Metagame SS OU Metagame Discussion Thread v7 (Usage Stats in post #3539)

[Schpoonman]

A few things from this page I've noticed.

Bringing up very untested Pokemon like Jellicent in pure theorymon is discouraged; in fact, it's outright banned in most VR threads that I've read. Jellicent does have an interesting cross-section of typing, Ability, and movepool, but its statline still leaves a lot to be desired, and it's telling that it effectively needs a double immunity just to reliably switch-in when Toxapex just does the job better the vast majority of the time. If you guys wanna provide some replays of it doing work, and more than just shutting down Urshifu, I'll change my tune. Finally, using a low-tier Pokemon just to hard counter one arguably centralizing threat isn't good news for that Pokemon, it's bad news for the threat that required such a specialized answer, and also the person using the low-tier 'mon because then you're playing 5-6 if they don't carry that threat. See: Thundurus-Incarnate in early BW with Lanturn rising up out of the woodworks to answer it.

Moving stats around like that does not translate quite like I think you think it does, BM. I used Scrappie's .bulk command (chat the bot on Showdown, type ".bulk <insert Pokemon>"), and while Scizor and Durant do have very similar physical bulk, that's just their physical defensive statlines being similar. Comparing Drifblim (150/44/54) and Mew (100s) shows that even with that combined 204 on Drifblim's special side, Mew has significantly larger bulk all around.

 

[Morkal]

A few things from this page I've noticed.

Bringing up very untested Pokemon like Jellicent in pure theorymon is discouraged; in fact, it's outright banned in most VR threads that I've read. Jellicent does have an interesting cross-section of typing, Ability, and movepool, but its statline still leaves a lot to be desired, and it's telling that it effectively needs a double immunity just to reliably switch-in when Toxapex just does the job better the vast majority of the time. If you guys wanna provide some replays of it doing work, and more than just shutting down Urshifu, I'll change my tune. Finally, using a low-tier Pokemon just to hard counter one arguably centralizing threat isn't good news for that Pokemon, it's bad news for the threat that required such a specialized answer, and also the person using the low-tier 'mon because then you're playing 5-6 if they don't carry that threat. See: Thundurus-Incarnate in early BW with Lanturn rising up out of the woodworks to answer it.

Moving stats around like that does not translate quite like I think you think it does, BM. I used Scrappie's .bulk command (chat the bot on Showdown, type ".bulk <insert Pokemon>"), and while Scizor and Durant do have very similar physical bulk, that's just their physical defensive statlines being similar. Comparing Drifblim (150/44/54) and Mew (100s) shows that even with that combined 204 on Drifblim's special side, Mew has significantly larger bulk all around.

Oh I didn't mean in general regarding the point about stat distribution, I'm saying the differential between the stats is small enough to allow for some similarities to be drawn between what Durant can do physically (this also comes from quite a bit of testing on my part) compared to Scizor; Drifblim and Mew have a MUCH higher differential. Also in regards to Jellicent, I've tested it in Gen 8's OU metagame in the past, and while I don't know if the original Jellicent recommender tested it, I have, and that's why I defended that post the way I did.

Personally, I'd be more than happy to share replays of my testing with Durant and other lower-tier Pokemon that I recommend in here, just as long as there's an active effort to discourage people from simply dismissing niche options because of OU's frankly (and I really don't want to say it, but I will), non-inclusive and gatekeepy culture regarding fresh ideas (it's what made me take a break from OU after Gen 7 completely dispirited me).

While theorymon is a problem and does not contribute to a discussion in as conducive of a way as testing, combatting the problem of being auto-dismissive of new ideas in the metagame is (in my view) a far more serious problem that should be addressed first, as it discourages new players from entering Smogon's meta and trying to tool around with new options (when I started playing competitive back in late Gen 4 / early Gen 5 times, I remember almost exclusively sticking to another battle client because of this mentality turning me away from Smogon for a long time). The recent interest around Arctozolt is a great example of what happens when people experiment with new ideas, I remember Arctozolt was initially described as "Sub-UU" by some people at the beginning of Gen 8, and now two DLCs and hyper power-creep in, people are discovering powerful uses for it here in OU.

 

[Endrism]

This may seem a little odd, but I've been using this guy in OU lately as a late-game physically solid hard-hitting cleaner and it's been working wonders.

DURANT

Durant @ Leftovers
Ability: Hustle
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Hone Claws
- Iron Head
- First Impression
- Stomping Tantrum​

Hustle really is a fantastic ability, as it skyrockets Durant's already serviceable Attack stat of base 109 to titanic levels. Hone Claws boosts Durant's attack even further and offsets the accuracy drop of Hustle. While this is already common knowledge, we need to specifically look into what makes Durant feasible in modern OU (and why it can in some cases be better than Pokemon such as Scizor or Kartana, who occupy similar niches).

Durant Strengths:​

- Durant's base 109 speed is actually a crucial tier (shared only with Kartana), and it naturally outspeeds all non-scarfed Pokemon except Dragapult, Hawlucha, Tapu Koko, Tornadus-T, Weavile, and Zeraora.
- Durant's ability Hustle makes up for the gap between its own Attack stat and Kartana's, while Durant has a superior typing for what it needs to do (Durant resists Ice and is neutral to Fighting, while Kartana is neutral to Ice and has a Fighting-type weakness for example). Durant has a far better Steel-type STAB move and gets access to STAB Priority in First Impression, which Kartana does not.

252 Atk Hustle Durant First Impression vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Rillaboom: 422-500 (123.7 - 146.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO (Lol Grassy Glide can Glide Off somewhere else)

- Durant has access to Ground coverage which Kartana and Scizor would both absolutely kill for to deal with threats like non-scarfed Heatran, G-Slowking, Toxapex, and Zeraora.

252 Atk Hustle Durant Stomping Tantrum vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 412-488 (106.7 - 126.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Hustle Durant Stomping Tantrum vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Slowking-Galar: 260-308 (65.9 - 78.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 Atk Hustle Durant Stomping Tantrum vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Slowking-Galar: 390-460 (98.9 - 116.7%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

- Durant has access to additional moves that you could use depending on your team's specific needs such as Crunch, Rock Slide/Stone Edge, Superpower, X-Scissor, Skitter Smack, and Endeavor. In addition to this, Durant gets access to some surprising support moves such as Thunder Wave.
- Durant's Physical bulk is actually on par with Scizor's (Scizor has 70 / 100 while Durant has 58 / 112, which basically means all they did was add 12 to Durant's defense and subtracted 12 from its HP) meaning that it can stomach Physical hits in a pinch and then clap back with its own fantastic speed stat.

The reason I've been using Leftovers is that I've found that in OU, the damage boost from Life Orb does not reach benchmarks that would be relevant over the additional longevity, and in the rare cases where LO would matter at +1 (G-Slowking), you really can get it worn down enough to where Regenerator wouldn't save it, unboosted still grants it an easy clean 2HKO, so it can't switch in freely. Just as a heads up, Durant EXTREMELY appreciates Cleric support, or even terrain support from something such as Tapu Fini (who is actually a great partner for Durant).

Give the ant a try! I promise you won't be disappointed.

Overall I believe Durant is definitely underrated, but it's also still a niche pick. Its bulk isn't really comparable to Scizor because of how abysmal it's SpD is. Plus Durant needs to set up a Hone Claws unless they want to risk Hustle being Hustle. I would compare it more to Kartana with a different typing. Attack with Hustle included is actually slightly higher than Kartanas, but with accuracy and need for setup being a big factor I believe it should be used with care.

 

[Double Electric]

While theorymon is a problem and does not contribute to a discussion in as conducive of a way as testing, combatting the problem of being auto-dismissive of new ideas in the metagame is (in my view) a far more serious problem that should be addressed first, as it discourages new players from entering Smogon's meta and trying to tool around with new options (when I started playing competitive back in late Gen 4 / early Gen 5 times, I remember almost exclusively sticking to another battle client because of this mentality turning me away from Smogon for a long time). The recent interest around Arctozolt is a great example of what happens when people experiment with new ideas, I remember Arctozolt was initially described as "Sub-UU" by some people at the beginning of Gen 8, and now two DLCs and hyper power-creep in, people are discovering powerful uses for it here in OU.

I mean, if there is a shortage of people testing new things in the metagame and you think you have a better idea, then you ought to celebrate that rather than covering your ears and running off to a different battle client. Because that is your opportunity to abuse this new and effective thing on the ladder before anyone else does. Because the simulator doesn't care what people think. If a strategy works in practice, or doesn't work in practice, the data won't lie, and you'll have plenty of games to show off supporting your claim.

If you think Jellicent is some godly, unrealized niche in the meta worth using over Toxapex as an Urshifu switch in, then go ahead and try to abuse it. And once you start abusing it, people will take notice. If it is effective, the new strategy will take root in the metagame as more people try to abuse the tactic that beat them. If it does not take root, then maybe it wasn't as effective as you thought it was.

I can tell you that there is no shortage of people testing out new things on Showdown--people are always experimenting to try to gain an edge. The metagame can be volatile from week to week for this reason. The difference is that people are actually using these experimental strategies on the simulator rather than theorizing about it before trying it on ladder and realizing that it doesn't offer any real niche over more established options.

 

[Morkal]

Overall I believe Durant is definitely underrated, but it's also still a niche pick. Its bulk isn't really comparable to Scizor because of how abysmal it's SpD is. Plus Durant needs to set up a Hone Claws unless they want to risk Hustle being Hustle. I would compare it more to Kartana with a different typing. Attack with Hustle included is actually slightly higher than Kartanas, but with accuracy and need for setup being a big factor I believe it should be used with care.

Oh absolutely, which is why I used more Kartana comparisons in my post and stated that the comparisons to Scizor's bulk were on the physical side.

I mean, if there is a shortage of people testing new things in the metagame and you think you have a better idea, then you ought to celebrate that rather than covering your ears and running off to a different battle client. Because that is your opportunity to abuse this new and effective thing on the ladder before anyone else does. Because the simulator doesn't care what people think. If a strategy works in practice, or doesn't work in practice, the data won't lie, and you'll have plenty of games to show off supporting your claim.

If you think Jellicent is some godly, unrealized niche in the meta worth using over Toxapex as an Urshifu switch in, then go ahead and try to abuse it. And once you start abusing it, people will take notice. If it is effective, the new strategy will take root in the metagame as more people try to abuse the tactic that beat them. If it does not take root, then maybe it wasn't as effective as you thought it was.

I can tell you that there is no shortage of people testing out new things on Showdown--people are always experimenting to try to gain an edge. The metagame can be volatile from week to week for this reason. The difference is that people are actually using these experimental strategies on the simulator rather than theorizing about it before trying it on ladder and realizing that it doesn't offer any real niche over more established options.

Except back then I did test these things on Smogon, I just got tired of being flamed 24/7 so I migrated over somewhere else for a couple years before coming back. If you read my previous posts along with that post, you should get that I'm not supporting theorymonning, I'm saying that it's just nowhere near as much of a problem as the gatekeeping regarding experimentation that's been a staple of OU's culture for a long time.

 

[pulsar512b]

Oh absolutely, which is why I used more Kartana comparisons in my post and stated that the comparisons to Scizor's bulk were on the physical side.



Except back then I did test these things on Smogon, I just got tired of being flamed 24/7 so I migrated over somewhere else for a couple years before coming back. If you read my previous posts along with that post, you should get that I'm not supporting theorymonning, I'm saying that it's just nowhere near as much of a problem as the gatekeeping regarding experimentation that's been a staple of OU's culture for a long time.

