Garbodor is garbage. Despite spikes archetypes being incredibly recyclable in SS PU, garbodor finds itself in a dirty spot as a setter that is beat by sandslash while being very passive against a multitude of threats in the tier that aren't hit by gunk shot. Even with hazard removal being trash at the moment, garbodor still finds its situation a wasteland as a hazard removal that is passive and quickly whittled down. Other spikers like ferroseed, froslass, and even coalossal are more efficient at setting spikes and pressuring, which leads garbodor to find itself usually being thrown away from teams for better options.

I agree with chloe's nominations with jellicent and vanilluxe being the main ones. Jellicent is still dangerous but nowhere as defining as charizard or gigalith. Vanilluxe basically forces u to run gigalith to not implode to it, not necessarily a bad thing but it just shows how strong it is. Togedemaru gets ovewhelmed eventually thanks to wish taking 2 turns and blizzard doing already hefty damage to it. Don't have enough experience with the unranking C ranks so take this with a grain of salt but I do feel carbink, claydol, aurorus, jynx and throh should stay ranked.

Hope reading this post was enjoyable!


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PU Leader
hey vr update here! not going to write super extensively on each mon, so we can save time and get this out sooner, but if you're wanting more reasoning for a certain pokemon moving you can find arguments for the changes above! if you do have any questions, please feel free to hit me up in the pu discord, and i'd be happy to answer any questions you may have.

new to a // great spinblocker, good defensive and offensive presence, isn't absolutely perfect bc it isn't a traditional steel type because it requires additional "steel-type support" and is usually paired with gigalith because of this. overall a great mon though that definitely justifies a rank.
new to a+ // incredibly dangerous offensive presence, with multiple oppressive sets. lacks coherent counterplay, defensive sets are solid too. band / specs / mixed sets all have a lot of merit, and all have different checks. great breaker in the current pu metagame.

unranked to b- // like a slower vanilluxe with coverage. benefits from the prevalence of gigalith as a vanilluxe check, which abomasnow can abuse. has ep for togedemaru & aggron. not as good due to speed and power, but definitely one worth ranking nonetheless.
b to b+ // can pivot in on vanilluxe's blizzard, checks specs guzzlord, benefits from these seeing usage in the current meta.
a+ to s // charizard has always been an outstanding pokemon in pu. ever since it dropped, and its biggest competition in talonflame left the tier, charizard has made its way onto a very large portion of the meta's teams. right now, it benefits from gigalith being the most common charizard check, as it can whittle this down fairly easily with toxic over time. there's barely any clefairy / archeops / lanturn being run, and the wishiwashi sets people are using tend to be mixed defensively for the most part. charizard is a goober atm.
c to b- // cool offensive pivot with an amazing speed tier and solid coverage. bullet seed, knock off, triple axel, rock slide are all good coverage options to begin with when there's a lack of steels being run right now, but then even mixed focus sets have seen usage in swiss. justifies b-.
b to a- // some of our best removal, that even though it doesn't appreciate doublade's omnipresence atm, still is able to muscle through it and then continue to be a nuisance and spin spin spin
a to a+ // best zard answer atm due to its ability to also check vanilluxe, which is otherwise fairly hard to deal with without gigalith. vanilluxe's potency right now is the main factor here however.
c to b- // solid removal, solid offensively and defensively. can justify usage over eldegoss due to spinblocker doublade being everywhere, b- suits it well.
b to b+ // offensive powerhouse that has really taken off the past few months. once doublade / sandaconda are dealt with, it can muscle through a lot of the balances we see at the moment. cool mon.
b to a- // if you've paid attention to ss pu recently in pupl, you'll have noticed how good slasher is rn. it's one of the better removal options with doublade and gigalith everywhere. sets spikes efficiently, especially when paired with doublade to spinblock eldegoss. woo slasher woo.
a- to a // scyther is the ultimate progress maker, knock u-turn knock u-turn. it gets strong dual wingbeats, which very little can switch into. appreciates a lot less iron barbs toge to deal with. another pokemon that's seen extensive shift in viability over the recent months as people have discovered it.
b to a // broken ice cream. outstanding breaker with very little reliable defensive counterplay. togedemaru has to win 50/50s to answer it, aggron takes way too much from blizzard or the occasional water pulse. the only common reliable check we have is gigalith, which is something you want to hear as a special breaker. pair vanilluxe with toxic zard, and have a field day haha.
b+ to a // solid glue mon that switches into an abundance of common mons. slow pivoting option allows breakers with subpar defensive typings to get opportunities easier e.g. vanilluxe / lycanroc. has really "popped off" in recent months.