I wouldn't say there's much gatekeeping in the community towards experimentation in general, but specifically towards things that are:
1. completely new/unused pokemon
2. by unknown (read: dont have a badge or won 5 tournaments or some shit) users

Is this a bad thing? yeah, probably
is this a thing? yeah

 

[Keem]

This thing is the hardest counter to Urshifu-R in the game. Immunity to both STABs and W-o-W (with stab scald) also makes it a decent physical check as it can force easily predictable switches.

Advert (Jellicent) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 116 Def / 140 Spe
Bold Nature
- Taunt
- Will-o-Wisp
- Recover
- Scald

This set has enough speed to outrun 0 Tran, and the rest is dumped into HP and Defense.

Holy shit ty for posting this,I was going to make a post about how good this mon is how it can be called the worse tapu fini because it is a great switch in to shifu but sucks vs weavile but then I got sick so i couldn't. I would like to share a team i built with my homie scorbunnys
Regular Balance jellicent team ig:
https://pokepast.es/bdbb041bc7fe3341
(Team may have some troubles vs volc)

I'm gonna list some benefits of using this mon as I dont feel the need to list reasons why it can also suck I mean like Cmon man.

For one this mon can absorb hits from shifu and then will-o on any other physical attackers that even dare to think about trying to switch in on it,a great example of this would be weavile as its one of the many physical attackers that hate getting burned. Two,really great recover user I mean like man getting your lefties knocked off (this obvs depends on the mon youre going against bc theres no way youre staying in on a knock from weavile) and then recovering and then going for will-o halfing their attacking and then just clicking recover again is just a great especially for a mon like jellicent (also thank god pursuit isnt in the game lol) But Yeah I think thats all the niche the mon has due to the fact we are in a hail metagame and specs freeze bitch kyurem,all I have for now though and plus this was my first post here! Might post some of my thoughts but that's all for now.

 

[Finchinator]

It's cool people are sharing their novel ideas in this thread. With that said, there are some checks to this and some checks to responses to these posts. For starters, it is best that doing this is left for scenarios where there is a lot of evidence backing the argument (see: replays. elaboration on teambuilding niche, etc). On the flip side, there is no point in trying to gatekeep people's contributions or talking down upon them in a condescending fashion just because you do not agree with their hot takes.

 

[Mimikyu Stardust]

I would like to talk about some 'HEAT' sets i have found and made, not all of this was made by me, so i'll be crediting them by their showdown nick. i have more than 2 sets i want to show, but i want to keep this first post short

first one is made by me



Secrets And (Arctozolt) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Slush Rush
EVs: 204 Atk / 76 SpA / 228 Spe
Naive Nature
- Charge
- Bolt Beak
- Blizzard
- Low Kick

this is simple. charge makes bolt beak into electric explosion which can ohko things like melmetal, umbreon. tapu koko and torkoal after hazard! and make ferrothorn second guessing themselves even more than before if they want to switch into an Arctozolt!
(plus the spdef raise is nice to tank stray shadow balls and even a scarf blacephalon flamethrower from full)
the evs are copied from Ox's hail, but with charge over rest or substitute

CALCS
204 Atk Arctozolt Bolt Beak (340 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Torkoal: 253-298 (73.7 - 86.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
204 Atk Arctozolt Bolt Beak (340 BP) vs. 200 HP / 0 Def Melmetal: 325-384 (70.4 - 83.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
204 Atk Arctozolt Bolt Beak (340 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Ferrothorn: 176-207 (50 - 58.8%) -- 74.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
204 Atk Arctozolt Bolt Beak (340 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tapu Koko in Electric Terrain: 330-389 (117.4 - 138.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Blacephalon Flamethrower vs. +1 0 HP / 0 SpD Arctozolt: 266-314 (82.8 - 97.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

second one was made by bowszn



Weavile @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Knock Off
- Poison Jab
- Psycho Cut

now i know what youre thinking, no ice moves? on a weavile? hear me out, at +2 no hippo, lando, and pult dare go near it.. psycho cut let it deal with Urshifu, toxapex and even mons like blaziken which dies at +0. poison jab can anti lead Alolan ninetales, +2 killing tapu fini, and can hit quite hard because you dont have and ice move. you still do what a weavile should do with knock off and its pure existance. Here's one replay that i can find where the psyco cut coverage worked (i didnt save any replays where i used poison jab, but trust me its common)

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1400157116-nro5310bcn2yveruuka45lb3tw9vm5ppw

and heres some calcs

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Weavile Psycho Cut vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Urshifu-Rapid-Strike: 411-484 (120.5 - 141.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Weavile Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 227-269 (74.6 - 88.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Weavile Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 192+ Def Tapu Fini: 322-380 (93.6 - 110.4%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO

 

[Double Electric]

Holy shit ty for posting this,I was going to make a post about how good this mon is how it can be called the worse tapu fini because it is a great switch in to shifu but sucks vs weavile but then I got sick so i couldn't. I would like to share a team i built with my homie scorbunnys
Regular Balance jellicent team ig:
https://pokepast.es/bdbb041bc7fe3341
(Team may have some troubles vs volc)

I'm gonna list some benefits of using this mon as I dont feel the need to list reasons why it can also suck I mean like Cmon man.

For one this mon can absorb hits from shifu and then will-o on any other physical attackers that even dare to think about trying to switch in on it,a great example of this would be weavile as its one of the many physical attackers that hate getting burned. Two,really great recover user I mean like man getting your lefties knocked off (this obvs depends on the mon youre going against bc theres no way youre staying in on a knock from weavile) and then recovering and then going for will-o halfing their attacking and then just clicking recover again is just a great especially for a mon like jellicent (also thank god pursuit isnt in the game lol) But Yeah I think thats all the niche the mon has due to the fact we are in a hail metagame and specs freeze bitch kyurem,all I have for now though and plus this was my first post here! Might post some of my thoughts but that's all for now.

The team that you posted has a Jellicent without Taunt. Taunt is the most important tool that separates Jellicent from Toxapex. If you're not using a Taunt + Wisp set on defensive Jellicent, then you have almost no reason to be using it over Toxapex. Taunt + Wisp lets Jellicent stallbreak somewhat against a lot of passive Pokemon such as Ferrothorn, Corvinight, defensive Clefable, Blissey, and even Toxapex itself. It also gives you an option for avoiding Toxic from things like the trapper Heatran that you're using Jellicent to check. Granted, by using Taunt you now have to justify using Jellicent over Tapu Fini. However, this is maginally easier than justifying Tauntless Jellicent over Toxapex.

 

[Morkal]

Morpeko

"You're lookin' a bit gobsmacked by all this. You must be from some small country town, is that it? I'm quite the same myself."
- Marnie

(Buckle up everyone, this is probably the longest post I've made on this forum, or about competitive Pokemon in general, but I have a lot to say about Morpeko and the nearly two years I've spent using it in OU)
​

BASE STATS:​
HP: 58​
Attack: 95​
Defense: 58​
Sp. Atk: 70​
Sp. Def: 58​
Speed: 97​

Morpeko is basically Nintendo's latest attempt to create the next Pikachu (and they were not even remotely subtle about it in this case). While Morpeko is undeniably adorable, his tier placement (ZU) and below-average stats would lead one to believe that Morpeko is a strictly bottom-tier Pokemon. However, Morpeko has just the right set of tools (and additional tools that other Pokemon would kill for) to carve out an exciting niche in OU that no other Pokemon can fill. I've been using Morpeko pretty consistently on various team types since the beginning of Generation 8 and I've found that it's actually gotten better with the DLCs thanks to how its surroundings have changed. Morpeko is by far one of my favorites, if not my absolute favorite niche Pokemon to use in the OU metagame and very rarely disappoints me.

DISCLAIMER:

THIS POKEMON REQUIRES CAREFUL PREDICTION PLAY FOR ITS NICHE TO BE UTILIZED, AND THUS CANNOT BE EASILY PUT ONTO A TEAM. IT REQUIRES CAREFUL CONSIDERATION AND ACTIVE THINKING ABOUT WHAT THE OPPONENT WILL SEND IN AND REQUIRES CAREFUL TEAMBUILDING PREP FOR WHAT PARTNERS IT WILL HAVE.

First, let's take a look at some of Morpeko's advantages.​

- Morpeko has access to the unique combination of Rapid Spin and Parting Shot, which allows Morpeko to utilize its usable 97 base speed (boosted further when you attain a Rapid Spin or Aura Wheel speed boost) to clear hazards and bounce out of the fray, weakening an opponent when doing so.

- Electric / Dark is a fantastic offensive combination in the OU Meta. Morpeko can compress both STAB coverage into one move, Aura Wheel (which has 110 base power, switches type from Electric to Dark depending on Morpeko's form (which switches once per turn), and gives Morpeko a speed boost when it hits). While base 95 Attack is not that high, you can pull off some impressive feats such as comfortably 2HKOing fully invested Physically Defensive Toxapex thanks to Aura Wheel's higher base power and Life Orb's boosting damage, even with a neutral nature.

Aura Wheel (Electric) Calculations:

252 Atk Life Orb Morpeko Aura Wheel (Electric) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Urshifu-Rapid-Strike: 374-445 (109.6 - 130.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Morpeko Aura Wheel (Electric) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 203-242 (66.7 - 79.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Morpeko Aura Wheel (Electric) vs. 252 HP / 168+ Def Corviknight: 283-335 (70.7 - 83.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Morpeko Aura Wheel (Electric) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Slowking: 452-533 (114.7 - 135.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO (Same damage output for Dark)
252 Atk Life Orb Morpeko Aura Wheel (Electric) vs. 248 HP / 60+ Def Mandibuzz: 312-369 (73.7 - 87.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Morpeko Aura Wheel (Electric) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 257-304 (65.2 - 77.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Same damage output for Dark)

Aura Wheel (Dark) Calculations:

252 Atk Life Orb Morpeko-Hangry Aura Wheel (Dark) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragapult: 478-564 (150.7 - 177.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO (Relevant as you outspeed non-scarf Dragapult at +1 with either Adamant or Jolly natures)
252 Atk Life Orb Morpeko-Hangry Aura Wheel (Dark) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 377-447 (93.3 - 110.6%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Morpeko-Hangry Aura Wheel (Dark) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Slowking-Galar: 455-538 (115.4 - 136.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO​

- Morpeko has base 97 Speed (which is the same as Urshifu-RS), allowing it to hit crucial Speed tiers with a Jolly nature, along with outspeeding most Urshifu-RS variants due to them running Adamant most often. In addition, Morpeko outspeeds every sub-100 base speed Pokemon in OU by default with the exception of Hydreigon (which only has 1 more base speed than Morpeko).

- Morpeko has a wide offensive movepool with additional options depending on your team's specific needs. For example, you have additional STAB in Crunch or Lash Out, but you also have incredible coverage; Stomping Tantrum gets a solid OHKO on Heatran with a little bit of chip damage, Ice Fang will give you pseudo-boltbeam coverage on the physical side (along with giving you a clean OHKO on Garchomp with chip damage), Seed Bomb is also wonderful for Water / Ground types that Electric Aura Wheel can't touch, meaning that Physical pivots like Swampert are not safe switch-ins.

252 Atk Life Orb Morpeko Seed Bomb vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Swampert: 400-473 (99 - 117%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Morpeko Stomping Tantrum vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 328-390 (84.9 - 101%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Morpeko Ice Fang vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Garchomp: 312-369 (87.3 - 103.3%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
-1 252 Atk Life Orb Morpeko Ice Fang vs. 0 HP / 12 Def Landorus-Therian: 213-255 (66.7 - 79.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Because of Intimidate, cleanly OHKOs non-physically defensive variants without it) ​

- On the more niche side of Morpeko's offensive movepool, Fire Fang is a nice option for maiming Kartana, Scizor, and heavily denting Ferrothorn. Psychic Fangs is nasty for Fighting-type or Poison-type Pokemon like who think they can get a free switch-in (although it's rather situational unless you pair it with Tapu Lele), Brick Break has extremely situational use and is mostly outclassed by Fire Fang, but it's worth mentioning here. (Also, this thing gets Outrage, can you believe it? It's not too viable outside of blasting Kyurem into outer space, but it's absolutely hilarious seeing this thing have one of the strongest Dragon-type moves in the game).

252 Atk Life Orb Morpeko Fire Fang vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kartana: 234-281 (90.3 - 108.4%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Morpeko Fire Fang vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Scizor: 296-354 (86.2 - 103.2%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Morpeko Fire Fang vs. 252 HP / 80 Def Ferrothorn: 224-265 (63.6 - 75.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

The Best Damage Calculation of All Time

252 Atk Life Orb Morpeko Outrage vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kyurem: 299-354 (76.4 - 90.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Truly the best option, clearly)

- Morpeko's support movepool alongside access to Rapid Spin and Parting Shot is great as well, with plenty of fantastic options to boost your team's synergy. Super Fang is absolutely fantastic and will allow Morpeko to halve the opposing enemies' health while waiting for Aura Wheel to switch STABs or allow another teammate to jettison in. Protect is wonderful for scouting and can also stall for turns while Morpeko switches Aura Wheel STAB. Fake Out has utility in this regard, allowing Focus Sashes to be broken and switching Aura Wheel STAB. Finally, taunt is wonderful and can be quite useful to prevent setup while your Morpeko keeps racking up speed boosts or launches a Parting Shot.

Morpeko Sets

Now let's look at some sets and what Morpeko can accomplish for your team with each one. Of course, there are quite a few more sets possible than the three I've listed here, but these are the only three sets with which I've had the opportunity to do a good amount of testing.

Offensive Spinner

Morpeko @ Life Orb
Ability: Hunger Switch
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Aura Wheel
- Ice Fang / Seed Bomb / Stomping Tantrum / Fire Fang
- Rapid Spin
- Parting Shot

This set aims to deal out as much damage as possible, clear hazards, and get your own teammates in safely, thanks to the relative cushion provided by Parting Shot. This can ease the load off of certain offensive behemoths (such as Volcarona), meaning that they potentially don't have to run Heavy-Duty Boots and can get in a lot easier and utilize different items. Aura Wheel is combined STAB that boosts your speed. The secondary coverage slot is dependent on your specific needs. Personally, I prefer Ice Fang to handle Landorus-T, Garchomp, and the lot (which are commonly switched in), but depending on your team's specific needs, one of the other options might work better.

Utility Shutdown

Morpeko @ Life Orb
Ability: Hunger Switch
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Aura Wheel
- Taunt
- Super Fang
- Parting Shot

This set entirely relies on shutting down bulkier Pokemon and Stall with Taunt, wearing them down with repeated hits from Aura Wheel (or Super Fang for certain monstrous types), and then clearing out using Parting Shot to cushion a switch-in for a teammate to clean house or set-up themselves.

Offensive Squishy Speed Pivot

Morpeko @ Life Orb
Ability: Hunger Switch
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Aura Wheel
- Stomping Tantrum / Fire Fang / Seed Bomb
- Ice Fang / Fire Fang / Seed Bomb
- Parting Shot

This one entirely forgoes the Rapid Spin niche to focus on Aura Wheel and Parting Shot's utility combined with offensive prowess. I recommend running Stomping Tantrum and Ice Fang in conjunction with Aura Wheel for fantastic coverage, but you can slot in Seed Bomb or Fire Fang somewhere if your team absolutely requires it.

Morpeko Partners:

I'm not going to list all of Morpeko's potential partners here, I'm just going to list three that I've had a lot of success with in the OU Metagame. If I were to list all of the ones I've used, we'd be here for days. If you would like to know about more partners, please let me know and I'd be happy to slot some in dependent on your team's needs.

Tapu Lele or Indeedee (Niche)

In my opinion, one of the best partners Morpeko could have for any set that isn't using Fake Out. Priority is the bane of Morpeko's existence due to Morpeko's limited 58 / 58 / 58 bulk, so having a Pokemon that can automatically set up Psychic Terrain to negate Priority is fantastic. Tapu Lele is overall the better choice for obvious reasons, but Indeedee's Ghost immunity (compared to Tapu Lele's Ghost weakness) is fantastic, so it's worth mentioning here. Tapu Lele's Psychic / Fairy typing is also excellent and makes it a great switch-in for many Pokemon that tend to come in to handle Morpeko.

Landorus-T

Landorus-T is one of OU's best Pokemon and makes an excellent partner for Morpeko thanks to its synergistic Ground / Flying typing, Intimidate to soften Physical blows, and a wide array of options both offensively and defensively. Bulkier Landorus-T sets tend to compliment Morpeko better, as it makes it easier to come in on repeated attacks (with the combination of both Morpeko's Parting Shot's drops and Intimidate's drops, nothing is breaking Landorus-T Physically, and it'll help cushion Landorus-T's more vulnerable Special Defense). You can then set up Stealth Rock, Knock Off an opposing item, U-Turn to continue the momentum and chipping your opponent's team, and much more.

Melmetal

Melmetal needs no introduction; this thing is an absolute monster in everything except for Speed and Special Defense. Morpeko not only helps patch up weaknesses in Melmetal's paltry Special Defense but makes Assault Vest variants almost impossible to break, provided you Parting Shot into Melmetal using your Morpeko.

Conclusion​

Morpeko is the absolute definition of high risk, high reward with a valuable niche, and has an interesting synergy within the OU metagame's staples. It's not easy to slot on a team and can easily be taken down if your prediction game is not on point that day. Still, Morpeko can provide absolutely CRUCIAL opportunities for your teammates given you play it right, and in my view from my nearly two years of testing it, it is more than worthy of consideration for your team.

Morpeko says "Have a great day, everyone!"

​

 

[TailGlowVM]

Excadrill @ Leftovers
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 16 HP / 72 Def / 216 SpD / 208 Spe
Jolly Nature

This Excadrill set serves as one of the very few switch-ins to Arctozolt, and it is EVd specifically to outspeed Modest Kyurem and Tapu Lele and do this:
252 Atk Arctozolt Low Kick (60 BP) vs. 16 HP / 72 Def Excadrill: 148-176 (40.5 - 48.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock, hail damage, and Leftovers recovery
76 SpA Arctozolt Blizzard vs. 16 HP / 212 SpD Excadrill: 127-151 (34.7 - 41.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock, hail damage, and Leftovers recovery
While Arctozolt has been able to EV itself to beat other potential switch-ins like Buzzwole, Excadrill can conveniently survive two Blizzards with Stealth Rock and hail up 99.6% of the time, meaning if it wants to 2HKO it it is forced to run Stomping Tantrum and give up other useful coverage or Substitute.

For Sand Rush sets, a more offensive spread of 16 HP / 180 Atk / 72 Def / 32 SpD / 208 Spe survives two Low Kicks with hail and Stealth Rock damage, as well as two Blizzards from 20 SpA sets under the same conditions.

While Excadrill has had a lot of metagame changes against it, the ability to check hail teams is an extremely rare and valued trait at the moment, and I believe it has a little more potential than we're using it for at the moment - especially given I've seen several suggestions of using stuff like Rotom-H and Mamoswine as Arctozolt checks.

 

[Morkal]

So I'd like to try to start a chain of discussion in OU based on the following three questions since the discussion seems to be on and off inconsistent. Let's see if we can discover some new things in the tier and get some discussion consistency going! I'll also give some answers of my own to start this as well.

Question 1: What is your favorite playstyle in OU currently? Why? Do you have any particular Pokemon you have been slotting on teams you've been building lately?

My Answer: Trick Room with Weather support. I've found that in the era of speed control I like to completely dismantle certain types of teams with a combination of hard-hitting slow mons and hazard wear down, along with enabling certain Pokemon. Banded Fishious Rend Arctovish is a Pokemon I've been using on my Rain / Trick Room hybrid teams that I've been loving lately, as Fishious Rend hits just as hard as Dracovish's did.

Question 2: Are there Pokemon that you feel need more attention in OU, whether they be low in OU usage or in another tier altogether? If so, why?

My Answer: Zapdos-Galar, currently languishing in UU-BL. I cannot understate how much this thing punishes Defoggers thanks to Defiant and utilizes its fantastic STAB combination along with unique movepool options such as Thunderous Kick.

Question 3: What is one thing you love about modern OU, and one thing you can't stand about modern OU?

My Answer: I absolutely love how much breathing room teambuilding has right now, it almost feels like Gen 4's UU tier again, but in OU for Gen 8. There are so many flexible team archetypes you can run and it gives valid niches to all sorts of completely underrated Pokemon. Honestly, if I had to pick one thing that's a bit annoying to me right now, it's Regenerator. Don't get me wrong, I use Toxapex and Tangrowth as much as the next guy, but after a while it gets grating.

 

[OneSmogonCopyer]

So I'd like to try to start a chain of discussion in OU based on the following three questions since the discussion seems to be on and off inconsistent. Let's see if we can discover some new things in the tier and get some discussion consistency going! I'll also give some answers of my own to start this as well.

Question 1: What is your favorite playstyle in OU currently? Why? Do you have any particular Pokemon you have been slotting on teams you've been building lately?

My Answer: Trick Room with Weather support. I've found that in the era of speed control I like to completely dismantle certain types of teams with a combination of hard-hitting slow mons and hazard wear down, along with enabling certain Pokemon. Banded Fishious Rend Arctovish is a Pokemon I've been using on my Rain / Trick Room hybrid teams that I've been loving lately, as Fishious Rend hits just as hard as Dracovish's did.

Question 2: Are there Pokemon that you feel need more attention in OU, whether they be low in OU usage or in another tier altogether? If so, why?

My Answer: Zapdos-Galar, currently languishing in UU-BL. I cannot understate how much this thing punishes Defoggers thanks to Defiant and utilizes its fantastic STAB combination along with unique movepool options such as Thunderous Kick.

Question 3: What is one thing you love about modern OU, and one thing you can't stand about modern OU?

My Answer: I absolutely love how much breathing room teambuilding has right now, it almost feels like Gen 4's UU tier again, but in OU for Gen 8. There are so many flexible team archetypes you can run and it gives valid niches to all sorts of completely underrated Pokemon. Honestly, if I had to pick one thing that's a bit annoying to me right now, it's Regenerator. Don't get me wrong, I use Toxapex and Tangrowth as much as the next guy, but after a while it gets grating.

Sure why not
Q1
Im liking BO to HO playstyles mostly brought upon by one mon, Blacephalon. Have at least 3 mons with slow pivot moves and Blacephalon can deal with everything quite easily. Paired up with smth like Zera or Pult and your team can easily clean everything.
Q2
Maybe Blaziken? I feel like the meta has grown kinder to it. With decreased usage for mons like Slowbro and Slowking and rise in trends like Scizor, Weavile and Blaziken quite likes it
Q3
The fact that stall isnt that prevalent and the only stall that is somewhat viable is Shedinja stall. One thing i hate about OU is boots. Boots bad. it makes pivoting way too safe and flying types arent punished. theres a reason for Stealth rocks existing and flying types being immune to stealth rocks is a mistake

 

[Red Raven]

So I'd like to try to start a chain of discussion in OU based on the following three questions since the discussion seems to be on and off inconsistent. Let's see if we can discover some new things in the tier and get some discussion consistency going! I'll also give some answers of my own to start this as well.