b- to c // mediocre physical breaker that relies on its main stab being knock off. a move that loses power after its first use, and enables pokemon like sandaconda, regirock and the omnipresence of fairies to take advantage of it.
a to a- // the spdef set (the only set it ever runs anymore) has extensive trouble competing with gigalith at the moment. why would i use this pokemon over gigalith right now. it's not that bad, just hard to justify, as is the case with a lot of mons dropping.
a+ to a- // really fallen off in recent months, specs sets really don't appreciate our current hazard situation, and hdb sets have trouble justifying their usage with how ineffective they are. this mon was so much better in tsareena meta when we had good removal. now it's just a pathetic bird with no friends.
c to unranked // relic of drampa meta, this mon hasn't seen usage since scl last year, and should've been removed a long time ago.
c to unranked // poor spinner that is mostly outclassed by sandslash. poor removal that would really benefit from recovery or heal bell or something, but as it is it just accomplishes nothing in most matches. cosmic power sets are outclassed by mesprit & uxie.
c to unranked // impossible to justify, doesn't functionally work as a defensive steel type and our offensive steels like perrserker and arguably doublade accomplish so much more.
a+ to a // difficult to justify when running sandslash + doublade is a lot better in general right now. will probably fall more as time goes on if meta trends continue.
c to unranked // mediocre breaker with hustle. unreliable as hell. one i could never personally justify bringing to a serious match. dd ripen liechi sets are kinda cool even if difficult to set up, but at the end of the day they are just a gimmick that don't deserve a rank.
b- to c // another spike setter that has fallen off as a result of there being better options. offensive sets (cb) aren't good and haven't been in quite a while. froslass is unfortunately just a niche mon right now.
b+ to b // another spike setter that has fallen off as a result of there being better options. garbodor is just not very good as a spike setter unfortunately. it also especially doesn't benefit from our two most common fighting types beating it 1v1. defensive poisons don't have much place in the current meta.
b to c // while this mon on paper looks okay due to its strong power level and decent defensive stats, in practice it fails to ever really get in, and to ever really break with doublade / jellicent / regirock all being common picks.
c to unranked // doesn't accomplish anything. had a slight niche in the tsareena meta as a potential check for the standard sets, but since then has not really seen any usage and for good reason.
(xl) b- to unranked // offensive sets (cb/otr) don't appreciate guzzlord being everywhere and being a complete wall, in addition to itemless toge being used to check scyther & sneasel and in turn also hindering gourg. while it interestingly spinblocks our 2 most common removal options, it just has a very hard time justifying its usage over doublade which while blocking our spinners also accomplishes much more.
b- to c // initially rated for its ability to remove against our common setters. now it's more a question of why i would run this over sandslash?
s to a+ // not the centralising force it was a few months ago, and a lot of that has to do with the prevalence of eldegoss, guzzlord, and whatnot. meta has just adapted.
c to unranked // mediocre breaker that can't benefit off its water-type immunity due to both u-turn wishi and ghost move jelli bonking it hard.