Why not? Sounds like fun

Q1

Balance or bulky offense. In all honesty, I don't know the difference between the two but since neither of them are hyper offense, I like them both. I like them because of them having defensive backbones. I like not having to grind my brain on how to abuse hyper offense mons. I'm not a huge fan of gen eight so I most certainly don't want to stress myself out unnecessarily. As if the rng was annoying enough. So, balance teams

After making a change to my main team a few weeks ago, the one pokemon that I am considering for every team rn is Hippowdon. Hail is a dominant playstyle atm and with Hippo, I can contest the weather which I'm most likely going to win because of its stealth rock resistance while Pelipper, Snowtales and Torkoal are weak to it. Everybody can mess around with their Lando but for me, Hippo is far more useful and is even more obnoxious to kill than Toxapex if you are careful

Garchomp is a close second because it is just a very consistent cleaner. I made a post in the vr rankings that Chomp is one of the few pokemon that can beat every single one of its own checks on its own with minimal support. That ends up giving me a lot of consistency in winning especially when I put in yache berry instead of leftovers to really mess with Weavile. I think it's the best win con in the game because it's not just a win con, it can also act as a wall breaker if the need arises

Q2

Like the above guy said, Blacephalon. It's basically a slower and frailer version of Spectre but much more lethal. Even non defensive resists don't want to eat that many shadow balls

Tapu Lele is the other one. Really, specs stab psychic with modest nature is probably the single most powerful attack in ou that one pokemon can dish out itself. That thing is nuts where even Corviknight is two shotted after stealth rock


Q3


There are two things I love about this gen and I can't exactly chose one among them so I'll just put them in. The new pokemon introduced and the new moves old pokemon got. Dragapult and Galarian Slowking are a lot of fun to use and they have really neat designs. It's just too bad though that Lele did not get expanding force

If there is one thing I hate about this generation, and everybody here already knows it, it is boots. This piece of trash almost single handedly made me not play this generation for an entire month. It's the dumbest thing that was introduced and it greatly reduced the skill ceiling of the game even for a mid rank scrub like me. It reduced the impact of the risk reward stuff that happens in pokemon. Take this for example and I'll use a common gen seven scenario

One player has a hazard stacking team of Garchomp and Greninja. Chomp manages to get rid of the opposing Tornadus early into the round and unless you're running some double defog Charizard team, the opposing player basically lost the only way to remove hazards on his team. The Garchomp player did a good move and it doesn't matter whether the Tornadus player made a mistake or not. As such, Garchomp will be rewarded with uncontested hazards and Tornadus' team will be in a lot of pressure. This should happen because Garchomp made a good move and it is only right that it should be rewarded for it. However, boots greatly reduce this factor as even trash like Dragonite became a legitimate ou mon instead of a bl one. Boots make going through the effort of getting rid of a defogger not that rewarding because the ones who stealth rock should keep in check are not kept in check anymore. It's so stupid that even fucking Shedinja has a legitimate niche. I hate boots. It's dumb and it takes a way a huge part of the reward factor of the game

Now the question is, whose fault is it truly? Boots or hazards? That can be debated but I will blame boots simply for one reason, counter play. Hazard have reliable and spread out counter play in the form of defog, which the only way to stop is to kill your own pokemon and that's not always ideal. Boots counter play is incredibly shaky and inconsistent. Looking at the vr, among the A rank pokemon, the only ones that are almost always gonna lose their boots are Tornadus, Blissey, Zapdos and regular Slowking because of their duties to handle threats. Other boots users like Weavile, Volcarona and Kyurem are very rarely gonna lose their boots because they barely switch into anything at all. That is why I think counter play to boots is inconsistent, because you cannot remove it from everyone who uses it. Gen seven's everybody gets defog made it that hazards will still have their impact but at the same time, not that difficult to remove, which I find is the best balance between the hazard match since stealth rock was introduced





"But dad, how am I gonna use my gmax Charizard without Tornadus?"

Oh fuck boots to hell

 

[BoomFantastic]

So I'd like to try to start a chain of discussion in OU based on the following three questions since the discussion seems to be on and off inconsistent. Let's see if we can discover some new things in the tier and get some discussion consistency going! I'll also give some answers of my own to start this as well.

Question 1: What is your favorite playstyle in OU currently? Why? Do you have any particular Pokemon you have been slotting on teams you've been building lately?

My Answer: Trick Room with Weather support. I've found that in the era of speed control I like to completely dismantle certain types of teams with a combination of hard-hitting slow mons and hazard wear down, along with enabling certain Pokemon. Banded Fishious Rend Arctovish is a Pokemon I've been using on my Rain / Trick Room hybrid teams that I've been loving lately, as Fishious Rend hits just as hard as Dracovish's did.

Question 2: Are there Pokemon that you feel need more attention in OU, whether they be low in OU usage or in another tier altogether? If so, why?

My Answer: Zapdos-Galar, currently languishing in UU-BL. I cannot understate how much this thing punishes Defoggers thanks to Defiant and utilizes its fantastic STAB combination along with unique movepool options such as Thunderous Kick.

Question 3: What is one thing you love about modern OU, and one thing you can't stand about modern OU?

My Answer: I absolutely love how much breathing room teambuilding has right now, it almost feels like Gen 4's UU tier again, but in OU for Gen 8. There are so many flexible team archetypes you can run and it gives valid niches to all sorts of completely underrated Pokemon. Honestly, if I had to pick one thing that's a bit annoying to me right now, it's Regenerator. Don't get me wrong, I use Toxapex and Tangrowth as much as the next guy, but after a while it gets grating.

Q1: I'm primarily enjoying Bulky offense, all Weather offense except Sand and Hyper offense at the moment. I tried dabbling with fatter teams and hard stall, but they just aren't as enjoyable this gen, I feel.

Q2: (You in particular should predict my first answer lol)

: I've been adoring this thing on Hyper offensive / Ghost spam teams. Particularly the Mixed Spell Tag set, with its unique ability to check Lele and prevent a Hawlucha sweep which HO teams greatly appreciate, as well as luring in Shadow Ball answers like Tyranitar and Blissey to immediately smack them with Close Combat. And don't let the lack of Specs fool you, 252+ Spell Tag Shadow Ball actually out-damages Specs Dragapult's Shadow Ball so Tag Aeg gets the job done while having the luxury of switching moves. Seriously, give this a try.

: Modest. Specs. Steam. Eruption. This thing cleaves right through so many common defensive Pokemon, and one thing I adore about it is its synergy with Weather, be it in the form of Steam Eruption's downright nauseating power with Rain and Specs boosting it, or in the form of its perfect partnership with Arctozolt who greatly appreciates it burning Magnezone, Scizor, Ferrothorn and Melmetal to a crisp (with Ox the Fox's Hail being a prime example). Also, between its Fire/Water typing and Water Absorb, it serves as an offensive check to Volcarona and Urshifu-R, so what's not to love!

Q3: I just like the Galar dex in general. So many of the newly-introduced mons are a great deal of fun, and I also love how kind Gen 8 has been to Ice-type Pokemon, between the rise of Weavile and Hail finally establishing itself as a properly threatening offensive force.

If there's something I don't really enjoy, it's that there's almost no way to punish Knock Off over the course of a game, so heavily item-reliant strategies can be a pain to pull off. We tried to remedy that with a certain Clifford the Big Red Boxart Legend... Which wasn't a good idea and failed anyway.

(Also perhaps it's just me, but laddering feels slightly more... stressful this gen? The pace of most games makes you feel like you can't afford a single mistake or moment of inattention, which I find irritating from time to time. It's a little harder to approach battles with a casual attitude.)

 

[Cratersmash]

So I'd like to try to start a chain of discussion in OU based on the following three questions since the discussion seems to be on and off inconsistent. Let's see if we can discover some new things in the tier and get some discussion consistency going! I'll also give some answers of my own to start this as well.

Question 1: What is your favorite playstyle in OU currently? Why? Do you have any particular Pokemon you have been slotting on teams you've been building lately?

My Answer: Trick Room with Weather support. I've found that in the era of speed control I like to completely dismantle certain types of teams with a combination of hard-hitting slow mons and hazard wear down, along with enabling certain Pokemon. Banded Fishious Rend Arctovish is a Pokemon I've been using on my Rain / Trick Room hybrid teams that I've been loving lately, as Fishious Rend hits just as hard as Dracovish's did.

Question 2: Are there Pokemon that you feel need more attention in OU, whether they be low in OU usage or in another tier altogether? If so, why?

My Answer: Zapdos-Galar, currently languishing in UU-BL. I cannot understate how much this thing punishes Defoggers thanks to Defiant and utilizes its fantastic STAB combination along with unique movepool options such as Thunderous Kick.

Question 3: What is one thing you love about modern OU, and one thing you can't stand about modern OU?

My Answer: I absolutely love how much breathing room teambuilding has right now, it almost feels like Gen 4's UU tier again, but in OU for Gen 8. There are so many flexible team archetypes you can run and it gives valid niches to all sorts of completely underrated Pokemon. Honestly, if I had to pick one thing that's a bit annoying to me right now, it's Regenerator. Don't get me wrong, I use Toxapex and Tangrowth as much as the next guy, but after a while it gets grating.

Q1:BO is my favorite archetype by far right now.

Q2:I'm gonna go with a really funky pick here:Cobalion.I specifically use Scarf with Sacred Sword,Iron Head,Stone Edge,and Volt Switch.It always contributes when I use it on a team and I love using it.Scarf Cobalion really catches people off-guard and it has some role compression as a Pivot with its 4* Rock resistance and Knock Deterrent with Justified.

 

[IBZ]

So I'd like to try to start a chain of discussion in OU based on the following three questions since the discussion seems to be on and off inconsistent. Let's see if we can discover some new things in the tier and get some discussion consistency going! I'll also give some answers of my own to start this as well.

Question 1: What is your favorite playstyle in OU currently? Why? Do you have any particular Pokemon you have been slotting on teams you've been building lately?

My Answer: Trick Room with Weather support. I've found that in the era of speed control I like to completely dismantle certain types of teams with a combination of hard-hitting slow mons and hazard wear down, along with enabling certain Pokemon. Banded Fishious Rend Arctovish is a Pokemon I've been using on my Rain / Trick Room hybrid teams that I've been loving lately, as Fishious Rend hits just as hard as Dracovish's did.

Question 2: Are there Pokemon that you feel need more attention in OU, whether they be low in OU usage or in another tier altogether? If so, why?

My Answer: Zapdos-Galar, currently languishing in UU-BL. I cannot understate how much this thing punishes Defoggers thanks to Defiant and utilizes its fantastic STAB combination along with unique movepool options such as Thunderous Kick.

Question 3: What is one thing you love about modern OU, and one thing you can't stand about modern OU?

My Answer: I absolutely love how much breathing room teambuilding has right now, it almost feels like Gen 4's UU tier again, but in OU for Gen 8. There are so many flexible team archetypes you can run and it gives valid niches to all sorts of completely underrated Pokemon. Honestly, if I had to pick one thing that's a bit annoying to me right now, it's Regenerator. Don't get me wrong, I use Toxapex and Tangrowth as much as the next guy, but after a while it gets grating.

1) I feel like BO is really really good, and even though it's just a single archetype, there's so much room for creativity within it. I've been using voltturn recently and it works really well. Plus it's less braindead easy than a few months ago when futureport slowtwins were good, which makes for a more rewarding experience.

2) Rotom-W in UU is criminal. It's no meta defining mon in OU, but it's very good and deserves way more usage. Volt switch, pump, status, pain split, defog and trick are all excellent moves. And its defensive typing and stats make it a solid check to mons like heatran, scizor and urshifu (when it uses surging strikes). And even in games where it's not great defensively, you can always rely on it to get work done through pivoting and status.