b to c // subpar breaker, very little reason to use it as it offensively doesn't accomplish much over pokemon like lycanroc. still has a niche due to its water typing which allows it to bonk sandaconda unlike lycanroc, but overall just plain old mediocre.
c to unranked // mediocre breaker that has trouble accomplishing much in a meta full of so many resistances and better breakers.
c to unranked // mediocre breaker that has trouble getting through charizard / ribombee / toge / ferro & a bunch of others. it's a fun thing to use, just not one you probably should use, over another set up sweeper, if you want to win.
c to unranked // poor offensively and defensively. while it technically walls zard and guno, there are much better mons that accomplish this. this mon has never been used in a serious game ever to much success.
a- to b+ // it's still okay! just a little bit worse, especially with doublade being present and guzzlord situationally switching into choiced sets. this drop reflects that.
c to unranked // idk why this mon was even ranked in the first place. on paper it spins vs jelli which was all the hype at the time but we had eldegoss lol.
b to b- // cool conceptually, cb sets are still decent to some extent especially with lariat 2hkoing jelli, but just suboptimal as a breaker. not one that deserves to be in the same rank as magmortar & shiftry.
a+ to a // still a great mon just not worthy of a+. not something you're dying to use in a vanilluxe heavy meta.
b- to c // don't wanna use this over other better ground type ever. sandaconda / sandslash / even palossand are a whole lot better. while this one has toxic spikes and gimmicky offensive sets, it does not deserve anything higher than c.
c to unranked // unfortunately struggles to justify usage over other fairies, especially when this one is slow and bonked by sets with pjab that are common at the moment.
b- to unranked // hasn't really had a good showing in tours ever, even on ladder this thing just isn't used. all silvally formes can probably be used to some extent, but this is not one i'd go out of my way to, ever.
a- to b // sd silvally formes in general aren't amazing right now, but fairy also has the added issue of doublade now to deal with. unfortunately not too good right now.
a to b+ // this has nothing to hit guzzlord with, which is seeing a lot of usage. in addition to its previous issues, and the lack of pokemon like weezing to sub on and abuse, silvally-ghost isn't the offensive powerhouse it once was.
b- to c // this is sorta a relic of the tsareena meta, it was a nice offensive mon then with work up and also had defensive sets that were sorta okay. nowadays, while it can still offensively pressure a fair bit, and has defensive opportunities with ribombee's continued prominence, it just isn't the mon it once was.
b- to c // a steel type that doesn't really accomplish much due to its lack of toxic, recovery, etc. if it had toxic and shore up i'm sure it'd be a different story. unfortunately not a pokemon that you have a reason to run.
a+ to a // doesn't check vanilluxe well, so running it basically means you're struggling vs vanilluxe from the get go. still a cool mon but yea.
Octillery should go from UR to C. I was working on a Trick Room team and I needed a Trick Room abuser with good coverage moves. Octillery was the best option I found and it worked quite well. It has a good Special Attack stat, low speed tier which is great for Trick Room and while it has no access to boost moves, it doesn't need them. This is the set I created using Sniper + Scope Lens:

Octillery @ Scope Lens
Ability: Sniper
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Focus Energy
- Hydro Pump / Surf / Water Spout
- Fire Blast
- Energy Ball / Ice Beam / Sludge Wave

After one Focus Energy and thanks to Scope Lens, every single hit will be critical. With sniper this supposes a 2.25x boost, which is great for just a turn of setup. Unlike the Choice Specs it doesn't lock you into any move and unlike the Life Orb it doesn't lower your PS, while hitting considerably harder (A Life Orb set would also be possible, but I found the Sniper + Scope Lens to work better). Additionally, it ignores Calm Mind/Cosmic Power/Amnesia boosts because hits are always critical and Parting Shot or Memento doesn't cripple it. Octillery's movepool is just excellent, it has a lot of useful coverage moves. I found the combination of Hydro Pump, Fire Blast and Energy Ball to work the best. It can OHKO almost everything in the tier but very few Pokemon, namely Audino, Druddigon (If not running Ice Beam) and Lanturn (which can be OHKOed after hazards damage). And none of them can switch-in safely without being severely damaged. Onced setted up, Octillery is a terrifying Trick Room abuser which can easily break through teams.

As a Trick Room water type abuser, Octillery hits harder than specs Jellicent and Wishiwashi, while having a far better movepool and not being locked, at the expense of one turn setup:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Jellicent Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Audino: 238-282 (58 - 68.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Wishiwashi-School Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Audino: 337-397 (82.1 - 96.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Sniper Octillery Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Audino on a critical hit: 414-487 (100.9 - 118.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Sniper Octillery Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Audino on a critical hit: 306-360 (74.6 - 87.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Some calcs:
252+ SpA Sniper Octillery Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gigalith in Sand on a critical hit: 426-504 (113.9 - 134.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Sniper Octillery Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Jellicent on a critical hit: 405-477 (100.2 - 118%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Sniper Octillery Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 150 SpD Poliwrath on a critical hit: 390-462 (101.5 - 120.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Sniper Octillery Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 100 SpD Wishiwashi-School on a critical hit: 300-354 (102 - 120.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Sniper Octillery Energy Ball vs. 248 HP / 16 SpD Pyukumuku on a critical hit: 330-390 (105.4 - 124.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Sniper Octillery Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eldegoss on a critical hit: 327-387 (100.9 - 119.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Sniper Octillery Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Aggron on a critical hit: 756-891 (219.7 - 259%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Sniper Octillery Energy Ball vs. 88 HP / 248+ SpD Lanturn on a critical hit: 360-426 (87.1 - 103.1%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Sniper Octillery Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Scrafty on a critical hit: 339-400 (125 - 147.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Sniper Octillery Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Scrafty on a critical hit: 252-297 (75.4 - 88.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Sniper Octillery Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Scrafty on a critical hit: 343-405 (102.6 - 121.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Sniper Octillery Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 150 SpD Articuno-Galar on a critical hit: 330-391 (102.8 - 121.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Sniper Octillery Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Silvally-Fairy on a critical hit: 400-472 (101.5 - 119.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
To sum up, the only Pokemon that can not be OHKOed are Lanturn, Uxie and Audino (without Water Spout), Druddigon and Appletun (without Ice Beam) and Ludicolo and Alcreamie (without Sludge Wave) and Regice is able to stomach one Fire Blast, but it is 2HKO. It does not have any safe switch-in that I'm aware of, just prediction based changes trying to waste Trick Room turns.

Replays (I wasn't saving them while playing, I'll edit the post with more as I play):
Octillery destroys 4 popular mons in the tier: Gigalith, Jellicent, Charizard and Scrafty -
Not my best combat ever, but it showcases how Octillery can take a few hits and still break through the enemy team -
The drawbacks:
* It needs Trick Room. Octillery's poor speed only allows it to use it's excellent movepool in Trick Room.
* Knock Off completely cripples the set, fortunately nothing should survive a hit to use Knock off, but Audino which is unable to switch-in without taking a lot of damage.
* Octillery can't switch into anything, especially if running Water Spout (Not the best choice anyways, it's there just for comparison purposes) so it needs to be brought in safely by Uxie's U-Turn or Beheeyem and Claydol's Teleport, all of them can set up Trick Room first and Uxie and Claydol can also use Stealth Rock.
* It needs one turn for set up, which is a problem because it bulk is mediocre, but when brought by pivoting you usually have one free turn anyway.
* Protect: it wastes valuable Trick Room turns.

I have written a complete analysis for this set which I would like to contribute (there's currently no sets available for 8 gen) but I need Octillery to be included in the Viability Ranking first.
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Bulky wincon with a great defensive typing, Swords Dance and unresisted stab combo+ CC for Scrafty. Does have flaws including mediocre special bulk and no reliable recovery but wish passing from Audino and the rare Aromatise can help.
252 Atk Scrafty Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 88 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Doublade: 116-140 (41.2 - 49.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+1 252 Atk Scrafty Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 88 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Doublade: 174-206 (61.9 - 73.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
232 Atk Doublade Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Scrafty: 204-240 (75.2 - 88.5%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Speaking of Audino...
Great defensive mon, passing wish while regenning of hits. The PU Blissey but with regen if you will and pairs well with some of the better mons, notably the ghosts (Doublade and Jelli) due to normal and ghost's synergy as well as heal bell helping against status whittling down Jelli or halting Doublade.


is a Community Leaderis a Tiering Contributor
PU Leader
Meta has shifted a bit since the last slates and a lot of stuff looks out of place. Here are some noms to try and fix that up!