3) Nothing feels too broken. Like, sure heatran is a pain to play against, and you can't wall rain volcanion without blissey or slowking. But it's nowhere close to what the tier was like in the past, where we had to play a meta with dracovish or magearna or zygarde or spectrier or... you probably get the point. It's a lot more fun to play in a meta like this.
As for things I don't like... yeah regenerator sucks, but combined with boots it becomes even more annoying. idrc about boots themselves, but I can't deny that they do make regenerator mons even better and even more annoying to deal with. But, not impossible to deal with at least.

Oh and one last thing
If anyone's got some kind of tech to deal with Volcanion, I'd appreciate it if you could share. Bc I'm really not a big fan of blissey and slowking teams.

 

[Morkal]

1) I feel like BO is really really good, and even though it's just a single archetype, there's so much room for creativity within it. I've been using voltturn recently and it works really well. Plus it's less braindead easy than a few months ago when futureport slowtwins were good, which makes for a more rewarding experience.

2) Rotom-W in UU is criminal. It's no meta defining mon in OU, but it's very good and deserves way more usage. Volt switch, pump, status, pain split, defog and trick are all excellent moves. And its defensive typing and stats make it a solid check to mons like heatran, scizor and urshifu (when it uses surging strikes). And even in games where it's not great defensively, you can always rely on it to get work done through pivoting and status.

3) Nothing feels too broken. Like, sure heatran is a pain to play against, and you can't wall rain volcanion without blissey or slowking. But it's nowhere close to what the tier was like in the past, where we had to play a meta with dracovish or magearna or zygarde or spectrier or... you probably get the point. It's a lot more fun to play in a meta like this.
As for things I don't like... yeah regenerator sucks, but combined with boots it becomes even more annoying. idrc about boots themselves, but I can't deny that they do make regenerator mons even better and even more annoying to deal with. But, not impossible to deal with at least.

Oh and one last thing
If anyone's got some kind of tech to deal with Volcanion, I'd appreciate it if you could share. Bc I'm really not a big fan of blissey and slowking teams.

Gastrodon with Storm Drain is a fantastic answer to Volcanion, just come in on a predicted Steam Eruption, get the special attack boost, and proceed to OHKO with +1 STAB Earth Power. For other niche options, Gyarados is shakier because of Steam Eruption's burn chance, but DDance variants can come in and use EQ. Ironically enough, Scarf Volcanion can actually check weakened Volcanion as well. come in on any of the predicted STABS, then outspeed and nuke with Earth Power.

 

[Nebula27]

So I'd like to try to start a chain of discussion in OU based on the following three questions since the discussion seems to be on and off inconsistent.

Alright I'll try.

Q1 I'm pretty basic so balance has been my preference, particularly with a focus on pivot spam. Jumping between scarf Lando, Rotom W and teleport blissey can make for an infuriating time for the opponent. Add a banded Scizor if you want gen 5 OU vibes.

Q2 Someone beat me to Rotom so rather than repeat I'll vouch for Scarf . It's best trait is the immense surprise factor, being able to surprise out speed weavile is amazing. It can also pose issues for scarf Lele, a terrifying meta threat, being able to outspeed and 2HKO with iron head when jolly scarfed, same goes for Kyurem. However it does suffer from a lack of pivot moves.

Q3 This is the meta's best point all generation. Period. The rapid monthly shifts are fascinating, Volcarona's roller coaster usage shows that the current meta is all about adaptability and creativity. Previously using untiered picks was an instant lose but now I've had success with Tentacruel and even whiscash. Now these aren't tournament picks but the ladder has never been this fun IMO. Unfortunately we've yet again seen Melmetal rise which makes me tear my hair out but that's my only complaint.

Thanks for starting this conversation BlackMalachite, super interesting.

 

[Katy]

Underrated Pokémon in the SSOU Metagame and what they're capable of doing currently!

​

great sweeper and underrated threat in the current metagame, it has a good speed tier with 346 at jolly nature, and a great dual stab in close combat and stone edge, can run the so called edgequake coverage as well on dual dance sets (swords dance and rock polish), its sheer power is capable of claiming lives after a +2 due to swords dance. megahorn is great to lure in its toughest threats in slowbro, tangrowth, and slowking. i think this pokemon is currently underrated, as its coverage options are outstanding and it is fast and strong enough to break common pokemon in the metagame. it can easily pressure many threats and even the sturdiest checks in corviknight and landorus-t are getting weakened severely after a boost.

​

is a great pokemon at the moment, as it can check many threats defensively. it can check pokemon such as tapu bulu, rillaboom, urshifu-r, tapu fini, and tapu koko as well as zeraora, due to its great defensive typing and mixed bulk. sets like rocky helmet can work well to eliminate urshifu-r and punish its u-turn attempts, the same goes to tapu koko and rillaboom. rocky helmet also severely weakens other threats such as tapu bulu and rillaboom. with attacks like spore, clear smog, sludge bomb, giga drain, and stomping tantrum it is easily capable of even luring pokemon in,with the case of stomping tantrum it can lure in heatran very well. regenerator on this pokemon is a blessing as well, making it a longterm check to the aforementioned pokemon.

​

you might think, what? but i think it is great at serving as a tapu lele check with its great typing and 100 across the board bulk and good investment in its evs. its versatile, can support with wish, body slam, and protect to fish for paralyzis. with iron head it can go the demonlike strategy, paraflinch-rachi things. we all know what it does and we aren't strangers to this set, as similar sets got run already in oldgen ous. choice scarf also goes a good way with outspeeding current scarfers like tapu lele, tapu fini, and it can also outspeed common threats such as weavile and tornadus-t and can cripple them very easily with locking them into an attack due to trick.

​

rotom-heat is a great check to arctozolt and offensive ninetales-alola and a great hail check in general due to its great typing in electric and fire, which makes it a great switch-in to arctozolts stab-options and coverage. with statusconditions such as toxic and will-o-wisp it is easily capable of crippling down opposing pokemon. it can even go annoying with discharges to spread status + damage onto its foes. it can also serve as a solid check to zeraora, tapu koko, and clefable, with the latter being pressured by its offensive nasty plot version. pain split is a godsent gfor this pokemons rather limited longevity, as pain split helps it keeping itself healthy in a decent measure. it can also annoy corviknight, melmetal, ferrothorn, and kyurem in the teambuilder, as all of these pokemon are decently well checked by the oven.

​

ground + ice-stab is a blessing and one of the best stab distributions in the game, by far, as it has not many switch-ins in this case. with icicle crash, ice shard which gives this pokemon with a rather mediocre speed a priority attack, and earthquake it can hit a lot of pokemon in the metagame. knock off serves it a great tool to remove items such as heavy-duty boots and leftovers. mamoswine can also check arctozolt quite well and it can hit metagame staples such as landorus-t, dragonite, tornadus-t, and heatran for super effective damage, with being able to revengekill dragon dance dragonite due to ice shard after it is being weakened. mamoswine is very underrated and i think and believe people should give this pokemon more tries.

​

last but not least and not forgotten, the lobster, crawdaunt. crawdaunt serves as a great pokemon with potential on trick room teams, with other heavy hitters such as alolan marowak, melmetal, and porygon2. with its outstanding move in crabhammer, the option to boost itself via swords dance and knock off as well as aqua jet it can pick off a good amount of pokemon in the metagame such as landorus-t, dragapult, weavile, and the slow-triplets (slowking, slowbro, and galarian slowking), it is also capable of overwhelming its checks very easily with its teampartners in melmetal and alolan marowak, so they are capable of busting through shared checks. crawdaunt with adaptability and life orb can go an easy way to pull out some OHKOes after a boost. revive it, you won't get disappointed.

with that being said, i hope you had fun reading, and moreover i hope you give these pokemon a try. it is worth it. they all can have different sets for different purposes and they can all serve their niche pretty well. have a great day everyone!

 

[Supersam10001]

Hi :D id like to talk about something called Future Sight Stallbreakers. yeah theres a huge list and a bunch of tourney ppl who make these posts but take it from a [tilting]1700 who's been on break for a month This post is based on you sding on the fs turn for weaville and crawdaunt . Anyway so no.1 Weaville "counters" Pex ?
+2 252 Atk Weavile Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 160-189 (52.6 - 62.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO very much an ohko after fs from normal gking
176 SpA Slowking-Galar Future Sight vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Toxapex: 242-288 (79.6 - 94.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Buzzwole +2 252 Atk Weavile Triple Axel (40 BP) (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 144+ Def Buzzwole: 228-273 (54.5 - 65.3%) -- approx. 2HKO after Leftovers recovery now this dies to fs
Rapid Shifu +2 252 Atk Weavile Triple Axel (40 BP) (3 hits) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Urshifu-Rapid-Strike: 186-219 (54.5 - 64.2%) -- approx. 2HKO again fs koes i wont calculate
Bulkarona ? more like i die anyway
+2 252 Atk Weavile Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Volcarona: 420-495 (112.6 - 132.7%) --
Heatran
+2 252 Atk Weavile Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 285-336 (73.8 - 87%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
176 SpA Slowking-Galar Future Sight vs. 252 HP / 128+ SpD Heatran: 63-75 (16.3 - 19.4%) -- possible 7HKO do the math yourself or /math on ps anyway 73.8+16.3+12=102.1 goodbye sayonara also low kick is an ohko but if you wanna run shard feel free ;)
Melmetal-176 SpA Slowking-Galar Future Sight vs. 0 HP / 244 SpD Melmetal: 85-101 (20.6 - 24.5%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Weavile Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Melmetal: 362-428 (88 - 104.1%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
Ferrothorn
+2 252 Atk Weavile Low Kick (100 BP) vs. 252 HP / 80 Def Ferrothorn: 306-362 (86.9 - 102.8%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO 176 SpA Slowking-Galar Future Sight vs. 252 HP / 176+ SpD Ferrothorn: 57-67 (16.1 - 19%) -- possible 8HKO after Leftovers recovery so hes dead too Now, we have the goated crab i love which btw i will nominate for B+ or A- even once the via rank is open to replies. Anyway it'll probably not change unless other people also show its potential.
So ill talk about counters who dont immeadiatly die after fs and +2 knock/a jet / crabhammer/cc so bye pex
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 304-359 (100 - 118%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Crawdaunt Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 80 Def Ferrothorn: 523-616 (148.5 - 175%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Crawdaunt Close Combat vs. 164 HP / 0 Def Hydreigon: 769-907 (210.1 - 247.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO) 2 252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Tornadus-Therian: 681-803 (188.1 - 221.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO oh wait no1 lives any hits wihtout fs ? [Moistshifu chips to death same with tapu rilla and buluboom] there is the epic zapdos ct but----

252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Crabhammer vs. 248 HP / 220 Def Zapdos: 265-315 (69.1 - 82.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

176 SpA Slowking-Galar Future Sight vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Zapdos: 180-213 (46.9 - 55.6%) -- 74.2% chance to 2HKO Goodbye Friend. so yeah it has 0 counters imo but hey the speed tier makes it bareable. Good evening Sam out :D.

 

[Morkal]

Sun
(Underrated Picks for an Underrated Playstyle)

Disclaimer:
I will only be talking about aspects of Sun that I have personally tested (and tested an extensive amount), so if I missed a particular Pokemon or set that you have used or think is great, please let me know, and I'll look into it!​

Sun has absolutely, no question, been getting less attention than any of the other weather types this generation (even Hail is more talked about these days). So I'd like to show you all some of the wonderful buffs that the sun playstyle has gotten this gen, along with fantastic Sun weather abusers and Pokemon that can function well in this type of weather.

Buffs to Sun:​

- Heavy-Duty Boots are an absolutely incredible item that means you no longer have to worry as much about hazards for your sun setters or Fire-type abusers. For example, Torkoal (being as slow and defensive as it is) no longer takes an instant 25% damage upon switching into Stealth Rocks, nor does it become poisoned upon switching into Toxic Spikes.

- Both sun setters have improved as individual Pokemon.

• Torkoal now has access to the incredible move Body Press, which hits like a truck coming off of its titanic base 140 Defense stat. In addition, its plodding speed is perfect for the weather wars as it means when going against another weather team, if both switch in, you will almost always get Sun up over whatever weather your opponent is using. Torkoal still has access to Lava Plume, Rapid Spin, Stealth Rock, Iron Defense (for Body Press), Will-O-Wisp, Yawn, and other support moves as well.
• Ninetales gained access to the useful Special Ground-type move Scorching Sands, meaning that Pokemon like Heatran and Toxapex (Non-Haze) can no longer switch in freely to Nasty Plot sets, which also means that Ninetales won't be blanked by certain team styles anymore. This coverage is especially nice due to Ninetales already having a wonderful movepool with coverage options like Energy Ball, Shadow Ball, and Dark Pulse. In addition to this, Ninetales still has a wonderful support movepool with options such as Memento, Encore, Toxic, Disable, Roar, along with other support moves additionally. It's still niche and worse than Torkoal for sure, but at the same time, it's now a lot easier and more feasible to run possible double sun setter teams.

- With the comparative dearth of some of Sun's biggest issues from Generation 7 (For example, no more Hidden Power / Z-Moves means an unpredictable off-kilter choice can't bork your strategies), it's a lot easier to get certain Pokemon onto the field and a lot easier to set up using Pokemon you've already gotten out.

- A wide variety of Pokemon in OU (and some niche ones from UUBL) appreciate the boost to their Fire STAB moves from Sun and the weakening of Water attacks, such as Volcarona, Blaziken, Heatran, Blacephalon, and Victini. In addition, Pokemon who commonly use Fire-type coverage moves greatly appreciate this boost, such as Pokemon like Hydreigon, Dragapult, Garchomp, Latios, Latias, and Tornadus-Therian.

- Entire team archetypes can be dismantled by the effects of Sun thanks to the way it affects certain moves and damage calculations. For example, Hurricane and Thunder both have their accuracy nerfed to horrid 50% coin flip, and Flip Turn, Scald, Hydro Pump, etc., have their power reduced by 50%. In addition to this, many powerful moves become viable, which can, in turn, make otherwise unviable Pokemon actually usable in OU, along with giving certain Pokemon some incredible additional coverage and utility.

• Solar Beam is a base 120 power Special Grass-type move that normally requires a turn of set-up to attack; under Sun, it no longer requires the setup turn. Pokemon that get access to this move that utilize their Special Attack stat in OU/UUBL are Heatran, Clefable, Dragapult, Mew, Volcarona, Blacephalon, Latios, and Latias. (There are far more in lower tiers, but we'll get to that).
• Solar Blade is a base 125 power Physical Grass-type move that functions the same way as Solar Beam, where Sun removes the setup turn requirement. Pokemon that get access to this move that utilize their Attack stat in OU/UUBL are Kartana, Rillaboom, and Mew. (There are far more in lower tiers, but we'll get to that).
• Weather Ball is normally a base 50 power Normal-type Special move, but under Sun, it becomes a base 100 Fire-type Special move. This means that certain Pokemon in the tier can get absolutely crucial Sun-boosted coverage if they have access to this move. If you want Pokemon such as Kyurem (who gains access to Weather Ball) to blast through Ferrothorn and Scizor more reliably, you'll heavily want to consider this move.
• Growth is a boosting move that normally only boosts both Attack and Special Attack by one stage, but under Sun, it gains two stages to both Attack and Special Attack. This means that Pokemon, who don't have access to tools like Swords Dance or Nasty Plot, now have a reliable move under Sun to boost their offensive stats quickly.
• Synthesis and Morning Sun gain additional healing power when used under Sun, giving some bulkier Pokemon additional longevity.
• Many Pokemon have specific abilities such as Chlorophyll, Leaf Guard, and Solar Power that are only usable under Sun.

Now that we've talked about some of the boons and advantages that Sun has let us talk about some of the potent options you have available under Sun (along with some very usable niche options).

Sun Options (Just A Few)

Kyurem

Kyurem @ Choice Specs
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Weather Ball
- Ice Beam
- Draco Meteor
- Freeze-Dry / Earth Power​

Kyurem's access to Weather Ball is an absolute boon for it for a multitude of reasons. Not only does it no longer have to deal with the shaky accuracy of Focus Blast, but it deals even better damage to Ferrothorn, Scizor, Melmetal, etc., than Focus Blast does under Sun nailing OHKOs or much more secure 2HKOs where Focus Blast would fail to do so.

252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Weather Ball (100 BP Fire) vs. 252 HP / 176+ SpD Ferrothorn in Sun: 744-876 (211.3 - 248.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 176+ SpD Ferrothorn: 296-350 (84 - 99.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Weather Ball (100 BP Fire) vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Scizor in Sun: 896-1056 (261.2 - 307.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Scizor: 179-211 (52.1 - 61.5%) -- 97.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Focus Blast vs. 128 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Melmetal: 272-320 (61.3 - 72.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Weather Ball (100 BP Fire) vs. 128 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Melmetal in Sun: 340-402 (76.7 - 90.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

This also means that common switch-ins that resist Focus Blast, such as Volcarona, are no longer safe. In addition to this, Dragapult (who could easily switch into Focus Blast due to being immune to it), outspeed Kyurem and usually OHKO it, is now cleanly 2HKO'd meaning that it's no longer a reliable switch-in due to the damage it will take. Finally, fairies such as Clefable don't appreciate taking a shot from Weather Ball either.

252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Volcarona: 103-122 (27.6 - 32.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Weather Ball (100 BP Fire) vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Volcarona in Sun: 258-304 (69.1 - 81.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Weather Ball (100 BP Fire) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Dragapult in Sun: 170-200 (53.6 - 63%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 117-138 (29.6 - 35%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Weather Ball (100 BP Fire) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable in Sun: 293-345 (74.3 - 87.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

The only trade-off is that Heatran and Tyranitar no longer have to be wary unless you're running Earth Power. Ice Beam and Draco Meteor are as brutal as ever; the last slot is dependent on your specific needs. Freeze Dry works wonders against Water types, while Earth Power provides great coverage against Electric, Fire, and Rock types. I personally recommend the latter, as I've found that my other teammates on sun can usually handle the Waters extremely well, but it is there as an option.

Heatran

Heatran @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Magma Storm / Fire Blast
- Solar Beam
- Earth Power
- Flash Cannon / Steel Beam​

Are you absolutely tired of Pokemon like Swampert, Slowbro, Slowking, Urshifu-RS, and Tapu Fini having freedom around your Heatran? Under Sun, not only is your absolutely ludicrous Magma Storm boosted to ridiculous levels (which I recommend due to its trapping abilities, but you could always use Fire Blast), but you now have access to a base 120 power Solar Beam that acts as an absolute nuke to particular threats.

252+ SpA Heatran Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Swampert: 444-524 (109.9 - 129.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Heatran Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 64 SpD Tapu Fini: 218-258 (63.3 - 75%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Heatran Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Slowbro: 344-406 (87.3 - 103%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Heatran Solar Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Urshifu-Rapid-Strike: 434-512 (127.2 - 150.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

In addition to this, Water-type attacks are hampered by Sunlight, effectively removing Heatran's Water-type weakness and allowing it to weather hits that it normally would not be able to handle anywhere near as well, changing many OHKOs and 2HKOS into 3HKOs or higher.

252 Atk Choice Band Urshifu-Rapid-Strike Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Heatran in Sun: 92-110 (28.4 - 34%) -- 0.9% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Tapu Fini Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Heatran in Sun: 134-162 (41.4 - 50.1%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO
0 SpA Slowbro Scald vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Heatran in Sun: 80-96 (24.7 - 29.7%) -- 99.9% chance to 4HKO
0 Atk Swampert Flip Turn vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Heatran in Sun: 66-80 (20.4 - 24.7%) -- guaranteed 5HKO

Earth Power is, of course, for opposing Heatran, Toxapex, Slowking-Galar. The last option gives you additional STAB, while Flash Cannon is more reliable; I've found lately that on Scarf sets specifically, STAB Steel Beam hits like an absolute truck. Let's look at some identical calculations to see the variable and how much it can make a difference, despite the HP Recoil.

252+ SpA Heatran Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 314-372 (79.6 - 94.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Heatran Steel Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 546-644 (138.5 - 163.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Heatran Flash Cannon vs. +1 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 210-248 (53.2 - 62.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Heatran Steel Beam vs. +1 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 366-432 (92.8 - 109.6%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO

This is, of course, a completely optional set variant, but definitely worthy of consideration, and I've found that the additional power even against Neutral targets has been the difference between a win and a loss for me. With a Modest nature and a Choice Scarf, Heatran reaches a respectable 379 Speed, meaning that while it does lose out on outspeeding Jolly Weavile (which won't want to switch into Scarf Heatran anyways as most Scarf Heatran variants run Timid), it crosses particular damage thresholds that Timid can't reach. I'd also like to point out that with a Flash Fire boost + Sun boost, Heatran's STAB Fire attacks will melt almost anything in the tier that isn't opposing Heatran or Flash Fire Pokemon.

252+ SpA Flash Fire Heatran Magma Storm vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Toxapex in Sun: 148-175 (48.6 - 57.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after trapping damage

Blacephalon

Blacephalon @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Mind Blown
- Shadow Ball
- Fire Blast / Flamethrower
- Solar Beam​

Blacephalon functions similarly to Heatran in some aspects but is vastly different in others. Blacephalon's power output is not even in the same league. Mind Blown under Sun is, without a doubt, one of the strongest moves in the game, melting absolutely anything, even resists. Blacephalon utilizes two Fire-type moves frequently, and the results are similar.

252+ SpA Blacephalon Mind Blown vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Toxapex in Sun: 166-196 (54.6 - 64.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Blacephalon Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Toxapex in Sun: 122-144 (40.1 - 47.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Blacephalon's Shadow Ball absolutely wrecks Dragapult, Tapu Lele, Mew, Slowbro, Slowking, and Slowking-Galar. It is a fantastic neutral move to use due to the potential Special defense drop and the relative lack of resists or immune Pokemon utilized in OU. Solar Beam is the same as Heatran but hits a decent amount harder. Blacephalon also has the potential to snowball with Beast Boost and is way faster. So you're probably wondering, "Blacephalon sounds better all-around in the Scarf role; why would I not just use it instead of Heatran?" The answer comes down to raw power and speed versus coverage and defensive utility. Heatran may be slower and not hit quite as hard, but it has better coverage, far better defensive typing, and higher defensive stats. So you have to ask yourself, do I want a slightly weaker and slower scarfer that can actually survive attacks like Urshifu-RS's Aqua Jet comfortably and hit a wider variety of Pokemon, or do I want an absolute nuke that can snowball with the correct prediction that, unfortunately, folds to certain types of attacks.

Leafeon

Leafeon @ Leftovers
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Leaf Blade / Solar Blade
- Knock Off
- Synthesis / Swords Dance
- Yawn / Toxic​

Now you're probably thinking, "BlackMalachite, you've finally gone off your rocker; why would you ever use Leafeon when Zarude exists?" In almost any other case, you're absolutely right. However, Leafeon has access to specific tools that Zarude wishes it could get. While Zarude has access to a bevy of incredible coverage moves, better overall stats, and additional Dark STAB to deal with Ghost-types, Leafeon has access to a wide variety of unique support moves and an ability that Zarude would absolutely kill for.