:gigalith: A+ -> S Gigalith has dominated the metagame these past few months and probably should have been S a long time ago. It's THE rocker in the tier and it's very difficult to justify running anything else over it. Its impact on the meta is so great that offensive teams will gladly sacrifice one or two pokemon to kill it off as its ability to wall half the tier is so disruptive for those builds. It also enables sandslash to be both one of the best offensive and utility pokemon in the tier. The tier revolves around Gigalith rn and I really don't see an argument for it not being S.
:sandslash: A- -> A+ Since the last slate LO offensive slash with leech life has emerged as one of the most threatening sweepers in the tier and the fact that it pairs so naturally with the best pokemon in the tier Gigalith is a huge boon for its effectiveness. The bulky spikes spin set is still as good as ever too and the guessing games it creates early on with regard to which set it is make it difficult to play around. I think there's a solid argument here for S but A+ is good enough for now
:archeops: A -> A+ Meteor beam archeops is really good and after having good success in PUPL, it's now seeing great success in SCL too. A super good option for offensive builds as it provides a great speed tier, a zard check, rocks and can also chip gigalith heavily to enable other sweepers on the team.
:eldegoss: A- -> A The most splashable hazard removal the tier has to offer. It beats out all other hazard removal options in the tier by actually having longevity not named rest in regenerator + to an extent leech seed. It has its flaws in its passivity which prevents it from going A+ but its splashability and longevity in balance matchups, provided with the utility options it has just makes it too good for A-.
:centiskorch: B -> B+/A- With regirock virtually non-existent there are basically no defensive answers to centiskorch being run anymore. That combined with some useful resistances and knock off to remove boots makes it one of the better balance breakers the tier has.
:tangela: B -> B+ Tang is pretty cool rn and is one of the few defensive answers to sandslash in the tier. It also does well into doublade and most scrafties and regenerator is generally a broken ability.
:weezing: B-> A- Toxic spikes are proving to be really strong in this meta and weezing is the tier's premier setter. Beating the two best spinners in goss and slash is great for it and it always provides fairly decent defensive utility.
:magneton: B- -> B+ Idk how magneton ever ended up in B- it's wayyyyyy better than the likes of haunter, jolteon and ninjask. A super strong breaker with little counterplay in addition to a good speed tier and quality resistances that make getting it in multiple times a game feasible. It's only true answer in togedemaru is terrible and has essentially been phased out of the meta which also helps its placing.
Unranked -> B- I was a bit of a hater on this when it first popped up in PUPL but I must admit it has won me over a bit. Grass rock fire coverage gets the entire tier and being able to immediately smack gigalith and slash is great. Also being able to set up on goss and avoid seed / powder is great. Still struggles to get past doublade but I think it has enough merit to be ranked.
:thwackey: C -> However good you think grassy terrain is / B+ Grassy terrain has been popping off in SCL and thwackey is what enables it. How good this thing is basically dependent on how good grassy terrain is in the meta, and rn it's looking very strong.

Some other potential noms that I don't want to write out
:whimsicott: B -> B+
:vikavolt: B -> B+
:cinccino: B- -> B

There's also been a million different mons showing up on HO and terrain cheese that have been doing well but I don't really know where to start with ranking any of them because it's hard to tell how good some of this stuff is. Like there's no way Uxie should be B+ while Comfey is C, they're basically the same mon at this stage but idk where you draw the line with these or how you go about ranking them

Finally, I'm not brave enough to nominate Ribombee to S but maybe someone else will do it for me (gum wink wink)

:charizard: S -> A+ Zard is still amazing but it's just not the force it once was (I'd argue that it had already fallen off by the time it went S). Gigalith is everywhere and archeops has gotten better. Sandslash has made it so that games don't tend to go on as long anymore so toxic zard can't break teams long term the way it used to. Even in the longer games, the main toxic target Gigalith runs rest anyway so all you're doing is making it click rest a turn or two faster. Still a great mon but no longer S worthy.
:ferroseed: A -> A- Super hard to justify over slash as a spiker and it's always been a fairly mediocre rocker. I still think the rest + toxic set is really good and it definitely has a place in the meta, but it's not an A mon anymore.
:regirock: A -> B- This thing genuinely borders on unusable I'm half-tempted to nom it for C. I genuinely can't think of any reason to use it over Gigalith or Aggron, they just outclass it in every way at this stage. It used to be a nice way of putting pressure on as a rocker with body press but it can barely do that anymore with doublade everywhere and there's very little value in it being so physically bulky when it loses to the tier's three best physical attackers in scrafty, doublade and sandslash. I know this seems like a huge drop for a mon that was in "A" but I genuinely just don't see any reason to use this, and its single use and 0 wins through 4 weeks of SCL supports this. TL;DR Regirock is bad and should feel bad.
:sandaconda: A -> B+ Coil is still kinda cool and it's nice that it beats bu scrafty, the big problem though is that grass types have been made mandatory by sandslash and that means coil conda can never make progress. Rocks is kinda meh mainly because it means you can't run gigalith, but also because it has no way of getting around eldegoss. 3 uses and 0 wins in SCL paints a pretty clear picture on this one as it has very much fallen out of favour.
:togedemaru: A -> B+ I still sorta like toge and don't think it's completely useless but it just doesn't match up into the current meta well. The things it wants to wall aren't being used and the things that are being used like slash and doublade take advantage of it. No longer relevant enough to be an A mon.