Somehow, for some reason, Zarude doesn't have access to Knock Off while Leafeon does, meaning that while Leafeon doesn't get STAB on it, it has the option to potentially cripple switch-ins. Leafeon also has access to the potentially infuriating move "Yawn," allowing it to force switches, potentially getting a Swords Dance off, or allowing time for itself to heal with a Sun boosted Synthesis if you're going purely Utility. You could run Toxic instead, but I've found in my testing that the forced switches and potential Sleep that Yawn provides are more useful than Toxic. As for Leafeon's main offensive move, it has access to another incredible STAB move that Zarude does not get, Leaf Blade. Leaf Blade is a base 90 power Grass-type physical move with 100% accuracy and a heightened Critical Hit rate. Zarude has access to Power Whip, which is more powerful and has 85% accuracy and no heightened Critical Hit rate. If Zarude wants a 100% accurate move, it must use the inferior base 80 power Seed Bomb, which has no secondary effect. If Leaf Blade's power is not enough, you could always run Solar Blade, but I've found that Leaf Blade is more reliable. Leafeon also has additional options not listed on the above set, such as Heal Bell, Wish, Roar, Leech Seed, etc.

What helps Leafeon stand out even more is access to Chlorophyll (which Zarude does not have), meaning that with 252 Speed and a neutral nature, Leafeon reaches almost 578 speed under Sun. To understand just how fast this is, the only relevant Pokemon to outspeed Chlorophyll Leafeon is Scarf Dragapult with a POSITIVE Speed nature (If Leafeon runs a positive Speed nature, nothing outspeeds it, including positive Speed Scarf Dragapult). In addition to this, Leafeon's pure Grass typing and base 130 Defense means that despite having lower HP than Zarude, it actually takes U-Turns better thanks to only having a 2x weakness to Bug, instead of Zarude's 4x Weakness. In addition to this, Leafeon also doesn't have critical weaknesses to Fighting and Fairy-type attacks, meaning that Pokemon such as Clefable, Urshifu-RS, Tapu Fini, Tapu Koko, and Tapu Lele cannot nail Leafeon Super Effectively with their STAB moves as they can to Zarude. Finally, while a Leaf Guard set is possible with Leafeon, Zarude completely outclasses that as it also has access to that ability.

Final Thoughts​

Sun has incredible potential in the current metagame, and as of right now, it is relatively unexplored. However, I feel as though once people start catching onto the massive amount of varied, unique options this playstyle brings, it will begin to catch on quite a bit more. I haven't even scratched the surface of the possibilities here, and maybe I'll make more posts about Sun Pokemon in the future, but I'd like to start with this for now. Then, hopefully, more people explore this format!

 

[Gomi]

ayy a post i care about

if you wanna try out building a sun I'll list some options i find decently consistent+pointers

fires

Darmanitan @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flare Blitz
- U-turn
- Earthquake
- Filler but trick or a fire stab that doesn't murder you to click are both good here.
Sun's 2nd best scarfer and an invaluable asset vs Fini Gking type shit. Click blitz and get kills, under sun very little on bulky offense can effectively handle this mon. Never run Adamant, scarf leles have started picking up Timid bc of hail again so its pretty much infeasible.


Victini @ Choice Band/Choice Scarf
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- V-create
- Bolt Strike
- U-turn
- Trick/Brick Break but you never click these so who cares really
u should be able to figure out what CB does. Checks Lele and gets sun boosted Vcreate KOs. IMO Scarf Tini is shit but it does have trick for the Dragonite MU, you should just use scarf Blacephalon though. The only reason i can imagine doing tini instead is that you loathe Lele but just ehh.


Volcanion @ Choice Specs
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 8 HP / 252 SpA / 248 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Weather Ball
- Earth Power
- Steam Eruption

Solid in the rain MU and its solid natural bulk and interesting defensive typing allows it to get in fairly easily and just click a button. Sun has a really hard time fitting solid water resists, so that alone makes this a very cool option


Charizard @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Solar Power
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast/Weather Ball
- Scorching Sands
- Solar Beam
- Roost
Specs is awful now that it competes so heavily with other sun breakers and fails to function effectively vs Heatran+Bulky water without crazy predicts. This sets decent though, think of it as a budget Zard-Y. eventually you just get used to this being such a hard to force out offensive threat. solos balancey builds lacking Blissey more or less. edit: YOU NEED ROCKS WITH THIS. you will fail to 2hko Toxapex without them and it will be very sad.


Volcarona @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid/Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Fire Blast
- Psychic
- Roost or some 3rd attacking move but you dont really need it

I want to preface this mon by saying Volcarona sun is far and away the most matchup reliant variation and banks very heavily on your opponent not knowing what you're doing or just rocking Spdef Lando+Urshi as their Volc counterplay. would not reccomend most of the time, but damn is it fun. If you dont care about scarf lele, then consider Modest because the power increase is actually kind of substantial vs Blissey, allowing you to 2hko it with Fire Blast at +1.


Blacephalon @ Choice Specs/Choice Scarf
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Overheat
- Shadow Ball
- Flamethrower
- Trick

A fucking godsent to sun. Specs is great, solid speed tier and insane power that allows you to absolutely shred anything short of a fatnite, who gets tricked and abused very hard. Scarf though, Scarf is very consistent and its typing, great speed tier, access to trick, and ability to outspeed a large portion of the threats to sun at +1 is invaluable. If you need non Venu speed control, this should be your first thought.

non fires

Xatu @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Night Shade
- Roost
- Teleport
- Defog

Very on paper pokemon tbh but its decent, it facilitates cheesy suns that rely heavily on rocks being off 24/7.


Im editing this on mobile but i forgot to include this mon lol. Good if u wanna run Chomper especially and a decent blanket wall. Horrible defogger and kinda passive tho.


Blissey (F) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Healing Wish
- Teleport
- Soft-Boiled
- filler but usually like twave


Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish
- Protect
- Teleport
- Moonblast
or
Healing wish somewhere

These both do pretty much the same thing, in that they maintain momentum, give you a mandatory Dragapult check (ill touch on this later), and allow you to give your breakers a second wind, which is hugely important on Sun because wow its really shit at staying alive.



Kyurem @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Freeze-Dry
- Earth Power
- Weather Ball
- Roost

stole this directly from ox sun but if youre running a sun with great hazard control (Xatu or double defog), this set absolutely shreds. if they don't have a blissey, they just don't have an answer. Gking is an annoyance but nothing your teammates cant handle. Roost lets it be an incredible asset in the rain MU as well, allowing for consistent sustain and general obnoxiousness.


whatever set you want really but I love NP 2 atks roost with Draco>Dpulse

Sun's defensive excalibur. everything that checks hydreigon is free Venusaur/Fire entry and everything that harasses sun, like Heatran, just gets forced out by Drei. if u used SM sun this is invaluable for pretty much the same reasons.

You might've noticed 3 mons were missing from the previous categories and that's because I figured i'd use this section to list mandatory things and highlight what are more or less sun's must haves.

First up, Heatran

sets

Heatran @ Air Balloon
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest/Timid Nature
- Magma Storm
- Earth Power
- Taunt
- Toxic/Solar Beam/Stealth Rocks/Will-o-Wisp/Flame Charge

Heatran @ Choice Specs/Choice Scarf
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature (Timid if scarf)
IVs: 0 Atk
- Eruption
- Earth Power
- Flash Cannon
- Flamethrower

Heatran @ Charcoal
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest/Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Eruption
- Earth Power
- Taunt/Toxic/Solar Beam
- Magma Storm

The easiest steel for sun to fit by farrr and arguably the best breaker they have access to. This mon's offensive set variation is deadly and near impossible to scout, and its bulk+typing make forcing it out very hard. If your sun is lacking Heatran, restructure it, because this mon puts in wayyy too much work to not run. Air balloon provides a solid Heatran+Chomper check, choice sets are just dirty in how much raw power they possess, and charcoal is (imo) the best Sun Tran, bluffing choiced sets and still packing a ridicolously powerful Eruption, while allowing you to change up ur moves so you aren't useless without the predicts of a psychic.


Torkoal @ Heat Rock
Ability: Drought
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
- Lava Plume
- Rest
- Rapid Spin/Stealth Rocks
- Will-O-Wisp/Toxic/Body Press/Yawn

Best sun setter. Don't run Rocks+Spin, its terrible. This mon explains itself really. Wisp is for crippling Garchomp and DDnite bc you snack a neutral EQ, Toxic is for the rain MU n other random stuff, Body Press snipes Ttar and Heatran, and Yawn is great for giving your sun breakers free turns.



Venusaur @ Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest/Rash Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Growth
- Giga Drain
- Weather Ball
- Earth Power/Earthquake

Sun's Best Chloro mon, it's not even remotely close lol. usually the brunt of ur Urshifu Counterplay, this mon is still a menace in the right MU, basically dismantling a team by itself if it ever Growths. Unfortunately, nowadays its incredibly hard for a Venusaur to safely net a boost and begin cleaving mons apart, and it has alot more checks, most notably Dragonite. Furthermore, Venusaur cannot really viably run Sludge Bomb anymore without losing out on vital ground coverage, meaning a high Health Tapu Lele or Spdef clef can actually check you admirably pre boost and you can't really safely force them out. There's not really anything to explain moveset variation wise, EQ ohkos Gking but makes handling Spdef pex harder. If u do run EQ pack 40 atk evs+Rash nature tho

+2 40 Atk Life Orb Venusaur Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 12 Def Slowking-Galar: 395-465 (100.2 - 118%) -- guaranteed OHKO

to round it out, I figured id list essential things to have on a sun team and general threats to most suns.

The sun checklist

>Torkoal+Venusaur, very likely Heatran too
>Heatran fallback
>offensive ground fallback
>GOOD HAZARD CONTROL (very very important)
>A plan for every relevant Dragon, Dragapult, Dragonite, and Garchomp most importantly. It doesn't matter how flimsy it is, you need one because you cannot offensively or defensively answer these as consistently with ur staples as other weathers.
>Speed control beyond Venusaur
>A playmaker vs Rain (specs Blace is a good one)
>shit every team needs aka a steel a ground blah blah you know how to build. Only exception is stealth rocks are negotiable depending on what ur tryna do

Suns still MU fish afterall

this will be in order of difficulty mostly
DD
you cannot win que for another game. its genuinely just not feasible unless you know the set immediately and preserve torkoal's HP perfectly.
CB
overrides your weather, gets a free kill every time it comes in, checks most of your relevant breakers, and hard checks Venu in a pinch. agony.
spdef
manageable if you tech for it or pack Volcanion/Darm. Still annoying though.
specs
Absolute pains in the ass and incredibly difficult to admirably answer with Sun. The most important thing with all of these is denying them free turns as much as possible. If garchomp gets a free SD, you will lose. If dragonite isn't punished for DDing (trick, wisp, putting it into scarfer range), you will lose. if Dragapult is allowed to come in repeatedly without being chipped for venu, you will lose. if you need an arbitrary sub ranking, then uhhh Dragonite>>Garchomp=Dragapult

a well played specs lele with Psychic is nigh impossible for Sun to answer. even Corviknight sun (which i personally consider kinda bad but whatever) will have to play around this monster very carefully. Counterlead, double aggressively, chip if you can. its relatively slow and there's quite a few sun staples that're decent checks, just don't disrespect this mon.

checks most sun abusers very well and is incredibly difficult to defensively answer for sun. Rocks Heatran specifically is really hard to handle but as long as you can keep pressure up, its absolutely doable. Dragons+your own Heatran will ease this alott.
(these 2 together) etc.
this is basically just anything that can be a huge threat if let in too freely but is generally perfectly winnable as long as you maintain the philosophy of "they aren't a threat if they're dead". Bisharp+Weavile is the biggest problem here since its very awkward to consistently deny both setup and they can tagteam you realllly hard with rocks up, Bisharp is the bigger problem because your only check is usually Torkoal, who is very rocks prone and also yknow how you win by setting sun. if there's a dreigon Bisharp is basically not even a factor though.
3 atks Offensive
depending on ur build these can be really hard to handle but its usually fine.