I'm also super in favour of thinning out the B and C ranks. PU isn't a meta where a huge range of pokemon are viable and I think the VR should properly reflect that. Having all these mid ass mons in B ranks just inflates things and it makes it harder to understand the tier.

:perrserker: B+ -> C This was bad before doublade dropped and now it's really bad. Haven't seen anyone use it seriously since blade arrived and I think we were far too generous only dropping it to B+ previously.
:mesprit: B+ -> B Just not as good as the other B+ stuff.
:palossand: B -> Unranked Does anyone actually use this thing? I've been playing PU for 4 months at this stage and I genuinely don't think I've ever seen this used on a real team. I guess you could argue it sort of spin blocks into sandslash? Idk I just really don't see this thing having any viability in the tier and I think its complete lack of usage in any meaningful game is evidence of that.
:garbodor: B -> B- Meta just isn't offensive enough for this to be good. Either you play HO and it gets burst early or you play balance and it doesn't have the longevity to hang with better setters like sandslash and weezing. Just not the meta for garb rn and I think it needs to drop further.
:hattrem: B -> B- I like the hat but it's a little bit harder to justify now that regi is dead and slash is the main spiker instead of ferro. Could see this being C tbh
:magmortar: B -> B- B- might even be too generous this thing's just not worth it
:lanturn: B -> C Lanturn sucks I'm sorry
:clefairy: B- -> C Clefairy also sucks
:haunter: B- -> C Idk why I'd want to use this thing
:lurantis: B- -> Unranked This was cool when it had recovery. Shame that gigalith took that away.
:ninjask: B- -> C A worse scyther that also doesn't have the tool that made scyther good (knock off)
:articuno: B- -> C / Unranked What does this do again?

And how about we clear all these unmons out of C:
:appletun: Bee food, unviable
:cryogonal: Vanilluxe is gone, Unviable
:gurdurr: Was always unviable
:kadabra: Was always unviable
:kabutops: :ludicolo: Rain is unviable
:miltank: Vanilluxe is gone, unviable
:persian-alola: Was always unviable
:stunfisk: Was always unviable
:throh: Was always unviable
Defensive vallies have always been bad and water is like 5 vallies removed from even being worth considering, unviable + steelvally + ratio
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Banned deucer.
Love the post Shane! I’m not sure it’s worth it to argue whether or not :ribombee: is S right now considering the newly added Silvally-Steel, who, unlike Doublade, has a spdf stat, is going to hamper it very badly in the coming weeks. It will be interesting to watch French Community League and FCL to see its impact on the metagame as we round out gen 8!


on my ex pack
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quick thoughts b4 action on doublade or w/e tiering action

:ribombee: this mon absolutely deserves S more than Charizard. There is not a single matchup where it is useless. Covering speed control and having solid typing defensively despite it's fragility is pretty great. as for Silvally-Steel being added to the tier, it's kinda whatever since it needs Rest to not lose to it in the long term and isn't very threatening in general

:kabutops: :ludicolo: should stay ranked on merits of lead sr and offensive RD sets

:miltank: i think it's viable enough to stay ranked, even without Vanilluxe. it has a place on stall teams and more niche balance/bo teams. i kinda rate it the same as clef atp

:gigalith: still good, hard to justify using aggron/regirock over it like ever, but i don't think it deserves S rank as much as Ribombee. in SCL people have been adapting to punish gigalith teams with the rise of thwackey. also mons like centi and magneton punishing it harder than before. would probably S- rank it but would lean toward A+ otherwise

:doublade: should rise to A+, absurd win rate in SCL and can get insane mileage in a game if you manage its health properly

:jellicent: drop to A-, it's difficult to fit and doesn't deserve to be above the other defense waters, wishiwashi especially is easier to fit than it now. could just drop to A but eh, Doublade meta really makes it hard to win with this thing, nobody giving it a chance in SCL rn either

:silvally-ghost: (ghost) use doublade on your offensive team!! get more out of using silvally grass on ho rn too tbh

:stunfisk-galar: I'm assuming C rank gets cleaned up next update but still, this mon deserves better than the slums. it is difficult to fit grounds and psychic resists and this mon is both. the coverage and utility moves can be enough to make up for being so weak, don't love the mon myself shown worth in SCL though
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ship's a'goin' down!
is a Community Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributor
A good number of noms have already been made but adding just a few more.

:gallade: A -> B+: Always was kinda difficult to build with but made up for it because of how dangerous it was, with Doublade in the meta it has gained a very solid and very common check that makes it a less reliable breaker. Togedemaru usage being way down doesn't help it much either, as going into Doublade on a forced Wish was one of the better opportunities for it to get in without relying on VoltTurn. Doesn't belong in the A ranks.

:vikavolt: B -> B+: Good both as an offensive pivot which checks Doublade decently well and as an Agility + Throat Spray sweeper, the latter set appreciating the fact that Togedemaru dropped off the face of the earth so you can run something other than Mud Shot if you feel like it. Also takes advantage of Grass types like Eldegoss and Tangela very well atm.

:rotom: B -> C: idk I never see this mon anymore at all and it never was very common to begin with. Difficult to justify, moreso even than Haunter tbh since at least the latter takes advantage of passive mons like Weezing and Eldegoss with its typing (and also spinblocks the latter).

:froslass: C -> B-: Hyperoffense is better so Froslass is better. Nomming it to B- but maybe B can be justified, same goes for the two noms below.

:swoobat: C -> B-: It certainly could go up a little with Grassy Terrain HO catching on. Its speed, ability, and coverage makes it a more favorable Stored Power sweeper on offensive teams than passive mons like Uxie or C*mfey.

:hitmonlee: C -> B-: Also one of the better Terrain sweepers.

:gourgeist: + :trevenant: B+ -> B/B-: Always feels weird to nom these guys down because a lot of teams don't really have Poltergeist switchins, but they already were awkward to fit on teams as Grass types that didn't really beat Coil Conda reliably and now they are also Grass types that fail miserably against Sandslash. Meanwhile, as Ghost types they face competition from Doublade. They shouldn't be so bad but when do you ever fit these mons on a team?

:manectric: UR -> C:
55 | Manectric | 1 | 1.67% | 100.00% |

:articuno: B- -> C / Unranked What does this do again?
Articuno is always an option on stall because of its natural bulk, ability, and useful utility moves like Defog and Heal Bell. Stall isn't very good rn though so I think a drop to C would make some sense.

:lanturn: B -> C Lanturn sucks I'm sorry
I used to agree but I've come around to it. The kind of team it fits on isn't amazing right now so maybe a drop to B- could be justifiable, but honestly RestTalk is one of your best options to deal with Zard on Zard-weak balance that doesn't run Gigalith and it acts as a useful pivoting partner for breakers like Centiskorch. Do not think it is outclassed in this regard by Wishiwashi because the latter can't reliably serve as a Zard check by itself. Electric immunity can also be clutch of course but is less relevant.
things i think should go down in the vr

Jellicent A+->A-/B+ really isn't anywhere as good as it used to be, both sets struggle in the current meta.

Ferroseed A ->A- still has some good qualities mainly as a steel that dosent mind comfey at all(comfey is seeing alot of play idk if i think its good tho)

Perrserker B+->C blade p much stops it hard, it does have ok niche in punishing quags as teams main steel anwsers i.e seed bomb

Hattrem B ->B- it defo has some fun sets and can spread para really good, stuff like slash and scrafty kinda bully it too hard for me

Frosmoth B -> C never liked the moth(i like as a mon but not meta wise) Vally-Steel dropping only made it worse

Weezing B -> A- weezing feels as solid as ever, tspikes are probably the best they've been in a while, whilst having 2 very relevant abilities, ngas punishes all the regen spam ive seen as of late. (one up nom despite what i said)

Lurantis B- -> C/unranked i like lurantis in theory but with its main recovery being shot down by sand and that it desperately needs knock off in this meta means its forced to run some awkward move sets

Ninjask B- -> C despite scyther leaving jask does not fill the void at all(not really comparable other then typing tbh) blade really just stops it in its tracks.