Edit: sun's notably good MUs

u win these hard tho

these aren't in any particular order

builds with flimsy or non existent fire resists

Stall

steel heavy builds

Hail

rain

fat balance
(these two can depend on your build and take some time to learn though)

 

[Morkal]

ayy a post i care about

if you wanna try out building a sun I'll list some options i find decently consistent+pointers

fires

Darmanitan @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flare Blitz
- U-turn
- Earthquake
- Filler but trick or a fire stab that doesn't murder you to click are both good here.
Sun's 2nd best scarfer and an invaluable asset vs Fini Gking type shit. Click blitz and get kills, under sun very little on bulky offense can effectively handle this mon. Never run Adamant, scarf leles have started picking up Timid bc of hail again so its pretty much infeasible.


Victini @ Choice Band/Choice Scarf
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- V-create
- Bolt Strike
- U-turn
- Trick/Brick Break but you never click these so who cares really
u should be able to figure out what CB does. Checks Lele and gets sun boosted Vcreate KOs. IMO Scarf Tini is shit but it does have trick for the Dragonite MU, you should just use scarf Blacephalon though. The only reason i can imagine doing tini instead is that you loathe Lele but just ehh.


Volcanion @ Choice Specs
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 8 HP / 252 SpA / 248 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Weather Ball
- Earth Power
- Steam Eruption

Solid in the rain MU and its solid natural bulk and interesting defensive typing allows it to get in fairly easily and just click a button. Sun has a really hard time fitting solid water resists, so that alone makes this a very cool option


Charizard @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Solar Power
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast/Weather Ball
- Scorching Sands
- Solar Beam
- Roost
Specs is awful now that it competes so heavily with other sun breakers and fails to function effectively vs Heatran+Bulky water without crazy predicts. This sets decent though, think of it as a budget Zard-Y. eventually you just get used to this being such a hard to force out offensive threat. solos balancey builds lacking Blissey more or less.


Volcarona @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid/Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Fire Blast
- Psychic
- Roost or some 3rd attacking move but you dont really need it

I want to preface this mon by saying Volcarona sun is far and away the most matchup reliant variation and banks very heavily on your opponent not knowing what you're doing or just rocking Spdef Lando+Urshi as their Volc counterplay. would not reccomend most of the time, but damn is it fun. If you dont care about scarf lele, then consider Modest because the power increase is actually kind of substantial vs Blissey, allowing you to 2hko it with Fire Blast at +1.


Blacephalon @ Choice Specs/Choice Scarf
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Overheat
- Shadow Ball
- Flamethrower
- Trick

A fucking godsent to sun. Specs is great, solid speed tier and insane power that allows you to absolutely shred anything short of a fatnite, who gets tricked and abused very hard. Scarf though, Scarf is very consistent and its typing, great speed tier, access to trick, and ability to outspeed a large portion of the threats to sun at +1 is invaluable. If you need non Venu speed control, this should be your first thought.

non fires

Xatu @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Night Shade
- Roost
- Teleport
- Defog

Very on paper pokemon tbh but its decent, it facilitates cheesy suns that rely heavily on rocks being off 24/7.


Blissey (F) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Healing Wish
- Teleport
- Soft-Boiled
- filler but usually like twave


Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish
- Protect
- Teleport
- Moonblast
or
Healing wish somewhere

These both do pretty much the same thing, in that they maintain momentum, give you a mandatory Dragapult check (ill touch on this later), and allow you to give your breakers a second wind, which is hugely important on Sun because wow its really shit at staying alive.



Kyurem @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Freeze-Dry
- Earth Power
- Weather Ball
- Roost

stole this directly from ox sun but if youre running a sun with great hazard control (Xatu or double defog), this set absolutely shreds. if they don't have a blissey, they just don't have an answer. Gking is an annoyance but nothing your teammates cant handle. Roost lets it be an incredible asset in the rain MU as well, allowing for consistent sustain and general obnoxiousness.


whatever set you want really but I love NP 2 atks roost with Draco>Dpulse

Sun's defensive excalibur. everything that checks hydreigon is free Venusaur/Fire entry and everything that harasses sun, like Heatran, just gets forced out by Drei. if u used SM sun this is invaluable for pretty much the same reasons.

You might've noticed 3 mons were missing from the previous categories and that's because I figured i'd use this section to list mandatory things and highlight what are more or less sun's must haves.

First up, Heatran

sets

Heatran @ Air Balloon
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest/Timid Nature
- Magma Storm
- Earth Power
- Taunt
- Toxic/Solar Beam/Stealth Rocks/Will-o-Wisp/Flame Charge

Heatran @ Choice Specs/Choice Scarf
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature (Timid if scarf)
IVs: 0 Atk
- Eruption
- Earth Power
- Flash Cannon
- Flamethrower

Heatran @ Charcoal
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest/Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Eruption
- Earth Power
- Taunt/Toxic/Solar Beam
- Magma Storm

The easiest steel for sun to fit by farrr and arguably the best breaker they have access to. This mon's offensive set variation is deadly and near impossible to scout, and its bulk+typing make forcing it out very hard. If your sun is lacking Heatran, restructure it, because this mon puts in wayyy too much work to not run. Air balloon provides a solid Heatran+Chomper check, choice sets are just dirty in how much raw power they possess, and charcoal is (imo) the best Sun Tran, bluffing choiced sets and still packing a ridicolously powerful Eruption, while allowing you to change up ur moves so you aren't useless without the predicts of a psychic.


Torkoal @ Heat Rock
Ability: Drought
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
- Lava Plume
- Rest
- Rapid Spin/Stealth Rocks
- Will-O-Wisp/Toxic/Body Press/Yawn

Best sun setter. Don't run Rocks+Spin, its terrible. This mon explains itself really. Wisp is for crippling Garchomp and DDnite bc you snack a neutral EQ, Toxic is for the rain MU n other random stuff, Body Press snipes Ttar and Heatran, and Yawn is great for giving your sun breakers free turns.



Venusaur @ Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest/Rash Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Growth
- Giga Drain
- Weather Ball
- Earth Power/Earthquake

Sun's Best Chloro mon, it's not even remotely close lol. usually the brunt of ur Urshifu Counterplay, this mon is still a menace in the right MU, basically dismantling a team by itself if it ever Growths. Unfortunately, nowadays its incredibly hard for a Venusaur to safely net a boost and begin cleaving mons apart, and it has alot more checks, most notably Dragonite. Furthermore, Venusaur cannot really viably run Sludge Bomb anymore without losing out on vital ground coverage, meaning a high Health Tapu Lele or Spdef clef can actually check you admirably pre boost and you can't really safely force them out. There's not really anything to explain moveset variation wise, EQ ohkos Gking but makes handling Spdef pex harder. If u do run EQ pack 40 atk evs+Rash nature tho

to round it out, I figured id list essential things to have on a sun team and general threats to most suns.

The sun checklist

>Torkoal+Venusaur, very likely Heatran too
>Heatran fallback
>offensive ground fallback
>GOOD HAZARD CONTROL (very very important)
>A plan for every relevant Dragon, Dragapult, Dragonite, and Garchomp most importantly. It doesn't matter how flimsy it is, you need one because you cannot offensively or defensively answer these as consistently with ur staples as other weathers.
>Speed control beyond Venusaur
>A playmaker vs Rain (specs Blace is a good one)
>shit every team needs aka a steel a ground blah blah you know how to build. Only exception is stealth rocks are negotiable depending on what ur tryna do

Suns still MU fish afterall

this will be in order of difficulty mostly
DD
you cannot win que for another game. its genuinely just not feasible unless you know the set immediately and preserve torkoal's HP perfectly.
CB
overrides your weather, gets a free kill every time it comes in, checks most of your relevant breakers, and hard checks Venu in a pinch. agony.
spdef
manageable if you tech for it or pack Volcanion/Darm. Still annoying though.
specs
Absolute pains in the ass and incredibly difficult to admirably answer with Sun. The most important thing with all of these is denying them free turns as much as possible. If garchomp gets a free SD, you will lose. If dragonite isn't punished for DDing (trick, wisp, putting it into scarfer range), you will lose. if Dragapult is allowed to come in repeatedly without being chipped for venu, you will lose. if you need an arbitrary sub ranking, then uhhh Dragonite>>Garchomp=Dragapult

a well played specs lele with Psychic is nigh impossible for Sun to answer. even Corviknight sun (which i personally consider kinda bad but whatever) will have to play around this monster very carefully. Counterlead, double aggressively, chip if you can. its relatively slow and there's quite a few sun staples that're decent checks, just don't disrespect this mon.

checks most sun abusers very well and is incredibly difficult to defensively answer for sun. Rocks Heatran specifically is really hard to handle but as long as you can keep pressure up, its absolutely doable. Dragons+your own Heatran will ease this alott.

this is basically just anything that can be a huge threat if let in too freely but is generally perfectly winnable as long as you maintain the philosophy of "they aren't a threat if they're dead". Bisharp is the biggest problem here since its very hard to maintain Torkoal's HP and it has the potential to just win off of one SD. Weaviles a little easier to handle in comparison because of Fire Scarfers but good rocks pressure+a Vile can definitely be really hard.
3 atks Offensive
depending on ur build these can be really hard to handle but its usually fine.

Edit: Figured i'd list sun's notably good MUs here as well

u win these hard tho

these aren't in any particular order

builds with flimsy or non existent fire resists

Stall

steel heavy builds

Hail

rain

fat balance
(these two can depend on your build and take some time to learn though)

Absolutely wonderful post! For some reason, I completely forgot that Heatran learns Eruption, a complete and total brain fart on my end lol. Thank you for expanding on Sun in the areas where my post about it lacked, I'm gonna try out some of the options that you've listed! I especially love your mention of Darmanitan's raw, underappreciated Sheer Force power, along with Volcanion's good matchups with Rain. Also for bringing up Venusaur (which I stupidly forgot to do in my post as well, despite it being basically the best Chlorophyll sweeper x-x).

I would like to follow up on one of the suggestions you made in your thread under the non-fires section, Xatu. Have you considered possible role compression with Espeon? While Espeon doesn't have Defog (which can be worked around), it does have Magic Bounce for the same purpose, along with access to better recovery under Sun (Morning Sun), much better stats, and access to Weather Ball.

Espeon @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 44 HP / 208 Def / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Morning Sun
- Weather Ball
- Dazzling Gleam​

This is a set I've been testing for about a week now, and while it still needs tweaking in the EV department (I'm trying to have it hit certain benchmarks defensively accounting for both if sun is up or is not up), I've had a lot of positive matchups with this set in particular. Having no STAB may seem odd, but I'd rather get the jump on a predicted Hydreigon switch-in and actually be able to dent or clean weakened Tyranitar instead of hitting Fighting-types harder (especially since I have options on my team for Urshifu-RS, G-Slowking, etc). I wish this thing got Moonblast, but Dazzling Gleam is still decent.