Poliwrath B- ->C with specs jelly being gone for the most part it loses a lot of its defensive utility, it does have a good match-up vs the gigaslash teams but hates eldegoss(thinking mainly about its defensive set here, its offensive sets get worn down p quick)

Stunfisk-Galar been seeing talk about this, and i cant agree with any change in its vr rank, now i haven't seen all that many scl games but the ones i have seen have been p mid(not like i can talk <:^/ )

i eng good
Disagree on Perrserker

252+ Atk Choice Band Tough Claws Perrserker Crunch vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Doublade: 158-186 (49.2 - 57.9%) -- 94.9% chance to 2HKO

It can quite comfortably handle Doublade, but you give up some coverage for something obviously (like every move choice does...)

Iron Head also does ~20%, which is far from negligible on a Pokemon that has no healing and can't run boots.


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(super, rest seem worse)



everything else is below B-... but such a low rating means less here than a more normalized tier like an ou -- offensive mons in particular can just beat a lot of teams at matchup due to how limited defensive tools tend to be (ie, regen/good removal/bountiful typings)








(super, rest seem worse)



everything else is below B-... but such a low rating means less here than a more normalized tier like an ou -- offensive mons in particular can just beat a lot of teams at matchup due to how limited defensive tools tend to be (ie, regen/good removal/bountiful typings)
I think you need to actually explain why


stars will stop where they are
Hi, Really have been getting into this tier and wanted to share some Pokemon ive been using and where i think they should be on the VR
Im actually surprised this isnt on the VR yet. Honestly, as a late game sweeper, Smash Tirt is terrifying to face, ive especially found it good on Webs teams w/ Iron head Doublade / Togedemaru to break Fairy types. The Utility set isnt that bad either. I honestly believe it could be a B- tier, or at least be a C.
This is actually my favorite mon in the tier. I like how you can feely set up on stall / BO teams with Sub and just Quiver Dance and win games flat out once Gigalith / Regirock / whatever steel is gone. It basically can set on every special attacker in the tier if its not like Charizard. B+ imo
:Sandslash: :Gigalith: :Lycanroc:
These three are clumped together to talk about sand in general. imo its just dominates the meta so much and is a constantly good playstyle no matter what matchup you have, Plus all have decent defensive utility and are just plain powerful. While idt Gigalith deserves a raise Sandslash and Lycanroc 100% do.
its kinda hard to find it worthwhile imo. As a Rock type, you compete with Gigalith and Regirock, which are both just better overall and have a better defensive typing into the meta. As a Steel-Type, Togedemaru is better because you can pivot with it and has reliable recovery. Honestly your really only running aggron nowdays if you want a steel that can rock aswell. Deserves a notch down from A-


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:gigalith: > S: No other wall is this good / versatile. The best teams use gigalith from stall to sand offense because it’s just that good. Besides being basically the only consistent Charizard counter, Gigalith is just overall very bulky on both sides. No team should go without a Charizard counter in the first place, and I found it hard to justify replacements over Gigalith. Then there’s the whole angle with sand teams, or even just Sandslash, that proves how Gigalith fits on any playstyle.

:magneton: > A: This thing is arguably the best wallbreaker / Choice Scarfer available rn. If you load up into a team without Togedemaru, you are already at a huge advantage. Otherwise, there’s Lanturn (god awful) and Gunfisk (increasing in popularity, I nom this to B+ for being a solid wall + Mag counter), and until Mag counters become mandatory on every team (they practically should at this point), it needs to sit in the A ranks.

:lycanroc: > A-: Very hard to switch into. Meta trends show how broken this thing can be. Could even rise to A+ if things keep going in its favor.

:abomasnow: > B+: Abomasnow can pretty easily net KOs from Blizzard spam alone, but it also has the coverage to be completely unwallable with Choice Specs. That, along with the utility of denying sand + Leftovers, makes me believe there should be more teams trying out everyone’s favorite Christmas tree.

:steel-memory: > B+: It’s okay. I don’t think it’s found its place at the top of the metagame yet.

:grass-memory: > B-: Assvally lol. Lmao, even. I wrote an analysis on what this does + I think there’s a spotlight on it too. Let's getter done people. Yeeeehaw assvally on the PU VR LETS GO!!

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